Freedom of Religion? Christian Artists Face Jail Time For Not Making Same-Sex Wedding Invitations

[Papageorgio]

You don't give up being a citizen with rights just because you decide to sell something.

You're not giving up rights. You don't have the right to break the law just because you claim to be under orders from an invisible supernatural being.

If the law is contrary to the concept of free exercise, it shouldn't be there in the first place.

A business is NOT the exercise of a religion. A prayer is. A Sunday sermon is.

Allowing free exercise to the extreme you desire would let Warren Jeffs off the hook for most of his convictions.

I think that an ordained minister could refuse to perform a marriage that is outside their faith. There is no obligation because the decision is not based on race, or sex.

Same sex marriage is now constitutionally protected.

Yes, but if you say no to a couple, sex not mattering and base it on denomination, then you are treating all couples equally.

 

[Papageorgio]

'All White' is a racist belief, not a religious belief...but thanks for playing.

Not true. Alabama Church Holds “Whites-Only” Christian Conference

Yep, the guy is an idiot and is definitely not a Christian.

And you are the authority to define who is or isn't a Christian? What is that definition?

What if, let's say, his church is simply a separatist Christian church that for religious belief differences on the subject of race simply doesn't adhere to the 'rules' of the Christian establishment?

Christians are followers of Christ, Christ was not a racist, so you can figure it out.

So how is it that the Reformation happened, leading to years and years of strife,

and yet now, both Protestants and Catholics are considered Christians?

I don't consider all religions that claim to be Christian as being Christian.

 

[Papageorgio]

`

100% wrong.

Prove it.

Federal, state and local laws require licenses to perform products and services, would all of them be required to be public servants or just those that apply to those licensed to perform a marriage?

A person who chooses to be legally authorized by the state to perform civil marriages has to obey the law.

And they do, nothing in the law requires them to charge for a marriage service, nothing in the laws says that they have to perform marriages. If I choose to perform a marriage for a family member, nothing in the law says they have to perform a marriage for everyone that asks.

Actually almost every public accommodation law has specific exclusions for religious activities- such as a religious marriage ceremony.

Now if a minister also acted as an officiate for completely non-religious marriage ceremonies- as a business- as some for profit wedding chapels do- then he might have to follow PA laws.

That makes sense to me. Thanks!

 

[TheDude]

Under Constitutional equality, I should be able to marry my sister. We're consenting adults and stay out of our bedroom fuckers.

Under Constitutional equality, men should be allowed to marry children. My constitutional rights are violated because I can't marry my aunt.

Under Constitutional equality, young children must be allowed drive cars, never mind vote.

Under Constitutional equality, my rights are violated when my California vote doesn't equal your Alaskan vote. Oh look, our founding fathers fucked up with the 12th amendment.

Love liberal interpretations. I can pull all kinds of shit out of my ass EQUAL to men were intended to marry, have kids, and use the women's bathroom.

So...incest and pedophilia AREN'T illegal in your "Constitutional equality" world?

Not mine, YOURS

Why do you think incest and pedophilia should be legal in his world?

According to the arguments douche bags like you used to justify gay marriage, incest should be legal so long as both participants are over 18.

Let's hear an anti-government uber-libertarian anarchist like yourself tell us why the long arm of the government should be imposing itself to prohibit a brother and sister from entering into a civil union,

aka marriage.

I'm confident I'll enjoy this one.

Like pulling teeth, only without the potential for success. I've heard two responses. The primary being they're more likely to produce children with genetic disorders. There's plenty wrong with this position, mostly.....

1. Marriage and reproduction are supposedly completely separate. Marriage wasn't intended to support the family nor what's necessary to produce one. This is why marriage should not be reserved to male and female.

2. Let me know when our govt. prevents unrelated couples with genetic disorders from marrying.

3. Two sisters in-love cannot reproduce. I imagine they're slender natural blondes, perky breasts and great skin tone. Dark green eyes and bright smiles would be great.

The other point I've heard is this would promote incest. Meanwhile, their position is gay couples cannot increase chances for gay child molestation. More than that, child molestation occurs because you're a freak independent of marriage.

It should be noted, incest is a more common trait in species. Do I support incest? LOL....Hilarious. Not unless they're a couple of slender natural blondes, perky breasts. Never mind that.

Point being there are many parallels between incest and homosexuality for protection under the Constitution etc. Not because I say so, but because liberal nation dictates so. At the end of the day, there's not a single argument for SSM that cannot be applied equally to marriage between close relatives. It's not if it becomes a legal institution, but when.

 

[kaz]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

So the tenets of their faith are suspicion, fear, hatred and untolerance. And they are Christians ya say? What dogmatic, weird and anti-Christian principles type of church is that?

