Frivolous litigants crucified by court-Rachel Maddow melts down

[WinterBorn]

Put some mental health professional in jail for dereliction of duty and the next one will report his crazy patient to the database. There is no way a dealer is derelict. He got the approval of the federal government.

I don't care if he got a stone tablet signed by God. He sold a gun to an obviously crazy person. He should go to prison.

I don't care what sort of lunacy you espouse, the mental health professionals were derelict in their duty and should be held responsible.

 

[WinterBorn]

And what percentage of those homicides were committed by legal gun owners?

I debunked the whole gang thing pages ago, guy. Most gun homicides are done by legal gun owners.

Okay, let's try this again. The typical argument by the gun nuts is that '80% of gun homicides are gang related" - Translation - "It's just the Darkies killing each other, so it's okay."

Now as horrible and racist as that thinking is, it also has the vice of NOT BEING TRUE.

Request Rejected

• The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged nearly 2,000 annually from 2007 to 2012. During roughly the same time period (2007 to 2011), the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 13 percent of all homicides annually.

Did we get that? The majority of homicides are not committed by gang members.

However, the majority of homicides ARE committed by gun owners, as of that 15,500 homicides, 11,000 are committed with guns.

So, no, it isn't the gangbanger you have to worry about. It's more than likely your neighbor or your significant other.

So you are saying that anyone who isn't a gang member is a legal gun owner? Really? And you have the audacity to call me racist? lmao

 

[JoeB131]

I don't care what sort of lunacy you espouse, the mental health professionals were derelict in their duty and should be held responsible.

So where the gun dealers. The problem is, with gun dealers, dereliction isn't a design flaw, it's a design feature.

So you are saying that anyone who isn't a gang member is a legal gun owner? Really? And you have the audacity to call me racist? lmao

Why would anyone need to be an "illegal" gun owner when guns are so fucking easy to get?

Here's the real problem. Most gun homicides are domestic disputes. It's why we have 15,000+ murders while other industrialized countries only have hundreds.

 

[WinterBorn]

I don't care what sort of lunacy you espouse, the mental health professionals were derelict in their duty and should be held responsible.

So where the gun dealers. The problem is, with gun dealers, dereliction isn't a design flaw, it's a design feature.

So you are saying that anyone who isn't a gang member is a legal gun owner? Really? And you have the audacity to call me racist? lmao

Why would anyone need to be an "illegal" gun owner when guns are so fucking easy to get?

Here's the real problem. Most gun homicides are domestic disputes. It's why we have 15,000+ murders while other industrialized countries only have hundreds.

No, the background check for buying a gun relies on mental health professionals reporting the lunatics they treat. You think its ok that they ignore this requirement and responsibility.

Between the mental health professionals and the gun store clerk, there are differences.

One is required to report dangerous crazies to the system setup to stop those crazies from buying a gun. The other is required to use the system to check whether or not the person purchasing a gun is a felon, domestic abuser, or crazy. You want to blame the gun store clerk because the information is not in the system, but are just fine with the mental health professionals not putting it in the system. Can you see the hypocrisy there?

 

[WinterBorn]

But then, given your insistence that Holmes had a "machine gun", I can see why facts aren't something you worry too much about.

 

[JoeB131]

No, the background check for buying a gun relies on mental health professionals reporting the lunatics they treat. You think its ok that they ignore this requirement and responsibility.

No, I think they need to go a little further and practice a bit of common sense. Someone comes in for just a target pistol, that's one thing, and the background check if probably fine. Someone comes in for a Semi-Automatic Rifle and a 100 round magazine, that's someone who is looking to do some serious mayhem. That's when you ask a few more questions.

Unless your industry goal is to keep as many people scared as humanly possible so they all want guns, too.

One is required to report dangerous crazies to the system setup to stop those crazies from buying a gun. The other is required to use the system to check whether or not the person purchasing a gun is a felon, domestic abuser, or crazy. You want to blame the gun store clerk because the information is not in the system, but are just fine with the mental health professionals not putting it in the system. Can you see the hypocrisy there?

Uh, no, actually, I don't. Mostly because the mental health official didn't give Holmes the capability to kill dozens of people. The gun dealer did.

 

[WinterBorn]

No, the background check for buying a gun relies on mental health professionals reporting the lunatics they treat. You think its ok that they ignore this requirement and responsibility.

