Free Trader Paul Krugman Admits Failure of Globalization for American Workers: ‘Major Mistake’

[Correll]

The link to the original article was literally the SECOND word in the Breitbart article.


Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Thanks. He does not agree with protectionism:


Does this mean that Trump is right and a trade war would be in the interests of workers hurt by globalization?

No. This answer is based not so much on some rigid commitment to free trade as on the nature of the losses that globalization imposed. The problem with surging globalization wasn’t so much changing demand for labor as the disruption that was caused by some of the most rapid changes in history. Rapid change now appears to be largely behind us: Many indicators suggest that hyperglobalization was a one-time event, and that trade has more or less stabilized relative to world GDP. You can see it leveling off in the first chart above.

As a result, major disruptions now would be more likely to come from an attempt to reverse globalization than from leaving the current trade regime in place. At this point, millions of decisions about where to put plants, and where to move and take jobs, have been made on the assumption that the open world trading system will continue. Making that assumption false, by raising tariffs and forcing a contraction of world trade, would set off a whole new wave of disruption along with a whole new set of winners and losers.

So while the 1990s consensus on the effect of globalization hasn’t stood the test of time, its shortcomings don’t make a case for protectionism now. We might have done things differently if we had known what was coming, but that’s not a good reason to turn back the clock.

Where does he apologize to all the people he poo pooed over the last 30 years?


He admits that they would have done things differently?

PEOPLE FUCKING DIED, BECAUSE OF HIS FUCKING MISTAKES.


And we are supposed to just stay the fucking course? And how about some accountability on the people who are responsible?


He has admitted that he was wrong. He was so sure for so long, and people listened to him, and people died, and now we are supposed to keep listening to him?

FUCKING WHY?

Died? He says they were wrong about how much trade there would be. And this increased inequality. Well you are a republican, you guys love growing inequality. You should be happy. Thank the republican war on unions that made buying foreign goods ok.

Yes, died. Are you going to fucking ask me how economic pain and job losses, means people died? Are you going to be that fucking dishonest?

I assume you are mad about the trump steel tariffs? People are being laid off after his tariffs. US steel stock is down 80%.

And once again, you do not address the question, and just move on to your next attack.


That is not how debates or even conversations go. Willy.


That is how propaganda spouting trolls go. Willy.

 

[Brain357]

Thanks. He does not agree with protectionism:


Does this mean that Trump is right and a trade war would be in the interests of workers hurt by globalization?

No. This answer is based not so much on some rigid commitment to free trade as on the nature of the losses that globalization imposed. The problem with surging globalization wasn’t so much changing demand for labor as the disruption that was caused by some of the most rapid changes in history. Rapid change now appears to be largely behind us: Many indicators suggest that hyperglobalization was a one-time event, and that trade has more or less stabilized relative to world GDP. You can see it leveling off in the first chart above.

As a result, major disruptions now would be more likely to come from an attempt to reverse globalization than from leaving the current trade regime in place. At this point, millions of decisions about where to put plants, and where to move and take jobs, have been made on the assumption that the open world trading system will continue. Making that assumption false, by raising tariffs and forcing a contraction of world trade, would set off a whole new wave of disruption along with a whole new set of winners and losers.

So while the 1990s consensus on the effect of globalization hasn’t stood the test of time, its shortcomings don’t make a case for protectionism now. We might have done things differently if we had known what was coming, but that’s not a good reason to turn back the clock.

Where does he apologize to all the people he poo pooed over the last 30 years?


He admits that they would have done things differently?

PEOPLE FUCKING DIED, BECAUSE OF HIS FUCKING MISTAKES.


And we are supposed to just stay the fucking course? And how about some accountability on the people who are responsible?


He has admitted that he was wrong. He was so sure for so long, and people listened to him, and people died, and now we are supposed to keep listening to him?

FUCKING WHY?

Died? He says they were wrong about how much trade there would be. And this increased inequality. Well you are a republican, you guys love growing inequality. You should be happy. Thank the republican war on unions that made buying foreign goods ok.

