Zone1 For Christians who believe in Darwinian evolution, question

[ding]

You're not wrong on that. Many have asked the same question but I've never heard a satisfactory answer.

Perhaps Meriweather can with his exceptions to the meaning of words in the English language.

The answer should have been obvious. It's an allegorical account.

 

[ding]

My question as a youngster was that if God's ways are not our ways, nor His thoughts our thoughts, how could it be said we were in the likeness of God, especially as we had also been told the "right arm of God" was not the same as our right arm.

I believe it's because we are beings that know and create. Man is unlike any other of His creatures in that regard.

 

[Meriweather]

believe it's because we are beings that know and create. Man is unlike any other of His creatures in that regard.

I agree. We are creators, and that may be the best likeness we have with God. It is also why I have little to argue with what we call evolution. Our own creations are not stagnant, and I don't believe God's creation is either. God has never stopped creation, and that, I believe, includes creating us. We have this idea we are His 'end product' and I ponder whether that is the case.

 

[ding]

In his book, "The Phenomenon of Man" Pierre Teilhard de Chardin describes evolution as a process that leads to increasing complexity, culminating in a Christ consciousness. He limited his observations to biological evolution but the same observation can be made about all stages of the evolution of space and time. The complexification of matter increased until it naturally and logically made the leap to the next stage. The last and final stage of evolution of space and time is consciousness. So it seems logical that consciousness would also increase in complexity until it to made the leap to the next stage which Chardin describes as Christ consciousness.

 

[Meriweather]

So we can see that each successive stage of the evolution of space and time complexified until it made the leap to the next stage. And it did so naturally and logically. So Chardin's assumption that consciousness will make the leap to a Christ consciousness is logical because it presumes that consciousness will evolve and complexify and make the leap to the next level because every other stage of the evolution of space and time before it did so.

While I can barely even grasp that concept, it still sounds logical. Thanks.

 

[ding]

While I can barely even grasp that concept, it still sounds logical. Thanks.

I think the error that people make is focusing on biological evolution while ignoring all the other stages of the evolution of space and time which is to say energy and matter. It makes much more sense when biological evolution is placed in the proper context. Just like the Bible makes much more sense when it is placed in the proper context.

The universe was created from nothing or maybe a more accurate way of saying it is there was no time when there was a created thing that preceded the universe and out of which the universe was made. The universe began as a soup of subatomic particles and radiation and naturally and logically complexified into hydrogen and helium. This is what we call the cosmic stage of the evolution of space and time. Hydrogen and helium then naturally and logically complexified into structures like stars and galaxies. This is what we call the stellar stage of the evolution of space and time. From the life cycle of galaxies and stars all of the other elements and compounds were naturally and logically formed. This is what we call the chemical stage of the evolution of space and time. As chemical evolution naturally and logically complexified the leap to biological life was made. This is what we call the biological stage of the evolution of space and time. As life evolved and complexified the leap to consciousness was made. This is what we call the evolution of consciousness stage of the evolution of space and time.

So we can see that each successive stage of the evolution of space and time complexified until it made the leap to the next stage. And it did so naturally and logically. So Chardin's assumption that consciousness will make the leap to a Christ consciousness is logical because it presumes that consciousness will evolve and complexify and make the leap to the next level because every other stage of the evolution of space and time before it did so too.

What do you think, Larsky ?

 

[ding]

It's not a coincidence that the universe popped into existence ~14 billion years ago being hardwired to produce life and intelligence. Beings that know and create were pre-destined to arise through the laws of nature. There are an infinite number of possible universes that will be devoid of life. There is only one possible universe that can produce life and intelligence. Life and intelligence is literally built into the fabric of matter and energy. If the nature of matter and energy were any different than it is, no life would be possible.

What do you think, Toro ?

 

[Toro]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[ding]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Thank you for that intellectual response.

 

[Donald H]

It's not a coincidence that the universe popped into existence ~14 billion years ago being hardwired to produce life and intelligence. Beings that know and create were pre-destined to arise through the laws of nature. There are an infinite number of possible universes that will be devoid of life. There is only one possible universe that can produce life and intelligence. Life and intelligence is literally built into the fabric of matter and energy. If the nature of matter and energy were any different than it is, no life would be possible.

What do you think, Toro ?

Toro can put you down as a believer in the multiverse now.

 

[Donald H]

I believe it's because we are beings that know and create. Man is unlike any other of His creatures in that regard.

That's not true. Even ants know and create.

