General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again

[bigrebnc1775]

Sigh....another moronic OP...that doesn take into account the fact that gm sales are high here in the USA and lackluster in europe.

So with that what do you retards expect obama to do about sales in Europe? This should be good.

No let's blame unions even though sales are high in america, because what's better than showing everyone your ignorance.

At this point and time it's irrelevant, obama should have never bailed GM out. Now tax payers are stuck.

Fuck you...just fuck you....you are irrelevant..

What should obama do about sales in europe?

Simple question that you wont answer..

Fuck you.

Your point is moot the government should have never bailed GM out in the first place. All the government saved in the short term was union pensions.

OH and glad to see the truth can get you pissed off.

 

[Plasmaball]

At some point most Americans will realize it was all just an awful Big Union payoff, at the Taxpayers' expense. Bankruptcy was always a viable option for GM. There was no need to rape the American Taxpayer. It was criminal.

Oh goodie the fake paulbot shows his ignorance

How so?

What should obama do about sales in europe? Sales in america are good...the bailout worked here.

 

[Plasmaball]

At this point and time it's irrelevant, obama should have never bailed GM out. Now tax payers are stuck.

Fuck you...just fuck you....you are irrelevant..

What should obama do about sales in europe?

Simple question that you wont answer..

Fuck you.

Your point is moot the government should have never bailed GM out in the first place. All the government saved in the short term was union pensions.

OH and glad to see the truth can get you pissed off.

No its not...ugh I can't stand your stupid " everything is a conspiracy " posts....

Sales are high in america, what should obama do about europe and lagging sales..?

Keep avoiding it red....

Again you would bitch about the ue being above 10...just because you hate the man doesn't mean we have to accept your ignorance.

 

[paulitician]

Oh goodie the fake paulbot shows his ignorance

How so?

What should obama do about sales in europe? Sales in america are good...the bailout worked here.

Obama shouldn't have done anything. And that's the point. Bankruptcy was always a viable option for GM. His massive Bailout was nothing more than a criminal Big Union payoff. It's a despicable theft. He flat-out stole from the American People to pay his Union buddies off. I do not support Corporate Welfare, and i never will. To Hell with your Dear Leader and GM.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Fuck you...just fuck you....you are irrelevant..

What should obama do about sales in europe?

Simple question that you wont answer..

Fuck you.

Your point is moot the government should have never bailed GM out in the first place. All the government saved in the short term was union pensions.

OH and glad to see the truth can get you pissed off.

No its not...ugh I can't stand your stupid " everything is a conspiracy " posts....

Sales are high in america, what should obama do about europe and lagging sales..?

Keep avoiding it red....

Again you would bitch about the ue being above 10...just because you hate the man doesn't mean we have to accept your ignorance.

If you think it's a conspiracy then you have no concept on how the system works. you should just move along.

 

[Toro]

The problem that I see which you failed to add to the equation, the tax payer has yet to be paid back, and the government still has controlling shares in GM which they weren't supposed to be at this point.

What debt does GM still owe the government? The government still owns a fair chunk of GM equity - which they have been getting ready to sell BTW - but what debt do they still owe? "Bankrupt" means being unable to pay back debts or triggering covenants. It doesn't mean "the government still owns the company." There is a difference between "owe" and "own."

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The problem that I see which you failed to add to the equation, the tax payer has yet to be paid back, and the government still has controlling shares in GM which they weren't supposed to be at this point.

What debt does GM still owe the government? The government still owns a fair chunk of GM equity - which they have been getting ready to sell BTW - but what debt do they still owe? "Bankrupt" means being unable to pay back debts or triggering covenants. It doesn't mean "the government still owns the company." There is a difference between "owe" and "own."

Why does the government still have all those shares? Wasn't it obama's argunment that he did not want to be in the car business and as soon as GM paid back the money they would release control of the company?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ford motors stock has fallen by the same proportions.

So the tax payers aren't on the hook for ford and it's move to save union jobs.

Will you rightwingers be satisfied when every decent paying job is gone in America?

THEN will you shut the fuck up?

Thanks for the shrill non-sequitur.
Try again soon.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

oh yes GM still owes the tax payer

The president's new campaign video narrated by actor Tom Hanks claims GM has "repaid" its loans. But in a revelation by the special inspector general monitoring the TARP bailout program, GM and GMAC together still owe the biggest share of the remaining $119 billion TARP debt.

