George Zimmerman's bloody head

[paperview]

Not particularly.

There is now leaked information that Zimmerman in his after action statements said ((LINK):

1. Martin circled the truck three times,

Interesting because Zimmerman while on the phone and being recorded never made such a discription to the dispatcher.​

2. That Martin was attempting to get Zimmerman's gun,

Interesting because one has to wonder where was Zimmerman's gun? Did he GZ pull his gun early? Was it in a belt holster at the hip (and if so was GZ's jacket zipped or open making it visible)? Was it in a belt holster at the small of the back (meaning it was probably been hidden from Martin's view until GZ attempted to pull it)?​

3. Zimmerman claims Martin had his hands over his mouth.

Some may think this is proof that Zimmerman couldn't have been calling for help. Personally, IMHO, that isn't necessarily true. Fights are not a static moment in time, they flow so that different things can occur at different times.​

...

1. Zimmerman, according to the statement he gave to the police that night, did say TM circled his vehicle. There was no three times though.

2. The police report notes he carried the gun in a holster in the front.

3. Z stated TM had both of his hands on Z's mouth and nose, and it was at that time TM was also trying to grab his gun, he was then able to scoot away and shoot.
Two things:
I have heard that 911 tape of screams at least 50 times now. The cries at the end (and a good portion through) are of the same person, to my ears, and AT the end, supposedly immediately after said suffocating, was not a muffled cry. That was full-throated.

Also, how many hands does it take to cover both hands over mouth and nose, *while* slamming a head into concrete, *while* trying to grab for a gun?

Answer: more than two.

Do you have a link to that....he certainly didn't mention it to the person he spoke to during his non911 call.

I posted it earlier.

It was not transcribed anywhere, because this is a portion in the CNN transcription where they broke away to commercial.

I transcribed it myself.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he, Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant, at one point claim to the police that he was scared because Mr. Martin started circling his car?

GILBREATH: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: According to Mr. Zimmerman he was so scared he still got out of the car and chased Mr. Martin? Correct?

GILBREATH: He went after him,Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And isn't it true, based on the evidence, Mr. Zimmerman had two flashlights with him?

GILBREATH: Yes.
<snip /tactical flashlight description>

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. Zimmerman never claimed that he chased - in terms of 'ran after' - Mr. Martin, is that correct?

GILBREATH: No.

DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?

GILBREATH: Yes.
... ...
O'MARA; You had mentioned, the prosecutor had questioned you about Mr. Zimmerman saying that he was having his head hit on the back, correct?

GILBREATH:Yes.

O'MARA; I thought you said the evidence was inconsistent with that?

GILBREATH: No, I don't believe that was his question.

O'MARA; Oh, then let me ask you. Is the evidence inconstant with the suggestion by Mr. Zimmerman that he was his having his head hit or bashed on the ground?

GILBREATH: His injuries are consistent with trauma to the back of his head, yes.

O'MARA;Ok. What are those injuries?

GILBREATH: There's two lacerations to the back of his head

O'MARA; OK. Did you identify what caused those lacerations?

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Could it have been having his head bashed on the ground as he testified to?

GILBREATH: He suggested, I don't know about testified to, he mentioned that his head was being physically bashed against the concrete sidewalk, and that he...this was just prior to him firing the shot, and that he managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk, and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found."
​

From the video testimony here: George Zimmerman bond hearing :: WRAL.com - Starts at about 1:45 (this portion)

 

[WorldWatcher]

3. Z stated TM had both of his hands on Z's mouth and nose, and it was at that time TM was also trying to grab his gun, he was then able to scoot away and shoot.
Two things:
I have heard that 911 tape of screams at least 50 times now. The cries at the end (and a good portion through) are of the same person, to my ears, and AT the end, supposedly immediately after said suffocating, was not a muffled cry. That was full-throated.

Also, how many hands does it take to cover both hands over mouth and nose, *while* slamming a head into concrete, *while* trying to grab for a gun?

Answer: more than two.

Without more information it would be hard to say. As I said, fights are not static they flow over time. Would have to see the raw statements from Zimmerman, if the implication is that hands (plural) over mouth occurred while hands (plural) were beating head against the ground while hands (plural) were struggling for the gun - that would be in issue.

However if it was hands over mouth - struggle, struggle - then head beating - struggle, struggle - then wrestle for gun - struggle, struggle, shot. That is believable.



>>>>

 

[paperview]

Also, I'd like to bring your attention to one part of what I quoted above:


DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?

