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I 'listen' to a lot of people who enjoy discussing their religion. I don't notice many--if any at all--who are trying to convert anyone. That includes atheist who are passionate that atheism is the route to take. People come here to talk about their beliefs or lack thereof. Don't read any more into than that.I see a lot of hard-sell proselytizing in various threads but no apparent converts.
I doubt it as most people do not take the believers' advice of having faith first. They don't even believe it when science backs up the Bible. Thus, they have to deal with what happens to them when they experience death.I wonder why that is? Does anyone really come to a message board to search for whatever gods they're looking for?
I see a lot of hard-sell proselytizing in various threads but no apparent converts.
christian-faith.com
I must be the only one who reads the 'fear the gods'', ''atheists are going to Hell'', ''Christianity will save your soul'', ''angels are real'', etc., etc.I 'listen' to a lot of people who enjoy discussing their religion. I don't notice many--if any at all--who are trying to convert anyone. That includes atheist who are passionate that atheism is the route to take. People come here to talk about their beliefs or lack thereof. Don't read any more into than that.
Did that cut and paste Bible thumping come from your Jimmy Swaggert madrassah?I doubt it as most people do not take the believers' advice of having faith first. They don't even believe it when science backs up the Bible. Thus, they have to deal with what happens to them when they experience death.
Here are some quotes from dying atheists and God haters:
'Thomas Hobbs political philosopher “I say again, if I had the whole world at my disposal, I would give it to live one day. I am about to take a leap into the dark.”
Sir Francis Newport, the head of an English Atheist club to those gathered around his deathbed: “You need not tell me there is no God for I know there is one, and that I am in His presence! You need not tell me there is no hell. I feel myself already slipping. Wretches, cease your idle talk about there being hope for me! I know I am lost forever! Oh, that fire! Oh, the insufferable pangs of hell! …Oh, that I could lie for a thousand years upon the fire that is never quenched, to purchase the favor of God and be united to Him again. But it is a fruitless wish. Millions and millions of years will bring me no nearer the end of my torments than one poor hour. Oh, eternity, eternity forever and forever!, Oh, the insufferable pangs of Hell!”
David Hume, atheist philosopher famous for his philosophy of empiricism and skepticism of religion, he cried loud on his death bed “I am in flames!” It is said his “desperation was a horrible scene”.
Caesar Borgia: “While I lived, I provided for everything but death; now I must die, and am unprepared to die.
Thomas Payne the leading atheistic writer in American colonies: “Stay with me, for God’s sake; I cannot bear to be left alone , O Lord, help me! O God, what have I done to suffer so much? What will become of me hereafter? “I would give worlds if I had them, that The Age of Reason had never been published. 0 Lord, help me! Christ, help me! …No, don’t leave; stay with me! Send even a child to stay with me; for I am on the edge of Hell here alone. If ever the Devil had an agent, I have been that one.”
Anton LeVey author of the Satanic Bible and high priest of the religion dedicated to the worship of Satan. Some of his famous quotes are “There is a beast in man that needs to be exercised, not exorcised”. His dying words were “Oh my, oh my, what have I done, there is something very wrong…there is something very wrong….”
Robert Ingersoll: “O God, if there be a God, save my soul, if I have a soul!” (Some say it was this way: “Oh God, if there be a God, save my soul if I have a soul, from hell, if there be a hell!”)
Napoleon Bonaparte, the French emperor, and who, like Adolf Hitler, brought death to millions to satisfy his greedy, power-mad, selfish ambitions for world conquest: “I die before my time, and my body will be given back to the earth. Such is the fate of him who has been called the great Napoleon. What an abyss between my deep misery and the eternal kingdom of Christ!”
Sir Thomas Scott, Chancellor of England “Until this moment I thought there was neither a God nor a hell. Now I know and feel that there are both, and I am doomed to perdition by the just judgment of the Almighty.”
Charles IX was the French king who urged on by his mother, gave the order for the massacre of the French Huguenots, in which 15,000 souls were slaughtered in Paris alone and 100,000 in other sections of France, for no other reason than that they loved Christ. The guilty king suffered miserably for years after that event. He finally died, bathed in blood bursting from his veins. To his physicians he said in his last hours: “Asleep or awake, I see the mangled forms of the Huguenots passing before me. They drop with blood. They point at their open wounds. Oh! That I had spared at least the little infants at the bosom! What blood! I know not where I am. How will all this end? What shall I do? I am lost forever! I know it. Oh, I have done wrong.”
David Strauss, leading representative of German rationalism, after spending a lifetime erasing belief in God from the minds of others: “My philosophy leaves me utterly forlorn! I feel like one caught in the merciless jaws of an automatic machine, not knowing at what time one of its great hammers may crush me!”
In a Newsweek interview with Svetlana Stalin, the daughter of Josef Stalin, she told of her father’s death: “My father died a difficult and terrible death. . God grants an easy death only to the just. . At what seemed the very last moment he suddenly opened his eyes and cast a glance over everyone in the room. It was a terrible glance, insane or perhaps angry. . His left hand was raised, as though he were pointing to something above and bringing down a curse on us all. The gesture was full of menace. . The next moment he was dead.”'
