General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again

[there4eyeM]

Your Congress, over many years and many administrations, at 'work', but for whom?

Themselves

They have been very effective, then. Most of them stay in office a long, long time.

 

[The Professor]

Well, the 'Conservatives' are certainly hoping that GM will go bankrupt, and would raise Bin Laden up from the dead, were they able. They really want to demonstrate their love of America.

I am a conservative and I want GM to succeed; however, success comes only when a company provides a product of competitive qualify at a competitive price. The public may by duped, at least temporarily, by creative advertising but only to a point. Eventually, the concepts of quality and price become the controlling factors in consumer choices. When government subsidizes a product, the true cost includes not only the purchase price but also the amount of the subsidy which is ultimately paid by the taxpayers.

You think that ALL bankruptcies are a bad thing but it ain't so, Joe. Bankruptcies have salvaged many failing companies by giving them a chance to reorganize and begin anew. Contrary to complaints from liberals, there is no evidence that jobs were saved by the GM bailout. If GM had gone through normal bankruptcy procedures, they would have been able to restructure the UAW wages and benefits package to make GM competitive again. Not only would everyone's job be saved but it is even possible that reduced manufacturing costs would have resulted in increased sales and seven more employment at GM. What, you didn't know that lower cost can lead to more sales and more employment?

Also, had GM gone completely down the tube no one knows how many total jobs would have been lost. My best guess would be …. none. If consumers cannot buy GM cars, they will purchase another type of vehicle which means other companies will have to hire more people. Consumers are not going to start walking and taking public transportation just because they cannot buy a GM car. When the government intervenes to help one car company, all other auto makers suffer as a result.

No one mourns the loss of all those blacksmiths jobs lost as a result of the automotive industry, and many big name companies have folded over the years due to changing consumer demand. If GM bites the dust, that's what is called the survival of the fittest. Competition – without government favoritism – is the best thing going for consumers. Only open and honest competition can assure the public of the best quality at the lowest possible price.

This concept of “too big to fail” is not just stupid, it is totally insane. Any company that cannot withstand competition deserves to fail. The bigger the company is, the more foolish it is to expect the public to support it with taxpayer-funded subsidies. Outright competition is something that should only be feared by business owners, never by consumers.

Actually, as a result of the bailout many dealerships were forced to close costing many people to lose their jobs, and 20,000 non-union workers at Delphi lost their health care and most of their retirement benefits. Those dealerships that had gained favor with the Obama administration were allowed to continue while others were terminated, and all union workers retained their plush benefits packages while those who were not union lost almost everything. That's Obama: reward your friends and punish your enemies.

But that is just my own humble opinion (OK, I lied about the humble part).

 

[paulitician]

They should have just done that in the first place, like so many advised them to do. Now look at all those Taxpayer $Billions wasted. And weren't they just telling us GM was doing fantastic? More lies form the Dear Leader i guess. What a shame.

 

[Mac1958]

This concept of “too big to fail” is not just stupid, it is totally insane. Any company that cannot withstand competition deserves to fail.

It's just not that simple.

Yes, in a vacuum, a business that cannot survive on its own is destined to fail. But the meaning of the phrase "too big to fail" is essentially that the ripple effect of a failure would cause more damage than a bailout. Both are lousy alternatives, it's not a black & white issue, but large companies create wide-ranging symbiotic relationships. It's about a lot more than just the company.

A reorganization would have been a better choice, but when GM went under there was simply no money to be found to support it. Credit markets were frozen, zero "velocity of money", and no one was willing to take a risk on anything.

What I don't like about the bailout is that GM bond holders were fucked over while the labor union got a nice big present. I don't know if there's a bigger example of crony capitalism. But the bailout itself may have been the only option.

.

 

[Interpol]

This thread basically says everything about what has changed with the Republican Party.

They're rooting for failure, based off of an ill-informed guy from the neo-conservative Club For Growth.

Former GM executive Bob Lutz scoffs at Forbes blog about second bankruptcy | Auto news | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

A Former GM Exec, the head of Forbes in Detroit, and Barclays say that the neo-con is getting it wrong, with the company showing $152 billion in assets, $110 billion in outlays.

Their share has grown 12% this month in what is predicted to be an on-coming rally after starting at $33 in November of 2010.

This is just another thing that Republicans these days need to do in order to make themselves feel good in their invented reality.

Yes, if the government were to sell its shares today, we'd see a loss, but they aren't, so we haven't. It's disturbing that the business cycle needs to be explained to conservatives nowadays.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Another obama success.

Right now, the federal government owns 500,000,000 shares of GM, or about 26% of the company. It would need to get about $53.00/share for these to break even on the bailout, but the stock closed at only $20.21/share on Tuesday. This left the government holding $10.1 billion worth of stock, and sitting on an unrealized loss of $16.4 billion.