Yes, died. Are you going to fucking ask me how economic pain and job losses, means people died? Are you going to be that fucking dishonest?

You are quite the drama queen today. You better go relax. People lose jobs all the time and not for trade reasons.

And once again, you dodge the question, and just move on to your next attack.


That seems to be the core of what you have. Willy.

You are claiming people died. I pointed out that people lose their jobs all the time. If people can't deal with it, it's not the fault of trade. It is capitalism.

 

[Correll]

Where does he apologize to all the people he poo pooed over the last 30 years?


He admits that they would have done things differently?

PEOPLE FUCKING DIED, BECAUSE OF HIS FUCKING MISTAKES.


And we are supposed to just stay the fucking course? And how about some accountability on the people who are responsible?


He has admitted that he was wrong. He was so sure for so long, and people listened to him, and people died, and now we are supposed to keep listening to him?

FUCKING WHY?

Died? He says they were wrong about how much trade there would be. And this increased inequality. Well you are a republican, you guys love growing inequality. You should be happy. Thank the republican war on unions that made buying foreign goods ok.

Yes, died. Are you going to fucking ask me how economic pain and job losses, means people died? Are you going to be that fucking dishonest?

You are quite the drama queen today. You better go relax. People lose jobs all the time and not for trade reasons.

And once again, you dodge the question, and just move on to your next attack.


That seems to be the core of what you have. Willy.

You are claiming people died. I pointed out that people lose their jobs all the time. If people can't deal with it, it's not the fault of trade. It is capitalism.

Because of his mistakes. Funny, how you missed that. Twice. ANd instead just moved on to your next attack.


Wally was human enough to give an "ok" before moving on to his next attack.


You are Willy. Worse than Wally.

 

[Brain357]

Died? He says they were wrong about how much trade there would be. And this increased inequality. Well you are a republican, you guys love growing inequality. You should be happy. Thank the republican war on unions that made buying foreign goods ok.

Yes, died. Are you going to fucking ask me how economic pain and job losses, means people died? Are you going to be that fucking dishonest?

You are quite the drama queen today. You better go relax. People lose jobs all the time and not for trade reasons.

And once again, you dodge the question, and just move on to your next attack.


That seems to be the core of what you have. Willy.

You are claiming people died. I pointed out that people lose their jobs all the time. If people can't deal with it, it's not the fault of trade. It is capitalism.

Because of his mistakes. Funny, how you missed that. Twice. ANd instead just moved on to your next attack.


Wally was human enough to give an "ok" before moving on to his next attack.


You are Willy. Worse than Wally.

No company started trading because of Krugman. They did it to increase profits, it’s capitalism.

 

[Fueri]

Fine, the economic system favors employers over workers.

The economic system as influenced by globalization even more so.

Ours certainly does, and that's because of all the corruption. I don't agree that globalization is bad for workers, certainly Chinese workers have done well with globalization. We would also be doing fine without the corruption. But our corrupt government has allowed non competes, right to work laws, corporations to become monopolies, wage collusion....

Well, maybe, although its a pretty straight line from the availability of cheap labor elswhere to pressure on labor here, with or without corruption.

I think that's a harder sell than you think, look at the unemployment rate. We have plenty of jobs and plenty of wealth. Corruption only thing keeping workers from getting paid.

Corruption isn't new so it doesn't wash for me that suddenly this is the drag on wage growth rate.

All the reasons I give are new. Non compete agreements are a newer thing. Our companies didn’t used to have near monopolies. Right to work laws are a new thing. The corruption didn’t use to be so blatantly against workers.

Globalization is a newer thing also.

The ultimate crony capitalism/corruption as pertaining to this discussion is globalization itself and how it was enacted and sold to the American people. And, again, I supported it at the time.

It was sold to people as something that would create good-paying jobs here, which was an utter falsehood and they knew it.

These other things you mention are factors, yes, but the Big Lie here, that exacerbates much of it and benefits the few at the expense of the many here in the US is globalization. It was supposed to help American workers, create good-paying jobs here, etc., but it has not played out that way at all.

