Gay Cowboy Loses Everything When His Partner Dies

[jAZ]

I disagree. Marriage is for the sake of the couple, their progeny, and ultimately the state.

As would civil unions for all.

 

[Annie]

As would civil unions for all.

I would disagree with †hat.

 

[Kagom]

Damn, how old are ¥ou? I really wish the newbies, at least those under 25 would state so.

You must realize that this forum may very well be an ugly microcosm of what you will deal with. A voice here and there in support. Some more or less neutral and some will hate you.

Oh, hehe...I'm Eighteen years old.

 

[Kagom]

Listen Kagom, I'm not trying to piss you off, or say hurtfull things to you. All I'm trying to do is reason with you.

You say you "don't have a problem". Well son, you do. That's the simple truth. Wanting to suck another man's dick, or bury your johnson up his crap hole is WRONG! It's SICK... in the HEAD! Somewhere along the line some wires got crossed in your head. Nature has made a mistake. But just like if you were born with three arms, you could get one arm cut off as a cure, so can you get mental help to cure you from homosexuality. You have to first admit you're sick! Stop the denial.

You are at this point completely ignoring the fact the homosexuality is wrong. A practice that is in complete opposite with nature. It's freakish behavior. There is NOTHING NORMAL about it, and don't tell me it is.

I've been reasoning with you, sir. For you, it is wrong and sick in the head. For me, it's completely normal and natural.

It isn't exactly what nature intended, but don't compare being gay to having a third arm. It's nothing like that. Homosexuality isn't a mental disorder that can be cured. If it could, don't you think a lot of people who have gone through the faux reparative therapies over the ages would've changed? Honestly, don' you think they would've? If it were truly something that would've been changed, then they would. But the simple fact is they haven't been.

I'm not ignoring any fact. I think homosexuality is just as right as heterosexuality. It may be what nature intended and it may not be. I think it's a sort of population control, but that's me. I think nature intended for me to be this way for some reason. It is normal for me and to me.

 

[dilloduck]

Very good questions to ask!

I do feel safer, honestly. I'm not entirely sure why, but I think it's because now I can be more "me" around people.

Some of them have (my relationship with my mom deteriorated more). Some of them haven't (because I haven't completely come out to my family, just my mom).

I'm proud to be gay because I'm now being who I am and I'm not hiding it. With my family, I'm not around them enough to just go "Hey, I like guys. So, when's our next family dinner?" I think I am going to come out to my family when I feel the time is right (I'm thinking a little bit after I get into college).

Maybe you should consider the fact that you have hated yourself more than anyone and what you feared was largely a product of your own imagination.

Generation after generation has had to step up to the plate and be themselves. People of religion stepped up to the plate to proclaim how they felt and were "abused" in FAR greater numbers than homosexuals have. I don't think I have to tell what kind of abuse I am talking about so be proud if you like but it may not get you very far in relation to what others have done before you."Coming out" is nothing more daring than what millions of others have done with FAR greater consequences.

So you're a homosexual---In MANY places no one even gives a damn anymore. Lose the victim and oppressed label and you will get less hassle.
And NO--it's not fair. Ask any REAL victim if it feels fair.

 

[jAZ]

I would disagree with †hat.

In what way specifically would a state sponsored civil union between a man and woman fail to be for the "sake of the couple, their progeny, and ultimately the state"?

From the states perspective, they are legally identical procedures with legally identical outcomes.

 

[jAZ]

In what way specifically would a state sponsored civil union between a man and woman fail to be for the "sake of the couple, their progeny, and ultimately the state"?

From the states perspective, they are legally identical procedures with legally identical outcomes.

Particularly if their church will sanction their union by "marriage".

 

[Kagom]

Maybe you should consider the fact that you have hated yourself more than anyone and what you feared was largely a product of your own imagination.