Right now, the government’s GM stock is worth about 39% less than it was on November 17, 2010, when the company went public at $33.00/share. However, during the intervening time, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has risen by almost 20%, so GM shares have lost 49% of their value relative to the Dow.

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again - Forbes

But here's the REAL story....The TAXPAYERS are stuck holding the paper. And WE don't get shit even if the stock price does rise to a net gain.
Nice trick,huh? The fucking Obama regime buys up a huge chunk of GM with OUR money and all we get is stuck with the LOSS.

 

[paulitician]

Ya ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Government & Media have been telling us for several Months how wonderful GM is doing. All lies. Just another example of how susceptible most Americans are to Government/Media propaganda. It's so sad.

 

[driveby]

Ah yes, GM alive, Bin Laden dead. Both of which the 'Conservatives' hate.

That will be changed to Bin laden died a quick death, GM died a slow one.....

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ah yes, GM alive, Bin Laden dead. Both of which the 'Conservatives' hate.

GM is NOT 'alive'. It is foundering company which has reported sales increases for the two or three previous years. Those numbers are misleading. Most of GM's vehicles are being sold in China and Europe. Americans are not buying GM in the numbers anywhere close to those before 2008.
FactCheck.org : Is GM Becoming ‘China Motors’?
Outsourcer-In-Chief: Obama Of General Motors - Forbes
Before anyone wishes to crow about 'wonderful' GM, they should do their homework FIRST.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Another obama success.

Right now, the federal government owns 500,000,000 shares of GM, or about 26% of the company. It would need to get about $53.00/share for these to break even on the bailout, but the stock closed at only $20.21/share on Tuesday. This left the government holding $10.1 billion worth of stock, and sitting on an unrealized loss of $16.4 billion.

Right now, the government’s GM stock is worth about 39% less than it was on November 17, 2010, when the company went public at $33.00/share. However, during the intervening time, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has risen by almost 20%, so GM shares have lost 49% of their value relative to the Dow.

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again - Forbes

But here's the REAL story....The TAXPAYERS are stuck holding the paper. And WE don't get shit even if the stock price does rise to a net gain.
Nice trick,huh? The fucking Obama regime buys up a huge chunk of GM with OUR money and all we get is stuck with the LOSS.

Yes I think I point that part out also.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This thread basically says everything about what has changed with the Republican Party.

They're rooting for failure, based off of an ill-informed guy from the neo-conservative Club For Growth.

Former GM executive Bob Lutz scoffs at Forbes blog about second bankruptcy | Auto news | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

A Former GM Exec, the head of Forbes in Detroit, and Barclays say that the neo-con is getting it wrong, with the company showing $152 billion in assets, $110 billion in outlays.

Their share has grown 12% this month in what is predicted to be an on-coming rally after starting at $33 in November of 2010.

This is just another thing that Republicans these days need to do in order to make themselves feel good in their invented reality.

Yes, if the government were to sell its shares today, we'd see a loss, but they aren't, so we haven't. It's disturbing that the business cycle needs to be explained to conservatives nowadays.

What you fail to grasp in your everybody hates obama post is, some republicans like me were against the bail outs in the first place we saw this coming and you appealed obama and bush for saving those union pension plans.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Well, the 'Conservatives' are certainly hoping that GM will go bankrupt, and would raise Bin Laden up from the dead, were they able. They really want to demonstrate their love of America.

I am a conservative and I want GM to succeed; however, success comes only when a company provides a product of competitive qualify at a competitive price. The public may by duped, at least temporarily, by creative advertising but only to a point. Eventually, the concepts of quality and price become the controlling factors in consumer choices. When government subsidizes a product, the true cost includes not only the purchase price but also the amount of the subsidy which is ultimately paid by the taxpayers.

You think that ALL bankruptcies are a bad thing but it ain't so, Joe. Bankruptcies have salvaged many failing companies by giving them a chance to reorganize and begin anew. Contrary to complaints from liberals, there is no evidence that jobs were saved by the GM bailout. If GM had gone through normal bankruptcy procedures, they would have been able to restructure the UAW wages and benefits package to make GM competitive again. Not only would everyone's job be saved but it is even possible that reduced manufacturing costs would have resulted in increased sales and seven more employment at GM. What, you didn't know that lower cost can lead to more sales and more employment?

Also, had GM gone completely down the tube no one knows how many total jobs would have been lost. My best guess would be …. none. If consumers cannot buy GM cars, they will purchase another type of vehicle which means other companies will have to hire more people. Consumers are not going to start walking and taking public transportation just because they cannot buy a GM car. When the government intervenes to help one car company, all other auto makers suffer as a result.

No one mourns the loss of all those blacksmiths jobs lost as a result of the automotive industry, and many big name companies have folded over the years due to changing consumer demand. If GM bites the dust, that's what is called the survival of the fittest. Competition – without government favoritism – is the best thing going for consumers. Only open and honest competition can assure the public of the best quality at the lowest possible price.

