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exactly right
I for one don't know why the state recognizes a marriage performed in a church as legal anyway.
Why are we vesting powers of the state in clergymen at all?
There's no reason a clergyman can't be licensed to perform marriages. However, he then becomes a civil servant and should be subject to all laws pertaining to the exercise of that position.
100% wrong.
Prove it.
Federal, state and local laws require licenses to perform products and services, would all of them be required to be public servants or just those that apply to those licensed to perform a marriage?
A person who chooses to be legally authorized by the state to perform civil marriages has to obey the law.
So...incest and pedophilia AREN'T illegal in your "Constitutional equality" world?
Not mine, YOURS
Why do you think incest and pedophilia should be legal in his world?
According to the arguments douche bags like you used to justify gay marriage, incest should be legal so long as both participants are over 18.
Douchebags like you sure do want to legalize incest over 18 years old.
No I don't, douche bag. I want marriage to be used for its intended purpose: raising healthy, well adjusted children.
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There's no reason a clergyman can't be licensed to perform marriages. However, he then becomes a civil servant and should be subject to all laws pertaining to the exercise of that position.
100% wrong.
Prove it.
Federal, state and local laws require licenses to perform products and services, would all of them be required to be public servants or just those that apply to those licensed to perform a marriage?
A person who chooses to be legally authorized by the state to perform civil marriages has to obey the law.
And they do, nothing in the law requires them to charge for a marriage service, nothing in the laws says that they have to perform marriages. If I choose to perform a marriage for a family member, nothing in the law says they have to perform a marriage for everyone that asks.
'All White' is a racist belief, not a religious belief...but thanks for playing.You want an all white church, you can probably have it. What you can't have is an all white place of business.
Not true. Alabama Church Holds “Whites-Only” Christian Conference
Yep, the guy is an idiot and is definitely not a Christian.
And you are the authority to define who is or isn't a Christian? What is that definition?
What if, let's say, his church is simply a separatist Christian church that for religious belief differences on the subject of race simply doesn't adhere to the 'rules' of the Christian establishment?
Ordained Ministers that do not charge for their wedding services can refuse to perform weddings to any couple they choose. If they start charging for their services then they fall under public accommodation laws because money is being exchanged.
The same holds true with services or products being supplied to the public.
So a Catholic Priest can be forced to marry a gay couple?
Churches take fees for marriages all the time.
Again, a public accommodation is not "every time money changes hands"
If you knew the scripture, God's teaching, if you knew God, no one would have to tell you, and you wouldn't have to waste time trying to twist His words and His teachings.Tell me how refusing service to one of God's children honors God. Tell me how the basic tenets of Christianity; forgiveness, love, service and tolerance, can be so easily abandoned to serve a viler prurpose; judgmentalism, suspicion, unnecessary humiliation and hatred?No, you're just the idiot falsely accusing others of doing so.I'm not the one defending the guise of Christianity as a means to be intolerant, unforgiving, hateful and fearful.
exactly right
I for one don't know why the state recognizes a marriage performed in a church as legal anyway.
Why are we vesting powers of the state in clergymen at all?
There's no reason a clergyman can't be licensed to perform marriages. However, he then becomes a civil servant and should be subject to all laws pertaining to the exercise of that position.
So when you get a license to drive, you become a civil servant? When you get a business license, you become a civil servant. You get a liquor license and you become a public servant.
That is stretching the issue to force religious compliance and I believe that infringes on religious freedom.
The performance of a civil marriage ceremony is a civil service.
Stop being stupid. Stop. Now.
and all the celebrant is doing is being an offical witness to it. The license itself is still issued by the government, nothing more.
So your wank off dreams of forcing Catholic Priests to perform Same sex marriages is of course,a non-started.
If a priest won't perform a civil legal same sex marriage, then he shouldn't be allowed to perform any civil marriages.
If he doesn't want to do it in his church, he can do it somewhere else. Religion is not a free ticket to ignore the law.
So...incest and pedophilia AREN'T illegal in your "Constitutional equality" world?Under Constitutional equality, I should be able to marry my sister. We're consenting adults and stay out of our bedroom fuckers.
Under Constitutional equality, men should be allowed to marry children. My constitutional rights are violated because I can't marry my aunt.
Under Constitutional equality, young children must be allowed drive cars, never mind vote.
Under Constitutional equality, my rights are violated when my California vote doesn't equal your Alaskan vote. Oh look, our founding fathers fucked up with the 12th amendment.
Love liberal interpretations. I can pull all kinds of shit out of my ass EQUAL to men were intended to marry, have kids, and use the women's bathroom.
Not mine, YOURS
Why do you think incest and pedophilia should be legal in his world?
According to the arguments douche bags like you used to justify gay marriage, incest should be legal so long as both participants are over 18.
If you knew the scripture, God's teaching, if you knew God, no one would have to tell you, and you wouldn't have to waste time trying to twist His words and His teachings.Tell me how refusing service to one of God's children honors God. Tell me how the basic tenets of Christianity; forgiveness, love, service and tolerance, can be so easily abandoned to serve a viler prurpose; judgmentalism, suspicion, unnecessary humiliation and hatred?No, you're just the idiot falsely accusing others of doing so.I'm not the one defending the guise of Christianity as a means to be intolerant, unforgiving, hateful and fearful.
