Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

[Inthemiddle]

LOL, you did not prove a damned thing and you know it.

Yes I did. I provided examples that span centuries of the area being called "Palestine" or the equivalent of the same in other languages.

The name comes from the Anglicization of the Latin 'Palestina' not the Greek.

1) Do you even know the Greek word from which the Latin word is derived? No, you don't. Either that, or you're deliberately ignoring it so that you can repeat your lies.

2) At best, you're describing the etymology of the English word (and only a very small part of it) and reducing your argument to say nothing more than the fact that since the English word for "Palestine" derives from the Latin, the name is "invented" and the region is not really what it is. That kind of argument is completely illogical.

The name refers to the old Phillistine tribe and the Romans renamed the area from Judea to spite the Jews who revolted and were slaughter on so many crosses that trees almost disapeared from a thirty mile radius of Jerusalem.

They renamed what they called their province that included the region. The name predates the Romans. You even admit that the origins of the modern name predate the Romans. Using such a fact to try to prove that the Romans invented the name is logically absurd.

And the Palestinians are Arab

Not ethnically. Do you even know what "Arab" ethnicity is all about? Obviously not.

not Phillistine

I never said that modern day Palestinians are Philistines. That's a straw man. I said that modern day Palestinians are a mixing of many ancient peoples; that they are descended from the ancient peoples of Canaan with ethnic influences from other people who immigrated and conquered the area at various times in history (which is the case for any modern ethnicity).

and are related to the other Semetic groups to include the Jews, but they are Arab.

Again, ethnically the Palestinians are not Arabs. But you don't know anything about Arabic ethnicity or what constitutes an "Arab" or the differing usages of the word.

You are a nutball.

No, I'm a knowledgeable person. You are deliberately ignoring information, because a full treatment of all the information and facts renders your position absurd. Which is probably why, instead of presenting additional facts and information, you're now resorting to nothing more than name calling in an attempt to make your point. Why don't you try explaining how Arab identity factors into the whole thing? Why don't you try explaining where the Latin term "Palestina" relates to the Greek term from 400 years earlier? Why don't you also try explaining why Shakespeare uses the word "Palestine" if the area was not called that between Roman times and the British Mandate? Why don't you also try explaining why the etymological history is only relevant back to Roman times, and why the history before that doesn't mater?

 

[jgarden]

“There is no intelligent person today who argues about the existence of the Palestinian people ..... Nations are created gradually. I don’t think the Palestinians are less of a nation than the Americans .....”

- Tom Segev, Israeli historian

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...2267095/print/

Palestine was not some wilderness, devoid of settlement prior to the arrival of Abraham or after the disperal of the Jews by the Romans in 70 AD.

"Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t), the first documented reference to Palestine, were found in the ancient Egyptian temple texts of Medinet Habutois during the Twentieth dynasty - the reign of Ramesses III (1150 BCE).

The Jews were just one of many peoples who have inhabited have this area over the last 10000 years.

 

[cbirch2]

“There is no intelligent person today who argues about the existence of the Palestinian people ..... Nations are created gradually. I don’t think the Palestinians are less of a nation than the Americans .....”

- Tom Segev, Israeli historian

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...2267095/print/

Palestine was not some wilderness, devoid of settlement prior to the arrival of Abraham or after the disperal of the Jews by the Romans in 70 AD.

"Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t), the first documented reference to Palestine, were found in the ancient Egyptian temple texts of Medinet Habutois during the Twentieth dynasty - the reign of Ramesses III (1150 BCE).

The Jews were just one of many peoples who have inhabited have this area over the last 10000 years.

Exactly. Either lines mean nothing, and humans should simply recognize themselves as people rather than members of a geographic area; or every geographic area of people deserve a nation to themselves.

Since humanity is a long ways away from post-nationalism, the only option is to give the palestinian people a bona fide state. Anything else is not just a crime but morally wrong.

To recognize the right of one people to exist is not to deny the right of another. Certainly israel has been perpetually attacked over the last 70 years, but in the past decades not to the extent that its survival has been threatened. At the very least, israel has reacted horribly. The map should make it clear, israel needs to halt its settlements. If i was a palestinian, i would view it as provocation. Its not israeli land, and real people live there. Do people like newt gingrich really think palestinians should just leave and go to jordan, syria, and egypt?

Thats pure arrogance

 

[georgephillip]

“There is no intelligent person today who argues about the existence of the Palestinian people ..... Nations are created gradually. I don’t think the Palestinians are less of a nation than the Americans .....”