Obama's Bailout Success Story GM Still Delinquent On Its TARP Debt - Investors.com

 

[Toro]

The problem that I see which you failed to add to the equation, the tax payer has yet to be paid back, and the government still has controlling shares in GM which they weren't supposed to be at this point.

What debt does GM still owe the government? The government still owns a fair chunk of GM equity - which they have been getting ready to sell BTW - but what debt do they still owe? "Bankrupt" means being unable to pay back debts or triggering covenants. It doesn't mean "the government still owns the company." There is a difference between "owe" and "own."

Why does the government still have all those shares? Wasn't it obama's argunment that he did not want to be in the car business and as soon as GM paid back the money they would release control of the company?

Those are legitimate questions but have nothing to do whether or not it will go bankrupt.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What debt does GM still owe the government? The government still owns a fair chunk of GM equity - which they have been getting ready to sell BTW - but what debt do they still owe? "Bankrupt" means being unable to pay back debts or triggering covenants. It doesn't mean "the government still owns the company." There is a difference between "owe" and "own."

Why does the government still have all those shares? Wasn't it obama's argunment that he did not want to be in the car business and as soon as GM paid back the money they would release control of the company?

Those are legitimate questions but have nothing to do whether or not it will go bankrupt.

GM still owes the tax payer.

 

[daveman]

" The proles need someone to do their thinking for them, and liberals insist the job is theirs."

You want the job?

No need. People can decide for themselves what's best for them and their families.

Liberals don't understand that.

 

[Katzndogz]

GM cannot build a competitive car. Partly it is mired in the idea of green cars that don't sell well. It will eventually disappear like any other company that cannot compete in the marketplace disappears. Kodak is not making cameras. IBM stopped making the Selectric years ago. There are no new Studebaker showrooms.

The government can bankrupt all of us to breathe life into this failed model, but it can't save GM.

 

[daveman]

This thread basically says everything about what has changed with the Republican Party.

They're rooting for failure, based off of an ill-informed guy from the neo-conservative Club For Growth.

Former GM executive Bob Lutz scoffs at Forbes blog about second bankruptcy | Auto news | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

A Former GM Exec, the head of Forbes in Detroit, and Barclays say that the neo-con is getting it wrong, with the company showing $152 billion in assets, $110 billion in outlays.

Their share has grown 12% this month in what is predicted to be an on-coming rally after starting at $33 in November of 2010.

This is just another thing that Republicans these days need to do in order to make themselves feel good in their invented reality.

Yes, if the government were to sell its shares today, we'd see a loss, but they aren't, so we haven't. It's disturbing that the business cycle needs to be explained to conservatives nowadays.

Are they ever going to pay back the money they owe us?

 

[Chris]

Club for Growth Lackey....liar liar pants on fire.....

Former General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz responded Friday to a blogoshere brouhaha started by a Forbes.com contributor who predicted the automaker is headed back to bankruptcy court.

Despite a $7.6-billion profit in 2011 and $2.5 billion in the first two quarters of 2012, GM "seems unable to develop products that are truly competitive in the U.S. market," Forbes contributor Louis Woodhill wrote this week.

In his posting Woodhill said he has a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering and is a software entrepreneur. He also serves on the leadership council of the ultraconservative, anti-tax nonprofit Club For Growth.

Former GM executive Bob Lutz scoffs at Forbes blog about second bankruptcy | Auto news | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

 

[daveman]

Fuck you...just fuck you....you are irrelevant..

What should obama do about sales in europe?

Simple question that you wont answer..

Fuck you.

Your point is moot the government should have never bailed GM out in the first place. All the government saved in the short term was union pensions.

OH and glad to see the truth can get you pissed off.

No its not...ugh I can't stand your stupid " everything is a conspiracy " posts....

Sales are high in america, what should obama do about europe and lagging sales..?

Keep avoiding it red....

Again you would bitch about the ue being above 10...just because you hate the man doesn't mean we have to accept your ignorance.

Sales are high in America -- but not for GM.

US auto sales posted their best July performance since 2007 on Wednesday, but results were mixed as Ford and General Motors stumbled to a loss as rivals Chrysler, Toyota and Honda saw big gains.

