France outlaws burkas

[Ravi]

so kalam, why no answer? It's a simple question.

Have your ever hit a woman? Yes or no?

I'm 99.9% sure he answered your question before you dishonest lying asshole.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Sadly, I can not. However I don't think an industrial accident that occurred on a woman's job site can be compared to systematic willful abuse.

There is no evidence of abuse on Kalams part, on the other hand there is evidence you are an asshole , who has no room to talk when it comes to the treatment of women.

NO evidence? Do you know ANYTHING about Islam? Mistreatment of women is SOP.

Other than an industrial accident, I have never hurt a woman.

Falling off a ladder while pissing on a woman and breaking her arm is not an industrial accident, it is evidence of a personality disorder as is your description of it.

I know what Islam says , that doesn't mean a muslim cannot act like a human being in spite of Islam rather than because of it.

 

[Valerie]

I just went to Staples and back and on the way passed a landscape crew wearing bandanas and hats that covered everything but their eyes.

I wonder what landscape crews in France will be able to wear?

From the article I posted earlier:


"
The legislation adopted Tuesday by the Senate, the upper house of the French Parliament, forbids people from concealing their faces in public. It makes no reference to Islam, and includes exceptions for people who need to cover up for work reasons, such as riot police and surgeons."

 

[ConHog]

There is no evidence of abuse on Kalams part, on the other hand there is evidence you are an asshole , who has no room to talk when it comes to the treatment of women.

NO evidence? Do you know ANYTHING about Islam? Mistreatment of women is SOP.

Other than an industrial accident, I have never hurt a woman.

Falling off a ladder while pissing on a woman and breaking her arm is not an industrial accident, it is evidence of a personality disorder as is your description of it.

I know what Islam says , that doesn't mean a muslim cannot act like a human being in spite of Islam rather than because of it.

It isn't an industrial accident? Is stripping an industry? I think it is. So you're contention is that I did it on purpose? That I JUMPED off the ladder on purpose? I look forward to you attempting to prove THAT.

Oh, and I think if Muslims were acting like human beings 9/11 wouldn't be special to us, among other things.

 

[Ravi]

I just went to Staples and back and on the way passed a landscape crew wearing bandanas and hats that covered everything but their eyes.

I wonder what landscape crews in France will be able to wear?

From the article I posted earlier:


"
The legislation adopted Tuesday by the Senate, the upper house of the French Parliament, forbids people from concealing their faces in public. It makes no reference to Islam, and includes exceptions for people who need to cover up for work reasons, such as riot police and surgeons."

They don't need to cover up though, they just want to...

 

[ConHog]

I just went to Staples and back and on the way passed a landscape crew wearing bandanas and hats that covered everything but their eyes.

I wonder what landscape crews in France will be able to wear?

From the article I posted earlier:


"
The legislation adopted Tuesday by the Senate, the upper house of the French Parliament, forbids people from concealing their faces in public. It makes no reference to Islam, and includes exceptions for people who need to cover up for work reasons, such as riot police and surgeons."

They don't need to cover up though, they just want to...

I imagine they can get a medical exemption Raivi, from a dr who says hey working out in the sun all day will fry their unexposed skin....

Anyway, stop pretending like the poor landscape workers are why you care about this.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

NO evidence? Do you know ANYTHING about Islam? Mistreatment of women is SOP.

Other than an industrial accident, I have never hurt a woman.

Falling off a ladder while pissing on a woman and breaking her arm is not an industrial accident, it is evidence of a personality disorder as is your description of it.

I know what Islam says , that doesn't mean a muslim cannot act like a human being in spite of Islam rather than because of it.

It isn't an industrial accident? Is stripping an industry? I think it is. So you're contention is that I did it on purpose? That I JUMPED off the ladder on purpose? I look forward to you attempting to prove THAT.

Oh, and I think if Muslims were acting like human beings 9/11 wouldn't be special to us, among other things.

The events that lead up to you breaking a womens arm, show a desire to hurt and degrade women .That was no accident , that is a personality disorder you are trying to turn into a personality .