- Tom Segev, Israeli historian

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...2267095/print/

Palestine was not some wilderness, devoid of settlement prior to the arrival of Abraham or after the disperal of the Jews by the Romans in 70 AD.

"Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t), the first documented reference to Palestine, were found in the ancient Egyptian temple texts of Medinet Habutois during the Twentieth dynasty - the reign of Ramesses III (1150 BCE).

The Jews were just one of many peoples who have inhabited have this area over the last 10000 years.

"The Palestinians have never had an independent state of their own. The region was ruled by the Ottomans for several centuries, and when the Ottoman Empire collapsed after World War I, the British took control of the area. It was known as the British Mandate for Palestine, and Muslims, Christians and Jews living there were all referred to as Palestinians."

Gingrich defends calling Palestinians an ‘invented’ people in Republican debate - The Globe and Mail

The British sought a little, loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of hostile Arabism at the end of WWI, at the same time the Royal Navy was shifting from coal to oil. Follow the money.

 

[Jroc]

The "Palestinian" Arabs have their state. Jordan is the "Palestinian" state, all you people's history is just that, history. Some is right, some is not, but it's pointless to keep arguing about it because we are in the here and now and Israel is not going anywhere get used to it.

Thus, about seventy-five percent of Palestine's "native soil," east of the Jordan River, called Jordan, is literally an independent Palestinian-Arab state located on the majority of the land of Palestine; it contains a majority of Palestinian Arabs in its army as well as its population. In April 1948,21 just before the formal hostilities were launched against Israel's statehood, Abdullah of Transjordan22 declared: "Palestine and Transjordan are one, for Palestine is the coastline and Transjordan the hinterland of the same country." Abdullah's policy was defended against "Arab challengers" by Prime Minister Hazza al-Majali:

History of Jordan, Jordan as Palestine & Two states for two people, Jordan must contribute

 

[georgephillip]

The "Palestinian" Arabs have their state. Jordan is the "Palestinian" state, all you people's history is just that, history. Some is right, some is not, but it's pointless to keep arguing about it because we are in the here and now and Israel is not going anywhere get used to it.

Thus, about seventy-five percent of Palestine's "native soil," east of the Jordan River, called Jordan, is literally an independent Palestinian-Arab state located on the majority of the land of Palestine; it contains a majority of Palestinian Arabs in its army as well as its population. In April 1948,21 just before the formal hostilities were launched against Israel's statehood, Abdullah of Transjordan22 declared: "Palestine and Transjordan are one, for Palestine is the coastline and Transjordan the hinterland of the same country." Abdullah's policy was defended against "Arab challengers" by Prime Minister Hazza al-Majali:

History of Jordan, Jordan as Palestine & Two states for two people, Jordan must contribute

"Considering all the 'territories' that had been given to the Arabs, Lord Balfour 'hoped' that the 'small notch' of Palestine east and west of the Jordan River, which was "being given" to the Jewish people, would not be 'grudged' to them by Arab leaders.

By what moral authority did Lord Balfour give Palestine to the Jews?

History of Jordan, Jordan as Palestine & Two states for two people, Jordan must contribute

"Sir Ronald Storrs, the first Governor of Jerusalem, certainly had no illusions about what a 'Jewish homeland” in Palestine meant for the British Empire: 'It will form for England,' he said, 'a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.'”

"Storrs’ analogy was no accident. Ireland was where the English invented the tactic of divide and conquer, and where the devastating effectiveness of using foreign settlers to drive a wedge between the colonial rulers and the colonized made it a template for worldwide imperial rule."

The same moral authority Charles I used in 1609 to found the Plantation of Ulster?

Divide and Conquer as Imperial Rules | FPIF

 

[Inthemiddle]

You know, what I find so humorous is that those taking the traditionally conservative view point regarding Israel and Palestine would, at best, have to look at Israel as a nation in the midsts of an ongoing civil war, where the Palestinians are fighting for freedom to secede from Israel. Of course, these same people tend to emphatically look at our own Civil War as an injustice by the North against the South. But Israel, on the other hand, should do exactly what they damn the Union for doing.

 

[georgephillip]

You know, what I find so humorous is that those taking the traditionally conservative view point regarding Israel and Palestine would, at best, have to look at Israel as a nation in the midsts of an ongoing civil war, where the Palestinians are fighting for freedom to secede from Israel. Of course, these same people tend to emphatically look at our own Civil War as an injustice by the North against the South. But Israel, on the other hand, should do exactly what they damn the Union for doing.

Do you see any potential for a civil war among the Jewish citizens of Israel?

The class divide has opened wide, and many of the recent immigrants from the former Soviet bloc seem nearly as racist toward Arabs as White South Africans were toward their native population.