--

GM saw sales fall six percent to 201,237 vehicles as retail sales slipped three percent and fleet sales dropped 15 percent due to planned reductions in low-margin sales to rental companies.​

 

[Toro]

Why does the government still have all those shares? Wasn't it obama's argunment that he did not want to be in the car business and as soon as GM paid back the money they would release control of the company?

Those are legitimate questions but have nothing to do whether or not it will go bankrupt.

GM still owes the tax payer.

Again, it has nothing to do with whether GM will go bankrupt. Bankruptcy means not being able to pay your debts. GM has no debts to the US government. It has equity. Common and preferred equity is equity, not debt. It "owes" the taxpayer inasmuch that the Treasury "owns" stakes in the common and preferred equity of the companies. Common stock confers ownership. Preferred stock is a hybrid equity/debt security but non-payment of preferred dividends does not push a company into bankruptcy.

Most of the outstanding TARP money is in the form of equity ownership in 410
institutions as of June 30, 2012 (325 banks in CPP, 82 banks and credit unions in
CDCI, plus AIG, GM, and Ally Financial). Treasury (and therefore the taxpayer)
remains a shareholder in companies that have not repaid the Government.
Treasury’s equity ownership is largely in two forms — common and preferred stock

...

In return for a total of $49.5 billion in loans to GM, Treasury received $6.7
billion in debt in GM (which was subsequently repaid), in addition to $2.1 billion
in preferred stock and a 60.8% common equity stake.84 As of June 30, 2012,
Treasury has an $849.2 million claim against Old GM’s bankruptcy, a bankruptcy
that recently terminated.85 Treasury does not expect any significant additional proceeds
from this claim.86 On December 2, 2010, GM closed an initial public offering
(“IPO&#8221 in which Treasury sold a portion of its ownership stake for $18.1 billion
in gross proceeds, reducing its ownership percentage to 33.3%.87 On December
15, 2010, GM repurchased the $2.1 billion in preferred stock from Treasury. On
January 31, 2011, Treasury’s ownership in GM was diluted from 33.3% to 32% as
a result of GM contributing 61 million of its common shares to fund GM’s hourly
and salaried pension plans.88 As of June 30, 2012, Treasury had received $22.5
billion in principal repayments, proceeds from preferred stock redemptions, and
proceeds from the sale of common stock from GM, including approximately $136.6
million in repayments related to its right to recover proceeds from Old GM. ...

Treasury invested a total of $17.2 billion in Ally Financial. On December
30, 2010, Treasury’s investment was restructured to provide for a 73.8% common
equity stake, $2.7 billion in TRUPS (including amounts received in warrants
that were immediately converted into additional securities), and $5.9 billion
in mandatorily convertible preferred shares.94 Treasury sold the $2.7 billion in
TRUPS on March 2, 2011.95 On March 31, 2011, Ally Financial announced that
it had filed a registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission
(“SEC&#8221 for a proposed IPO of common stock owned by Treasury. On a number of
subsequent occasions, Ally Financial disclosed additional details about its proposed
IPO in amended registration statements filed with the SEC. Concurrent with the
proposed IPO, Treasury plans to convert $2.9 billion of its existing $5.9 billion of
mandatorily convertible preferred shares (“MCP&#8221 into common stock.96 Treasury
will exchange the remaining $3 billion of its MCP into so-called tangible equity
units, a type of preferred stock, and will offer a portion of these tangible equity
units alongside the proposed common equity offering.

http://www.sigtarp.gov/Quarterly Reports/July_25_2012_Report_to_Congress.pdf

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Club for Growth Lackey....liar liar pants on fire.....

Former General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz responded Friday to a blogoshere brouhaha started by a Forbes.com contributor who predicted the automaker is headed back to bankruptcy court.

Despite a $7.6-billion profit in 2011 and $2.5 billion in the first two quarters of 2012, GM "seems unable to develop products that are truly competitive in the U.S. market," Forbes contributor Louis Woodhill wrote this week.

In his posting Woodhill said he has a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering and is a software entrepreneur. He also serves on the leadership council of the ultraconservative, anti-tax nonprofit Club For Growth.

