Freedom of Religion? Christian Artists Face Jail Time For Not Making Same-Sex Wedding Invitations

[BlindBoo]

so where is the equal protection?

Lobby the City Council if you want them to include protection for the Political Class.

 

[Moonglow]

You don't get to decide what is or isn't moral and the government be damned. That's reality.

No I don't, but I san point out that the United States Constitution protects 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof' from liberals who seek to control and enforce their will on Christians.

Religion seeks to impose it's will on others, why is that okay?

 

[martybegan]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

Were these folks prevented from attending worship services? Was their church closed? How were they prevented from practicing their religion, exactly?

Freedom of religion isn't just about going to church, or being able to go to church.

Yeah it's about making them um, er them Gays, into second class citizens not worthy of service in the real America!

So instead you turn these people in 2nd class citizens, over a freaking wedding invitation.

Also, NYC makes me a 2nd class citizen by making me wait 3-6 months and pay $800 or so to get a home handgun permit, while cops are allowed home use automatically.

I bet you don't have an issue with that, right?

Are they doing business, open to the public, in Phoenix? They are business owners like everyone else in Phoenix and they should all play by the same rules.

Move to Texas. We sell guns and you can open a business and discriminate against the Gays all day long.

One shouldn't have to move to exercise and explicit right, and one shouldn't have to fold ones non-essential business because some local government decided their moral code overrides other's moral codes.

Again, you are attempting to legislate butthurt, not actual economic harm.

 

[Nosmo King]

I think I am going to go into a Vegan restaurant tonight, order a steak, act immensely offended they don't offer meat, declare I am being discriminated against, and demand they either start selling meat or be forced out of business, despite the fact that there are other places I can go that sells steaks.

All offensive discriminating business must be destroyed.

You are wrong. A vegan restaurant would not have meat on the menu, so your offense can be duly noted, but not actionable. Photographers, printers, bakers and other wedding vendors provide their services with a menu of sorts. Providing services for a same sex couple makes no special demands above and beyond the services they normally provide.

 

[martybegan]

so where is the equal protection?

Lobby the City Council if you want them to include protection for the Political Class.

Actually remove all protections except for essential, or time sensitive, or point of sale services, and I would be OK with PA laws.

PA laws went wrong when they assumed every transaction was a PA.

 

[mdk]

Hells bells, I had our wedding invitations crafted by using Vistaprint. They looked smashing and it also saved us a boat load of money.

 

[easyt65]

Are they doing business, open to the public, in Phoenix? They are business owners like everyone else in Phoenix and they should all play by the same rules.

1. Having a business does not mean you forfeit your Constitutional right to 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof'.

2. If the 'same rules that apply' discriminate / violate my Constitutional right of 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof, no I don't have to 'play'.

If the business suddenly changed it's name to 'Christian Wedding invitations', much like the existence of 'Christian book Stores', would that be ok...or are libs going after them next?

 

[BlindBoo]

I think I am going to go into a Vegan restaurant tonight, order a steak, act immensely offended they don't offer meat, declare I am being discriminated against, and demand they either start selling meat or be forced out of business, despite the fact that there are other places I can go that sells steaks.

All offensive discriminating business must be destroyed.

Meat eaters is not a protected class. Try again (frozen water vapor crystal).

 

[easyt65]

You are wrong. A vegan restaurant would not have meat on the menu, so your offense can be duly noted, but not actionable. Photographers, printers, bakers and other wedding vendors provide their services with a menu of sorts. Providing services for a same sex couple makes no special demands above and beyond the services they normally provide.

As you pointed out, the Vegan restaurant does not have a religious objection to serving meat - that's just not what they do and thus should not be forced to serve meat. This company, however, does have a Constitutionally protected freedom of religion and the right to exercise that religion as they choose.

 

[easyt65]

Meat eaters is not a protected class. Try again (frozen water vapor crystal).

I was making a point....as already explained.

 

[martybegan]

I think I am going to go into a Vegan restaurant tonight, order a steak, act immensely offended they don't offer meat, declare I am being discriminated against, and demand they either start selling meat or be forced out of business, despite the fact that there are other places I can go that sells steaks.

All offensive discriminating business must be destroyed.

Meat eaters is not a protected class. Try again (frozen water vapor crystal).

The whole idea of protected classes was to protect from actual harm, not butt hurt.

 

[easyt65]

The whole idea of protected classes was to protect from actual harm, not butt hurt.

...and no actual harm has been done to these people as a result of this business refusing to do the job on religious grounds, as there are many other places that would love to have their business. That is not good enough for some liberals - again, it is about control - they want to force everyone to comply with their demands, even if Un-Constitutional.

 

[Timmy]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

 

[martybegan]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

1. you don't get to decide that.

2/ State laws cannot override constitutional protections.

 

[BlindBoo]

Are they doing business, open to the public, in Phoenix? They are business owners like everyone else in Phoenix and they should all play by the same rules.

