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Here is another good citizen with a self defense shooting:
DA tries to block retrial in deadly Nevada casino shooting
Gonzalez, who was living in San Francisco, said he was acting in self-defense, unaware of any alleged conspiracy. He said he fired because Pettigrew and another Hells Angel were kicking a fellow Vagos member so hard in the head he thought they would kill him.
Yes…and none of them can legally own guns if they are felons….keep lying brain….I know you do it because you can't help yourself….but at least it is a new tactic in your anti gun campaign….
Lying about what? If this guy was surveyed he would say he has had a dgu.
Nope…he wouldn't have answered any call from an anonymous stranger on the phone to admit that as a felon he not only owned a gun illegally, he carried a gun illegally and then used the gun illegally….that would be about 3 new felonies right there………to some stranger on the phone who knows his address and now his crimes….
You base that on what? A smart person wouldn't be in a gang either. But he is. No surveys I know weed out felons or gang members who are not yet felons.
Why wouldn't a smart person be in a gang……..? There are definite benefits to being in a criminal organization over not being in one, they have made a choice….and to run an operation like that takes brains….if they don't want to end up in jail.
Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.
Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.
The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.
Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.
Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.
When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.
Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.
“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”
Mather fired once, and then started running.
“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”
Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.
Carl might be a P.O.S. gang member and a heroin user and/or dealer, but being attacked at 15 to 1 odds with metal pipes and baseball bats, I agree he feared for his life and I am comfortable with his claim of self defense.
And you might be surprised at how supportive the NRA is of young Carl in this.
I agree with 2aguy that nothing in this article or thread demonstrates that this is the norm for self defense, though.
Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.
Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.
The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.
Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.
Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.
When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.
Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.
“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”
Mather fired once, and then started running.
“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”
Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.
Carl might be a P.O.S. gang member and a heroin user and/or dealer, but being attacked at 15 to 1 odds with metal pipes and baseball bats, I agree he feared for his life and I am comfortable with his claim of self defense.
And you might be surprised at how supportive the NRA is of young Carl in this.
I agree with 2aguy that nothing in this article or thread demonstrates that this is the norm for self defense, though.
Certainly it is a defense. Society isn't any better for it, but certainly it is a defense.
For there to be any significant number of defenses they have to happen where the crime is. Crime is where the gangs are. And gang members are armed and far more likely to need a defense than the lawful. So they are where the crime is and have a need. Also if you believe there are a significant number of defenses you have to believe most go unreported. Lawful people report crimes, criminals do not for obvious reasons.
Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.
Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.
The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.
Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.
Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.
When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.
Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.
“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”
Mather fired once, and then started running.
“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”
Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.
Carl might be a P.O.S. gang member and a heroin user and/or dealer, but being attacked at 15 to 1 odds with metal pipes and baseball bats, I agree he feared for his life and I am comfortable with his claim of self defense.
And you might be surprised at how supportive the NRA is of young Carl in this.
I agree with 2aguy that nothing in this article or thread demonstrates that this is the norm for self defense, though.
Certainly it is a defense. Society isn't any better for it, but certainly it is a defense.
For there to be any significant number of defenses they have to happen where the crime is. Crime is where the gangs are. And gang members are armed and far more likely to need a defense than the lawful. So they are where the crime is and have a need. Also if you believe there are a significant number of defenses you have to believe most go unreported. Lawful people report crimes, criminals do not for obvious reasons.
Society is not?
If the murder had taken place as planned you would have 15 people who were now murderers.
That would not be a positive development.
Instead the 14 surviving attackers have learned that trying to murder people is very dangerous.
"Where the crime is"? What does that mean?
The two cases I know of personally were just on the city streets, one guy biking home from work and another leaving a gun store (not the brightest of criminals).
Crime is not limited to where gangs are.
NOt all gang members are armed, certainly not at all times.
Most do go unreported.
Lawful people often don't report crimes that are stopped because there is nothing to report.
Of the two cases I have know of personally only one reported it, because the defender was injured before he could get his gun out.