Face it. These people are using Christianity as a baseball bat to enforce their hatred. What a perversion of what people here in Sane World understand as a beautiful, loving, forgiving and inclusive faith.

I know, right? You'd think they are Democrats

 

[bripat9643]

Not mine, YOURS

Why do you think incest and pedophilia should be legal in his world?

According to the arguments douche bags like you used to justify gay marriage, incest should be legal so long as both participants are over 18.

Douchebags like you sure do want to legalize incest over 18 years old.

No I don't, douche bag. I want marriage to be used for its intended purpose: raising healthy, well adjusted children.

So you want to tell my 80 year old uncle who married his 75 year old bride to fuck off- because their marriage is not its intended purpose.

Along with any other couple who never intend to raise children.

I'm not going to waste my time debunking that argument for the 1000th time. The bottom line, anyone who says that raising healthy children isn't the purpose of marriage is obviously full of shit. The fact is too obvious to waste time arguing about.

If that isn't its purpose, then what is its purpose? Can you explain that?

 

[bripat9643]

Not mine, YOURS

Why do you think incest and pedophilia should be legal in his world?

According to the arguments douche bags like you used to justify gay marriage, incest should be legal so long as both participants are over 18.

Douchebags like you sure do want to legalize incest over 18 years old.

No I don't, douche bag. I want marriage to be used for its intended purpose: raising healthy, well adjusted children.

Douchebags like you want the government to decide who can raise 'healthy well adjusted children' - and only allow them to marry- douchebags like you love Big Brother interjecting themselves into a family.

So who will you have forbidden to marry?
Smokers?
Drinkers?
Muslims?
Jews?
Mexicans?
People in wheel chairs?
Democrats?

You're obviously a douche bag who wants to prevent certain people from marrying. You want to prevent a man from marrying his sister and you want to prevent a man from marrying more than one woman. All we're arguing about is who is on your list, not the principle of government deciding who can be married.

 

[bripat9643]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

\\


This is another FAKE news story. Every business in this country has the right to refuse to do business with anyone.

And let's face there are enough business's in this country, including Arizona, that would be more than happy to design & print out wedding invitations for a gay couple.

Pizza denial, wedding cake denial, and invitation denial will never turn a gay person into a straight person.--LOL

Big fat lie. Some bakers were fined $135,000 for not doing business with a gay couple.

End of story.

 

[bripat9643]

[


This is another FAKE news story. Every business in this country has the right to refuse to do business with anyone.

They might have, by some definition, the 'right' to do that,

they just don't have the right to do that without legal consequences.

In other words, they don't have the right to do it.

You're a fucking moron.

 

[bripat9643]

You don't give up being a citizen with rights just because you decide to sell something.

You're not giving up rights. You don't have the right to break the law just because you claim to be under orders from an invisible supernatural being.

If the law is contrary to the concept of free exercise, it shouldn't be there in the first place.

A business is NOT the exercise of a religion. A prayer is. A Sunday sermon is.

Allowing free exercise to the extreme you desire would let Warren Jeffs off the hook for most of his convictions.

I think that an ordained minister could refuse to perform a marriage that is outside their faith. There is no obligation because the decision is not based on race, or sex.

Same sex marriage is now constitutionally protected.

When did the Constitution change?

 

[martybegan]

Not your call to make, you judgmental pile of shit.

What's more judgmental than deciding that gays are not worthy of associating with you as equals?

Just as judgmental as a bunch of whiny anti-trumpers not wanting to associate with anyone who even considers Trump not the anti-christ.

The difference is you want to ruin people who just think differently than you.

Where are Trump supporters being denied goods and services?

This part of the discussion is about being judgmental, pay attention.

I said,
What's more judgmental than deciding that gays are not worthy of associating with you as equals?

progressives deciding that some people are not worthy of associating as equals because they voted for Trump.

 

[martybegan]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

So the tenets of their faith are suspicion, fear, hatred and untolerance. And they are Christians ya say? What dogmatic, weird and anti-Christian principles type of church is that?

Face it. These people are using Christianity as a baseball bat to enforce their hatred. What a perversion of what people here in Sane World understand as a beautiful, loving, forgiving and inclusive faith.

No, the tenets of their faith is that they disapprove of homosexuality and would prefer not to be a part of a ceremony that celebrates a union involving homosexuality.

Hate the sin, not the sinner doesn't mean you have to condone the sinner.

 

[martybegan]

Ordained Ministers that do not charge for their wedding services can refuse to perform weddings to any couple they choose. If they start charging for their services then they fall under public accommodation laws because money is being exchanged.

