Georgia Senate blocks mega tax cuts for Delta in response to Delta punishing law abiding NRA

The most embarrassing part of this is that frauds that try and pass themselves off as conservatives cheer this sort of government intrusion.


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damn straight when a business discriminates against its own people. yep, I have no sympathy at fking all.

So, since not giving discounts is now the same thing as discriminating, as a member of the American Legion and the VFW I am feel discriminated against by the NRA who doesn’t give me a discount for being a member of those groups


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not the same. if you never had one, they didn't take it away from you.

Then that is even worse, at least the NRA members got a discount for a little time.

That damn NRA did not even do that much
well I'd like to know what it is they do exactly that required the pulling of the discount. but lazy people in here can't tell me.
they didn't want to be part of the controversy between NRA folks and the rest of America
 
Delta informed the National Rifle Association Saturday that the airline will end its contract for discounted fares for travel to the association's 2018 annual meeting. The company requested that the NRA remove Delta's information from its meeting website.

Delta’s decision reflects the airline’s neutral status in the current national debate over gun control amid recent school shootings. Out of respect for our customers and employees on both sides, Delta has taken this action to refrain from entering this debate and focus on its business. Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment.

This is not the first time Delta has withdrawn support over a politically and emotionally charged issue. Last year, Delta withdrew its sponsorship of a theater that staged a graphic interpretation of “Julius Caesar” depicting the assassination of President Trump. Delta supports all of its customers but will not support organizations on any side of any highly charged political issue that divides our nation.

I wonder if any of the NRA snowflakes on here were demanding that Delta give its support back the the play...


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I'm pretty sure I've got your number, and it's in the low double digits.

Are you anohter one of the fuckers on here that lack the most basic level of integrity to admit when they are wrong? Is it too much for your soul to say "hey, sorry I accused you of something that you were not a part of?' Why is that so hard for so many people?

Why would she apologize? You are a lying sack of shit. I don't think you were here to weigh in about the bakers. You people lie about everything and then get so huffy when people just always assume you're lying.

I imagine you're lying now.


He's a vulgar cretin.

Nuff said.

What a whiny little snowflake you turned out to be


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As you are the one who resorted to vulgarity, it's pretty clear that you are a thin skinned wanker.

IOW

I am rubber
You are glue
Everything mean you say
Bounces off me
And sticks to you

What the fuck is vulgarity? Who the hell decides what words are vulgar and which are not?


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Are you anohter one of the fuckers on here that lack the most basic level of integrity to admit when they are wrong? Is it too much for your soul to say "hey, sorry I accused you of something that you were not a part of?' Why is that so hard for so many people?

Why would she apologize? You are a lying sack of shit. I don't think you were here to weigh in about the bakers. You people lie about everything and then get so huffy when people just always assume you're lying.

I imagine you're lying now.


He's a vulgar cretin.

Nuff said.

What a whiny little snowflake you turned out to be


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


As you are the one who resorted to vulgarity, it's pretty clear that you are a thin skinned wanker.

IOW

I am rubber
You are glue
Everything mean you say
Bounces off me
And sticks to you

What the fuck is vulgarity? Who the hell decides what words are vulgar and which are not?


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Apparently you my lord. (rolling eyes)
 
What raw hypocrisy. If a company refused to give Planned Parenthood members a discount, Democratic-controlled legislatures would do whatever they could to take away any tax breaks that company was getting, never mind that Planned Parenthood, unlike the NRA, actually kills thousands of kids each year.

If the GA legislature believes that Delta is treating gun owners unfairly, it has every right to block tax breaks for Delta. It's that simple.

Can you provide some examples of this happening?

Or even an example of a company that gives discounts to PP employees


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Once again Dic has nothing so he resorts to personal insults.

Here’s what Justin isn’t doing.

He’s not comforting the victims of another mass shooting because they’re relatively rare in Canada. The last one was in 2016. There are much fewer of these in Canada (one very two years on average), and because AR’s and similar weapons are restricted, we have fewer victims than American shootings.

He’s not dealing with an investigation as to whether he committed treason and conspired with a foreign enemy to undermine our democracy.

Justin is not watching his campaign staff perp walked into and out of court.

Half of his executive team hasn’t had to be replaced since the election and all of them have passed their security clearances.