Generation after generation has had to step up to the plate and be themselves. People of religion stepped up to the plate to proclaim how they felt and were "abused" in FAR greater numbers than homosexuals have. I don't think I have to tell what kind of abuse I am talking about so be proud if you like but it may not get you very far in relation to what others have done before you."Coming out" is nothing more daring than what millions of others have done with FAR greater consequences.

So you're a homosexual---In MANY places no one even gives a damn anymore. Lose the victim and oppressed label and you will get less hassle.
And NO--it's not fair. Ask any REAL victim if it feels fair.

I know what kind of abuse you're talking about. I knoe people who've been raped with coathangers, people who've been beaten and abused.

Coming out seems dangerous depending on the area you live. I overestimated my situation only to find out that it was going to be okay. Now, had I still lived in Vicksburg, Mississippi, it probably would've been a very bad thing to do.

I'm not holding a victim and oppressed label. I don't feel victimized and oppressed. Other homosexuals do. I've had a little bit of abuse in my life, but nothing that's very serious. I know that it's not fair at all.

 

[007]

I've been reasoning with you, sir. For you, it is wrong and sick in the head. For me, it's completely normal and natural.

The alcoholic thinks it's quite natural for him to be drunk too. But he's still sick, as you are.

It isn't exactly what nature intended, but don't compare being gay to having a third arm.

Why not? Both are medical abnormalities. One is physical, the other mental.

It's nothing like that. Homosexuality isn't a mental disorder that can be cured.

As long as you continue lying to yourself, no one can help you. Just like the drunk, you first have to admit you're sick.

If it could, don't you think a lot of people who have gone through the faux reparative therapies over the ages would've changed? Honestly, don' you think they would've? If it were truly something that would've been changed, then they would. But the simple fact is they haven't been.

You're wrong again son...

Study: Some Gays Can Go Straight

Culture/Society Breaking News News
Source: AP
Published: 05/09/2001 Author: Malcolm Ritter
Posted on 05/09/2001 0503 PDT by Pokey78

NEW ORLEANS (AP) — An explosive new study says some gay people can turn straight if they really want to.

That conclusion clashes with that of major mental health organizations, which say that sexual orientation is fixed and that so-called reparative therapy may actually be harmful.

Gay rights activists attacked the study, and an academic critic noted that many of the 200 ``ex-gays'' who participated were referred by religious groups that condemn homosexuality.

Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, a psychiatry professor at Columbia University who led the study, said he cannot estimate what percentage of highly motivated gay people can change their sexual orientation.

But he said the research ``shows some people can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge that.''

He is scheduled to present his findings Wednesday in New Orleans at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, and said he plans to submit his work to a psychiatric journal for publication.

Presentations for the meeting were chosen by a committee of the association. Selection does not imply endorsement by the association, said John Blamphin, director of public affairs for the association.

The issue has been hotly debated in the scientific community and among religious groups, some of which contend gays can become heterosexuals through prayer and counseling.

Major mental health groups say nobody knows what causes a person's sexual orientation. Theories tracing homosexuality to troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development have been discredited, the psychiatric association says. The American Psychological Association says most scientists think sexual orientation probably comes from a complex interaction including biological and environmental factors.

Spitzer spearheaded the APA's 1973 decision to remove homosexuality from its list of mental disorders. At the time, he said homosexuality does not meet the criteria for a mental disorder, and he called for more research to determine whether some people can change their sexuality.

Spitzer, who said he does not offer reparative therapy and began his study as a skeptic, said the research was paid for out of his department's funds.

He conducted 45-minute telephone interviews with 200 people, 143 of them men, who claimed they had changed their orientation from gay to heterosexual. The average age of those interviewed was 43.

They answered about 60 questions about their sexual feelings and behavior before and after their efforts to change. Those efforts had begun about 14 years before the interviews for the men and 12 years for the women.

Most said they had used more than one strategy to change their orientation. About half said the most helpful step was work with a mental health professional, most commonly a psychologist. About a third cited a support group, and fewer mentioned such aids as books and mentoring by a heterosexual.