No, I think they need to go a little further and practice a bit of common sense. Someone comes in for just a target pistol, that's one thing, and the background check if probably fine. Someone comes in for a Semi-Automatic Rifle and a 100 round magazine, that's someone who is looking to do some serious mayhem. That's when you ask a few more questions.

Unless your industry goal is to keep as many people scared as humanly possible so they all want guns, too.

One is required to report dangerous crazies to the system setup to stop those crazies from buying a gun. The other is required to use the system to check whether or not the person purchasing a gun is a felon, domestic abuser, or crazy. You want to blame the gun store clerk because the information is not in the system, but are just fine with the mental health professionals not putting it in the system. Can you see the hypocrisy there?

Uh, no, actually, I don't. Mostly because the mental health official didn't give Holmes the capability to kill dozens of people. The gun dealer did.

What requires common sense is to look more closely at your claims. You have your panties in a wad over Holmes buying the rifle and 100 round magazine. But the rifle jammed after only firing a few rounds. Most of the killing was done with the shotgun and Glock. Those you don't seem as worried about. Much like your claim that the civilian AR "looks just like the rifle you had in the Army", it is not the actual death and mayhem you are whining about. It is nonsense.

Since the sale of a firearm from a dealer requires that the person pass the background check, the mental health professional's dereliction of duty directly resulted in Holmes being able to buy a firearm.

 

[JoeB131]

What requires common sense is to look more closely at your claims. You have your panties in a wad over Holmes buying the rifle and 100 round magazine. But the rifle jammed after only firing a few rounds.

COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT!!!! Are you saying you are sad that he didn't kill more people, because that was certainly his intent.

Seriously, nowhere do you have a complete disaster where "Well, I followed the rules" becomes an acceptable excuse. People have been FIRED for a lot less.

 

[WinterBorn]

What requires common sense is to look more closely at your claims. You have your panties in a wad over Holmes buying the rifle and 100 round magazine. But the rifle jammed after only firing a few rounds.

COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT!!!! Are you saying you are sad that he didn't kill more people, because that was certainly his intent.

Seriously, nowhere do you have a complete disaster where "Well, I followed the rules" becomes an acceptable excuse. People have been FIRED for a lot less.

Completely fucking relevant. It shows that you are concerned about what it looks like, as opposed to any actual danger.

And no where did you have someone go to prison when laws were not broken. No laws were broken in the sale of the gun.

 

[JoeB131]

Completely fucking relevant. It shows that you are concerned about what it looks like, as opposed to any actual danger.

And no where did you have someone go to prison when laws were not broken. No laws were broken in the sale of the gun.

Accessory to murder was breaking a law, last time I checked.

 

[WinterBorn]

Completely fucking relevant. It shows that you are concerned about what it looks like, as opposed to any actual danger.

And no where did you have someone go to prison when laws were not broken. No laws were broken in the sale of the gun.

Accessory to murder was breaking a law, last time I checked.

The clerk is not an accessory to murder.

Here is the definition: "A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support."

The gun clerk did none of that. In fact, the clerk did as the law requires and checked the database to see if Holmes had any felony record or had been judged insane. The system said he hadn't. Know why? Because the mental health professionals were derelict in their duty and ignored a dangerous madman.

 

[JoeB131]

The clerk is not an accessory to murder.

Here is the definition: "A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support."

The gun clerk did none of that. In fact, the clerk did as the law requires and checked the database to see if Holmes had any felony record or had been judged insane. The system said he hadn't. Know why? Because the mental health professionals were derelict in their duty and ignored a dangerous madman.

Guy, "I did the bare minimum" doesn't cut it. The Gun Industry has been singing that song since JFK was shot.

 

[WinterBorn]

The clerk is not an accessory to murder.

Here is the definition: "A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support."

The gun clerk did none of that. In fact, the clerk did as the law requires and checked the database to see if Holmes had any felony record or had been judged insane. The system said he hadn't. Know why? Because the mental health professionals were derelict in their duty and ignored a dangerous madman.

Guy, "I did the bare minimum" doesn't cut it. The Gun Industry has been singing that song since JFK was shot.

Yes, it does cut it. The law requires that gun dealers follow certain procedures. They did that.

The law also requires that the mental health professionals follow certain procedures. They did NOT do that.

 

[2aguy]

The clerk is not an accessory to murder.

Here is the definition: "A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support."