He’s not fending off charges that he sexually assaults women. Or paying porn stars for sex.

I’ll take silly outfits over Dumb Donald any day.

What Justin is doing today is bringing down a budget which emphasizes gender equality. It includes more day care spaces, expanded parental leave for fathers, and exploration of a national pharma care plan.

Spending taxpayer dollars on programs for individuals and families. Not corporations and the wealthy.
 
Where and when did the government violate the First Amendment? Who has been arrested for expressing their beliefs?

are you so deluded that you think only arrest violates the first amendment?

:cuckoo:

No, I suppose if the state of Georgia declined to renew Delta's business license, that would also qualify.

Refusing to give them a break on their taxes? Not so much.

Refusing to give them a break on their taxes UNLESS they do business with the NRA.

Absolutely unconstitutional!!!

Refusing to give them a tax break unless they discontinue discriminating.

Cite your Constitution requiring states to give tax breaks to anyone.

I didn’t realize that the NRA was a protected class. How is refusing to do business with an organization which is under investigation by the FBI for financial crimes and treason “discrimination”?

Refusing to give tax breaks doesn’t violate the Constitution. Making those tax breaks conditional upon the applicant making business arrangements with a private lobbying group, does.

I didn't realize you had to be a "protected class" - aka a professional leftist victim - to experience discrimination. Certainly doesn't show up in my dictionary under the definition.

For someone who probably spends a lot of time manufacturing "outrage" over discrimination, you don't seem to understand it very well.

I'm going to say this one more time, and I would like you to focus every bit of the tiny amount of attention and reading comprehension you have on it. CITE ME THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRING STATES TO GIVE TAX BREAKS TO ANYONE.

If you answer me one more time by simply asserting it as fact, I'm going to either assume that you know you're a lying sack of shit who can't respond, or that you are too pig-stupid to understand words.
 
What raw hypocrisy. If a company refused to give Planned Parenthood members a discount, Democratic-controlled legislatures would do whatever they could to take away any tax breaks that company was getting, never mind that Planned Parenthood, unlike the NRA, actually kills thousands of kids each year.

If the GA legislature believes that Delta is treating gun owners unfairly, it has every right to block tax breaks for Delta. It's that simple.

Can you provide some examples of this happening?

Or even an example of a company that gives discounts to PP employees


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Once again Dic has nothing so he resorts to personal insults.

Here’s what Justin isn’t doing.

He’s not comforting the victims of another mass shooting because they’re relatively rare in Canada. The last one was in 2016. There are much fewer of these in Canada (one very two years on average), and because AR’s and similar weapons are restricted, we have fewer victims than American shootings.

He’s not dealing with an investigation as to whether he committed treason and conspired with a foreign enemy to undermine our democracy.

Justin is not watching his campaign staff perp walked into and out of court.

Half of his executive team hasn’t had to be replaced since the election and all of them have passed their security clearances.

He’s not fending off charges that he sexually assaults women. Or paying porn stars for sex.

I’ll take silly outfits over Dumb Donald any day.

What Justin is doing today is bringing down a budget which emphasizes gender equality. It includes more day care spaces, expanded parental leave for fathers, and exploration of a national pharma care plan.

Spending taxpayer dollars on programs for individuals and families. Not corporations and the wealthy.

Nice talking points. Which Gender are you, how are you identifying today? I'm not a Republican but I detest stupid partisan people like you. Rump is playing a role and you are too stupid to know that he works for the same Bankers that ALL Presidents work for.
 
Are you anohter one of the fuckers on here that lack the most basic level of integrity to admit when they are wrong? Is it too much for your soul to say "hey, sorry I accused you of something that you were not a part of?' Why is that so hard for so many people?

Why would she apologize? You are a lying sack of shit. I don't think you were here to weigh in about the bakers. You people lie about everything and then get so huffy when people just always assume you're lying.

I imagine you're lying now.


He's a vulgar cretin.

Nuff said.

What a whiny little snowflake you turned out to be


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


As you are the one who resorted to vulgarity, it's pretty clear that you are a thin skinned wanker.

IOW

I am rubber
You are glue
Everything mean you say
Bounces off me
And sticks to you

What the fuck is vulgarity? Who the hell decides what words are vulgar and which are not?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


The fact that you have no capacity to distinguish civilized conversation from vulgarity just confirms my perception of your cretinhood.
 