Spitzer concluded that 66 percent of the men and 44 percent of the women had arrived at what he called good heterosexual functioning.

That term was defined as being in a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year, getting enough satisfaction from the emotional relationship with their partner to rate at least seven on a 10-point scale, having satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thinking of somebody of the same sex during heterosexual sex.

In addition, 89 percent of men and 95 percent of women said they were bothered only slightly, or not at all, by unwanted homosexual feelings. Only 11 percent of the men and 37 percent of the women reported a complete absence of homosexual indicators, including same-sex attraction.

Psychologist Douglas Haldeman, who is on the clinical faculty of the University of Washington and has published evaluations of reparative therapy, said the study offers no convincing evidence of change.

He said there is no credible scientific evidence that suggests sexual orientation can be changed, ``and this study doesn't prove that either.''

He also said the participants appeared unusually skewed toward religious conservatives and people treated by therapists ``with a strong anti-gay bias.'' Such participants might think that being a homosexual is bad and feel pressured to claim they were no longer gay, Haldeman said.

Some 43 percent of the sample had been referred to Spitzer by ``ex-gay ministries'' that offer programs to gay people who seek to change, organizations Haldeman said are chiefly sponsored by religious conservatives. An additional 23 percent were referred by the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, which says most of its members consider homosexuality a developmental disorder.

David Elliot, a spokesman for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in Washington, also criticized the study because of the main sources of its participants.

``The sample is terrible, totally tainted, totally unrepresentative of the gay and lesbian community,'' he said.

Spitzer said he has no proof that participants were honest. But he said several findings suggest their statements cannot be dismissed out of hand.

For example, he said, participants had no trouble offering detailed descriptions of their behavior. Spitzer also said the gradual nature of the change they reported indicates ``it is not a simple made-up story.''

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3af933d76633.htm

I'm not ignoring any fact. I think homosexuality is just as right as heterosexuality.

This is where you're completely off your rocker. There is NOTHING right about homosexuality. I know it, you know it, and the man in the moon knows it. If were as casual and normal as you think, you should be able to walk up to any man you see and say, "I want you to work over my ass". Well... if you said that to me, you'd be speaking without your two front teeth.

It may be what nature intended and it may not be. I think it's a sort of population control, but that's me. I think nature intended for me to be this way for some reason. It is normal for me and to me.

It's not what nature intended for anyone, so don't make quite little excuses. You're sick. Just get help and quite trying to convince people you're normal. No one will EVER say that. And even if they did, they'd be doing it because they just want to lie to you to make you feel good, coming from a liberal, to a liberal.

 

[dilloduck]

I know what kind of abuse you're talking about. I knoe people who've been raped with coathangers, people who've been beaten and abused.

Coming out seems dangerous depending on the area you live. I overestimated my situation only to find out that it was going to be okay. Now, had I still lived in Vicksburg, Mississippi, it probably would've been a very bad thing to do.

I'm not holding a victim and oppressed label. I don't feel victimized and oppressed. Other homosexuals do. I've had a little bit of abuse in my life, but nothing that's very serious. I know that it's not fair at all.

It's good you have been treated better than the MILLIONS of people who have been mocked incessantly for how they looked--the MILLIONS of people who have been chased from their country because of their race--the MILLIONS who have been tortured for expressing political ideas and the MILLIONS who have been killed for expressing a religious preference.
Your worst enemy is you kid. (I'm 54--I can call you a kid. )

I'd concentrate on being a giving person if I were you and stick the rest of the shit on a back burner somewhere.

 

[Kagom]

But there's a difference between being alcoholic and being gay. One entails pain for everyone at most of the time and the other doesn't.

I'm not lying to myself. I'm very much sure of that. You can continue to claim I am, but you don't know that for yourself.