IN the other case, nothing happened. He showed his gun to the "urban yoots" and they moved on. There was nothing to report. Some "urban yoots" made some verbal threats.
Like the cops are really going to track them down and prosecute that.
Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.
Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.
The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.
Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.
Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.
When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.
Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.
“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”
Mather fired once, and then started running.
“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”
Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.
Carl might be a P.O.S. gang member and a heroin user and/or dealer, but being attacked at 15 to 1 odds with metal pipes and baseball bats, I agree he feared for his life and I am comfortable with his claim of self defense.
And you might be surprised at how supportive the NRA is of young Carl in this.
I agree with 2aguy that nothing in this article or thread demonstrates that this is the norm for self defense, though.
Certainly it is a defense. Society isn't any better for it, but certainly it is a defense.
For there to be any significant number of defenses they have to happen where the crime is. Crime is where the gangs are. And gang members are armed and far more likely to need a defense than the lawful. So they are where the crime is and have a need. Also if you believe there are a significant number of defenses you have to believe most go unreported. Lawful people report crimes, criminals do not for obvious reasons.
Society is not?
If the murder had taken place as planned you would have 15 people who were now murderers.
That would not be a positive development.
Instead the 14 surviving attackers have learned that trying to murder people is very dangerous.
"Where the crime is"? What does that mean?
The two cases I know of personally were just on the city streets, one guy biking home from work and another leaving a gun store (not the brightest of criminals).
Crime is not limited to where gangs are.
NOt all gang members are armed, certainly not at all times.
Most do go unreported.
Lawful people often don't report crimes that are stopped because there is nothing to report.
Of the two cases I have know of personally only one reported it, because the defender was injured before he could get his gun out.
IN the other case, nothing happened. He showed his gun to the "urban yoots" and they moved on. There was nothing to report. Some "urban yoots" made some verbal threats.
Like the cops are really going to track them down and prosecute that.
So you only know 2? That doesn't support the claim of so many. Are you in a high crime area? Are you involved in criminal activity?
Here is an example of the kind of defense that are the majority of gun defenses. One gang member defending himself against other gang members.
APD: 10 accused in beating that led to fatal self-defense shooting
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — When a group of teenage boys and young adults who police say are in the Westside Locos gang decided to attack one of their own with baseball bats and muffler pipes last month, it didn’t end well.
Not only was one of them killed in the attack, but now many have been arrested and charged in the ambush.
The teen they attacked survived, but only because he shot and killed one of his assailants in self-defense, according to police.
Police have arrested six people — Ivan Veleta, 16, Eyzea Zamora, 16, Derek Muniz, 20, Ricardo Mones, 21, Juaquin Portillo, 21, and Kayleen Tatum, 21. And they have filed arrest warrants for four others — Jeremiah Abalos, 16, Jose Barron, 17, Raymond Prieto, 18, and Esmeralda Chavez, 21, none of whom had been arrested by Thursday evening.
Officers were called to a home near Sage and Snow Vista SW on Dec. 11 and found 20-year-old Joshua Garcia dead of a single gunshot wound to the chest. After interviewing witnesses, detectives learned that Garcia and up to 14 of his friends, all alleged Westside Loco gang members, had reportedly ambushed another gang member, 16-year-old Carl Mather, and bludgeoned him.
When detectives tracked down Mather, he had cuts all over his head and broken front teeth.
Mather told officers Garcia owed him money for heroin and he went to collect the debt at Garcia’s house on Dec. 11.
“A large group of boys began jumping over fences, running from the back yard and running up to the house from the street, attacking Carl,” a detective wrote in the complaint. “Carl stated he was trying to get to his gun to defend himself but the boys were on top of him, striking, hitting, kicking and beating him with metal pipes and bats.”
Mather fired once, and then started running.
“Carl stated he was in fear for his life because he thought he was going to be killed,” the detective wrote. “He was trying to wipe the blood from his face because he could not see out of his right eye.”
Everyone who has been arrested or is wanted in the incident is facing charges of aggravated battery with a weapon causing great bodily harm, robbery, kidnapping, attempt to commit a violent felony, assault with the intent to commit a violent felony and conspiracy, according to court records.
