For those that may prefer a Socialist country

[Failzero]

And don't forget the roving Gas Chambers.

Work camps for followers of Islam ( like China )

 

[Vrenn]

Who is it, specifically, that you wish to gas?

It's not me. It's the Fascists that want to register liberals. Much of this comes right from Das Boot's handbook.

 

[Failzero]

It's not me. It's the Fascists that want to register liberals. Much of this comes right from Das Boot's handbook.

I said register Socialists not Firearms ( you said Liberals )

 

[Rigby5]

Fine, except for the people who don't already have a mortgage.

Fine, we will cancel everyone's mortgage debt...oh wait....EXCEPT, what are we going to do with all of the people who don't have a mortgage?!?!? OH MY GOAWD!!!! There is no solution for this conjured-up objection and non-issue, huh genius?

Who in their right mind would extend a mortgage to a new home buyer knowing full well they will never recoup that investment once the socialist government cancels that debt.

Amazing. It's taxing. The socialist state under the authority of the public, would take control of the banks. Another way of saying it is "nationalizing the banks/finance". The banks are publicly owned and run by the government. It's in the interest of the public and hence the government, whose interest is the public good, to make sure everyone is housed. You would just keep your current house and no one would ever take it away from you. You're more unlikely to lose your house in a socialist society that recognizes your right to personal property, including a home, than in a capitalist-run society, that makes you pay a mortgage and property taxes. Don't pay your property taxes under capitalism and see what happens.


Of course, there are all those middle-class people and pensioners who are invested in bank and mortgage equities who now see their investments become worthless.

No one's standard of living would be reduced in a modern, high-tech socialist society. So whatever you had under capitalism, as a high-paid worker, will still be yours and even more so, because it will be yours by right. Now under capitalism, it's yours provided you pay a mortgage or pay your taxes. Those assets are yours provided you're renting yourself to a capitalist and subjecting yourself to exploitation (producing more than what you're being paid), and laboring in a totalitarian workplace (zero democracy at the job).

And everyone involved in the building trades who are now out of work because no one will be building new homes if they can't be financed.

They would be working for the state.

Socialism is literally robbing Peter to pay no one.

Capitalism privatizes the profits and makes the public pay for its losses:

​

Totally and completely false.
Socialism can not change the ownership of anything existing.
All socialism can do is create a new communally owned competition to existing banks.

 

[struth]

"Capitalism' is a general term; it has many forms, so making blanket claims about what it is or isn't is pointless and almost always wrong, The former Soviet Union practiced a form of state capitalism, for instance.

n any case, there has never been any such thing as 'free markets'. That's an ideological myth. Even bandit gangs have rules.

state capitalism is a term socialist made up to try and cover up the failures of socialism

 

[Rigby5]

You lost all credibility after that one. Ther markets are strictly controlled by government. In fact they are basically owned by government.

Not at all true.
Government regulates to ensure fairness, but anyone can start their own business, any time.
I looked into it and its a little complicated, but not at all "strictly government controlled".
Regulated is different than controlled.

 

[Rigby5]

The nature of reality, aka us human beings is that we are not all equal - there are physically strong and weak people, there are smart and dumb people, there are lazy and energetic people and so on. This socialist UTOPIA therefore requires an universal and simplified human being - aka a robot. respectively egalitarianism.

Wrong.
Socialism does not at all try to equalize outcome.
All it does is try to provide equal opportunity, by ensuring there are no illegal monopolies based on capital.

 

[Rigby5]

Every employed person is, in the strictest sense, running a venture.

They are trading their capital, skills and time, for compensation .

They make a choice where, when, and how to invest that capital.

But the problems come when there is unequal access to investment capital.
If a person is poor, they won't be able to afford a college degree, may not even ever qualify for a mortgage, etc., and is at a distinct and unfair disadvantage.
A person with wealth or even just a good enough credit rating can leverage that to get mortgages on rental units that the renters then pay for.
Totally unfair.
The tax regulations are also extremely unfair, benefit landlords, but not owner occupied.