I think we're starting to go in circles here. I know you support globalization and think corruption is the culprit behind suppressing wages here. I see your point and agree it is a contributing factor, but do not agree that it is the larger factor here in the US.

I think the larger forces, such as globalization itself, which has accelerated consolidation of power at the top, and a new global labor market, are having a greater impact on workers here than these other things, although they are a factor also and that globalization has in fact helped enable much of these other factors.

As this gap widens, power further consolidates and those at the top get more leverage over these things and political power to change laws to their advantage and it turns into a vicious cycle, which I think is what we're seeing now.

I've enjoyed the discussion but cannot agree with you on this one.

 

[Brain357]

Ours certainly does, and that's because of all the corruption. I don't agree that globalization is bad for workers, certainly Chinese workers have done well with globalization. We would also be doing fine without the corruption. But our corrupt government has allowed non competes, right to work laws, corporations to become monopolies, wage collusion....

Well, maybe, although its a pretty straight line from the availability of cheap labor elswhere to pressure on labor here, with or without corruption.

I think that's a harder sell than you think, look at the unemployment rate. We have plenty of jobs and plenty of wealth. Corruption only thing keeping workers from getting paid.

Corruption isn't new so it doesn't wash for me that suddenly this is the drag on wage growth rate.

All the reasons I give are new. Non compete agreements are a newer thing. Our companies didn’t used to have near monopolies. Right to work laws are a new thing. The corruption didn’t use to be so blatantly against workers.

Globalization is a newer thing also.

The ultimate crony capitalism/corruption as pertaining to this discussion is globalization itself and how it was enacted and sold to the American people. And, again, I supported it at the time.

It was sold to people as something that would create good-paying jobs here, which was an utter falsehood and they knew it.

These other things you mention are factors, yes, but the Big Lie here, that exacerbates much of it and benefits the few at the expense of the many here in the US is globalization. It was supposed to help American workers, create good-paying jobs here, etc., but it has not played out that way at all.

I think we're starting to go in circles here. I know you support globalization and think corruption is the culprit behind suppressing wages here. I see your point and agree it is a contributing factor, but do not agree that it is the larger factor here in the US.

I think the larger forces, such as globalization itself, which has accelerated consolidation of power at the top, and a new global labor market, are having a greater impact on workers here than these other things, although they are a factor also and that globalization has in fact helped enable much of these other factors.

As this gap widens, power further consolidates and those at the top get more leverage over these things and political power to change laws to their advantage and it turns into a vicious cycle, which I think is what we're seeing now.

I've enjoyed the discussion but cannot agree with you on this one.

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

 

[Fueri]

Well, maybe, although its a pretty straight line from the availability of cheap labor elswhere to pressure on labor here, with or without corruption.

I think that's a harder sell than you think, look at the unemployment rate. We have plenty of jobs and plenty of wealth. Corruption only thing keeping workers from getting paid.

Corruption isn't new so it doesn't wash for me that suddenly this is the drag on wage growth rate.

All the reasons I give are new. Non compete agreements are a newer thing. Our companies didn’t used to have near monopolies. Right to work laws are a new thing. The corruption didn’t use to be so blatantly against workers.

Globalization is a newer thing also.

The ultimate crony capitalism/corruption as pertaining to this discussion is globalization itself and how it was enacted and sold to the American people. And, again, I supported it at the time.

It was sold to people as something that would create good-paying jobs here, which was an utter falsehood and they knew it.

These other things you mention are factors, yes, but the Big Lie here, that exacerbates much of it and benefits the few at the expense of the many here in the US is globalization. It was supposed to help American workers, create good-paying jobs here, etc., but it has not played out that way at all.

I think we're starting to go in circles here. I know you support globalization and think corruption is the culprit behind suppressing wages here. I see your point and agree it is a contributing factor, but do not agree that it is the larger factor here in the US.