Carl might be a P.O.S. gang member and a heroin user and/or dealer, but being attacked at 15 to 1 odds with metal pipes and baseball bats, I agree he feared for his life and I am comfortable with his claim of self defense.
And you might be surprised at how supportive the NRA is of young Carl in this.
I agree with 2aguy that nothing in this article or thread demonstrates that this is the norm for self defense, though.
Certainly it is a defense. Society isn't any better for it, but certainly it is a defense.
For there to be any significant number of defenses they have to happen where the crime is. Crime is where the gangs are. And gang members are armed and far more likely to need a defense than the lawful. So they are where the crime is and have a need. Also if you believe there are a significant number of defenses you have to believe most go unreported. Lawful people report crimes, criminals do not for obvious reasons.
Society is not?
If the murder had taken place as planned you would have 15 people who were now murderers.
That would not be a positive development.
Instead the 14 surviving attackers have learned that trying to murder people is very dangerous.
"Where the crime is"? What does that mean?
The two cases I know of personally were just on the city streets, one guy biking home from work and another leaving a gun store (not the brightest of criminals).
Crime is not limited to where gangs are.
NOt all gang members are armed, certainly not at all times.
Most do go unreported.
Lawful people often don't report crimes that are stopped because there is nothing to report.
Of the two cases I have know of personally only one reported it, because the defender was injured before he could get his gun out.
IN the other case, nothing happened. He showed his gun to the "urban yoots" and they moved on. There was nothing to report. Some "urban yoots" made some verbal threats.
Like the cops are really going to track them down and prosecute that.
So you only know 2? That doesn't support the claim of so many. Are you in a high crime area? Are you involved in criminal activity?
Nope. Middle class white guy with middle class white guy friends.
Seems like a lot to me.
The only reason the one reported it was because he ended in at the ER for his injuries.
THe other? LIke I said, nothing to report.
Carl might be a P.O.S. gang member and a heroin user and/or dealer, but being attacked at 15 to 1 odds with metal pipes and baseball bats, I agree he feared for his life and I am comfortable with his claim of self defense.
And you might be surprised at how supportive the NRA is of young Carl in this.
I agree with 2aguy that nothing in this article or thread demonstrates that this is the norm for self defense, though.
Certainly it is a defense. Society isn't any better for it, but certainly it is a defense.
For there to be any significant number of defenses they have to happen where the crime is. Crime is where the gangs are. And gang members are armed and far more likely to need a defense than the lawful. So they are where the crime is and have a need. Also if you believe there are a significant number of defenses you have to believe most go unreported. Lawful people report crimes, criminals do not for obvious reasons.
Society is not?
If the murder had taken place as planned you would have 15 people who were now murderers.
That would not be a positive development.
Instead the 14 surviving attackers have learned that trying to murder people is very dangerous.
"Where the crime is"? What does that mean?
The two cases I know of personally were just on the city streets, one guy biking home from work and another leaving a gun store (not the brightest of criminals).
Crime is not limited to where gangs are.
NOt all gang members are armed, certainly not at all times.
Most do go unreported.
Lawful people often don't report crimes that are stopped because there is nothing to report.
Of the two cases I have know of personally only one reported it, because the defender was injured before he could get his gun out.
IN the other case, nothing happened. He showed his gun to the "urban yoots" and they moved on. There was nothing to report. Some "urban yoots" made some verbal threats.
Like the cops are really going to track them down and prosecute that.
So you only know 2? That doesn't support the claim of so many. Are you in a high crime area? Are you involved in criminal activity?
Nope. Middle class white guy with middle class white guy friends.
Seems like a lot to me.
The only reason the one reported it was because he ended in at the ER for his injuries.
THe other? LIke I said, nothing to report.
Are you very old? Some claim as many as 2.5 million defenses per year. If that were the case almost ever gun owner would have one over the last 30 years. So no, two does not support the claims of there being so many. That is why they must be happening where you are not, high crime areas. If you were a gang member you would probably know many who claim a defense.