 

[Donald H]

The answer should have been obvious. It's an allegorical account.

We atheists wish it could be that easy. You've described atheism for me and I suspect that most atheists could accept your position.

Is that your final position or would you like an opportunity to qualify that?

I think that the modern day churches would be considered to be atheistic by Christians of the 19th. century. Many Christians on this board are actually expressing that opinion now, on some parts of the account being presented by you and Meri.

I refer you to the estimate of 80% of Christians in the 19th. century were literal believers in the bibles, as opposed to the estimate of 20-24% today.

 

[ding]

Toro can put you down as a believer in the multiverse now.

Which all - if other universes exist - had a beginning where matter and energy were created before light. Just like it said in Genesis.

 

[ding]

That's not true. Even ants know and create.

No. Nothing like us other than they have a purpose too.

 

[ding]

We atheists wish it could be that easy. You've described atheism for me and I suspect that most atheists could accept your position.

Is that your final position or would you like an opportunity to qualify that?

I think that the modern day churches would be considered to be atheistic by Christians of the 19th. century. Many Christians on this board are actually expressing that opinion now, on some parts of the account being presented by you and Meri.

I refer you to the estimate of 80% of Christians in the 19th. century were literal believers in the bibles, as opposed to the estimate of 20-24% today.

I wish it were that easy for you too, but there is no functional advantage for atheism.

 

[Donald H]

No. Nothing like us other than they have a purpose too.

That's much better!

It's important to not allow you to say that only humans know and create.

 

[Donald H]

I wish it were that easy for you too, but there is no functional advantage for atheism.

No atheist is claiming a functional advantage. We are individuals with nothing in common on what we believe on religion.

Our only common belief is that we don't believe ..............

At least the word 'atheist' needs to be taken literally by Christians.

 

[Donald H]

Which all - if other universes exist -

Your 'if' is more acceptable for a Christian.

had a beginning where matter and energy were created before light. Just like it said in Genesis.

That wasn't in reference to the 'universe' as I understand it from an atheist's POV. It was in reference to the earth.

Correct me if I'm wrong for understanding that part of genesis in a literal sense.

It just may have become necessary to ask you if you mean 'literally speaking' on nearly everything you say now!

 

[Stann]

Does that mean that you believe that God had absolutely no hand in the propagation of millions of species of plant, fungus, and animal life on Earth?

Did God just watch it all unfold for billions of years, and then when humans evolved, decide that they are so sinful that he must take human form to suffer and die for those sins?

Time doesn't exist in the kingdom of Heaven. That's a good starting point. And no one knows GOD's end plan game ( except for the very few who escaped the loss of memory when they came into this world and for most of them it is more of a distant memory or dream.

 

[Clyde 154]

He wasn't arguing that. He said that you should be arguing with Merriweather or others here who believe in both God and evolution. They are the ones you should be directing your words to.

PS: he doesn't claim to be a Christian, he's an atheist.

I have made a valid conclusion: In truth there is no such animal as a Christian who believes in evolution.......you might as well be an atheist, the results will be the same.

I have addressed the topic of this thread many times by firmly stating that its impossible to be both a Christian and support those who teach Creation as an evolutionary process.....according to the words of Christ Jesus.

I am not "arguing" with anyone........I simply present the actual content of the Holy Scriptures by Book, Chapter and Verse, I present the truth that no Christian can deny. Why can no one argue with the truth? The truth is irrefutable. The information that I present has no agenda, its simply the documneted words that read the same for for everyone. Among those words it is WRITTEN.......that a Christian is advised not to go beyond or reason beyound that which is WRITTEN (1 Cor. 4:6).

Peter stated that the words found in the Holy Scriptures are not for "private interpretation" as they have already been interpreted by the prophets to whom the information was revealed by the Holy Spirit of Truth. (2 Peter 1:19-21)

In other words if anyone is not taking their doctrine from the Holy Scriptures.....its impossible to become a member of the one true Christian church/kingdom identified within the passages of the Holy Scriptures.

No where in the Holy Scriptures is there documented support that God created through the theory of evolution. Everything mentioned as being created was created in a fully 100% functional example of that creation and then commanded to reproduce under the laws of physics that God created to regulate these creations.

Adam did not evolve from sea life, and the scriptures clearly state the God created woman from the DNA of man, as God removed one of Adam's ribs to form Eve (Genesis 2:21-25) from the dust of the ground. Man and Woman were created by using the existing elements that are common to this realm called reality....both were created 100% mature and ready to reproduce.