Using the power of government to pressure a business into performing or not performing certain actions for another organization is not someone using their 1st amendment rights. According to a quote in the article, the tax break in question was explicitly described as being contingent upon Delta resuming its previous business affairs with the NRA.

I don't know what version of the First Amendment YOU'RE reading, but the version I'm familiar with says, "Petition the government for redress of grievances". Doesn't specify what the grievances have to be to count. You get to pester your local politician for whatever you wanna pester him for.

I'm not talking about anyone petitioning government, I'm talking about the actions of the government. When a government representative says that a piece of legislation will not be passed unless company A does business in a particular way with organization X, that is not free speech. The representative is not acting as a private citizen in that context.

How do you know that representative hasn't heard from his constituents?

How does that matter in this context? Whether the representative has heard from constituents or not, he was not speaking as a private citizen when he said that a certain piece of legislation would not pass so long as Delta does not continue giving the discount to NRA members. He was speaking as a representative of the Georgia government (or at least, appeared to be based on the content of the article).

I never said he WAS speaking as a private citizen. I believe I've been pretty clear that he was speaking as a representative of the people of Georgia, and as a candidate to represent them at an even higher level of government.

The only real question is, is he in fact verbalizing the actual wishes of his constituents, or not? We don't really know, since the media has been so eager to present this as "bought and paid for by NRA donations" and "given his marching orders by the NRA" that they haven't bothered to ask. I guess we'll find out on election day.

In the post of mine you quoted, I was contrasting a private citizen voicing their opinion with a government representative speaking as a voice of government. Whether the rep heard from constituents or not doesn't matter in that context.

Going past that, whether some of the representative's constituents voiced their disapproval of Delta's ending discounts for NRA members or not, I do not believe government should be holding tax breaks up as a carrot or stick to make one private organization do a special kind of business with another private organization. If Delta refused to allow NRA members on their planes, that would be different. I would accept government intervention in that case. However, all Delta did was end a particular discount for NRA members. They have not, that I am aware of, refused service to anyone because of NRA affiliation. I do not believe that trying to pressure Delta into offering a discount to NRA members is a proper use of government.

I also don't believe that election results are necessarily a good indicator of whether this particular action represents the will of Georgia voters. It may, but there is no reason to assume any election will be based solely on this incident.

Again, I don't believe Georgia has any responsibility to offer a tax break to airlines for fuel. I just find the rationale given, the use of a tax break to pressure a company to give a discount to a small number of members of a private group, a misuse of government power. And I do not believe this sort of action is in any way limited to Republican or conservative representatives.
 
are you so deluded that you think only arrest violates the first amendment?

:cuckoo:

No, I suppose if the state of Georgia declined to renew Delta's business license, that would also qualify.

Refusing to give them a break on their taxes? Not so much.

Refusing to give them a break on their taxes UNLESS they do business with the NRA.

Absolutely unconstitutional!!!

Refusing to give them a tax break unless they discontinue discriminating.

Cite your Constitution requiring states to give tax breaks to anyone.

So it is discrimination not to give discounts? That is where you want to hang your hat now?


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It is discrimination to give discounts, and then suddenly yank them and admit it's because you don't want to associate with "those people", yeah.

Would you like to ask the members of the NRA whether or not they feel discriminated against, or does that not matter because they deserve it?

Where did Delta say anything about not associating with "those people"? Has Delta refused service to anyone for being an NRA member? How is stopping a special service for a group discriminating against that group?
 
What raw hypocrisy. If a company refused to give Planned Parenthood members a discount, Democratic-controlled legislatures would do whatever they could to take away any tax breaks that company was getting, never mind that Planned Parenthood, unlike the NRA, actually kills thousands of kids each year.

If the GA legislature believes that Delta is treating gun owners unfairly, it has every right to block tax breaks for Delta. It's that simple.
These craphats sent the IRS on to people who supported the tea party.

Fuck them, and fuck everything they say. You can't reason with them, they're fucking schizophrenic. We need to take a clue from Trump and just ignore them as white noise and carry on with doing the right thing while they flap mindlessly.
 