I think the larger forces, such as globalization itself, which has accelerated consolidation of power at the top, and a new global labor market, are having a greater impact on workers here than these other things, although they are a factor also and that globalization has in fact helped enable much of these other factors.

As this gap widens, power further consolidates and those at the top get more leverage over these things and political power to change laws to their advantage and it turns into a vicious cycle, which I think is what we're seeing now.

I've enjoyed the discussion but cannot agree with you on this one.

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

 

[Brain357]

I think that's a harder sell than you think, look at the unemployment rate. We have plenty of jobs and plenty of wealth. Corruption only thing keeping workers from getting paid.

Corruption isn't new so it doesn't wash for me that suddenly this is the drag on wage growth rate.

All the reasons I give are new. Non compete agreements are a newer thing. Our companies didn’t used to have near monopolies. Right to work laws are a new thing. The corruption didn’t use to be so blatantly against workers.

Globalization is a newer thing also.

The ultimate crony capitalism/corruption as pertaining to this discussion is globalization itself and how it was enacted and sold to the American people. And, again, I supported it at the time.

It was sold to people as something that would create good-paying jobs here, which was an utter falsehood and they knew it.

These other things you mention are factors, yes, but the Big Lie here, that exacerbates much of it and benefits the few at the expense of the many here in the US is globalization. It was supposed to help American workers, create good-paying jobs here, etc., but it has not played out that way at all.

I think we're starting to go in circles here. I know you support globalization and think corruption is the culprit behind suppressing wages here. I see your point and agree it is a contributing factor, but do not agree that it is the larger factor here in the US.

I think the larger forces, such as globalization itself, which has accelerated consolidation of power at the top, and a new global labor market, are having a greater impact on workers here than these other things, although they are a factor also and that globalization has in fact helped enable much of these other factors.

As this gap widens, power further consolidates and those at the top get more leverage over these things and political power to change laws to their advantage and it turns into a vicious cycle, which I think is what we're seeing now.

I've enjoyed the discussion but cannot agree with you on this one.

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

 

[Fueri]

Corruption isn't new so it doesn't wash for me that suddenly this is the drag on wage growth rate.

All the reasons I give are new. Non compete agreements are a newer thing. Our companies didn’t used to have near monopolies. Right to work laws are a new thing. The corruption didn’t use to be so blatantly against workers.

Globalization is a newer thing also.

The ultimate crony capitalism/corruption as pertaining to this discussion is globalization itself and how it was enacted and sold to the American people. And, again, I supported it at the time.

It was sold to people as something that would create good-paying jobs here, which was an utter falsehood and they knew it.

These other things you mention are factors, yes, but the Big Lie here, that exacerbates much of it and benefits the few at the expense of the many here in the US is globalization. It was supposed to help American workers, create good-paying jobs here, etc., but it has not played out that way at all.

I think we're starting to go in circles here. I know you support globalization and think corruption is the culprit behind suppressing wages here. I see your point and agree it is a contributing factor, but do not agree that it is the larger factor here in the US.

I think the larger forces, such as globalization itself, which has accelerated consolidation of power at the top, and a new global labor market, are having a greater impact on workers here than these other things, although they are a factor also and that globalization has in fact helped enable much of these other factors.

As this gap widens, power further consolidates and those at the top get more leverage over these things and political power to change laws to their advantage and it turns into a vicious cycle, which I think is what we're seeing now.

I've enjoyed the discussion but cannot agree with you on this one.

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

 

[Brain357]

All the reasons I give are new. Non compete agreements are a newer thing. Our companies didn’t used to have near monopolies. Right to work laws are a new thing. The corruption didn’t use to be so blatantly against workers.

Globalization is a newer thing also.

The ultimate crony capitalism/corruption as pertaining to this discussion is globalization itself and how it was enacted and sold to the American people. And, again, I supported it at the time.

It was sold to people as something that would create good-paying jobs here, which was an utter falsehood and they knew it.