9/11 was muslims just acting like believers .People die every time that happens.

 

[rightwinger]

In covering breasts, genitals, etc, we as a society are accepting a social norm, a standard relevant to the society we live in. In France, it has gotten to the point where it has become necessary to encode in law what is socially acceptable within their culture in regards to what can be worn. It's really unfortunate that it had to be taken to this extreme, but when you have a group of people who violate those social norms in a way that starts to threaten that society as a whole (with what they represent), then measures must be taken. Do you think if a bunch of westerners tried to immigrate to Saudi Arabia, with the women wearing scantily clad clothes, it would not be perceived as a threat, an attempted cultural usurpation? That's what this is really about. It's not really about "women's rights."

In America women have the right to wear almost anything they like, but they can't walk around naked.

In France women have the right to wear almost anything they like, but they can't walk around covered head to toe. I think it has to be a reasonable compromise for a society to remain cohesive.

We do not look to the Saudis to be our model for cultural tolerance

Indeed. Imagine if a bunch of people with the level of cultural tolerance of the Saudis immigrated to another country and started trying to intimidate the original population with little trifles one by one such as demanding concessions to their dress code, their laws, their oppressive way of life, all in the name of religious freedom. The burka is probably one of the most symbolic representations of what's transgressing.

How far does cultural tolerance go? Do we tolerated stonings and beheadings in the name of permitting others to express their religious freedom? Do we allow the brainwashed oppression of women with the burka?

I have never seen a woman in a burqa stone or behead someone..

They are just respecting the modesty their culture dictates

 

[ConHog]

Falling off a ladder while pissing on a woman and breaking her arm is not an industrial accident, it is evidence of a personality disorder as is your description of it.

I know what Islam says , that doesn't mean a muslim cannot act like a human being in spite of Islam rather than because of it.

It isn't an industrial accident? Is stripping an industry? I think it is. So you're contention is that I did it on purpose? That I JUMPED off the ladder on purpose? I look forward to you attempting to prove THAT.

Oh, and I think if Muslims were acting like human beings 9/11 wouldn't be special to us, among other things.

The events that lead up to you breaking a womens arm, show a desire to hurt and degrade women .That was no accident , that is a personality disorder you are trying to turn into a personality .

9/11 was muslims just acting like believers .People die every time that happens.

So now getting drunk and paying a woman so that you can consensually do something stupid and then having an accident = 9/11?

You're fucking pathetic.

 

[Si modo]

We do not look to the Saudis to be our model for cultural tolerance

Indeed. Imagine if a bunch of people with the level of cultural tolerance of the Saudis immigrated to another country and started trying to intimidate the original population with little trifles one by one such as demanding concessions to their dress code, their laws, their oppressive way of life, all in the name of religious freedom. The burka is probably one of the most symbolic representations of what's transgressing.

How far does cultural tolerance go? Do we tolerated stonings and beheadings in the name of permitting others to express their religious freedom? Do we allow the brainwashed oppression of women with the burka?

I have never seen a woman in a burqa stone or behead someone..

They are just respecting the modesty their culture dictates

I've never seen a stoning, either. If I did, I'd have to whip out my jammy and flat blast all present.

But, they do happen in Muslim cultures.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It isn't an industrial accident? Is stripping an industry? I think it is. So you're contention is that I did it on purpose? That I JUMPED off the ladder on purpose? I look forward to you attempting to prove THAT.

Oh, and I think if Muslims were acting like human beings 9/11 wouldn't be special to us, among other things.

The events that lead up to you breaking a womens arm, show a desire to hurt and degrade women .That was no accident , that is a personality disorder you are trying to turn into a personality .

9/11 was muslims just acting like believers .People die every time that happens.

So now getting drunk and paying a woman so that you can consensually do something stupid and then having an accident = 9/11?

You're fucking pathetic.

No, they are 2 separate things .

1.Islam.

2Your desire to degrade women.

You have no room to criticize others on their treatment of women.
None.

 

[Hot Wire]

I can understand why they did it...but are they not condemning some women to choosing between their religious beliefs and their ability to leave the house?