Why would she apologize? You are a lying sack of shit. I don't think you were here to weigh in about the bakers. You people lie about everything and then get so huffy when people just always assume you're lying.

I imagine you're lying now.


He's a vulgar cretin.

Nuff said.

What a whiny little snowflake you turned out to be


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


As you are the one who resorted to vulgarity, it's pretty clear that you are a thin skinned wanker.

IOW

I am rubber
You are glue
Everything mean you say
Bounces off me
And sticks to you

What the fuck is vulgarity? Who the hell decides what words are vulgar and which are not?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


The fact that you have no capacity to distinguish civilized conversation from vulgarity just confirms my perception of your cretinhood.

See, I would have gone with cretinity there.
I shy away from cretinitude though. Too dental.
 
I don't know what version of the First Amendment YOU'RE reading, but the version I'm familiar with says, "Petition the government for redress of grievances". Doesn't specify what the grievances have to be to count. You get to pester your local politician for whatever you wanna pester him for.

I'm not talking about anyone petitioning government, I'm talking about the actions of the government. When a government representative says that a piece of legislation will not be passed unless company A does business in a particular way with organization X, that is not free speech. The representative is not acting as a private citizen in that context.

How do you know that representative hasn't heard from his constituents?

How does that matter in this context? Whether the representative has heard from constituents or not, he was not speaking as a private citizen when he said that a certain piece of legislation would not pass so long as Delta does not continue giving the discount to NRA members. He was speaking as a representative of the Georgia government (or at least, appeared to be based on the content of the article).

I never said he WAS speaking as a private citizen. I believe I've been pretty clear that he was speaking as a representative of the people of Georgia, and as a candidate to represent them at an even higher level of government.

The only real question is, is he in fact verbalizing the actual wishes of his constituents, or not? We don't really know, since the media has been so eager to present this as "bought and paid for by NRA donations" and "given his marching orders by the NRA" that they haven't bothered to ask. I guess we'll find out on election day.

In the post of mine you quoted, I was contrasting a private citizen voicing their opinion with a government representative speaking as a voice of government. Whether the rep heard from constituents or not doesn't matter in that context.

Going past that, whether some of the representative's constituents voiced their disapproval of Delta's ending discounts for NRA members or not, I do not believe government should be holding tax breaks up as a carrot or stick to make one private organization do a special kind of business with another private organization. If Delta refused to allow NRA members on their planes, that would be different. I would accept government intervention in that case. However, all Delta did was end a particular discount for NRA members. They have not, that I am aware of, refused service to anyone because of NRA affiliation. I do not believe that trying to pressure Delta into offering a discount to NRA members is a proper use of government.

I also don't believe that election results are necessarily a good indicator of whether this particular action represents the will of Georgia voters. It may, but there is no reason to assume any election will be based solely on this incident.

Again, I don't believe Georgia has any responsibility to offer a tax break to airlines for fuel. I just find the rationale given, the use of a tax break to pressure a company to give a discount to a small number of members of a private group, a misuse of government power. And I do not believe this sort of action is in any way limited to Republican or conservative representatives.

That is about 700 words too long.
 
What raw hypocrisy. If a company refused to give Planned Parenthood members a discount, Democratic-controlled legislatures would do whatever they could to take away any tax breaks that company was getting, never mind that Planned Parenthood, unlike the NRA, actually kills thousands of kids each year.

If the GA legislature believes that Delta is treating gun owners unfairly, it has every right to block tax breaks for Delta. It's that simple.
These craphats sent the IRS on to people who supported the tea party.

Fuck them, and fuck everything they say. You can't reason with them, they're fucking schizophrenic. We need to take a clue from Trump and just ignore them as white noise and carry on with doing the right thing while they flap mindlessly.
Yeah Drumpf ignores lol Every morning tweeting his dumb ass off Is that your definition of ignoring??
 
Why would she apologize? You are a lying sack of shit. I don't think you were here to weigh in about the bakers. You people lie about everything and then get so huffy when people just always assume you're lying.

I imagine you're lying now.


He's a vulgar cretin.

Nuff said.

What a whiny little snowflake you turned out to be


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


As you are the one who resorted to vulgarity, it's pretty clear that you are a thin skinned wanker.