I suggest you pick up a Bible and begin reading so you can learn rather than make false accusations, talking about what you do not understand.
\\'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'
Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?
Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:
"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:
“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!
Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.
So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!
This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!
I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)
I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).
TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations
SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia
Auctually this is not true. I am an ordained minister and I can refuse to marry anybody for any reason. As a minister I am exempt from PA laws.Ordained Ministers that do not charge for their wedding services can refuse to perform weddings to any couple they choose. If they start charging for their services then they fall under public accommodation laws because money is being exchanged.
The same holds true with services or products being supplied to the public.
Yes it is, but that isn't the argument here. the argument is if PA laws get to ignore the 1st amendment entirely (as you are claiming, even if you don't realize it)
No they don't because running a business isn't a religious act, it's a commercial act carried out by people who may or not be of a particular religion.
There's a big difference.
You don't give up being a citizen with rights just because you decide to sell something.
You're not giving up rights. You don't have the right to break the law just because you claim to be under orders from an invisible supernatural being.
If the law is contrary to the concept of free exercise, it shouldn't be there in the first place.
A business is NOT the exercise of a religion. A prayer is. A Sunday sermon is.
Allowing free exercise to the extreme you desire would let Warren Jeffs off the hook for most of his convictions.
'All White' is a racist belief, not a religious belief...but thanks for playing.You want an all white church, you can probably have it. What you can't have is an all white place of business.
Not true. Alabama Church Holds “Whites-Only” Christian Conference
Yep, the guy is an idiot and is definitely not a Christian.
And you are the authority to define who is or isn't a Christian? What is that definition?
What if, let's say, his church is simply a separatist Christian church that for religious belief differences on the subject of race simply doesn't adhere to the 'rules' of the Christian establishment?
Christians are followers of Christ, Christ was not a racist, so you can figure it out.
No they don't because running a business isn't a religious act, it's a commercial act carried out by people who may or not be of a particular religion.
There's a big difference.
You don't give up being a citizen with rights just because you decide to sell something.
You're not giving up rights. You don't have the right to break the law just because you claim to be under orders from an invisible supernatural being.
If the law is contrary to the concept of free exercise, it shouldn't be there in the first place.
A business is NOT the exercise of a religion. A prayer is. A Sunday sermon is.
Allowing free exercise to the extreme you desire would let Warren Jeffs off the hook for most of his convictions.
I think that an ordained minister could refuse to perform a marriage that is outside their faith. There is no obligation because the decision is not based on race, or sex.
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This is another FAKE news story. Every business in this country has the right to refuse to do business with anyone.
'All White' is a racist belief, not a religious belief...but thanks for playing.You want an all white church, you can probably have it. What you can't have is an all white place of business.
Not true. Alabama Church Holds “Whites-Only” Christian Conference
Yep, the guy is an idiot and is definitely not a Christian.
And you are the authority to define who is or isn't a Christian? What is that definition?
What if, let's say, his church is simply a separatist Christian church that for religious belief differences on the subject of race simply doesn't adhere to the 'rules' of the Christian establishment?
Christians are followers of Christ, Christ was not a racist, so you can figure it out.
I'm happy to "oppress" you if insist on discriminating against a group because of their lifestyle. It ain't your business and it interferes with their equal rights.You'll have to ask the founders of this country who said all men are created equal. Who I'm boinking is not anyone else's business! So it isn't yours, either, and gives you no right to refuse to serve them because you don't care for their lifestyle.Homosexuality is no more of a choice than heterosexuality. What turns you on is pretty much born in you. So yes, you can insist people not have sex, but really, do you think that has or ever would work, anywhere? It may as well be genetic. I've never understood why it is such skin off anyone's nose. You take it to a whole nother level with your hatred.What you're missing is all discrimination laws, except for faghadist, are based on genetics and not personal preferences or conduct. There is nothing in the Constitution as amended that protects personal preferences or conduct form discrimination. Just because a bunch of fags and feel good regressives think it's a good idea to invent some kind of protection doesn't make it constitutional or right. BTW there are protections in the Constitution about involuntary servitude.
What about wanting to boink someone of the same sex gives you a legitimate right to force other citizens to serve you?
Positive rights aren't rights, they are just an excuse for oppression. I'm not forcing anyone to do shit. You're forcing me to yield to your superiority. Get off your high horse as if you're protecting anyone. You're the oppressor
'All White' is a racist belief, not a religious belief...but thanks for playing.
Not true. Alabama Church Holds “Whites-Only” Christian Conference
Yep, the guy is an idiot and is definitely not a Christian.
And you are the authority to define who is or isn't a Christian? What is that definition?
What if, let's say, his church is simply a separatist Christian church that for religious belief differences on the subject of race simply doesn't adhere to the 'rules' of the Christian establishment?
Christians are followers of Christ, Christ was not a racist, so you can figure it out.
So does that disqualify them from being religious?
