Freedom of Religion? Christian Artists Face Jail Time For Not Making Same-Sex Wedding Invitations

[easyt65]

Religion has nothing to do with it. It's the scope of services provided by the merchant.

I am a Christian. The basic tenant of my faith is the Golden Rule.

Are you trying to suggest that ALL Christians are like you or should be forced to adapt / adhere to YOUR religious beliefs?

Again, thank GOD we have the Constitutional freedom of all religion and the exercise thereof'!

 

[martybegan]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

1. you don't get to decide that.

2/ State laws cannot override constitutional protections.

Where in the con does it say a business can do whatever it wants by claiming "religious freedom" ?

Can a liquor store sell wine to minors and say "it's the body of Christ . Drinking laws don't apply." No , of course they can't .

Where does it say that one loses their 1st amendment rights when they try to sell something?

Actually that would be the "blood of Christ", and it's not sold, its given out in little tiny sips.

 

[easyt65]

I thought they were running a business, open to the public, in Phoenix.

Wherever, but doing so does not mean they must forfeit their Constitutionally protected rights.

 

[Nosmo King]

[QUOTE="Nosmo King, post: 15985161, member: 20704
Religion has nothing to do with it. It's the scope of services provided by the merchant.

I am a Christian. The basic tenant of my faith is the Golden Rule.

Are you trying to suggest that ALL Christians are like you or should be forced to adapt / adhere to YOUR religious beliefs?

Again, thank GOD we have the Constitutional freedom of all religion and the exercise thereof'![/QUOTE]
NO. I said the basic tenets of my faith are the Golden Rule and to not judge lest I be judged. I further believe that those are the basic tenets of all Christianity. Do you know of any true Christians who eschew the Golden Rule? Any Christians out there who believe that fear and hatred should underpin their faith? Any Christians who would argue that God is not love?

If so, I suggest you are dealing with another faith, not Christianity.

 

[Timmy]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

'They are not real Christians' - Thank you 'Adolf'!

They are not ! Not if they are treating people that way . What would Jesus do ?

if they are soooo religious they also wouldn't sell to divorcees , non Christian marriages , marriages not done in a church , marriage of people living in sin , and so on.



If they did that , they wouldn't even be in business ! They are fake Christians .

 

[BlindBoo]

I thought they were running a business, open to the public, in Phoenix.

Wherever, but doing so does not mean they must forfeit their Constitutionally protected rights.

The City of Phoenix, or any other city, or state, has the right to protect it citizens from unconstitutional discrimination by religious zealots pretending to hide behind the same constitution.

 

[easyt65]

Any Christians out there who believe that fear and hatred should underpin their faith? Any Christians who would argue that God is not love?

NOW you are suggesting that adhering to the Bible's teachings about not engaging in, facilitating, enabling, or encouraging sin is an act of abject hatred of the person versus Christians being taught - as you should know - one should hate the sin instead of the sinner.

Got it.

 

[easyt65]

They are not ! Not if they are treating people that way . What would Jesus do ?

Thank you again for YOUR interpretation / opinions. AGAIN, thank GOD we have the Constitutional right to freedom of religion instead of being forced to endure others forcing theirs upon us!

You guys continue to demonstrate the wisdom behind creating this Constitutionally protected right. Thank you.

 

[BlindBoo]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

'They are not real Christians' - Thank you 'Adolf'!

They are not ! Not if they are treating people that way . What would Jesus do ?

if they are soooo religious they also wouldn't sell to divorcees , non Christian marriages , marriages not done in a church , marriage of people living in sin , and so on.



If they did that , they wouldn't even be in business ! They are fake Christians .

Gluttons, Christian restaurants could discriminate based on weight too I suppose......

 

[Timmy]

I thought they were running a business, open to the public, in Phoenix.

Wherever, but doing so does not mean they must forfeit their Constitutionally protected rights.

They haven't . There's a big distinction between business and personal.

You don't have to follow board of health rules in your persona cooking at home .

You bet your ass you do if you own a restaurant.

 

[easyt65]

The City of Phoenix, or any other city, or state, has the right to protect it citizens from unconstitutional discrimination by religious zealots pretending to hide behind the same constitution.