IOW

I am rubber
You are glue
Everything mean you say
Bounces off me
And sticks to you

What the fuck is vulgarity? Who the hell decides what words are vulgar and which are not?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com


The fact that you have no capacity to distinguish civilized conversation from vulgarity just confirms my perception of your cretinhood.


Cretinhood...I like that!

You fucking lie about me and I go full cretin mode! Not much worse than a liar
 
I'm not talking about anyone petitioning government, I'm talking about the actions of the government. When a government representative says that a piece of legislation will not be passed unless company A does business in a particular way with organization X, that is not free speech. The representative is not acting as a private citizen in that context.

How do you know that representative hasn't heard from his constituents?

How does that matter in this context? Whether the representative has heard from constituents or not, he was not speaking as a private citizen when he said that a certain piece of legislation would not pass so long as Delta does not continue giving the discount to NRA members. He was speaking as a representative of the Georgia government (or at least, appeared to be based on the content of the article).

I never said he WAS speaking as a private citizen. I believe I've been pretty clear that he was speaking as a representative of the people of Georgia, and as a candidate to represent them at an even higher level of government.

The only real question is, is he in fact verbalizing the actual wishes of his constituents, or not? We don't really know, since the media has been so eager to present this as "bought and paid for by NRA donations" and "given his marching orders by the NRA" that they haven't bothered to ask. I guess we'll find out on election day.

In the post of mine you quoted, I was contrasting a private citizen voicing their opinion with a government representative speaking as a voice of government. Whether the rep heard from constituents or not doesn't matter in that context.

Going past that, whether some of the representative's constituents voiced their disapproval of Delta's ending discounts for NRA members or not, I do not believe government should be holding tax breaks up as a carrot or stick to make one private organization do a special kind of business with another private organization. If Delta refused to allow NRA members on their planes, that would be different. I would accept government intervention in that case. However, all Delta did was end a particular discount for NRA members. They have not, that I am aware of, refused service to anyone because of NRA affiliation. I do not believe that trying to pressure Delta into offering a discount to NRA members is a proper use of government.

I also don't believe that election results are necessarily a good indicator of whether this particular action represents the will of Georgia voters. It may, but there is no reason to assume any election will be based solely on this incident.

Again, I don't believe Georgia has any responsibility to offer a tax break to airlines for fuel. I just find the rationale given, the use of a tax break to pressure a company to give a discount to a small number of members of a private group, a misuse of government power. And I do not believe this sort of action is in any way limited to Republican or conservative representatives.

That is about 700 words too long.

That post wasn't even close to 700 words long.

Luckily for you, it wasn't even directed at you. I'm not sure why you felt the need to comment on it, but whatever. :dunno:
 
How do you know that representative hasn't heard from his constituents?

How does that matter in this context? Whether the representative has heard from constituents or not, he was not speaking as a private citizen when he said that a certain piece of legislation would not pass so long as Delta does not continue giving the discount to NRA members. He was speaking as a representative of the Georgia government (or at least, appeared to be based on the content of the article).

I never said he WAS speaking as a private citizen. I believe I've been pretty clear that he was speaking as a representative of the people of Georgia, and as a candidate to represent them at an even higher level of government.

The only real question is, is he in fact verbalizing the actual wishes of his constituents, or not? We don't really know, since the media has been so eager to present this as "bought and paid for by NRA donations" and "given his marching orders by the NRA" that they haven't bothered to ask. I guess we'll find out on election day.

In the post of mine you quoted, I was contrasting a private citizen voicing their opinion with a government representative speaking as a voice of government. Whether the rep heard from constituents or not doesn't matter in that context.

Going past that, whether some of the representative's constituents voiced their disapproval of Delta's ending discounts for NRA members or not, I do not believe government should be holding tax breaks up as a carrot or stick to make one private organization do a special kind of business with another private organization. If Delta refused to allow NRA members on their planes, that would be different. I would accept government intervention in that case. However, all Delta did was end a particular discount for NRA members. They have not, that I am aware of, refused service to anyone because of NRA affiliation. I do not believe that trying to pressure Delta into offering a discount to NRA members is a proper use of government.

I also don't believe that election results are necessarily a good indicator of whether this particular action represents the will of Georgia voters. It may, but there is no reason to assume any election will be based solely on this incident.