This was mentioned in another portion of the bond hearing as well.

Here's what I'm thinking. what if a witness places Zimmerman closer to TM's house than we had originally thought and *going back* up to where TM's body was found?

If that witness who saw the "figures" are on the side closer to Brandy Greene's residence, then that really could muck things up for George.

Maybe that's why the SA doesn't seem to think who threw the first blow was as significant as the Defense does.

 

[paperview]

3. Z stated TM had both of his hands on Z's mouth and nose, and it was at that time TM was also trying to grab his gun, he was then able to scoot away and shoot.
Two things:
I have heard that 911 tape of screams at least 50 times now. The cries at the end (and a good portion through) are of the same person, to my ears, and AT the end, supposedly immediately after said suffocating, was not a muffled cry. That was full-throated.

Also, how many hands does it take to cover both hands over mouth and nose, *while* slamming a head into concrete, *while* trying to grab for a gun?

Answer: more than two.

Without more information it would be hard to say. As I said, fights are not static they flow over time. Would have to see the raw statements from Zimmerman, if the implication is that hands (plural) over mouth occurred while hands (plural) were beating head against the ground while hands (plural) were struggling for the gun - that would be in issue.

However if it was hands over mouth - struggle, struggle - then head beating - struggle, struggle - then wrestle for gun - struggle, struggle, shot. That is believable.



>>>>

Possible.

One other thing I was reminded of as I was reviewing some older stories on it.

Here (April 19):

The source familiar with the case said that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators had Zimmerman lie on his back in another location in an effort to recreate the position he said he had been in during the shooting. Then, the source said, investigators recorded Zimmerman as he shouted what had been heard on the 911 calls: cries such as, &#8220;Help me!&#8221;

New Account: Zimmerman Told Cops Trayvon <-well worth the full read.

Now true, this is an anonymous LEO source "familiar with Zimmerman's account" - but the fact he was one of the first to note the smothering, and it was confirmed later at the bond hearing that it *was* part of Zimmerman's account, lends me to give credence to this LEO source.

(A side note: that source also said Zimmerman was so paralyzed with fear, he initially "forgot he had a gun." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Who forgets they have a gun?? Give me a break.)

But to my first point. The police HAD ZIMMERMAN CRY FOR HELP AND THEY RECORDED IT! So there IS a voice example of Zimmerman's voice to compare with.

That may very well prove to be devastating to the defense, and likely part of why Corey charged Murder 2.

In this day and age where recordings of voices are abundant, (answering machines, people singing/talking into public mics [I'm thinking school plays, or commenting after a football game, for ex.] and all the other places voices get recorded), I 'd be willing to bet good money they have a voice example of Trayvon somewhere.

And if that's the case, it may very well be a slam dunk, in that regard.

 

[WorldWatcher]

3. Z stated TM had both of his hands on Z's mouth and nose, and it was at that time TM was also trying to grab his gun, he was then able to scoot away and shoot.
Two things:
I have heard that 911 tape of screams at least 50 times now. The cries at the end (and a good portion through) are of the same person, to my ears, and AT the end, supposedly immediately after said suffocating, was not a muffled cry. That was full-throated.

Also, how many hands does it take to cover both hands over mouth and nose, *while* slamming a head into concrete, *while* trying to grab for a gun?

Answer: more than two.

Without more information it would be hard to say. As I said, fights are not static they flow over time. Would have to see the raw statements from Zimmerman, if the implication is that hands (plural) over mouth occurred while hands (plural) were beating head against the ground while hands (plural) were struggling for the gun - that would be in issue.

However if it was hands over mouth - struggle, struggle - then head beating - struggle, struggle - then wrestle for gun - struggle, struggle, shot. That is believable.



>>>>

Possible.

One other thing I was reminded of as I was reviewing some older stories on it.

Here (April 19):

The source familiar with the case said that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators had Zimmerman lie on his back in another location in an effort to recreate the position he said he had been in during the shooting. Then, the source said, investigators recorded Zimmerman as he shouted what had been heard on the 911 calls: cries such as, “Help me!”

New Account: Zimmerman Told Cops Trayvon <-well worth the full read.

Now true, this is an anonymous LEO source "familiar with Zimmerman's account" - but the fact he was one of the first to note the smothering, and it was confirmed later at the bond hearing that it *was* part of Zimmerman's account, lends me to give credence to this LEO source.

(A side note: that source also said Zimmerman was so paralyzed with fear, he initially "forgot he had a gun." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Who forgets they have a gun?? Give me a break.)