Except the Constitution protects freedom of religion from liberals who seek to impose their will, definitions, interpretations, and limitations on religious freedom and the exercise thereof.

 

[martybegan]

I thought they were running a business, open to the public, in Phoenix.

Wherever, but doing so does not mean they must forfeit their Constitutionally protected rights.

The City of Phoenix, or any other city, or state, has the right to protect it citizens from unconstitutional discrimination by religious zealots pretending to hide behind the same constitution.

"The City of Phoenix, or any other city or State, has the right to protect its citizens by nullifying 4th amendment search rights, and speedy trial rights.."

Why not go with that Statement as well?

 

[the_human_being]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

You want an all white church, you can probably have it. What you can't have is an all white place of business.

What it boils down to is that the gays simply must shove their depraved lifestyle down everyone's throats. They seek an acceptance which they will never obtain freely therefore they must resort to the Liberal courts to force it upon society.

 

[Timmy]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

1. you don't get to decide that.

2/ State laws cannot override constitutional protections.

Where in the con does it say a business can do whatever it wants by claiming "religious freedom" ?

Can a liquor store sell wine to minors and say "it's the body of Christ . Drinking laws don't apply." No , of course they can't .

Where does it say that one loses their 1st amendment rights when they try to sell something?

Actually that would be the "blood of Christ", and it's not sold, its given out in little tiny sips.

Who says so ? Drink size is not in the Bible .

What makes my wine example any different than the wedding cArd? Other than the hatered of gays .

 

[easyt65]

You don't have to follow board of health rules in your persona cooking at home .

You bet your ass you do if you own a restaurant.

What the HELL does board of health laws have to do with this or religious freedoms? I am not aware of ANY religious objections to cleanliness or prevention of bacteria, etc.... Nice strawman.

 

[Nosmo King]

Any Christians out there who believe that fear and hatred should underpin their faith? Any Christians who would argue that God is not love?

NOW you are suggesting that adhering to the Bible's teachings about not engaging in, facilitating, enabling, or encouraging sin is an act of abject hatred of the person versus Christians being taught - as you should know - one should hate the sin instead of the sinner.

Got it.

So, in your opinion, people should discriminate, unnecessarily humiliate and demean other people after a judgment has been made that those other people are sinners. And they can do this while claiming to be Christians and Americans with all the rights and protections in tact. And still call themselves Christian.

Way to spread the good news! Hallelujah!

 

[bodecea]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Google this.....only on far right sites, doesn't list the ordinance (people don't get arrested for ordinances, btw, only fined) and some sources state that it is THEM who is suing the state.....not the other way around.

Here: look over Google search: Google

 

[martybegan]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

1. you don't get to decide that.

2/ State laws cannot override constitutional protections.

Where in the con does it say a business can do whatever it wants by claiming "religious freedom" ?

Can a liquor store sell wine to minors and say "it's the body of Christ . Drinking laws don't apply." No , of course they can't .

Where does it say that one loses their 1st amendment rights when they try to sell something?

Actually that would be the "blood of Christ", and it's not sold, its given out in little tiny sips.

Who says so ? Drink size is not in the Bible .

What makes my wine example any different than the wedding cArd? Other than the hatered of gays .

Because your example would be more apt of you wanted to FORCE they wine merchant to sell wine to underage people.

It's not about the end result, its about the FORCE.

 

[easyt65]

What it boils down to is that the gays simply must shove their depraved lifestyle down everyone's throats. They seek an acceptance which they will never obtain freely therefore they must resort to the Liberal courts to force it upon society.

I somewhat agree, but it doesn't have to be about homosexuality. Again, if it involved bestiality, should such become legally acceptable in the future and Christians refused to enable such behavior - despite it being legal - they should not be forced by a government to do so.

It's about religious freedom.

 

[Nosmo King]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

You want an all white church, you can probably have it. What you can't have is an all white place of business.

What it boils down to is that the gays simply must shove their depraved lifestyle down everyone's throats. They seek an acceptance which they will never obtain freely therefore they must resort to the Liberal courts to force it upon society.

Eerily reminiscent of all other repressed groups in this nation's history. That's why that big statue of Justice wears a blindfold. Society's hatred, fears and predjudices get checked at the door to the courthouse.