Gang member shoots other gang member in defense

[2aguy]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting



ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.

Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.

The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.

Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.

Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.

When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.

Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.

“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”

Mather fired once, and then started running.

“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”

Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.

That is a lie brain. No study says that.

Kleck has said most are involved in criminal activity. And it's simply common sense. What study says most defenses aren't criminal on criminal?

And you know that is a lie as well….the criminal activity he specifically stated was carrying a legal gun in public without the right paperwork, not actual criminal activity…..and this is why you are vile brain….you are lying…

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082.html#.VOX70cbJBW6

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

-----------
To summarize, notwithstanding DeFilippis and Hughes’ one-sided cherry-picking of the research evidence, surveys do not overestimate the number of DGUs (or anything else crime-related), and at least 18 national surveys have consistently confirmed that DGUs are very common, probably more common than criminal uses of guns.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting



ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.

Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.

The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.

Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.

Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.

When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.

Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.

“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”

Mather fired once, and then started running.

“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”

Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.

That is a lie brain. No study says that.

Kleck has said most are involved in criminal activity. And it's simply common sense. What study says most defenses aren't criminal on criminal?

What study says most are?

 

[Brain357]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Guns are for protection, as we all know...

 

[Brain357]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting



ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.

Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.

The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.

Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.

Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.

When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.

Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.

“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”

Mather fired once, and then started running.

“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”

Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.

That is a lie brain. No study says that.

Kleck has said most are involved in criminal activity. And it's simply common sense. What study says most defenses aren't criminal on criminal?

And you know that is a lie as well….the criminal activity he specifically stated was carrying a legal gun in public without the right paperwork, not actual criminal activity…..and this is why you are vile brain….you are lying…

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082.html#.VOX70cbJBW6

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

But he has also said most defenses are at home, not in a public place.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

 

[2aguy]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting



ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.

Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.

The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.

Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.

Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.

When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.

Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.

“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”

Mather fired once, and then started running.

“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”

Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.

That is a lie brain. No study says that.

Kleck has said most are involved in criminal activity. And it's simply common sense. What study says most defenses aren't criminal on criminal?

And you know that is a lie as well….the criminal activity he specifically stated was carrying a legal gun in public without the right paperwork, not actual criminal activity…..and this is why you are vile brain….you are lying…

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082.html#.VOX70cbJBW6

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

But he has also said most defenses are at home, not in a public place.

Not correct……

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

"...88% of the violent crimes which respondents [Rs] reported to NCVS interviewers in 1992 were committed away from the victim's home, i.e., in a location where it would ordinarily be a crime for the victim to even possess a gun, never mind use it defensively. Because the question about location is asked before the self-protection questions, the typical violent crime victim R has already committed himself to having been victimized in a public place before being asked what he or she did for self-protection. In short, Rs usually could not mention their defensive use of a gun without, in effect, confessing to a crime to a federal government employee."

 

[2aguy]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting



ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.

Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.

The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.

Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.

Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.

When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.

Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.

“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”

Mather fired once, and then started running.

“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”

Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.

That is a lie brain. No study says that.

Kleck has said most are involved in criminal activity. And it's simply common sense. What study says most defenses aren't criminal on criminal?

And you know that is a lie as well….the criminal activity he specifically stated was carrying a legal gun in public without the right paperwork, not actual criminal activity…..and this is why you are vile brain….you are lying…

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082.html#.VOX70cbJBW6

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

But he has also said most defenses are at home, not in a public place.

And here is more…

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces. Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082#ixzz3xiBzRxaz

 

[TNHarley]

Brain, you might have a point if most gun violence wasnt done by gang members.(excluding suicide of course)
Math foreign to you bro?

And so most defenses will be like this one.

umm ok. So whats your point?

 

[AmericanFirst1]

Brain, you might have a point if most gun violence wasnt done by gang members.(excluding suicide of course)
Math foreign to you bro?

And so most defenses will be like this one.

umm ok. So whats your point?

The only point brainiac has is the point on top of his head.

 

[Brain357]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

The people who will have the most defenses are those being attacked the most. That group is clearly criminals.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

The people who will have the most defenses are those being attacked the most. That group is clearly criminals.

Keep proving your an idiot.

 

[Papageorgio]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

You got proof of this claim?

 

[Brain357]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting



ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.

Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.

The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.

Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.

Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.

When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.

Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.

“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”

Mather fired once, and then started running.

“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”

Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.

That is a lie brain. No study says that.

Kleck has said most are involved in criminal activity. And it's simply common sense. What study says most defenses aren't criminal on criminal?

And you know that is a lie as well….the criminal activity he specifically stated was carrying a legal gun in public without the right paperwork, not actual criminal activity…..and this is why you are vile brain….you are lying…

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082.html#.VOX70cbJBW6

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

-----------
To summarize, notwithstanding DeFilippis and Hughes’ one-sided cherry-picking of the research evidence, surveys do not overestimate the number of DGUs (or anything else crime-related), and at least 18 national surveys have consistently confirmed that DGUs are very common, probably more common than criminal uses of guns.

Read what he is saying. The defender doesnt use the gun to committ a crime. In the OP the defender isn't using his gun in crime either, but is still a gang member.

 

[Brain357]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

The people who will have the most defenses are those being attacked the most. That group is clearly criminals.

Keep proving your an idiot.

If you think armed gang members don't defend themselves you are clearly the idiot. See the OP that is what they do.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.

You got proof of this claim?

He doesn't

 

[AmericanFirst1]

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

The people who will have the most defenses are those being attacked the most. That group is clearly criminals.

Keep proving your an idiot.

If you think armed gang members don't defend themselves you are clearly the idiot. See the OP that is what they do.

No, clearly you are the idiot, as always. So you defend a thugs right to use an illegal weapon but support taking honest citizens guns away? Is that it commie retard?

 

[2aguy]

Can you provide statistical evidence that most cases of guns being used in self defense are gang members shooting other gang members?

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

The people who will have the most defenses are those being attacked the most. That group is clearly criminals.

Keep proving your an idiot.

If you think armed gang members don't defend themselves you are clearly the idiot. See the OP that is what they do.

wrong….gang members do not answer anonymous phone caller and admit they have an illegal gun and that they used the illegal gun to shoot someone even in self defense.

 

[Brain357]

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

The people who will have the most defenses are those being attacked the most. That group is clearly criminals.

Keep proving your an idiot.

If you think armed gang members don't defend themselves you are clearly the idiot. See the OP that is what they do.

wrong….gang members do not answer anonymous phone caller and admit they have an illegal gun and that they used the illegal gun to shoot someone even in self defense.

Why not? Criminals do lots of stupid things. Show me where one of your studies say they weren't criminals.

 

[Brain357]

Most shootings are gang on gang. Why would you question those gang members often defend themselves? They are armed afterall.

Still no proof huh liar?

The people who will have the most defenses are those being attacked the most. That group is clearly criminals.

Keep proving your an idiot.

If you think armed gang members don't defend themselves you are clearly the idiot. See the OP that is what they do.

No, clearly you are the idiot, as always. So you defend a thugs right to use an illegal weapon but support taking honest citizens guns away? Is that it commie retard?

Huh? I haven't suggested taking any guns. And my support was sarcasm as was already explained.