The muslims can move to Iran and good riddance to them!

 

[Valerie]

I just went to Staples and back and on the way passed a landscape crew wearing bandanas and hats that covered everything but their eyes.

I wonder what landscape crews in France will be able to wear?

From the article I posted earlier:


"
The legislation adopted Tuesday by the Senate, the upper house of the French Parliament, forbids people from concealing their faces in public. It makes no reference to Islam, and includes exceptions for people who need to cover up for work reasons, such as riot police and surgeons."

They don't need to cover up though, they just want to...

Do you live in France???






After reading more about the arguments made in the French senate it sounds like they were really more concerned with the complete covering of faces in public places, not so much as a public threat that women were hiding bombs or hiding their faces for anything sinister, but that the government authority was wanting to protect these women from oppression under the guise of some religious authority. So the government authority is trying to distinguish itself from the religious authority in order to protect gender equality.

Head-to-toe garments such as the niqab, thought to be worn by just 2,000 women in France, are seen by French critics as an affront to France's democratic values. Some politicians have said that active citizenship requires face-to-face communication. Others say full-body robes are a means of forcing women to be submissive.

Burqa Is Banned in France - WSJ.com

The bill will make France the first European country to ban the veil, beating Belgium where a similar ban is still being debated in the lower house. It will mostly effect France’s five million-strong Muslim population — the largest in Western Europe — of which about 2,000 are thought to wear a veil, niqab or burqa.

Offenders will be fined €150 and repeat offenders forced to take part in citizenship classes. Men who force women to wear a veil could face fines of €30,000 and jail time. However, some argue that the new laws will not be too draconian in practice. According to Le Monde, the bill does not allow police to force a woman wearing the niqab or burqa to remove her veil.

...

French officials were adamant that the ban has nothing to do with religious discrimination and should inspire no terrorism. Al Jazeera noted that the words “woman”, “veil” or “Islam” are not mentioned anywhere in the legislation.


Justice Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said the ban was about “dignity and equality. It is a question of respect for our Republican principles”.

Liberty, equality and sorority? | The Periscope Post

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

and you are basing you facts on what? what you are saying is not a fact. it's a myth like i said.

Not quite.

Wearing the burqa is no easy task

By Sandra Milton Martelozzo
The University of Wollongong

Published May 30, 2010
....

Malalai Joya, an Afghan MP and a devout Muslim, did not pack her burqa when visiting Australia recently.

“It’s not only oppressive, but more difficult to wear than you might think. You have no peripheral vision. And it’s hot and suffocating under there," she said.

....

in Afghanistan they wear burkha not niqab. with a burkha i could understand why she couldn't see but with a niqab you can see. but most women who cover their face wear the niqab. only in Afghanistan is the burka popular.

here is a niqab. notice the slit is open wide enough for peripheral vision

here is a burkha. covers the eyes with net and slit is much more narrow

Hadith - Bukhari 1:148

The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).


The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

*the arabic word here is Jalabeeb (plural of Jalbaab), which is the loose outer garment that covers all a woman's body. It says here to use the Jalabeeb to cover all, and scholars say this means to use it to cover her head (agree upon by all scholars) and her face (agreed by many scholars, not all) and one or both eyes, in order for it to be known that she is a free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm.



Hadith - Bukhari 6:282

'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces."

 

[Ravi]

From the article I posted earlier:


"
The legislation adopted Tuesday by the Senate, the upper house of the French Parliament, forbids people from concealing their faces in public. It makes no reference to Islam, and includes exceptions for people who need to cover up for work reasons, such as riot police and surgeons."

They don't need to cover up though, they just want to...

Do you live in France???






After reading more about the arguments made in the French senate it sounds like they were really more concerned with the complete covering of faces in public places, not so much as a public threat that women were hiding bombs or hiding their faces for anything sinister, but that the government authority was wanting to protect these women from oppression under the guise of some religious authority. So the government authority is trying to distinguish itself from the religious authority in order to protect gender equality.