These other things you mention are factors, yes, but the Big Lie here, that exacerbates much of it and benefits the few at the expense of the many here in the US is globalization. It was supposed to help American workers, create good-paying jobs here, etc., but it has not played out that way at all.

I think we're starting to go in circles here. I know you support globalization and think corruption is the culprit behind suppressing wages here. I see your point and agree it is a contributing factor, but do not agree that it is the larger factor here in the US.

I think the larger forces, such as globalization itself, which has accelerated consolidation of power at the top, and a new global labor market, are having a greater impact on workers here than these other things, although they are a factor also and that globalization has in fact helped enable much of these other factors.

As this gap widens, power further consolidates and those at the top get more leverage over these things and political power to change laws to their advantage and it turns into a vicious cycle, which I think is what we're seeing now.

I've enjoyed the discussion but cannot agree with you on this one.

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

 

[Fueri]

Globalization is a newer thing also.

The ultimate crony capitalism/corruption as pertaining to this discussion is globalization itself and how it was enacted and sold to the American people. And, again, I supported it at the time.

It was sold to people as something that would create good-paying jobs here, which was an utter falsehood and they knew it.

These other things you mention are factors, yes, but the Big Lie here, that exacerbates much of it and benefits the few at the expense of the many here in the US is globalization. It was supposed to help American workers, create good-paying jobs here, etc., but it has not played out that way at all.

I think we're starting to go in circles here. I know you support globalization and think corruption is the culprit behind suppressing wages here. I see your point and agree it is a contributing factor, but do not agree that it is the larger factor here in the US.

I think the larger forces, such as globalization itself, which has accelerated consolidation of power at the top, and a new global labor market, are having a greater impact on workers here than these other things, although they are a factor also and that globalization has in fact helped enable much of these other factors.

As this gap widens, power further consolidates and those at the top get more leverage over these things and political power to change laws to their advantage and it turns into a vicious cycle, which I think is what we're seeing now.

I've enjoyed the discussion but cannot agree with you on this one.

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

 

[Brain357]

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Ok well I’m offering suggestions that will help. So far we did big steel tariffs and we have layoffs. The China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. I don’t see trade agreements helping. We have lots of wealth and jobs. We need to bring some power back to the worker.

 

[Brain357]

Again, we aren’t going to have good jobs as long as our companies have near monopolies. As long as they are colluding in wages. As long as workers have to sign non compete agreements. As long as we have right to work laws... fix our internal problems and we are fine. Look into tariffs, they lead to bad things. We have strong steel tariffs and layoffs. No negative to what I am saying ,

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Government has a long history of being bad at managing an economy, I think you are wrong if you think they can do a good job of managing trade. Just another thing that will lead to more corruption. Free trade is controlled by markets and can’t be corrupted.

 

[Fueri]

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Ok well I’m offering suggestions that will help. So far we did big steel tariffs and we have layoffs. The China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. I don’t see trade agreements helping. We have lots of wealth and jobs. We need to bring some power back to the worker.

My point is that acceleration is simply consolidating that power and making these changes less likely, not more so.

We need to slow down this train. Not stop it, there's no way to do that, but slow it down so we can ameliorate the impact on our own people.

 

[Fueri]

And, again, globalization is magnifying all/most of that by accelerating consolidation power at the top and further enabling these special interests. I don't disagree on the results of these things, but think globalization is also a huge factor in these very things.

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Government has a long history of being bad at managing an economy, I think you are wrong if you think they can do a good job of managing trade. Just another thing that will lead to more corruption. Free trade is controlled by markets and can’t be corrupted.

I think the Government sucks at it too. The results of these agreements makes that pretty obvious, but they're the ones that can actually negotiate these things, so their involvement is unavoidable.

Corporations are no better and the nexus of these special interests and Government is not a good one for American workers.

 

[Brain357]

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Ok well I’m offering suggestions that will help. So far we did big steel tariffs and we have layoffs. The China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. I don’t see trade agreements helping. We have lots of wealth and jobs. We need to bring some power back to the worker.

My point is that acceleration is simply consolidating that power and making these changes less likely, not more so.