Again, I don't believe Georgia has any responsibility to offer a tax break to airlines for fuel. I just find the rationale given, the use of a tax break to pressure a company to give a discount to a small number of members of a private group, a misuse of government power. And I do not believe this sort of action is in any way limited to Republican or conservative representatives.

That is about 700 words too long.

That post wasn't even close to 700 words long.

Luckily for you, it wasn't even directed at you. I'm not sure why you felt the need to comment on it, but whatever. :dunno:

I know because if it was directed at me I might feel guilty for not reading it.
 
Just heard about this. Will find a link. Kudos to the Senators for hitting back at the NRA. Why should gun owners in Georgia who pay taxes have to support Delta financially?

If Delta doesn't want or need the business of 5 million NRA members why do they even need a tax break?

Delta’s tax break may not take flight after Georgia Senate blocks it

It'd be too bad if Delta found another hub wouldn't it.
what an expense. Go for it.

you don't think they can get a sweet deal from another state?

:lol:
that's quite a lot of moving, you think that's free? Then they have to buy office buildings and supplies for the hangers, wow for the NRA that didn't do anything. i'll laugh at that if that happens. really, I will laugh.

what part of *sweet deal* are you having trouble getting a grip on, s0n?

you know they can move the hq without moving the planes, right?

also, they have these things called *leases*- google it :thup:
 
How does that matter in this context? Whether the representative has heard from constituents or not, he was not speaking as a private citizen when he said that a certain piece of legislation would not pass so long as Delta does not continue giving the discount to NRA members. He was speaking as a representative of the Georgia government (or at least, appeared to be based on the content of the article).

I never said he WAS speaking as a private citizen. I believe I've been pretty clear that he was speaking as a representative of the people of Georgia, and as a candidate to represent them at an even higher level of government.

The only real question is, is he in fact verbalizing the actual wishes of his constituents, or not? We don't really know, since the media has been so eager to present this as "bought and paid for by NRA donations" and "given his marching orders by the NRA" that they haven't bothered to ask. I guess we'll find out on election day.

In the post of mine you quoted, I was contrasting a private citizen voicing their opinion with a government representative speaking as a voice of government. Whether the rep heard from constituents or not doesn't matter in that context.

Going past that, whether some of the representative's constituents voiced their disapproval of Delta's ending discounts for NRA members or not, I do not believe government should be holding tax breaks up as a carrot or stick to make one private organization do a special kind of business with another private organization. If Delta refused to allow NRA members on their planes, that would be different. I would accept government intervention in that case. However, all Delta did was end a particular discount for NRA members. They have not, that I am aware of, refused service to anyone because of NRA affiliation. I do not believe that trying to pressure Delta into offering a discount to NRA members is a proper use of government.

I also don't believe that election results are necessarily a good indicator of whether this particular action represents the will of Georgia voters. It may, but there is no reason to assume any election will be based solely on this incident.

Again, I don't believe Georgia has any responsibility to offer a tax break to airlines for fuel. I just find the rationale given, the use of a tax break to pressure a company to give a discount to a small number of members of a private group, a misuse of government power. And I do not believe this sort of action is in any way limited to Republican or conservative representatives.

That is about 700 words too long.

That post wasn't even close to 700 words long.

Luckily for you, it wasn't even directed at you. I'm not sure why you felt the need to comment on it, but whatever. :dunno:

I know because if it was directed at me I might feel guilty for not reading it.

no one expects you to read, allie
 
Delta informed the National Rifle Association Saturday that the airline will end its contract for discounted fares for travel to the association's 2018 annual meeting. The company requested that the NRA remove Delta's information from its meeting website.

Delta’s decision reflects the airline’s neutral status in the current national debate over gun control amid recent school shootings. Out of respect for our customers and employees on both sides, Delta has taken this action to refrain from entering this debate and focus on its business. Delta continues to support the 2nd Amendment.

This is not the first time Delta has withdrawn support over a politically and emotionally charged issue. Last year, Delta withdrew its sponsorship of a theater that staged a graphic interpretation of “Julius Caesar” depicting the assassination of President Trump. Delta supports all of its customers but will not support organizations on any side of any highly charged political issue that divides our nation.

I wonder if any of the NRA snowflakes on here were demanding that Delta give its support back the the play...


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the outcry was de minimus
 

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