Head-to-toe garments such as the niqab, thought to be worn by just 2,000 women in France, are seen by French critics as an affront to France's democratic values. Some politicians have said that active citizenship requires face-to-face communication. Others say full-body robes are a means of forcing women to be submissive.

Burqa Is Banned in France - WSJ.com

The bill will make France the first European country to ban the veil, beating Belgium where a similar ban is still being debated in the lower house. It will mostly effect France’s five million-strong Muslim population — the largest in Western Europe — of which about 2,000 are thought to wear a veil, niqab or burqa.

Offenders will be fined €150 and repeat offenders forced to take part in citizenship classes. Men who force women to wear a veil could face fines of €30,000 and jail time. However, some argue that the new laws will not be too draconian in practice. According to Le Monde, the bill does not allow police to force a woman wearing the niqab or burqa to remove her veil.

...

French officials were adamant that the ban has nothing to do with religious discrimination and should inspire no terrorism. Al Jazeera noted that the words “woman”, “veil” or “Islam” are not mentioned anywhere in the legislation.


Justice Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said the ban was about “dignity and equality. It is a question of respect for our Republican principles”.

Liberty, equality and sorority? | The Periscope Post

An affront to France's democratic values leads them to do the undemocratic thing and write a law that forbids women from wearing a religious costume.

 

[Ravi]

It's a shame cornjob had to piss all over this thread...it was an interesting discussion before he chimed in.

And Fitnah is right...you're a disgusting asshole that has no right to question someone else's treatment of women cornjob.

 

[Valerie]

They don't need to cover up though, they just want to...

Do you live in France???






After reading more about the arguments made in the French senate it sounds like they were really more concerned with the complete covering of faces in public places, not so much as a public threat that women were hiding bombs or hiding their faces for anything sinister, but that the government authority was wanting to protect these women from oppression under the guise of some religious authority. So the government authority is trying to distinguish itself from the religious authority in order to protect gender equality.

The bill will make France the first European country to ban the veil, beating Belgium where a similar ban is still being debated in the lower house. It will mostly effect France’s five million-strong Muslim population — the largest in Western Europe — of which about 2,000 are thought to wear a veil, niqab or burqa.

Offenders will be fined €150 and repeat offenders forced to take part in citizenship classes. Men who force women to wear a veil could face fines of €30,000 and jail time. However, some argue that the new laws will not be too draconian in practice. According to Le Monde, the bill does not allow police to force a woman wearing the niqab or burqa to remove her veil.

...

French officials were adamant that the ban has nothing to do with religious discrimination and should inspire no terrorism. Al Jazeera noted that the words “woman”, “veil” or “Islam” are not mentioned anywhere in the legislation.


Justice Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said the ban was about “dignity and equality. It is a question of respect for our Republican principles”.

Liberty, equality and sorority? | The Periscope Post

An affront to France's democratic values leads them to do the undemocratic thing and write a law that forbids women from wearing a religious costume.

Sounds like they're saying citizenship requires face-to-face communication in public places, we won't physically force you to remove your face covering, but we retain the authority to fine you for doing it and send you to citizenship class...And they also establish their government authority supersedes any religious authority of men requiring women to do so.

 

[Ravi]

Sounds like they're saying citizenship requires face-to-face communication in public places, we won't physically force you to remove your face covering, but we retain the authority to fine you for doing it and send you to citizenship class...And they also establish their government authority supersedes any religious authority of men requiring women to do so.

I really can't argue with your last sentence...and yet...why make a law forbidding one group of people from demanding another group of people wear veils? It isn't a real crime, after all. Is it?

 

[Charles_Main]

I just went to Staples and back and on the way passed a landscape crew wearing bandanas and hats that covered everything but their eyes.

I wonder what landscape crews in France will be able to wear?

Where the hell do you live. lol

 

[Liability]

I just went to Staples and back and on the way passed a landscape crew wearing bandanas and hats that covered everything but their eyes.

I wonder what landscape crews in France will be able to wear?

Where the hell do you live. lol

The Staples was next to the bank where the "landscaping crew" was actually a bunch of bank robbers. Ravi wouldn't notice that landscapers rarely carry sawed-off shotguns for gardening.