We need to slow down this train. Not stop it, there's no way to do that, but slow it down so we can ameliorate the impact on our own people.

I’d be fine with leaving trade as it is, but trump tariffs are changing things and not for the good.

 

[Brain357]

We can fix the things I’m suggesting. There is no fix for globalization, Trump China tariffs are just moving jobs to other countries. The steel tariffs have led to layoffs. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. We need to remove the barriers that keep the jobs we have low paying. What I’m suggesting has no negatives that I know. Protectionism is full of negatives and a history of failure.

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Government has a long history of being bad at managing an economy, I think you are wrong if you think they can do a good job of managing trade. Just another thing that will lead to more corruption. Free trade is controlled by markets and can’t be corrupted.

I think the Government sucks at it too. The results of these agreements makes that pretty obvious, but they're the ones that can actually negotiate these things, so their involvement is unavoidable.

Corporations are no better and the nexus of these special interests and Government is not a good one for American workers.

So a trade war and agreements are likely to make things worse. The changes I suggest should only make things better.

 

[Fueri]

Maybe, but the barriers also include the impacts of globalization, which I think is the larger impact here.

I haven't said anything you are saying would be negative. I have said, and do believe, however, that globalization itself has entrenched these special interests further and makes changing these things less likely, as doing so does not benefit those with the power. Those few that have greatly benefitted have increased power and are using it.

That's where we disagree. I think globalization has been a net negative for workers here and a boon to those at the top, has accelerated that disparity and that it will continue to be so because it is a system that feeds itself.

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Government has a long history of being bad at managing an economy, I think you are wrong if you think they can do a good job of managing trade. Just another thing that will lead to more corruption. Free trade is controlled by markets and can’t be corrupted.

I think the Government sucks at it too. The results of these agreements makes that pretty obvious, but they're the ones that can actually negotiate these things, so their involvement is unavoidable.

Corporations are no better and the nexus of these special interests and Government is not a good one for American workers.

So a trade war and agreements are likely to make things worse. The changes I suggest should only make things better.

In a perfect world we could do those things. Other nations or special interests right here in the US are not going to make concessions on anything they are not pressured to give up.

 

[Brain357]

I dont see any way out of globalization. Protectionist policy has a long history of failure. We can see lay-offs from our steel tariffs now. So what is it you propose we do?

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Government has a long history of being bad at managing an economy, I think you are wrong if you think they can do a good job of managing trade. Just another thing that will lead to more corruption. Free trade is controlled by markets and can’t be corrupted.

I think the Government sucks at it too. The results of these agreements makes that pretty obvious, but they're the ones that can actually negotiate these things, so their involvement is unavoidable.

Corporations are no better and the nexus of these special interests and Government is not a good one for American workers.

So a trade war and agreements are likely to make things worse. The changes I suggest should only make things better.

In a perfect world we could do those things. Other nations or special interests right here in the US are not going to make concessions on anything they are not pressured to give up.

The workers need to provide the pressure. As long as they are blaming China nothing will happen.

 

[Fueri]

I do not see a way "out" either at this point. The world is different and going back to what it was is impossible.

That doesn't mean we should not be trying to level the playing field with trade negotiations that protect our workers as opposed to just going ahead full bore with increased globalization and expecting a different result this time around.

Government has a long history of being bad at managing an economy, I think you are wrong if you think they can do a good job of managing trade. Just another thing that will lead to more corruption. Free trade is controlled by markets and can’t be corrupted.

I think the Government sucks at it too. The results of these agreements makes that pretty obvious, but they're the ones that can actually negotiate these things, so their involvement is unavoidable.

Corporations are no better and the nexus of these special interests and Government is not a good one for American workers.

So a trade war and agreements are likely to make things worse. The changes I suggest should only make things better.

In a perfect world we could do those things. Other nations or special interests right here in the US are not going to make concessions on anything they are not pressured to give up.

The workers need to provide the pressure. As long as they are blaming China nothing will happen.

They don't have the leverage to do it.