 

[Rigby5]

And Germany from 1934 -1945 had a Socialist Government with a Fascist Dictator

Wrong.
Hitler's Germany was totally ANTI-socialist, and nothing was nationalized or government controlled except the people, through propaganda.
Fascism is a dictatorship of the wealthy elite, so you can see Fascists would be capitalists, not socialists.

 

[Rigby5]

They can be both socialist and fascist. They can even be socialist and Stalinist type nations.

No.
Socialist means communal, collective, and cooperative, which then can not be fascist, which is a dictatorship of the wealthy elite.
Stalinist actually is fascist capitalism.
Nothing under Stalin was collective, communal, or cooperative.

 

[Rigby5]

Just different levels of government control.

Control means the government dictates what you must do, and that is not the same are government regulation, which is intended just to prevent abuses and does no control otherwise.

 

[mudwhistle]

Canada is a Socialist Democracy.

Democrat Socialism is the same as communism.

 

[Failzero]

Wrong.
Hitler's Germany was totally ANTI-socialist, and nothing was nationalized or government controlled except the people, through propaganda.
Fascism is a dictatorship of the wealthy elite, so you can see Fascists would be capitalists, not socialists.

Wrong it was a Socialist Government

 

[Rigby5]

They are socialist nations. But yes, they are also not democratic. Those two concepts are not very comparable

Not really true.
Any true democracy would always be socialist since it would be the least abusive and provide the most.
Whenever you do not have socialism, then you don't really have a democracy at all.
Socialism is not just cheaper and provide more, but is the most natural way for people to coordinate with the member of their community.

 

[pknopp]

Control means the government dictates what you must do, and that is not the same are government regulation, which is intended just to prevent abuses and does no control otherwise.

Were farmers able to sell their products to their customers in China after Trump's actions? No, the government dictated to them they could not.

 

[mudwhistle]

No.
Socialist means communal, collective, and cooperative, which then can not be fascist, which is a dictatorship of the wealthy elite.
Stalinist actually is fascist capitalism.
Nothing under Stalin was collective, communal, or cooperative.

Yes it was. It started out cooperative and then degenerated into totalitarianism.

Remove the guns.
Remove private ownership.
Remove the food stores.
People start dying by the millions.
It's why Germany suffered roughly 800,000 deaths during WWII, but Russia and China suffered 40 million deaths and most of them were civilians.
They seem to like killing their own people.

 

[Vrenn]

I said register Socialists not Firearms ( you said Liberals )

In Cult45speak, liberals are communists which are socialists. Do you know just how stupid that is? And when you deny it that's even dumber.

 

[Rigby5]

Democrat Socialism is the same as communism.

Not at all.
Democratic socialism means you can use pooled tax dollars to create some means of production, OR you can use your own private funds.
That is very different from the theory of communism, which is where all means of production have to be jointly owned.
I say "theory of communism", because no one ever tried communism beyond the tribal level.
It would have been interesting to see what the communists in Russia could have done if Stalin had not killed them all off and implemented capitalism instead.

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong it was a Socialist Government

Wrong
National Socialism was totally and utterly anti-socialist, and Hitler killed or imprisoned all the socialists.
Nothing at all was government owned or controlled.
If you look at all the weapons produced by the National Socialists, they were all produced by private companies that bid on their contracts, like in all other capitalist countries.
There was no product, means of production, or anything government run or owned.
They did socialist PR with the VW, but no VWs were ever produced for individual use.

 

[Kruska]

Work camps for followers of Islam ( like China )

You are extremely ill informed or simply like to spread one-sided bullshit propaganda.

Work-camps in China are for all ethnics - regardless of religion - who engage in violent and murderous actions against other citizens.
They are actually the lucky ones - since murdering someone in China, usually gets you a death penalty.

If you murder someone in the USA - you get a friendly tap on your shoulders?- propably you are advocating for just that.

That Muslims - due to their terrorist tendencies and known murderous actions in Xinjiang and China - are far more subjected to work-camps then any other ethnic or religious group is therefore understood.