But to my first point. The police HAD ZIMMERMAN CRY FOR HELP AND THEY RECORDED IT! So there IS a voice example of Zimmerman's voice to compare with.

That may very well prove to be devastating to the defense, and likely part of why Corey charged Murder 2.

In this day and age where recordings of voices are abundant, (answering machines, people singing/talking into public mics [I'm thinking school plays, or commenting after a football game, for ex.] and all the other places voices get recorded), I 'd be willing to bet good money they have a voice example of Trayvon somewhere.

And if that's the case, it may very well be a slam dunk, in that regard.

Two scenarios:

1. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices match. That is good for Zimmerman.

2. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices don't match. That is bad for Zimmerman.​

But didn't Gilbreath testify that voice analysis proved inconclusive?


>>>>

 

[paperview]

Without more information it would be hard to say. As I said, fights are not static they flow over time. Would have to see the raw statements from Zimmerman, if the implication is that hands (plural) over mouth occurred while hands (plural) were beating head against the ground while hands (plural) were struggling for the gun - that would be in issue.

However if it was hands over mouth - struggle, struggle - then head beating - struggle, struggle - then wrestle for gun - struggle, struggle, shot. That is believable.



>>>>

Possible.

One other thing I was reminded of as I was reviewing some older stories on it.

Here (April 19):

The source familiar with the case said that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators had Zimmerman lie on his back in another location in an effort to recreate the position he said he had been in during the shooting. Then, the source said, investigators recorded Zimmerman as he shouted what had been heard on the 911 calls: cries such as, “Help me!”

New Account: Zimmerman Told Cops Trayvon <-well worth the full read.

Now true, this is an anonymous LEO source "familiar with Zimmerman's account" - but the fact he was one of the first to note the smothering, and it was confirmed later at the bond hearing that it *was* part of Zimmerman's account, lends me to give credence to this LEO source.

(A side note: that source also said Zimmerman was so paralyzed with fear, he initially "forgot he had a gun." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Who forgets they have a gun?? Give me a break.)

But to my first point. The police HAD ZIMMERMAN CRY FOR HELP AND THEY RECORDED IT! So there IS a voice example of Zimmerman's voice to compare with.

That may very well prove to be devastating to the defense, and likely part of why Corey charged Murder 2.

In this day and age where recordings of voices are abundant, (answering machines, people singing/talking into public mics [I'm thinking school plays, or commenting after a football game, for ex.] and all the other places voices get recorded), I 'd be willing to bet good money they have a voice example of Trayvon somewhere.

And if that's the case, it may very well be a slam dunk, in that regard.

Two scenarios:

1. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices match. That is good for Zimmerman.

2. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices don't match. That is bad for Zimmerman.​

But didn't Gilbreath testify that voice analysis proved inconclusive?


>>>>

If you review his testimony, and the way the question was asked and answered, I think Gilbreath was being a bit coy with the answer, though truthful.

Also, he noted earlier he and the other investigator split up portions of the investigation. It's likely he may not have been privy to all the other investigator had, and/or it was still in the process of being worked on to a scientific certainty.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

at QW. Gets his ass handed to him and pretends he didn't start down the garden path.

One of us is seriously deluded, and it isn't the one who wrote this post you are reading.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you don't want to discuss Zimmerman and Martin in the "George Zimmerman's bloody head" thread, well I guess that's your choice. Have a nice day.

BTW - If you decide to start a new thread on a more generalized topic, please PM me a link. I might choose to participate.


>>>>

Do you have something new to say about Zimmerman that you have not already said?

Not particularly.

There is now leaked information that Zimmerman in his after action statements said ((LINK):

1. Martin circled the truck three times,

Interesting because Zimmerman while on the phone and being recorded never made such a discription to the dispatcher.​

2. That Martin was attempting to get Zimmerman's gun,

Interesting because one has to wonder where was Zimmerman's gun? Did he GZ pull his gun early? Was it in a belt holster at the hip (and if so was GZ's jacket zipped or open making it visible)? Was it in a belt holster at the small of the back (meaning it was probably been hidden from Martin's view until GZ attempted to pull it)?​

3. Zimmerman claims Martin had his hands over his mouth.

Some may think this is proof that Zimmerman couldn't have been calling for help. Personally, IMHO, that isn't necessarily true. Fights are not a static moment in time, they flow so that different things can occur at different times.​

Didn't think so, yet you keep talking about him.