Freerepublic, the conservative news forum. I'm bound to believe that any source they pull out is going to be biased towards your beliefs. The only people who can become straight are the ones who are either not really gay and have managed to delude themselves to believe they are or they end up lying and faking things to remove stigma from life. Also, they don't have a random sample, they do a selected sample. That hurts the research very, very much. He did get his sources from convenient "Ex-gays", which makes his study seem even more likely to be correct. As much as I don't want to do this, http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/10/sexual.orientation/ It is CNN and they are going to be biased like your own news source.

It is casual and normal for me. I'm not saying anything outside of MYSELF. I believe it is normal for most gay people.

It is what nature intended for me. I'm just going to say that now because you obviously hate hearing that. Immature, isn't it? But you know what, in the end, I believe that it was what nature wanted for me.

By the way, if you actually knew more about me, you'd know I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservative either. I'm a political moderate. I have both liberal and conservative values. I don't care what people say to me to make me feel that it is normal and natural nor do I care what people say to make me feel the opposite. I'm going by what I think and what I feel.

 

[Kagom]

It's good you have been treated better than the MILLIONS of people who have been mocked incessantly for how they looked--the MILLIONS of people who have been chased from their country because of their race--the MILLIONS who have been tortured for expressing political ideas and the MILLIONS who have been killed for expressing a religious preference.
Your worst enemy is you kid. (I'm 54--I can call you a kid. )

I'd concentrate on being a giving person if I were you and stick the rest of the shit on a back burner somewhere.

Yes, I am very lucky, honestly. I have been beaten for being white, mocked for being overweight (back in my younger days), and been beaten because I've forgotten something.

But I still will say I"m lucky because I know I'm lucky. I feel for those who don't have the freedoms we do and who suffer so needlessly in genocides, ethnic cleansings, etc.

Yes, you can call me "kid". I'll take no offense ^.^

I am concentrating on being a person for the most of the time. Spend a day with me and you really wont' see me run around go "I'm queer and I'm here" or anything like that.

 

[007]

But there's a difference between being alcoholic and being gay. One entails pain for everyone at most of the time and the other doesn't.

I'm not lying to myself. I'm very much sure of that. You can continue to claim I am, but you don't know that for yourself.

Freerepublic, the conservative news forum. I'm bound to believe that any source they pull out is going to be biased towards your beliefs. The only people who can become straight are the ones who are either not really gay and have managed to delude themselves to believe they are or they end up lying and faking things to remove stigma from life. Also, they don't have a random sample, they do a selected sample. That hurts the research very, very much. He did get his sources from convenient "Ex-gays", which makes his study seem even more likely to be correct. As much as I don't want to do this, http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/10/sexual.orientation/ It is CNN and they are going to be biased like your own news source.

It is casual and normal for me. I'm not saying anything outside of MYSELF. I believe it is normal for most gay people.

It is what nature intended for me. I'm just going to say that now because you obviously hate hearing that. Immature, isn't it? But you know what, in the end, I believe that it was what nature wanted for me.

By the way, if you actually knew more about me, you'd know I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservative either. I'm a political moderate. I have both liberal and conservative values. I don't care what people say to me to make me feel that it is normal and natural nor do I care what people say to make me feel the opposite. I'm going by what I think and what I feel.

You're sick pard. Period. You deny it. That's fine. But that only goes to show you ALSO CHOOSE to deny your sickness. Whatever.

You and your kind are a very small minority. You will NEVER be universaly accepted as you may want. Those of us who are "normal" can deal with such small numbers. Just don't push it. Keep your sick sex in the closet and don't tell me how beautiful or natural it is, because that's all gloosy bullshit.

Get help man, before it's too late.

 

[Kagom]

You're sick pard. Period. You deny it. That's fine. But that only goes to show you ALSO CHOOSE to deny your sickness. Whatever.

You and your kind are a very small minority. You will NEVER be universaly accepted as you may want. Those of us who are "normal" can deal with such small numbers. Just don't push it. Keep your sick sex in the closet and don't tell me how beautiful or natural it is, because that's all gloosy bullshit.