Quotes of Dying Atheists and God-Haters
Whether all these quotes are true or not, I cannot say for sure. Some God-haters today will deny that such things were ever said. I am not a personal witness to them, but none of them would surprise me. Don't wait until YOU are in the place these people were before you decide to believe in a...
The beliefs and opinions of others are interesting, but we should place a higher value on our own--especially when these beliefs and opinions are built on experiences and knowledge.I must be the only one who reads the 'fear the gods'', ''atheists are going to Hell'', ''Christianity will save your soul'', ''angels are real'', etc., etc.
I see it more as a choice.Why do you equate atheism as a ''route''? You do know that non-belief in your gods as well as those who believe in gods competing with your gods is a conclusion, right?
Beliefs and opinions are fine but there's something to be said for facts and evidence. Beliefs and opinions about the supernatural are lacking facts and evidence. Thats why reason and rationality are the basis for knowledge. No one has ever come up with a useful definition of the supernatural. Something having an effect on nature makes that something a part of nature. So, any explanation for something we see in nature can be considered natural.The beliefs and opinions of others are interesting, but we should place a higher value on our own--especially when these beliefs and opinions are built on experiences and knowledge.
It's a conclusion. What separates your beliefs in particular gods from others and their beliefs / gods is geographic place of birth.I see it more as a choice.
I doubt it as most people do not take the believers' advice of having faith first. They don't even believe it when science backs up the Bible. Thus, they have to deal with what happens to them when they experience death.
Here are some quotes from dying atheists and God haters:
'Thomas Hobbs political philosopher “I say again, if I had the whole world at my disposal, I would give it to live one day. I am about to take a leap into the dark.”
Sir Francis Newport, the head of an English Atheist club to those gathered around his deathbed: “You need not tell me there is no God for I know there is one, and that I am in His presence! You need not tell me there is no hell. I feel myself already slipping. Wretches, cease your idle talk about there being hope for me! I know I am lost forever! Oh, that fire! Oh, the insufferable pangs of hell! …Oh, that I could lie for a thousand years upon the fire that is never quenched, to purchase the favor of God and be united to Him again. But it is a fruitless wish. Millions and millions of years will bring me no nearer the end of my torments than one poor hour. Oh, eternity, eternity forever and forever!, Oh, the insufferable pangs of Hell!”
David Hume, atheist philosopher famous for his philosophy of empiricism and skepticism of religion, he cried loud on his death bed “I am in flames!” It is said his “desperation was a horrible scene”.
Caesar Borgia: “While I lived, I provided for everything but death; now I must die, and am unprepared to die.
Thomas Payne the leading atheistic writer in American colonies: “Stay with me, for God’s sake; I cannot bear to be left alone , O Lord, help me! O God, what have I done to suffer so much? What will become of me hereafter? “I would give worlds if I had them, that The Age of Reason had never been published. 0 Lord, help me! Christ, help me! …No, don’t leave; stay with me! Send even a child to stay with me; for I am on the edge of Hell here alone. If ever the Devil had an agent, I have been that one.”
Anton LeVey author of the Satanic Bible and high priest of the religion dedicated to the worship of Satan. Some of his famous quotes are “There is a beast in man that needs to be exercised, not exorcised”. His dying words were “Oh my, oh my, what have I done, there is something very wrong…there is something very wrong….”
Robert Ingersoll: “O God, if there be a God, save my soul, if I have a soul!” (Some say it was this way: “Oh God, if there be a God, save my soul if I have a soul, from hell, if there be a hell!”)
Napoleon Bonaparte, the French emperor, and who, like Adolf Hitler, brought death to millions to satisfy his greedy, power-mad, selfish ambitions for world conquest: “I die before my time, and my body will be given back to the earth. Such is the fate of him who has been called the great Napoleon. What an abyss between my deep misery and the eternal kingdom of Christ!”
Sir Thomas Scott, Chancellor of England “Until this moment I thought there was neither a God nor a hell. Now I know and feel that there are both, and I am doomed to perdition by the just judgment of the Almighty.”
Charles IX was the French king who urged on by his mother, gave the order for the massacre of the French Huguenots, in which 15,000 souls were slaughtered in Paris alone and 100,000 in other sections of France, for no other reason than that they loved Christ. The guilty king suffered miserably for years after that event. He finally died, bathed in blood bursting from his veins. To his physicians he said in his last hours: “Asleep or awake, I see the mangled forms of the Huguenots passing before me. They drop with blood. They point at their open wounds. Oh! That I had spared at least the little infants at the bosom! What blood! I know not where I am. How will all this end? What shall I do? I am lost forever! I know it. Oh, I have done wrong.”
David Strauss, leading representative of German rationalism, after spending a lifetime erasing belief in God from the minds of others: “My philosophy leaves me utterly forlorn! I feel like one caught in the merciless jaws of an automatic machine, not knowing at what time one of its great hammers may crush me!”