Talking about Zimmerman in the "George Zimmerman's bloody head" thread. Shocking.

We are talking about something that is not even tangential to what happened, yet you want to keep tying it to it. That just makes you look stupid.

I didn't claim Zimmerman was making a citizens arrest.

................I discuss citizens arrest as it would pertain to Zimmerman in the "George Zimmerman's bloody head".

.........................This makes me look stupid?

..................................Don't think so.



>>>>

Leaked by whom? Does any of this indicate that either Zimmerman or Martin were attempting a citizen's arrest? If not, why do you continuously shoehorn a conversation about citizen's arrest and how you, as usual, are misinterpreting the law, into what happened that night?

That is what makes you look stupid. I have had millions of conversations in my life, the vast majority of them start on one subject and end on another one.The ones I remember most because I actually managed to learn from them started as conversations about one thing and ended up discussing a wide range of topics. Only anal retentive assholes insist that every conversation stick to the original outline, which only they have.

By the way, I actually started posting in a thread that was named something other than "Zimmerman's bloody head." the threads were merged by the mods, and I followed it into this, merged, thread. Just because you are incapable of realizing that simple fact of forum life does not mean I am. If the mods think my comments are inappropriate to the thread, they can step in and say so, and I will either stop talking about it, or ignore them. I am quite willing to argue with them if I think I am right, why the frack would I let you force me to talk about something that is irrelevant to the point I am making?

There is no way a discussion about citizen's arrest pertains to George Zimmerman because he did not try to detain Trayvon Martin. You admit that, yet constantly try to create circumstances and what ifs that show how you think it wouldn' apply to him.

That is what makes you look stupid, obsessive compulsive, and anal retentive, all of which I despise, which explains why I did not make a career out of the Navy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not particularly.

There is now leaked information that Zimmerman in his after action statements said ((LINK):

1. Martin circled the truck three times,

Interesting because Zimmerman while on the phone and being recorded never made such a discription to the dispatcher.​

2. That Martin was attempting to get Zimmerman's gun,

Interesting because one has to wonder where was Zimmerman's gun? Did he GZ pull his gun early? Was it in a belt holster at the hip (and if so was GZ's jacket zipped or open making it visible)? Was it in a belt holster at the small of the back (meaning it was probably been hidden from Martin's view until GZ attempted to pull it)?​

3. Zimmerman claims Martin had his hands over his mouth.

Some may think this is proof that Zimmerman couldn't have been calling for help. Personally, IMHO, that isn't necessarily true. Fights are not a static moment in time, they flow so that different things can occur at different times.​

...

1. Zimmerman, according to the statement he gave to the police that night, did say TM circled his vehicle. There was no three times though.

2. The police report notes he carried the gun in a holster in the front.

3. Z stated TM had both of his hands on Z's mouth and nose, and it was at that time TM was also trying to grab his gun, he was then able to scoot away and shoot.
Two things:
I have heard that 911 tape of screams at least 50 times now. The cries at the end (and a good portion through) are of the same person, to my ears, and AT the end, supposedly immediately after said suffocating, was not a muffled cry. That was full-throated.

Also, how many hands does it take to cover both hands over mouth and nose, *while* slamming a head into concrete, *while* trying to grab for a gun?

Answer: more than two.

Ever been in a fight, an accident, or any other situation where something extremely intense and emotional happened? If so, have you ever tried to describe what happened and gotten the details confused? Why shouldn't Zimmerman be allowed to be confused, and why do the police get to argue that said confusion proves he is guilty?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

3. Z stated TM had both of his hands on Z's mouth and nose, and it was at that time TM was also trying to grab his gun, he was then able to scoot away and shoot.
Two things:
I have heard that 911 tape of screams at least 50 times now. The cries at the end (and a good portion through) are of the same person, to my ears, and AT the end, supposedly immediately after said suffocating, was not a muffled cry. That was full-throated.

Also, how many hands does it take to cover both hands over mouth and nose, *while* slamming a head into concrete, *while* trying to grab for a gun?

Answer: more than two.

Without more information it would be hard to say. As I said, fights are not static they flow over time. Would have to see the raw statements from Zimmerman, if the implication is that hands (plural) over mouth occurred while hands (plural) were beating head against the ground while hands (plural) were struggling for the gun - that would be in issue.

However if it was hands over mouth - struggle, struggle - then head beating - struggle, struggle - then wrestle for gun - struggle, struggle, shot. That is believable.