This concept of “too big to fail” is not just stupid, it is totally insane. Any company that cannot withstand competition deserves to fail. The bigger the company is, the more foolish it is to expect the public to support it with taxpayer-funded subsidies. Outright competition is something that should only be feared by business owners, never by consumers.

Actually, as a result of the bailout many dealerships were forced to close costing many people to lose their jobs, and 20,000 non-union workers at Delphi lost their health care and most of their retirement benefits. Those dealerships that had gained favor with the Obama administration were allowed to continue while others were terminated, and all union workers retained their plush benefits packages while those who were not union lost almost everything. That's Obama: reward your friends and punish your enemies.

But that is just my own humble opinion (OK, I lied about the humble part).

A post ell thought out is worth repeating, wouldn't most people agree?

 

[Plasmaball]

Sigh....another moronic OP...that doesn take into account the fact that gm sales are high here in the USA and lackluster in europe.

So with that what do you retards expect obama to do about sales in Europe? This should be good.

No let's blame unions even though sales are high in america, because what's better than showing everyone your ignorance.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Sigh....another moronic OP...that doesn take into account the fact that gm sales are high here in the USA and lackluster in europe.

So with that what do you retards expect obama to do about sales in Europe? This should be good.

No let's blame unions even though sales are high in america, because what's better than showing everyone your ignorance.

At this point and time it's irrelevant, obama should have never bailed GM out. Now tax payers are stuck.

 

[Plasmaball]

This thread basically says everything about what has changed with the Republican Party.

They're rooting for failure, based off of an ill-informed guy from the neo-conservative Club For Growth.

Former GM executive Bob Lutz scoffs at Forbes blog about second bankruptcy | Auto news | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

A Former GM Exec, the head of Forbes in Detroit, and Barclays say that the neo-con is getting it wrong, with the company showing $152 billion in assets, $110 billion in outlays.

Their share has grown 12% this month in what is predicted to be an on-coming rally after starting at $33 in November of 2010.

This is just another thing that Republicans these days need to do in order to make themselves feel good in their invented reality.

Yes, if the government were to sell its shares today, we'd see a loss, but they aren't, so we haven't. It's disturbing that the business cycle needs to be explained to conservatives nowadays.

What you fail to grasp in your everybody hates obama post is, some republicans like me were against the bail outs in the first place we saw this coming and you appealed obama and bush for saving those union pension plans.

Bail them out and complain about that.
don't bail them out and complain when unemployment rises to 10%...

So regardless of what was done you would use it against him because you hate him..and that's not even because he's black..no you just hate him period and therefore nothing will be good for you people.

But the kicker is if he had an r next to him you would defend him till your dying breath..

Your shortterm conquests have bad affects on the future...which is what Is ruining this country.

 

[Plasmaball]

Sigh....another moronic OP...that doesn take into account the fact that gm sales are high here in the USA and lackluster in europe.

So with that what do you retards expect obama to do about sales in Europe? This should be good.

No let's blame unions even though sales are high in america, because what's better than showing everyone your ignorance.

At this point and time it's irrelevant, obama should have never bailed GM out. Now tax payers are stuck.

Fuck you...just fuck you....you are irrelevant..

What should obama do about sales in europe?

Simple question that you wont answer..

Fuck you.

 

[paulitician]

At some point most Americans will realize it was all just an awful Big Union payoff, at the Taxpayers' expense. Bankruptcy was always a viable option for GM. There was no need to rape the American Taxpayer. It was criminal.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ford motors stock has fallen by the same proportions.

What does that have to do with GM?
But since you unwisely opened the door....
Ford's stock price of Dec 2002 was just 37 cents higher than it is now. Last close was $9.63
F - Stock Quote for Ford Motor Co - F Stock price - real time stock quote for Ford Motor Co
as for GM...Your data is also inaccurate...
10 Years ago GM was trading at $35 per share..
Today GM is trading at $22 per share....Gulp....OOPS..what did you post?
GM - Stock Quote for General Motors Co - GM Stock price - real time stock quote for General Motors Co
And for all of you crybabies who criticize Romney for ..evil lib buzzword coming....OUTSOURCING....Read this....Obama supported the bailout of GM. Made the decision to spend Billions of OUR money essentially to reward the UAW for their support in the 2008 campaign and for their votes.
Now we read about all those jobs in CHINA.....China, which Obama praised for it's mass transit and other infrastructure.

 

[Plasmaball]

At some point most Americans will realize it was all just an awful Big Union payoff, at the Taxpayers' expense. Bankruptcy was always a viable option for GM. There was no need to rape the American Taxpayer. It was criminal.

Oh goodie the fake paulbot shows his ignorance

 

[paulitician]

At some point most Americans will realize it was all just an awful Big Union payoff, at the Taxpayers' expense. Bankruptcy was always a viable option for GM. There was no need to rape the American Taxpayer. It was criminal.

Oh goodie the fake paulbot shows his ignorance

How so?