 

[theliq]

the "palestinian" arabs have their state. Jordan is the "palestinian" state, all you people's history is just that, history. Some is right, some is not, but it's pointless to keep arguing about it because we are in the here and now and israel is not going anywhere get used to it.

thus, about seventy-five percent of palestine's "native soil," east of the jordan river, called jordan, is literally an independent palestinian-arab state located on the majority of the land of palestine; it contains a majority of palestinian arabs in its army as well as its population. In april 1948,21 just before the formal hostilities were launched against israel's statehood, abdullah of transjordan22 declared: "palestine and transjordan are one, for palestine is the coastline and transjordan the hinterland of the same country." abdullah's policy was defended against "arab challengers" by prime minister hazza al-majali:

history of jordan, jordan as palestine & two states for two people, jordan must contribute

moron

 

[theliq]

It doesn't matter when it was "invented." The fact remains that the United States is an actual country with a government and well defined borders. The country of Palestine never existed. It's a fiction.

There was no country called Israel until 1948..shrug....

Ignorant asshat...

That's right, fuckstick, but after 1948 it was an actual country. "Palestine," on the other hand, was never an actual country. No one was ever a citizen of Palestine. No one ever received a passport from the country of Palestine.

AND at this time you couldn't get a passport for Israel either you FUCKSTICKUPYOURARSE

 

[bripat9643]

That's right, fuckstick, but after 1948 it was an actual country. "Palestine," on the other hand, was never an actual country. No one was ever a citizen of Palestine. No one ever received a passport from the country of Palestine.

AND at this time you couldn't get a passport for Israel either you FUCKSTICKUPYOURARSE

Of course I couldn't. I'm not an Israeli. However, plenty of people who live in Israel can. I'm an American, so I have an American passport.

How fucking stupid are you?

 

[Jroc]

You know, what I find so humorous is that those taking the traditionally conservative view point regarding Israel and Palestine would, at best, have to look at Israel as a nation in the midsts of an ongoing civil war, where the Palestinians are fighting for freedom to secede from Israel. Of course, these same people tend to emphatically look at our own Civil War as an injustice by the North against the South. But Israel, on the other hand, should do exactly what they damn the Union for doing.

You're a walking talking point, and apoligest for the muslims whackos. I'm almost embarrassed by your blind ignorance of reality. I'm actually more sad for you than anything

Would East Jerusalem Arabs rather be citizens of Israel or Palestine?
In new survey, 35% say they are willing to relocate if their neighborhoods become part of a future Palestinian state; only 30% say they would prefer Palestinian citizenship over Israeli.

Would East Jerusalem Arabs rather be citizens of Israel or Palestine? - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

 

[cbirch2]

“There is no intelligent person today who argues about the existence of the Palestinian people ..... Nations are created gradually. I don’t think the Palestinians are less of a nation than the Americans .....”

- Tom Segev, Israeli historian

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...2267095/print/

Palestine was not some wilderness, devoid of settlement prior to the arrival of Abraham or after the disperal of the Jews by the Romans in 70 AD.

"Peleset" (transliterated from hieroglyphs as P-r-s-t), the first documented reference to Palestine, were found in the ancient Egyptian temple texts of Medinet Habutois during the Twentieth dynasty - the reign of Ramesses III (1150 BCE).

The Jews were just one of many peoples who have inhabited have this area over the last 10000 years.

"The Palestinians have never had an independent state of their own. The region was ruled by the Ottomans for several centuries, and when the Ottoman Empire collapsed after World War I, the British took control of the area. It was known as the British Mandate for Palestine, and Muslims, Christians and Jews living there were all referred to as Palestinians."

Gingrich defends calling Palestinians an ‘invented’ people in Republican debate - The Globe and Mail

The British sought a little, loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of hostile Arabism at the end of WWI, at the same time the Royal Navy was shifting from coal to oil. Follow the money.

First it was owned by the ottomans. If you go back back enough it was probably owned by the persians. Further back yet, it was probably owned by the romans and the egyptians.

Whats the difference between palestine and jordan, or syria? All british mandates. Why is 60 year old jordan now considered a country? If the country of jordan is only 60-something years old, why is jordanian nationalism valid?

When you start to think back through history, and about geography and empires, you get the feeling that lines on map are little more than that....just lines....

 

[georgephillip]

"ethnic

"Of or relating to a group of people having common racial, national, religious or cultural origins..."

Whether a nation of Palestine ever existed prior to 1922, the Palestine Mandate's existence isn't in question. Jews, Arabs and Christians living under that Mandate were all considered citizens of Palestine with Jews comprising about one-third of the total number of Palestinians.