Get help man, before it's too late.

I choose to deny that I'm sick because I am not sick. What does choosing to deny a lie have to do with anything said?

Yes, I am in a small minority. Am I asking to be universally accepted? No, not really. I couldn't give a rat's ass if the world accepts me or not. I'll continue being me whether it's wanted or not.

Just for ghits and shiggles: It's a beautiful and natural thing between two loving and consenting adults.

Get help for what? I've got no illnesses or disorders and am completely fine.

 

[007]

I choose to deny that I'm sick because I am not sick. What does choosing to deny a lie have to do with anything said?

Yes, I am in a small minority. Am I asking to be universally accepted? No, not really. I couldn't give a rat's ass if the world accepts me or not. I'll continue being me whether it's wanted or not.

Just for ghits and shiggles: It's a beautiful and natural thing between two loving and consenting adults.

Get help for what? I've got no illnesses or disorders and am completely fine.

Yeah I could go into the sordid details of what homo's do to each other, but I want to keep my dinner down, and I don't want to make anyone else here sick. Your queer actions are repugnant kagom. There is NOTHING natural or BEAUTIFUL about it. I certainly wouldn't call having shit on my cock from fucking another man up the ass BEAUTIFUL, and you're a sick pervert for saying it is.

Go find a faggot chat room to push this sick perverted shit in. You're making me sick.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I choose to deny that I'm sick because I am not sick. What does choosing to deny a lie have to do with anything said?

Yes, I am in a small minority. Am I asking to be universally accepted? No, not really. I couldn't give a rat's ass if the world accepts me or not. I'll continue being me whether it's wanted or not.

Just for ghits and shiggles: It's a beautiful and natural thing between two loving and consenting adults.

Get help for what? I've got no illnesses or disorders and am completely fine.

For only being 18, you certainly maintain your composure quite well. Can I ask what your relationship with your father is like?

 

[Kagom]

Pale Rider: You obviously have no clue about gay sex. You have never experienced or watched it. And you dont' want to and that's cool. No one is asking you to. What do you honestly know about it? It's beautiful to the individuals. Why don't you go to Psychotically Wound-up Conservative chatroom and push your own sick twisted agenda in. They'll love it, I'm sure.

The ClayTaurus: Thank you kindly. My relationship with my father is pretty good. It used to be strained, but we fixed it!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

The ClayTaurus: Thank you kindly. My relationship with my father is pretty good. It used to be strained, but we fixed it!

Are your parents together, or apart? And was it strained because of your sexual preference, or other reasons? Who'd you come out to first? Mom or Dad?

 

[Hobbit]

Pale Rider: You obviously have no clue about gay sex. You have never experienced or watched it. And you dont' want to and that's cool. No one is asking you to. What do you honestly know about it? It's beautiful to the individuals. Why don't you go to Psychotically Wound-up Conservative chatroom and push your own sick twisted agenda in. They'll love it, I'm sure.

Sorry, but subjective beauty isn't something I'm buying. I mean, you may think of gay sex as a beautiful thing, but then again, I'm sure Charles Manson and Jack the Ripper saw their work as beautiful, too. Now, while I try not to be as, to put it nicely, abrasive, as Pale, I can see gay sex as nothing short of a perversion of a beautiful gift God gave every human being as a wedding present. However, it is no more so a perversion of that gift than people who have sex more than they shake hands. I was raised to treat my body like a temple, so anybody, gay or straight, who uses it as a playground upsets me.

Bottom line: As a straight man, I find the idea of gay sex disgusting, but as a Christian, I see it as just another form of fornication, a product of lust.

 

[Kagom]

Are your parents together, or apart? And was it strained because of your sexual preference, or other reasons? Who'd you come out to first? Mom or Dad?

Parents divorced when I was three. It was strained because I wanted to go home to my mom. Dad doesn't know I'm gay, mom does.