The same holds true with services or products being supplied to the public.

So a Catholic Priest can be forced to marry a gay couple?

Churches take fees for marriages all the time.

Again, a public accommodation is not "every time money changes hands"

The enter into commercial contract, they are subject to the laws of the state.

Laws that violate constitutional protections are not valid.

 

[martybegan]

You don't give up being a citizen with rights just because you decide to sell something.

You're not giving up rights. You don't have the right to break the law just because you claim to be under orders from an invisible supernatural being.

If the law is contrary to the concept of free exercise, it shouldn't be there in the first place.

A business is NOT the exercise of a religion. A prayer is. A Sunday sermon is.

Allowing free exercise to the extreme you desire would let Warren Jeffs off the hook for most of his convictions.

I think that an ordained minister could refuse to perform a marriage that is outside their faith. There is no obligation because the decision is not based on race, or sex.

Same sex marriage is now constitutionally protected.

No, it is protected at the whim of 5 of 9 un-elected lawyers, just like Roe is.

 

[martybegan]

Baloney

Oh....the Church of Human Sacrifice is allowed to do human sacrifices? Churches are allowed to ignore fire codes?

Human sacrifice implies another separate crime.

And there is a great example of fire code being violated for religious purposes. go to any Hindu temple and they use open flames for many ceremonies, indoors. Flames of that size are usually limited to candles or fireplaces by fire code, yet they are not stopped from performing the rituals.

And I know this because my wife is Hindu, and we chose the Temple because we could do the fire part of the ceremony, which we couldn't have done in say a hotel's private rooms.

Do you think that Hindu temples are exempt from fire codes? Really?

Inspectors might decide to turn a blind eye to some violations, but churches, temples, etc are all subject to fire codes, safety codes, and building codes.

So why doesn't the FDNY fine them when they have a Hindu Ceremony? Plenty of fire at one of those.

Do you know that they are violating the fire code?

Every other place we asked to have the ceremony said no indoor fire. The Temple didn't even blink when we asked for the fire part.

 

[martybegan]

Selling a commercial product for money is not a religious rite, period.

Therefore, this issue has NOTHING to do with the First Amendment. No one's exercising of their religion is being interfered with.

Again, the 1st amendment protects free exercise, not just rites, or churches, or clergy

Get the fucking stuffing out of your brain.

Then tell us why Warren Jeffs is in prison.

because its still illegal to propagate sex between a minor and an adult.

So you finally acknowledge that religion cannot be used as a free ticket to break the law.

I never said it was a free ticket, my entire position is that is has to be considered when determining if someone has the right to refuse providing a certain good or service.

The current standard, of "fuck religious people, bake the cake, peasant" is wrong and unconstitutional.

 

[Nosmo King]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

So the tenets of their faith are suspicion, fear, hatred and untolerance. And they are Christians ya say? What dogmatic, weird and anti-Christian principles type of church is that?

Face it. These people are using Christianity as a baseball bat to enforce their hatred. What a perversion of what people here in Sane World understand as a beautiful, loving, forgiving and inclusive faith.

No, the tenets of their faith is that they disapprove of homosexuality and would prefer not to be a part of a ceremony that celebrates a union involving homosexuality.

Hate the sin, not the sinner doesn't mean you have to condone the sinner.

When they bake a cake or print an invitation or take a photograph, are they also supposed to participate in the wedding ceremony? Do they officiate the ceremony, give the bride away, STEP on a small glass goblet, take vows? Are they supposed to bring a toaster oven wrapped in silver paper to the reception? Is there a baker/bride dance, do they propose a special weddI got vendor toast?

Nope! They are not part of the ceremony. They are just masquerading as Christians so they can foment hatred.

And is their immortal soul imperiled? Why don't these faux Christians adhere to all of God's commandments? Are they nearly as righteous and pious as they can possibly be? Which Christians are? The Amish? Pentecostals? Snake handliers? Coptics?

Nope! These folks are merely good old fashioned homophobes under the guise of Christianity.

 

[martybegan]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

So the tenets of their faith are suspicion, fear, hatred and untolerance. And they are Christians ya say? What dogmatic, weird and anti-Christian principles type of church is that?

Face it. These people are using Christianity as a baseball bat to enforce their hatred. What a perversion of what people here in Sane World understand as a beautiful, loving, forgiving and inclusive faith.

No, the tenets of their faith is that they disapprove of homosexuality and would prefer not to be a part of a ceremony that celebrates a union involving homosexuality.

Hate the sin, not the sinner doesn't mean you have to condone the sinner.