Former GM executive Bob Lutz scoffs at Forbes blog about second bankruptcy | Auto news | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

a Former GM executive said so? More like paid stooge?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Those are legitimate questions but have nothing to do whether or not it will go bankrupt.

GM still owes the tax payer.

Again, it has nothing to do with whether GM will go bankrupt. Bankruptcy means not being able to pay your debts. Common and preferred equity is equity, not debt. It "owes" the taxpayer inasmuch that the Treasury "owns" stakes in the common and preferred equity of the companies. Common stock confers ownership. Preferred stock is a hybrid equity/debt security but non-payment of preferred dividends does not push a company into bankruptcy.

Most of the outstanding TARP money is in the form of equity ownership in 410
institutions as of June 30, 2012 (325 banks in CPP, 82 banks and credit unions in
CDCI, plus AIG, GM, and Ally Financial). Treasury (and therefore the taxpayer)
remains a shareholder in companies that have not repaid the Government.
Treasury’s equity ownership is largely in two forms — common and preferred stock

...

In return for a total of $49.5 billion in loans to GM, Treasury received $6.7
billion in debt in GM (which was subsequently repaid), in addition to $2.1 billion
in preferred stock and a 60.8% common equity stake.84 As of June 30, 2012,
Treasury has an $849.2 million claim against Old GM’s bankruptcy, a bankruptcy
that recently terminated.85 Treasury does not expect any significant additional proceeds
from this claim.86 On December 2, 2010, GM closed an initial public offering
(“IPO”) in which Treasury sold a portion of its ownership stake for $18.1 billion
in gross proceeds, reducing its ownership percentage to 33.3%.87 On December
15, 2010, GM repurchased the $2.1 billion in preferred stock from Treasury. On
January 31, 2011, Treasury’s ownership in GM was diluted from 33.3% to 32% as
a result of GM contributing 61 million of its common shares to fund GM’s hourly
and salaried pension plans.88 As of June 30, 2012, Treasury had received $22.5
billion in principal repayments, proceeds from preferred stock redemptions, and
proceeds from the sale of common stock from GM, including approximately $136.6
million in repayments related to its right to recover proceeds from Old GM. ...

Treasury invested a total of $17.2 billion in Ally Financial. On December
30, 2010, Treasury’s investment was restructured to provide for a 73.8% common
equity stake, $2.7 billion in TRUPS (including amounts received in warrants
that were immediately converted into additional securities), and $5.9 billion
in mandatorily convertible preferred shares.94 Treasury sold the $2.7 billion in
TRUPS on March 2, 2011.95 On March 31, 2011, Ally Financial announced that
it had filed a registration statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission
(“SEC”) for a proposed IPO of common stock owned by Treasury. On a number of
subsequent occasions, Ally Financial disclosed additional details about its proposed
IPO in amended registration statements filed with the SEC. Concurrent with the
proposed IPO, Treasury plans to convert $2.9 billion of its existing $5.9 billion of
mandatorily convertible preferred shares (“MCP”) into common stock.96 Treasury
will exchange the remaining $3 billion of its MCP into so-called tangible equity
units, a type of preferred stock, and will offer a portion of these tangible equity
units alongside the proposed common equity offering.

http://www.sigtarp.gov/Quarterly Reports/July_25_2012_Report_to_Congress.pdf

However GM and GMAC still owe one hundred and fifteen million in tarp correct?

 

[Katzndogz]

Your point is moot the government should have never bailed GM out in the first place. All the government saved in the short term was union pensions.

OH and glad to see the truth can get you pissed off.

No its not...ugh I can't stand your stupid " everything is a conspiracy " posts....

Sales are high in america, what should obama do about europe and lagging sales..?

Keep avoiding it red....

Again you would bitch about the ue being above 10...just because you hate the man doesn't mean we have to accept your ignorance.

Sales are high in America -- but not for GM.

US auto sales posted their best July performance since 2007 on Wednesday, but results were mixed as Ford and General Motors stumbled to a loss as rivals Chrysler, Toyota and Honda saw big gains.

--

GM saw sales fall six percent to 201,237 vehicles as retail sales slipped three percent and fleet sales dropped 15 percent due to planned reductions in low-margin sales to rental companies.​

In the last crash tests, the big winners were the Toyota Highlander and the Prius. This will hurt Ford and GM.