1. Having a business does not mean you forfeit your Constitutional right to 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof'.

2. If the 'same rules that apply' discriminate / violate my Constitutional right of 'freedom of religion and the exercise thereof, no I don't have to 'play'.

If the business suddenly changed it's name to 'Christian Wedding invitations', much like the existence of 'Christian book Stores', would that be ok...or are libs going after them next?

Freedom of religion doesn't give anyone a constitutional right to discriminate or violate anyone else's constitutional rights. Discrimination against gay citizens depends entirely on which state/city you do business in.

 

[Timmy]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

1. you don't get to decide that.

2/ State laws cannot override constitutional protections.

Where in the con does it say a business can do whatever it wants by claiming "religious freedom" ?

Can a liquor store sell wine to minors and say "it's the body of Christ . Drinking laws don't apply." No , of course they can't .

 

[Nosmo King]

You are wrong. A vegan restaurant would not have meat on the menu, so your offense can be duly noted, but not actionable. Photographers, printers, bakers and other wedding vendors provide their services with a menu of sorts. Providing services for a same sex couple makes no special demands above and beyond the services they normally provide.

As you pointed out, the Vegan restaurant does not have a religious objection to serving meat - that's just not what they do and thus should not be forced to serve meat. This company, however, does have a Constitutionally protected freedom of religion and the right to exercise that religion as they choose.

Religion has nothing to do with it. It's the scope of services provided by the merchant.

I am a Christian. The basic tenant of my faith is the Golden Rule. Do unto others, it says, as you would have others do unto you. Also, Jesus Christ admonished to cast NOT the first stone unless you too are free of sin.

What these 'Christian' merchants are doing flies in the face of the most important commandment given by the Lord. Never has my minister admonished the congregation to avoid commerce with anyone, let alone homosexuals. These so-called Christian merchants are warping a beautiful, loving and forgiving faith to serve a vile and ugly purpose. If they seek protection under the constitution, they will be warping the very law of the land to serve a vile and ugly purpose.

Baking a cake, printing an invitation, taking a photograph is something wedding vendors do as part and parcel of their income. Providing services does not imperil their immortal soul nor will it impede their RIGHT to believe in the warped interpretation of Christianity they subscribe to.

 

[BlindBoo]

You are wrong. A vegan restaurant would not have meat on the menu, so your offense can be duly noted, but not actionable. Photographers, printers, bakers and other wedding vendors provide their services with a menu of sorts. Providing services for a same sex couple makes no special demands above and beyond the services they normally provide.

As you pointed out, the Vegan restaurant does not have a religious objection to serving meat - that's just not what they do and thus should not be forced to serve meat. This company, however, does have a Constitutionally protected freedom of religion and the right to exercise that religion as they choose.

I thought they were running a business, open to the public, in Phoenix.

 

[Norman]

'Two Arizona Christian artists face the possibility of being jailed, in addition to being fined, after they recently refused to make invitations for a same-sex wedding.'

Ummmm...did we go to bed and suddenly wake up in Communist Russia, China, or North Korea?

Liberals have been pushing the GLBT Lifestyle on everyone as 'the norm', except it ISN'T to many Americans, especially those who have a religious objection to it. Those religious beliefs - and the practice of them - are actually PROTECTED by the Constitution:

"The Free Exercise Clause is the accompanying clause with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause together read:

“ Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

What do the Liberal / LGBT 'Nazi's' not understand about that?!

Liberals can argue all day long about how it's discrimination, but it's not. It is one's personal religious belief, part of their faith, and THAT, again, is protected by the Constitution.

So Liberals are going to demand everyone else comply with their demands, regardless of what the Constitution says, and if the individuals refuse they are going to judicially punish them?!

This is an example of WHY we have the Constitution, why we have the Bill of Rights - to protect us from tyranny that encroaches on our personal rights!

I am NOT comparing these, but let's say in the future somehow liberals ram a law onto the books allowing Pedophilia, Bestiality, or Necrophilia? If Christians refuse to participate in any part of those, even if it has been approved by the government, will the government move to punish Christians - to jail Christians - for exercising their Constitutional Right to exercise their religion?
(-- Pretty ironic since this nation only exists because of a people who left England so they could freely exercise their religion without Government oppression, condemnation, and control.)

I understand laws against discrimination - I do, and I do support them....but I draw the line here. The Constitution clearly states, again:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The government, however, is encroaching more and more on our rights while justifying doing so more and more. Doing so, allowing it to be done, is the start down a very dangerous road (IMO).


TOPIC:
Christian artists face jail time for refusing to make same-sex wedding invitations

SUPPORTING:
Free Exercise Clause - Wikipedia

The SJWs of the regessive party are indeed, big fans of North Korea. Don't do as they say and it's jail.

 

[easyt65]

1). They aren't real Christians so they don't deserve protection

2) a business has to follow state laws .

'They are not real Christians' - Thank you 'Adolf'!