Certainly it is a defense. Society isn't any better for it, but certainly it is a defense.
For there to be any significant number of defenses they have to happen where the crime is. Crime is where the gangs are. And gang members are armed and far more likely to need a defense than the lawful. So they are where the crime is and have a need. Also if you believe there are a significant number of defenses you have to believe most go unreported. Lawful people report crimes, criminals do not for obvious reasons.
Society is not?
If the murder had taken place as planned you would have 15 people who were now murderers.
That would not be a positive development.
Instead the 14 surviving attackers have learned that trying to murder people is very dangerous.
"Where the crime is"? What does that mean?
The two cases I know of personally were just on the city streets, one guy biking home from work and another leaving a gun store (not the brightest of criminals).
Crime is not limited to where gangs are.
NOt all gang members are armed, certainly not at all times.
Most do go unreported.
Lawful people often don't report crimes that are stopped because there is nothing to report.
Of the two cases I have know of personally only one reported it, because the defender was injured before he could get his gun out.
IN the other case, nothing happened. He showed his gun to the "urban yoots" and they moved on. There was nothing to report. Some "urban yoots" made some verbal threats.
Like the cops are really going to track them down and prosecute that.
So you only know 2? That doesn't support the claim of so many. Are you in a high crime area? Are you involved in criminal activity?
Nope. Middle class white guy with middle class white guy friends.
Seems like a lot to me.
The only reason the one reported it was because he ended in at the ER for his injuries.
THe other? LIke I said, nothing to report.
Are you very old? Some claim as many as 2.5 million defenses per year. If that were the case almost ever gun owner would have one over the last 30 years. So no, two does not support the claims of there being so many. That is why they must be happening where you are not, high crime areas. If you were a gang member you would probably know many who claim a defense.
The two people in question are close personal friends, or were in the past.
I can assure you that most people who know them do NOT know that they had to pull guns on thugs in the past in self defense. It is not something they quickly or regularly volunteer.
It is quite possible that I know many other people who have done similar self defenses who have just not shared their stories with me.
Society is not?
If the murder had taken place as planned you would have 15 people who were now murderers.
That would not be a positive development.
Instead the 14 surviving attackers have learned that trying to murder people is very dangerous.
"Where the crime is"? What does that mean?
The two cases I know of personally were just on the city streets, one guy biking home from work and another leaving a gun store (not the brightest of criminals).
Crime is not limited to where gangs are.
NOt all gang members are armed, certainly not at all times.
Most do go unreported.
Lawful people often don't report crimes that are stopped because there is nothing to report.
Of the two cases I have know of personally only one reported it, because the defender was injured before he could get his gun out.
IN the other case, nothing happened. He showed his gun to the "urban yoots" and they moved on. There was nothing to report. Some "urban yoots" made some verbal threats.
Like the cops are really going to track them down and prosecute that.
So you only know 2? That doesn't support the claim of so many. Are you in a high crime area? Are you involved in criminal activity?
Nope. Middle class white guy with middle class white guy friends.
Seems like a lot to me.
The only reason the one reported it was because he ended in at the ER for his injuries.
THe other? LIke I said, nothing to report.
Are you very old? Some claim as many as 2.5 million defenses per year. If that were the case almost ever gun owner would have one over the last 30 years. So no, two does not support the claims of there being so many. That is why they must be happening where you are not, high crime areas. If you were a gang member you would probably know many who claim a defense.
The two people in question are close personal friends, or were in the past.
I can assure you that most people who know them do NOT know that they had to pull guns on thugs in the past in self defense. It is not something they quickly or regularly volunteer.
It is quite possible that I know many other people who have done similar self defenses who have just not shared their stories with me.
Possible, but unlikely if you are in a low crime area. You need a crime to defense. How many gun owners do you know?
So you only know 2? That doesn't support the claim of so many. Are you in a high crime area? Are you involved in criminal activity?
Nope. Middle class white guy with middle class white guy friends.
Seems like a lot to me.