>>>>

Of course it would be an issue for you, because it is absolutely impossible for anyone to grab someone with both hands by the front of the head, ie. the face, and still bash their head against the ground. Nor is it possible for anyone to ever get confused by just being in a fight for their lives, getting a mild concussion and a broken nose, killing someone, and then being questioned for hours by the police who are deliberately trying to find tiny details you get wrong and use them to prove you actually murdered someone.

That is why no one who understands the police and how they work ever answers their questions without a lawyer. In fact, police don't answer questions about shootings they are involved in until they have had time to sleep, think through what happened, talk to a lawyer and a doctor, and get the timeline in line with what the evidence shows. Why don't non police officers get the same consideration?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Also, I'd like to bring your attention to one part of what I quoted above:


DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?

This was mentioned in another portion of the bond hearing as well.

Here's what I'm thinking. what if a witness places Zimmerman closer to TM's house than we had originally thought and *going back* up to where TM's body was found?

If that witness who saw the "figures" are on the side closer to Brandy Greene's residence, then that really could muck things up for George.

Maybe that's why the SA doesn't seem to think who threw the first blow was as significant as the Defense does.

Let me get this straight, assuming that there is actually a witness that says that, you want me to assume that Martin was running away from where he was staying toward Zimmerman's car? Wouldn't it make more sense for me to assume that, if this actually happened, it was Zimmerman that was running, and he was trying to get back to his car?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

3. Z stated TM had both of his hands on Z's mouth and nose, and it was at that time TM was also trying to grab his gun, he was then able to scoot away and shoot.
Two things:
I have heard that 911 tape of screams at least 50 times now. The cries at the end (and a good portion through) are of the same person, to my ears, and AT the end, supposedly immediately after said suffocating, was not a muffled cry. That was full-throated.

Also, how many hands does it take to cover both hands over mouth and nose, *while* slamming a head into concrete, *while* trying to grab for a gun?

Answer: more than two.

Without more information it would be hard to say. As I said, fights are not static they flow over time. Would have to see the raw statements from Zimmerman, if the implication is that hands (plural) over mouth occurred while hands (plural) were beating head against the ground while hands (plural) were struggling for the gun - that would be in issue.

However if it was hands over mouth - struggle, struggle - then head beating - struggle, struggle - then wrestle for gun - struggle, struggle, shot. That is believable.



>>>>

Possible.

One other thing I was reminded of as I was reviewing some older stories on it.

Here (April 19):

The source familiar with the case said that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators had Zimmerman lie on his back in another location in an effort to recreate the position he said he had been in during the shooting. Then, the source said, investigators recorded Zimmerman as he shouted what had been heard on the 911 calls: cries such as, “Help me!”

New Account: Zimmerman Told Cops Trayvon <-well worth the full read.

Now true, this is an anonymous LEO source "familiar with Zimmerman's account" - but the fact he was one of the first to note the smothering, and it was confirmed later at the bond hearing that it *was* part of Zimmerman's account, lends me to give credence to this LEO source.

(A side note: that source also said Zimmerman was so paralyzed with fear, he initially "forgot he had a gun." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Who forgets they have a gun?? Give me a break.)

But to my first point. The police HAD ZIMMERMAN CRY FOR HELP AND THEY RECORDED IT! So there IS a voice example of Zimmerman's voice to compare with.

That may very well prove to be devastating to the defense, and likely part of why Corey charged Murder 2.

In this day and age where recordings of voices are abundant, (answering machines, people singing/talking into public mics [I'm thinking school plays, or commenting after a football game, for ex.] and all the other places voices get recorded), I 'd be willing to bet good money they have a voice example of Trayvon somewhere.

And if that's the case, it may very well be a slam dunk, in that regard.

Who forgets they have a gun? Almost everyone who is not trained to use one.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Without more information it would be hard to say. As I said, fights are not static they flow over time. Would have to see the raw statements from Zimmerman, if the implication is that hands (plural) over mouth occurred while hands (plural) were beating head against the ground while hands (plural) were struggling for the gun - that would be in issue.

However if it was hands over mouth - struggle, struggle - then head beating - struggle, struggle - then wrestle for gun - struggle, struggle, shot. That is believable.



>>>>

Possible.

One other thing I was reminded of as I was reviewing some older stories on it.

Here (April 19):

The source familiar with the case said that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigators had Zimmerman lie on his back in another location in an effort to recreate the position he said he had been in during the shooting. Then, the source said, investigators recorded Zimmerman as he shouted what had been heard on the 911 calls: cries such as, “Help me!”