In 1948 hundreds of thousands of Arab Palestinian citizens were forced from their property during the creation of a Jewish state, and they have been denied the right of return or just compensation for their losses ever since.

Those who argue Palestinians are "invented" because an ancient nation named Palestine never existed do so because they can't explain why one-third of the citizens of Palestine in 1948 were allowed to inflict a Jewish state on the majority of their fellow citizens of Palestine.

ethnic - Wiktionary

 

[buckeye45_73]

Jordon was created by Britain. Most of the states of the Middle East are creations of the British Empire. Including even Isreal.

So go bitch to Brittain, the true empire state and nation builder.

 

[Gadawg73]

"ethnic

"Of or relating to a group of people having common racial, national, religious or cultural origins..."

Whether a nation of Palestine ever existed prior to 1922, the Palestine Mandate's existence isn't in question. Jews, Arabs and Christians living under that Mandate were all considered citizens of Palestine with Jews comprising about one-third of the total number of Palestinians.

In 1948 hundreds of thousands of Arab Palestinian citizens were forced from their property during the creation of a Jewish state, and they have been denied the right of return or just compensation for their losses ever since.

Those who argue Palestinians are "invented" because an ancient nation named Palestine never existed do so because they can't explain why one-third of the citizens of Palestine in 1948 were allowed to inflict a Jewish state on the majority of their fellow citizens of Palestine.

ethnic - Wiktionary

They were not forced from any property. That is absurd.
Most allof what is Israel now was desert sand then, unoccupied except for a few nomads. The major cities were ruled by Persians, Judeans, Greeks, Romans, Greco Romans, Arabs, Turks and then after WWI it was set up by the British as the mandate system and got the name "mandatory Palestine".
The Jews had been settling in Palestine since the late 1400s. In the 1500s all major cities and Jerusalem were being settled with Jews. Thousands of Jews settled there in the late 1800s.
Gingrich is right, there has never, ever been a "palestinian state". That is myth.
Most all of the Palestininans left Isreal because of the 1948 war the Arabs started with Isreal.
And after they fled Isreal EVERY Arab state has REJECTED the Palestinians in their countries.
Why? Arabs treat Palestininans worse than slaves. NONE of them are allowed to hold anything other than 2nd tier jobs in most Arab countries.

 

[georgephillip]

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

Some non-Jews expelled from their homes left at the point of a bayonet.
Arab homes, businesses, and bank accounts were "annexed" by the Jewish State in 1948.
Area C is the next step in Jewish annexation of all of Mandate Palestine between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River.
Gingrich won't care about that either because he's well-paid to lie about how the Jewish State came into existence.

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Gadawg73]

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

Some non-Jews expelled from their homes left at the point of a bayonet.
Arab homes, businesses, and bank accounts were "annexed" by the Jewish State in 1948.
Area C is the next step in Jewish annexation of all of Mandate Palestine between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River.
Gingrich won't care about that either because he's well-paid to lie about how the Jewish State came into existence.

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki articles are biased.
Is that all you can offer? A Wiki article?
Beyond weak.

 

[Gadawg73]

"The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة*, an-Nakbah, lit. 'disaster', 'catastrophe', or 'cataclysm'),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 725,000 Palestinian Arabs left, fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

Some non-Jews expelled from their homes left at the point of a bayonet.
Arab homes, businesses, and bank accounts were "annexed" by the Jewish State in 1948.
Area C is the next step in Jewish annexation of all of Mandate Palestine between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River.
Gingrich won't care about that either because he's well-paid to lie about how the Jewish State came into existence.

1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hey George, do you know anything about THE WAR going on there in 1948?
Who attacked who?
Who was attacking Israel?
What did the Arab states say about the few Palestinians in Isreal at the time of the attack?
What was that war about? The Palestinians?
Fact is the Arabs that attacked Israel HAD EVERY INTENTION OF RUNNING OFF THE PALESTINIANS ALSO.
Persians HATE AND DESPISE Palestinians. Arabs have them at the bottom of their caste system.
A thorough understanding of the history, culture and religous beliefs of the region is required in this discussion.
You have mastered NONE of them.

 

[Too Tall]

Jordon was created by Britain. Most of the states of the Middle East are creations of the British Empire. Including even Isreal.

Wrong, Israel was created by God for the Jews.

Gingrich's home state of Georgia was created by the British...

...for criminals.

Newt was born in Pa and was an Army brat who moved to Ga when he was a Junior in High School. You can blame him for what the British did if you want too, but it makes you look foolish.