The only reason the one reported it was because he ended in at the ER for his injuries.
THe other? LIke I said, nothing to report.
Are you very old? Some claim as many as 2.5 million defenses per year. If that were the case almost ever gun owner would have one over the last 30 years. So no, two does not support the claims of there being so many. That is why they must be happening where you are not, high crime areas. If you were a gang member you would probably know many who claim a defense.
The two people in question are close personal friends, or were in the past.
I can assure you that most people who know them do NOT know that they had to pull guns on thugs in the past in self defense. It is not something they quickly or regularly volunteer.
It is quite possible that I know many other people who have done similar self defenses who have just not shared their stories with me.
Possible, but unlikely if you are in a low crime area. You need a crime to defense. How many gun owners do you know?
What do you base that on? Low crime does not mean no crime. People travel about. They go to work. They shop. They eat out. IN doing so they go to other areas.
I know several gun owners. MOst of them live in nice Middle Class suburbs.
Many people I know, I don't know if they own guns or not.
Nope. Middle class white guy with middle class white guy friends.
Seems like a lot to me.
The only reason the one reported it was because he ended in at the ER for his injuries.
THe other? LIke I said, nothing to report.
Are you very old? Some claim as many as 2.5 million defenses per year. If that were the case almost ever gun owner would have one over the last 30 years. So no, two does not support the claims of there being so many. That is why they must be happening where you are not, high crime areas. If you were a gang member you would probably know many who claim a defense.
The two people in question are close personal friends, or were in the past.
I can assure you that most people who know them do NOT know that they had to pull guns on thugs in the past in self defense. It is not something they quickly or regularly volunteer.
It is quite possible that I know many other people who have done similar self defenses who have just not shared their stories with me.
Possible, but unlikely if you are in a low crime area. You need a crime to defense. How many gun owners do you know?
What do you base that on? Low crime does not mean no crime. People travel about. They go to work. They shop. They eat out. IN doing so they go to other areas.
I know several gun owners. MOst of them live in nice Middle Class suburbs.
Many people I know, I don't know if they own guns or not.
If you live in a high crime area you have more opportunities for defense obviously.
You don't, hence why you know few with defenses.
Are you very old? Some claim as many as 2.5 million defenses per year. If that were the case almost ever gun owner would have one over the last 30 years. So no, two does not support the claims of there being so many. That is why they must be happening where you are not, high crime areas. If you were a gang member you would probably know many who claim a defense.
The two people in question are close personal friends, or were in the past.
I can assure you that most people who know them do NOT know that they had to pull guns on thugs in the past in self defense. It is not something they quickly or regularly volunteer.
It is quite possible that I know many other people who have done similar self defenses who have just not shared their stories with me.
Possible, but unlikely if you are in a low crime area. You need a crime to defense. How many gun owners do you know?
What do you base that on? Low crime does not mean no crime. People travel about. They go to work. They shop. They eat out. IN doing so they go to other areas.
I know several gun owners. MOst of them live in nice Middle Class suburbs.
Many people I know, I don't know if they own guns or not.
If you live in a high crime area you have more opportunities for defense obviously.
You don't, hence why you know few with defenses.
That still doesn't explain why you assume that no one else in my circle of contacts have defended themselves.
NOr really your point about high crime areas.
Surely you don't want people who live in high crime areas to have less rights than middle class people.
The two people in question are close personal friends, or were in the past.
I can assure you that most people who know them do NOT know that they had to pull guns on thugs in the past in self defense. It is not something they quickly or regularly volunteer.
It is quite possible that I know many other people who have done similar self defenses who have just not shared their stories with me.
Possible, but unlikely if you are in a low crime area. You need a crime to defense. How many gun owners do you know?
What do you base that on? Low crime does not mean no crime. People travel about. They go to work. They shop. They eat out. IN doing so they go to other areas.
I know several gun owners. MOst of them live in nice Middle Class suburbs.
Many people I know, I don't know if they own guns or not.
If you live in a high crime area you have more opportunities for defense obviously.
You don't, hence why you know few with defenses.