New Account: Zimmerman Told Cops Trayvon <-well worth the full read.

Now true, this is an anonymous LEO source "familiar with Zimmerman's account" - but the fact he was one of the first to note the smothering, and it was confirmed later at the bond hearing that it *was* part of Zimmerman's account, lends me to give credence to this LEO source.

(A side note: that source also said Zimmerman was so paralyzed with fear, he initially "forgot he had a gun." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Who forgets they have a gun?? Give me a break.)

But to my first point. The police HAD ZIMMERMAN CRY FOR HELP AND THEY RECORDED IT! So there IS a voice example of Zimmerman's voice to compare with.

That may very well prove to be devastating to the defense, and likely part of why Corey charged Murder 2.

In this day and age where recordings of voices are abundant, (answering machines, people singing/talking into public mics [I'm thinking school plays, or commenting after a football game, for ex.] and all the other places voices get recorded), I 'd be willing to bet good money they have a voice example of Trayvon somewhere.

And if that's the case, it may very well be a slam dunk, in that regard.

Two scenarios:

1. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices match. That is good for Zimmerman.

2. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices don't match. That is bad for Zimmerman.​

But didn't Gilbreath testify that voice analysis proved inconclusive?


>>>>

Voice analysis is not an exact science, despite what you see in the movies. You can record someone saying something, then have them say it again 5 minutes later, and the two comparisons will not line up exactly. At best you get a 95% match, it is usually much lower. Add in stress, the fact that Zimmerman was struggling in one recording and sitting in a room in the other, and they will be even further apart. Anything less than 100% would be grounds to call it inconclusive. I see this as evidence that both voices were Zimmerman's because it is a lot easier to believe that they don't match perfectly than to believe that a grown man and a 17 year old boy would sound enough alike to confuse experts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Possible.

One other thing I was reminded of as I was reviewing some older stories on it.

Here (April 19):

New Account: Zimmerman Told Cops Trayvon <-well worth the full read.

Now true, this is an anonymous LEO source "familiar with Zimmerman's account" - but the fact he was one of the first to note the smothering, and it was confirmed later at the bond hearing that it *was* part of Zimmerman's account, lends me to give credence to this LEO source.

(A side note: that source also said Zimmerman was so paralyzed with fear, he initially "forgot he had a gun." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Who forgets they have a gun?? Give me a break.)

But to my first point. The police HAD ZIMMERMAN CRY FOR HELP AND THEY RECORDED IT! So there IS a voice example of Zimmerman's voice to compare with.

That may very well prove to be devastating to the defense, and likely part of why Corey charged Murder 2.

In this day and age where recordings of voices are abundant, (answering machines, people singing/talking into public mics [I'm thinking school plays, or commenting after a football game, for ex.] and all the other places voices get recorded), I 'd be willing to bet good money they have a voice example of Trayvon somewhere.

And if that's the case, it may very well be a slam dunk, in that regard.

Two scenarios:

1. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices match. That is good for Zimmerman.

2. If they have a second recording to compare to the 911 tapes with Zimmerman shouting, then if the voices don't match. That is bad for Zimmerman.​

But didn't Gilbreath testify that voice analysis proved inconclusive?


>>>>

If you review his testimony, and the way the question was asked and answered, I think Gilbreath was being a bit coy with the answer, though truthful.

Also, he noted earlier he and the other investigator split up portions of the investigation. It's likely he may not have been privy to all the other investigator had, and/or it was still in the process of being worked on to a scientific certainty.

Cops lie. You swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth on a witness stand, being coy is lying.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Leaked by whom?

Don't know, the article didn't say.

George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin new details: Source says Zimmerman told police that Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him - Orlando Sentinel

Does any of this indicate that either Zimmerman or Martin were attempting a citizen's arrest?

Not that I've been able to determine from the public evidence and statements.

If not, why do you continuously shoehorn a conversation about citizen's arrest and how you, as usual, are misinterpreting the law, into what happened that night?

I don't.

I didn't bring up citizen's arrest, I've only responded to post directed at me. Like you just did.

as usual, are misinterpreting the law, into what happened that night?

In post #1783 I provided a detailed section by section analysis of my opinion of Florida Statute 776.041. (LINK)

In post #1784 you came back basically agreeing with what I'd been saying; that 776.041 provided an exception to the self defense laws and under that exception it would be the states responsibility to prove that Zimmerman was the aggressor and did not withdraw or that Zimmerman was the aggressor under the forcible felony law.