When they bake a cake or print an invitation or take a photograph, are they also supposed to participate in the wedding ceremony? Do they officiate the ceremony, give the bride away, STEP on a small glass goblet, take vows? Are they supposed to bring a toaster oven wrapped in silver paper to the reception? Is there a baker/bride dance, do they propose a special weddI got vendor toast?

Nope! They are not part of the ceremony. They are just masquerading as Christians so they can foment hatred.

And is their immortal soul imperiled? Why don't these faux Christians adhere to all of God's commandments? Are they nearly as righteous and pious as they can possibly be? Which Christians are? The Amish? Pentecostals? Snake handliers? Coptics?

Nope! These folks are merely good old fashioned homophobes under the guise of Christianity.

They are providing a good or service for something celebrating a concept they find morally wrong.

And all of the rest of your statement is meaningless, because it isn't your place to judge, and it's definitely not government's place to judge.

 

[Nosmo King]

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

So the tenets of their faith are suspicion, fear, hatred and untolerance. And they are Christians ya say? What dogmatic, weird and anti-Christian principles type of church is that?

Face it. These people are using Christianity as a baseball bat to enforce their hatred. What a perversion of what people here in Sane World understand as a beautiful, loving, forgiving and inclusive faith.

No, the tenets of their faith is that they disapprove of homosexuality and would prefer not to be a part of a ceremony that celebrates a union involving homosexuality.

Hate the sin, not the sinner doesn't mean you have to condone the sinner.

When they bake a cake or print an invitation or take a photograph, are they also supposed to participate in the wedding ceremony? Do they officiate the ceremony, give the bride away, STEP on a small glass goblet, take vows? Are they supposed to bring a toaster oven wrapped in silver paper to the reception? Is there a baker/bride dance, do they propose a special weddI got vendor toast?

Nope! They are not part of the ceremony. They are just masquerading as Christians so they can foment hatred.

And is their immortal soul imperiled? Why don't these faux Christians adhere to all of God's commandments? Are they nearly as righteous and pious as they can possibly be? Which Christians are? The Amish? Pentecostals? Snake handliers? Coptics?

Nope! These folks are merely good old fashioned homophobes under the guise of Christianity.

They are providing a good or service for something celebrating a concept they find morally wrong.

And all of the rest of your statement is meaningless, because it isn't your place to judge, and it's definitely not government's place to judge.

As long as their businesses are licensed, they are subject to all the commerce laws. That makes it the government's determination.

Do these vendors morally vet all their clients? What if a Mafia Princess comes in their shop? The money the vendors receive in payment probably was made b immoral means. But, it's green, just like the money from their homosexual clients. Morality be damned, unless you're a bigot.

 

[martybegan]

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

So the tenets of their faith are suspicion, fear, hatred and untolerance. And they are Christians ya say? What dogmatic, weird and anti-Christian principles type of church is that?

Face it. These people are using Christianity as a baseball bat to enforce their hatred. What a perversion of what people here in Sane World understand as a beautiful, loving, forgiving and inclusive faith.

No, the tenets of their faith is that they disapprove of homosexuality and would prefer not to be a part of a ceremony that celebrates a union involving homosexuality.

Hate the sin, not the sinner doesn't mean you have to condone the sinner.

When they bake a cake or print an invitation or take a photograph, are they also supposed to participate in the wedding ceremony? Do they officiate the ceremony, give the bride away, STEP on a small glass goblet, take vows? Are they supposed to bring a toaster oven wrapped in silver paper to the reception? Is there a baker/bride dance, do they propose a special weddI got vendor toast?

Nope! They are not part of the ceremony. They are just masquerading as Christians so they can foment hatred.

And is their immortal soul imperiled? Why don't these faux Christians adhere to all of God's commandments? Are they nearly as righteous and pious as they can possibly be? Which Christians are? The Amish? Pentecostals? Snake handliers? Coptics?

Nope! These folks are merely good old fashioned homophobes under the guise of Christianity.

They are providing a good or service for something celebrating a concept they find morally wrong.

And all of the rest of your statement is meaningless, because it isn't your place to judge, and it's definitely not government's place to judge.

As long as their businesses are licensed, they are subject to all the commerce laws. That makes it the government's determination.

Do these vendors morally vet all their clients? What if a Mafia Princess comes in their shop? The money the vendors receive in payment probably was made b immoral means. But, it's green, just like the money from their homosexual clients. Morality be damned, unless you're a bigot.

Arguing the how when the discussion is about the why is a dodge, and not a very good one.

And you don't get to apply a standard to a person's morals in this country, and government only does so when there is a compelling interest, and even then they have to apply the least stringent remedy.

and bigot is another word that has lost all meaning. All the major monotheistic religions find homosexuality to be sinful, so every person who thinks so is a bigot?