That still doesn't explain why you assume that no one else in my circle of contacts have defended themselves.
NOr really your point about high crime areas.
Surely you don't want people who live in high crime areas to have less rights than middle class people.
No. But the people most likely to have a defense are in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity.
Those of us in low crime areas simply don't have enough opportunities for defense to support the huge number. Now I don't believe the numbers are anywhere near that high, but if so the majority would have to be in high crime areas. Can't have a defense without an attempted crime.
Possible, but unlikely if you are in a low crime area. You need a crime to defense. How many gun owners do you know?
What do you base that on? Low crime does not mean no crime. People travel about. They go to work. They shop. They eat out. IN doing so they go to other areas.
I know several gun owners. MOst of them live in nice Middle Class suburbs.
Many people I know, I don't know if they own guns or not.
If you live in a high crime area you have more opportunities for defense obviously.
You don't, hence why you know few with defenses.
That still doesn't explain why you assume that no one else in my circle of contacts have defended themselves.
NOr really your point about high crime areas.
Surely you don't want people who live in high crime areas to have less rights than middle class people.
No. But the people most likely to have a defense are in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity.
Those of us in low crime areas simply don't have enough opportunities for defense to support the huge number. Now I don't believe the numbers are anywhere near that high, but if so the majority would have to be in high crime areas. Can't have a defense without an attempted crime.
Your assumption that those who live in high crime areas are involved in criminal activity is unsupported.
I have never seen any study or research to suggest that a MAJORITY of people living in high crime areas are involved in criminal activities.
My wife used to live in a high crime area when she was younger. Her apartment was repeatedly robbed. She was not involved in criminal activity.
She could not afford a gun to defend herself back then, as she was just a starving college student.
What do you base that on? Low crime does not mean no crime. People travel about. They go to work. They shop. They eat out. IN doing so they go to other areas.
I know several gun owners. MOst of them live in nice Middle Class suburbs.
Many people I know, I don't know if they own guns or not.
If you live in a high crime area you have more opportunities for defense obviously.
You don't, hence why you know few with defenses.
That still doesn't explain why you assume that no one else in my circle of contacts have defended themselves.
NOr really your point about high crime areas.
Surely you don't want people who live in high crime areas to have less rights than middle class people.
No. But the people most likely to have a defense are in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity.
Those of us in low crime areas simply don't have enough opportunities for defense to support the huge number. Now I don't believe the numbers are anywhere near that high, but if so the majority would have to be in high crime areas. Can't have a defense without an attempted crime.
Your assumption that those who live in high crime areas are involved in criminal activity is unsupported.
I have never seen any study or research to suggest that a MAJORITY of people living in high crime areas are involved in criminal activities.
My wife used to live in a high crime area when she was younger. Her apartment was repeatedly robbed. She was not involved in criminal activity.
She could not afford a gun to defend herself back then, as she was just a starving college student.
That isn't my assumption. Those in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity are the most likely to have a defense. Gang members are always shooting at each other. Criminals tend to have cash which is a great target for other criminals.
If you live in a high crime area you have more opportunities for defense obviously.
You don't, hence why you know few with defenses.
That still doesn't explain why you assume that no one else in my circle of contacts have defended themselves.
NOr really your point about high crime areas.
Surely you don't want people who live in high crime areas to have less rights than middle class people.
No. But the people most likely to have a defense are in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity.
Those of us in low crime areas simply don't have enough opportunities for defense to support the huge number. Now I don't believe the numbers are anywhere near that high, but if so the majority would have to be in high crime areas. Can't have a defense without an attempted crime.
Your assumption that those who live in high crime areas are involved in criminal activity is unsupported.
I have never seen any study or research to suggest that a MAJORITY of people living in high crime areas are involved in criminal activities.
My wife used to live in a high crime area when she was younger. Her apartment was repeatedly robbed. She was not involved in criminal activity.
She could not afford a gun to defend herself back then, as she was just a starving college student.