But then you went on to say "it doesn't matter who started the fight, all that matters was is what Zimmerman believed, and whether it is reasonable."

Then you went on about a non-existant "NOR" function.

That is what makes you look stupid.

Actually it doesn't. The desire not to degrade into personal attacks and quite logic actually makes me come out quite well.

By the way, I actually started posting in a thread that was named something other than "Zimmerman's bloody head." the threads were merged by the mods, and I followed it into this, merged, thread. Just because you are incapable of realizing that simple fact of forum life does not mean I am. If the mods think my comments are inappropriate to the thread, they can step in and say so, and I will either stop talking about it, or ignore them. I am quite willing to argue with them if I think I am right, why the frack would I let you force me to talk about something that is irrelevant to the point I am making?

I'm not trying to force you not to talk about any point you which to make what-so-ever. Feel free to post as you wish, just don't be suprised if the post is directed at me that I respond in the context of what the thread is actually about which is the Zimmerman/Martin case instead of some deflective topic.

There is no way a discussion about citizen's arrest pertains to George Zimmerman because he did not try to detain Trayvon Martin. You admit that,...

I never brought up citizens arrest. I have ONLY responded citizens arrest posts make by others and that seems to be predominantly you that just can't seem to let it go.

yet constantly try to create circumstances and what ifs that show how you think it wouldn' apply to him.

When asked I respond, true - I don't believe any of the information we have at this point indicates Zimmerman was attempting a citizens arrest. Said it multiple times.

Yet you keep bringing it up.

That is what makes you look stupid, obsessive compulsive, and anal retentive,...

And you continued need to respond shows a certain degree of obsessive compulsive and anal behavior on your part - or do you fail to see that to continue to attempt to discuss a topic with me (citizens arrest) that I never brought up to begin with.

...all of which I despise, which explains why I did not make a career out of the Navy.

Well, the military is not for everyone. Some people get booted, some people serve honorably and leave when their obligated service is up. I truly hope you fell into the second category and respect that you made a good go of it. Thanks.


>>>>

 

[bripat9643]

I don't want him killed w/o justice.

However, if he's found guilty of the highest charge, I wouldn't mind if he were put to death.

Electric chair would be my preference.

2nd degree murder doesn't allow the death penalty. He won't even be convicted of that because the evidence doesn't support the charge. They might have been able to convict on a manslaughter charge, but they chose to appease the left-wing lynch mob instead.

BTW, I wouldn't mind if you were put to death.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Leaked by whom?

Don't know, the article didn't say.

George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin new details: Source says Zimmerman told police that Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him - Orlando Sentinel

Does any of this indicate that either Zimmerman or Martin were attempting a citizen's arrest?

Not that I've been able to determine from the public evidence and statements.



I don't.

I didn't bring up citizen's arrest, I've only responded to post directed at me. Like you just did.




In post #1783 I provided a detailed section by section analysis of my opinion of Florida Statute 776.041. (LINK)

In post #1784 you came back basically agreeing with what I'd been saying; that 776.041 provided an exception to the self defense laws and under that exception it would be the states responsibility to prove that Zimmerman was the aggressor and did not withdraw or that Zimmerman was the aggressor under the forcible felony law.

But then you went on to say "it doesn't matter who started the fight, all that matters was is what Zimmerman believed, and whether it is reasonable."

Then you went on about a non-existant "NOR" function.




Actually it doesn't. The desire not to degrade into personal attacks and quite logic actually makes me come out quite well.




I'm not trying to force you not to talk about any point you which to make what-so-ever. Feel free to post as you wish, just don't be suprised if the post is directed at me that I respond in the context of what the thread is actually about which is the Zimmerman/Martin case instead of some deflective topic.




I never brought up citizens arrest. I have ONLY responded citizens arrest posts make by others and that seems to be predominantly you that just can't seem to let it go.



When asked I respond, true - I don't believe any of the information we have at this point indicates Zimmerman was attempting a citizens arrest. Said it multiple times.

Yet you keep bringing it up.

That is what makes you look stupid, obsessive compulsive, and anal retentive,...

And you continued need to respond shows a certain degree of obsessive compulsive and anal behavior on your part - or do you fail to see that to continue to attempt to discuss a topic with me (citizens arrest) that I never brought up to begin with.

...all of which I despise, which explains why I did not make a career out of the Navy.

Well, the military is not for everyone. Some people get booted, some people serve honorably and leave when their obligated service is up. I truly hope you fell into the second category and respect that you made a good go of it. Thanks.