In a Newsweek interview with Svetlana Stalin, the daughter of Josef Stalin, she told of her father’s death: “My father died a difficult and terrible death. . God grants an easy death only to the just. . At what seemed the very last moment he suddenly opened his eyes and cast a glance over everyone in the room. It was a terrible glance, insane or perhaps angry. . His left hand was raised, as though he were pointing to something above and bringing down a curse on us all. The gesture was full of menace. . The next moment he was dead.”'
Quotes of Dying Atheists and God-Haters
Whether all these quotes are true or not, I cannot say for sure. Some God-haters today will deny that such things were ever said. I am not a personal witness to them, but none of them would surprise me. Don't wait until YOU are in the place these people were before you decide to believe in a...
I wrote that I see it as a choice. I get that you see it as a conclusion--you told me so. My own conclusion is that you have no interest in hearing why I see it as a choice.It's a conclusion.
Bowling is fine, but there is something to be said for basketball. Science is also fine, but there is also something to be said for philosophy.Beliefs and opinions are fine but there's something to be said for facts and evidence.
Jimmy said, "Hell is no joke." Here's one that you could've said:Did that cut and paste Bible thumping come from your Jimmy Swaggert madrassah?
This could be your famous last words before the nether hell regions.believers in what ...
nothing about the desert religions is necessary for the rewards of spiritual freedom and admission to the everlasting ...
except belief in their forgeries and fallacies for a spirit to wither and die.
How does one care for a soul/spirit? It might be helpful if you could provide some meaningful definition we could examine before accepting such a thing needs caring for. Such things as souls is not something science or medicine can identify. I suppose if we were created by the Christian version of Gods, (as opposed to competing gods), in six literal days, six thousand years ago we could just accept, ''the bible says...'' and not question such an authority.Bowling is fine, but there is something to be said for basketball. Science is also fine, but there is also something to be said for philosophy.
Throughout human history, one philosophy we see in several cultures is one of duality, or the idea that two opposite characteristics exist in harmony and complement each other.
People of faith understand that we have a physical reality, physical needs and desires. We also believe that we are made up of body, mind, soul/spirit which also has needs and desires. The hopes and expectations between our physical wants and the wants of our spirits can often conflict. Yet our souls/spirits can and do exist in harmony and do complement each other.
People of faith--because they have a physical body--understand that the body needs care. People of faith understand their spirit/soul needs equal care.
I see it as rare thing that anyone chooses their religion. In the KSA, for example, 99.98% of the population is Islamic. That's quite a statement about choosing a religious belief, or, we accept that socio-political-geographic factors are a defining characteristic, not choice.I wrote that I see it as a choice. I get that you see it as a conclusion--you told me so. My own conclusion is that you have no interest in hearing why I see it as a choice.
Perhaps saying referencing 'dualism' isn't as clear as I thought. Starting over:How does one care for a soul/spirit? It might be helpful if you could provide some meaningful definition we could examine before accepting such a thing needs caring for.
Science does accept the difference between physical health and mental health. It can identify mental ailments from a physical ailment--various phobias for example. There is no physical cause of agoraphobia. The fear of crowds or open spaces originates in the mind or psyche.Such things as souls is not something science or medicine can identify.
I'm not clear if psyche is the same thing as the 'soul'. Your description of psyche is what we would call personality, which is a function of the brain. We know that damage or injury to the brain, in addition to various drugs used in psychiatry, can affect personality thus affecting the ''psyche''. It appears that the 'soul' is another term used interchangeably with psyche so it would appear that the soul is a human-defined term relating to personality.Perhaps saying referencing 'dualism' isn't as clear as I thought. Starting over:
People are made up of an observable physical state (body) and a mental state that is not observable to the outside world. In ancient times what came down to us as 'soul' or 'spirit' from the Hebrew world also came down to us as 'psyche' from Plato and the Greeks. Plato believed that the psyche is eternal; in Hebrew the soul/spirit is eternal.
The difference between mind and psyche is that the mind is the process of rational thought, while psyche (roughly) is more about character and emotional reactions.
Today, some atheists, while recognizing the difference between physical health and mental health, will assert that all mental health is simply neurological matter in the brain. When the physical brain dies, so does neurological action--i.e. the personhood of the physical body.
Science does accept the difference between physical health and mental health. It can identify mental ailments from a physical ailment--various phobias for example. There is no physical cause of agoraphobia. The fear of crowds or open spaces originates in the mind or psyche.
Each character trait has its opposite (duality). Patient vs impatient. One may wish to improve on his/her character by becoming more patient.How does one care for a soul/spirit?
You mean Plato's description/use of 'psyche'? I imagine Plato did see personality as part of the psyche as personality is not a physical trait. I suppose Plato could have seen personality as part of the mind (rational thought) but we would have to study up on that.I'm not clear if psyche is the same thing as the 'soul'. Your description of psyche is what we would call personality, which is a function of the brain.
Again, some atheists prefer that direction of thought--i.e. it is all neurology and the personality is made up of neuron firings and when neurons die that by-product of neuron firings that is also known as personality is no more.It appears that the 'soul' is another term used interchangeably with psyche so it would appear that the soul is a human-defined term relating to personality.