That isn't my assumption. Those in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity are the most likely to have a defense. Gang members are always shooting at each other. Criminals tend to have cash which is a great target for other criminals.
Everyone has cash. Criminals tend to target easy targets, not people who are willing or able to fight back.
That still doesn't explain why you assume that no one else in my circle of contacts have defended themselves.
NOr really your point about high crime areas.
Surely you don't want people who live in high crime areas to have less rights than middle class people.
No. But the people most likely to have a defense are in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity.
Those of us in low crime areas simply don't have enough opportunities for defense to support the huge number. Now I don't believe the numbers are anywhere near that high, but if so the majority would have to be in high crime areas. Can't have a defense without an attempted crime.
Your assumption that those who live in high crime areas are involved in criminal activity is unsupported.
I have never seen any study or research to suggest that a MAJORITY of people living in high crime areas are involved in criminal activities.
My wife used to live in a high crime area when she was younger. Her apartment was repeatedly robbed. She was not involved in criminal activity.
She could not afford a gun to defend herself back then, as she was just a starving college student.
That isn't my assumption. Those in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity are the most likely to have a defense. Gang members are always shooting at each other. Criminals tend to have cash which is a great target for other criminals.
Everyone has cash. Criminals tend to target easy targets, not people who are willing or able to fight back.
I almost never have cash. Gang on gang crime is huge.
Gang fact
Yes these guys are the most likely to have a DGU.
60% are dead or in prison by age 20.
The average life expectancy of an active gang member is:
20 years, 5 months.
No. But the people most likely to have a defense are in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity.
Those of us in low crime areas simply don't have enough opportunities for defense to support the huge number. Now I don't believe the numbers are anywhere near that high, but if so the majority would have to be in high crime areas. Can't have a defense without an attempted crime.
Your assumption that those who live in high crime areas are involved in criminal activity is unsupported.
I have never seen any study or research to suggest that a MAJORITY of people living in high crime areas are involved in criminal activities.
My wife used to live in a high crime area when she was younger. Her apartment was repeatedly robbed. She was not involved in criminal activity.
She could not afford a gun to defend herself back then, as she was just a starving college student.
That isn't my assumption. Those in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity are the most likely to have a defense. Gang members are always shooting at each other. Criminals tend to have cash which is a great target for other criminals.
Everyone has cash. Criminals tend to target easy targets, not people who are willing or able to fight back.
I almost never have cash. Gang on gang crime is huge.
Gang fact
Yes these guys are the most likely to have a DGU.
60% are dead or in prison by age 20.
The average life expectancy of an active gang member is:
20 years, 5 months.
Perhaps per capita, but that hardly means they are the "most" in absolute numbers.
There are 1.4 million gang members, out of a US population of over 300 million.
Nor do I see how gang members shooting each other is a reason to dismiss DGU by everyone else.
Your assumption that those who live in high crime areas are involved in criminal activity is unsupported.
I have never seen any study or research to suggest that a MAJORITY of people living in high crime areas are involved in criminal activities.
My wife used to live in a high crime area when she was younger. Her apartment was repeatedly robbed. She was not involved in criminal activity.
She could not afford a gun to defend herself back then, as she was just a starving college student.
That isn't my assumption. Those in high crime areas and involved in criminal activity are the most likely to have a defense. Gang members are always shooting at each other. Criminals tend to have cash which is a great target for other criminals.
Everyone has cash. Criminals tend to target easy targets, not people who are willing or able to fight back.
I almost never have cash. Gang on gang crime is huge.
Gang fact
Yes these guys are the most likely to have a DGU.
60% are dead or in prison by age 20.
The average life expectancy of an active gang member is:
20 years, 5 months.
Perhaps per capita, but that hardly means they are the "most" in absolute numbers.
There are 1.4 million gang members, out of a US population of over 300 million.
Nor do I see how gang members shooting each other is a reason to dismiss DGU by everyone else.
Yes and every one has a huge target on their back. They are armed and in high crime areas. And like the examples I posted they all look at it as a defense.
Not dismissing all other dgu, but these would have to be the majority.