>>>>

Did I say you brought it up? I say you keep trying to tie it to what happened that night, which is incredibly stupid. The idiot who tried to argue that Zimmerman was making a citizen's arrest is just as whacked as you are when you argue that Zimmerman was committing a felony so he cannot claim self defense.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Leaked by whom?

Don't know, the article didn't say.

George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin new details: Source says Zimmerman told police that Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him - Orlando Sentinel




Not that I've been able to determine from the public evidence and statements.



I don't.

I didn't bring up citizen's arrest, I've only responded to post directed at me. Like you just did.




In post #1783 I provided a detailed section by section analysis of my opinion of Florida Statute 776.041. (LINK)

In post #1784 you came back basically agreeing with what I'd been saying; that 776.041 provided an exception to the self defense laws and under that exception it would be the states responsibility to prove that Zimmerman was the aggressor and did not withdraw or that Zimmerman was the aggressor under the forcible felony law.

But then you went on to say "it doesn't matter who started the fight, all that matters was is what Zimmerman believed, and whether it is reasonable."

Then you went on about a non-existant "NOR" function.




Actually it doesn't. The desire not to degrade into personal attacks and quite logic actually makes me come out quite well.




I'm not trying to force you not to talk about any point you which to make what-so-ever. Feel free to post as you wish, just don't be suprised if the post is directed at me that I respond in the context of what the thread is actually about which is the Zimmerman/Martin case instead of some deflective topic.




I never brought up citizens arrest. I have ONLY responded citizens arrest posts make by others and that seems to be predominantly you that just can't seem to let it go.



When asked I respond, true - I don't believe any of the information we have at this point indicates Zimmerman was attempting a citizens arrest. Said it multiple times.

Yet you keep bringing it up.



And you continued need to respond shows a certain degree of obsessive compulsive and anal behavior on your part - or do you fail to see that to continue to attempt to discuss a topic with me (citizens arrest) that I never brought up to begin with.

...all of which I despise, which explains why I did not make a career out of the Navy.

Well, the military is not for everyone. Some people get booted, some people serve honorably and leave when their obligated service is up. I truly hope you fell into the second category and respect that you made a good go of it. Thanks.


>>>>

Did I say you brought it up? I say you keep trying to tie it to what happened that night, which is incredibly stupid.

For like the 500th time, No I'm not trying to say that Zimmerman was trying to make a citizens arrest that night.

The idiot who tried to argue that Zimmerman was making a citizen's arrest is just Zas whacked as you are when you argue that Zimmerman was committing a felony so he cannot claim self defense.

I have not claimed Zimmerman was committing a felony. I have provided 3 alternative scenarios that fit the known evidences - one of the possibilities is that Zimmerman initiated hostilities in a felonious manner.

I would appreciate it if you are to speak correctly about what I've said.

If it were to be shown that Zimmerman was the aggressor and was committing a forcible felony against Martin, then he would lose his self defense immunity. From the evidence we have publicly available though, it does not appear that the state has that kind of evidence.


>>>>

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For like the 500th time, No I'm not trying to say that Zimmerman was trying to make a citizens arrest that night.

For, like, the 500th time, why do you keep mentioning Zimmerman if you are n't trying to say he, or Martin, were trying to make a citizen's arrest? All I did in response to your post about the subject was point out that a person does not have to witness a felony in order to make an arrest. You keep trying to argue that, if Zimmerman was making an arrest, he never mentioned in any of the calls that he saw Martin doing anything illegal.

Frankly, that confuses me. Since we both agree that didn't happen, why bring it up repeatedly?

I have not claimed Zimmerman was committing a felony. I have provided 3 alternative scenarios that fit the known evidences - one of the possibilities is that Zimmerman initiated hostilities in a felonious manner.

I would appreciate it if you are to speak correctly about what I've said.

If it were to be shown that Zimmerman was the aggressor and was committing a forcible felony against Martin, then he would lose his self defense immunity. From the evidence we have publicly available though, it does not appear that the state has that kind of evidence.


>>>>

There you go with your "3 alternative scenarios" again. One of those so called scenarios is Zimmerman committing a felony that there is no evidence he committed. That makes you as whacked as the people that argue Zimmerman was making a citizen's arrest when there is no evidence he was making one. The difference is you admit the idea is whacked, yet you keep throwing it out.

That makes you look stupid and anal retentive.

 

[paperview]

I just gotta say: There are some royal dickheads on this thread.

You know who you are.

That is all.