The gun clerk did none of that. In fact, the clerk did as the law requires and checked the database to see if Holmes had any felony record or had been judged insane. The system said he hadn't. Know why? Because the mental health professionals were derelict in their duty and ignored a dangerous madman.

Guy, "I did the bare minimum" doesn't cut it. The Gun Industry has been singing that song since JFK was shot.

Yes, it does cut it. The law requires that gun dealers follow certain procedures. They did that.

The law also requires that the mental health professionals follow certain procedures. They did NOT do that.

And on top of that, gun dealers have called the police and federal authorities on people they know were up to no good...and they don't get credit for it....a guy from canada with a fake I.D. just got stopped because a gun dealer was suspicious....and there are cases of this all the time...you just don't hear about them.......it wrecks the meme that gun dealers are just handing guns out to criminals like candy.....

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, it does cut it. The law requires that gun dealers follow certain procedures. They did that.

The law also requires that the mental health professionals follow certain procedures. They did NOT do that.

Then the law is fucked up. sorry, dude, it just is.

But this is the problem when you claim the ability to kill other people is a "right".

 

[JoeB131]

And on top of that, gun dealers have called the police and federal authorities on people they know were up to no good...and they don't get credit for it....a guy from canada with a fake I.D. just got stopped because a gun dealer was suspicious....and there are cases of this all the time...you just don't hear about them.......it wrecks the meme that gun dealers are just handing guns out to criminals like candy.....

32,000 gun deaths. 78,000 gun injuries. 300,000 gun crimes.

Sounds kind of like they are.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yes, it does cut it. The law requires that gun dealers follow certain procedures. They did that.

The law also requires that the mental health professionals follow certain procedures. They did NOT do that.

Then the law is fucked up. sorry, dude, it just is.

But this is the problem when you claim the ability to kill other people is a "right".

Once again you try using lies as an argument.

No one is claiming the right to kill people. There is a right to defend yourself, but that is a completely different matter.

And it is funny that you think the law is "fucked up" when it requires that mental health professionals submit the names of the crazies to the system. But you expect a gun store clerk to be able to diagnose mental illnesses. It is obvious you are far more interested in disarming the population than in saving lives.

 

[WinterBorn]

And on top of that, gun dealers have called the police and federal authorities on people they know were up to no good...and they don't get credit for it....a guy from canada with a fake I.D. just got stopped because a gun dealer was suspicious....and there are cases of this all the time...you just don't hear about them.......it wrecks the meme that gun dealers are just handing guns out to criminals like candy.....

32,000 gun deaths. 78,000 gun injuries. 300,000 gun crimes.

Sounds kind of like they are.

Sounds kinda like they are? 0.0015% of privately owned guns commit murders. That sounds pretty much like they are not.

But "Sounds kinda like they are" is just like "Looks just like the one they issued me in the Army". Worthless statements.

 

[2aguy]

And on top of that, gun dealers have called the police and federal authorities on people they know were up to no good...and they don't get credit for it....a guy from canada with a fake I.D. just got stopped because a gun dealer was suspicious....and there are cases of this all the time...you just don't hear about them.......it wrecks the meme that gun dealers are just handing guns out to criminals like candy.....

32,000 gun deaths. 78,000 gun injuries. 300,000 gun crimes.

Sounds kind of like they are.

Joe....in 2013 there were exactly 505 accidental gun deaths, and according to the FBI table 8, 8,454 gun murders.....

Guns are least of our worries.....try these...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208


Accidental gun deaths 2013......505


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505

In a country of over 320 million people 505 deaths are tragic.....but not a problem worth destroying a Right over.....

 

[2aguy]

And on top of that, gun dealers have called the police and federal authorities on people they know were up to no good...and they don't get credit for it....a guy from canada with a fake I.D. just got stopped because a gun dealer was suspicious....and there are cases of this all the time...you just don't hear about them.......it wrecks the meme that gun dealers are just handing guns out to criminals like candy.....

32,000 gun deaths. 78,000 gun injuries. 300,000 gun crimes.

Sounds kind of like they are.

300,000 gun crimes.

And of course you ignore the research...40 years of research by actual criminologists, and economists both private and public...many of whom are as anti gun as you are joe....who have found that guns are at a minimum used 764,000 times a year to stop violent crime and save lives and taken together, the studies show when averaged that violent criminals are stopped 2 million times a year.....