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What real environmental protection would that be? Where would you like to spend money?
I'm glad you ask that. Part of the reason I'm so grumpy about the AGW debacle is that I'm frustrated that it has sucked the air out of true environmentalism..
I'd have the GOVT clean up it's act. It is the nations largest and most dangerous polluter. Including it's antiquated generators in the Tenn Valley Auth. and military base dumps.
From the leaking nuclear weapons waste at Hanford and Savannah river to fulfilling the promise of completing Yucca Mtn as a waste depository.
I'd figure out how to remove 100s of sq. miles of floating waste in the oceans and do better and more efficient mitigation for ocean oil spills thru engineering.
I'd cut the subsidies going to billionaires to make trophy cars for millionaires and do BASIC SCIENCE on hydrogen production and fuel cells.
Plan for a recycling infrastructure for the mountain of battery waste from the ill-conceived push for plug-in EVs.
I'd push market oriented incentives for private landowners to make provisions for nature on their lands and IMPROVE the stewardship of PUBLIC lands at the BLM and Forest Service. Consolidate STRATEGIC public lands and PLAN for habitat zones that make sense.
I'd be honest about the fallacy of using wind and solar ON GRID and instead propose meaningful work for renewables OFF GRID doing desalinization and hydrogen production.
End the subsidies for ethanol, wind, solar, and any fossil fuel as a commodity and funding or subsidies limited to only EXPLORATION and RESEARCH.
I'd figure out exactly WHY the bees are dying and how to bolster fisheries with more market oriented practices..
Plenty of stuff to work on isn't there? No reason why we got to spend all our time arguing over AGW when no one wants to fix it tomorrow by unleashing 2 decades of new nuclear plant design..
With the exception of Yucca Mountain, I can't think of a single thing on your list that either isn't being worked on or isn't being planned. I suppose you think you are the only person on the planet concerned about them, I don't know. I do know from first-hand knowledge that all of the first four have had tens of billions of dollars thrown at the problems, and substantial progress has been made on those issues. Is there more work to be done? You bet.
By the way, if you want to stop arguing over AGW, be my guest.
What price are you willing to pay to preserve this planet's biodiversity?
$100 trillion? Maybe $200 trillion?
I just hope the warming globe doesn't wipe out the mammoths and the sabertooth cats.
My kids really like those Ice Age movies.
I'd be more worried about it wiping out our food supply, if I were you.
Wasting money is fueling power plants with obsolete and costly fuels, much less building more of them.
Yes! Cheap, reliable energy is so passe.
We need some of that expensive, unreliable energy.
Bring on the photovoltaics and windmills.
Who needs power at night or those pesky birds?
Erm, the wind doesn't blow at night? When did this happen? As for the birds, the only birds I know of that conservatives have ever been concerned about were the ones they missed with their AK-47s.
The wind doesn't blow on Tuesday --- that's bad enough.. I'm not gonna attend a night race at Daytona with 140,000 fans using wind as the primary power source.. Go ahead and joke about the bird kill from wind farms. It makes you look like a serious environmentalist...
Wasting money is fueling power plants with obsolete and costly fuels, much less building more of them.
You don't have anything to worry about. Your "thoughts" have been considered and rejected. Irrelevant means off the hook. Join the whiners on stage and have at it. The theater is empty.
Wasting money is fueling power plants with obsolete and costly fuels, much less building more of them.
Yes! Cheap, reliable energy is so passe.
We need some of that expensive, unreliable energy.
Bring on the photovoltaics and windmills.
Who needs power at night or those pesky birds?
Erm, the wind doesn't blow at night? When did this happen? As for the birds, the only birds I know of that conservatives have ever been concerned about were the ones they missed with their AK-47s.
$100 trillion? Maybe $200 trillion?
I just hope the warming globe doesn't wipe out the mammoths and the sabertooth cats.
My kids really like those Ice Age movies.
I'd be more worried about it wiping out our food supply, if I were you.
Agriculture has done better during climactic optimums than during ice ages.
Erm, the wind doesn't blow at night? When did this happen? As for the birds, the only birds I know of that conservatives have ever been concerned about were the ones they missed with their AK-47s.
The wind doesn't blow on Tuesday --- that's bad enough.. I'm not gonna attend a night race at Daytona with 140,000 fans using wind as the primary power source.. Go ahead and joke about the bird kill from wind farms. It makes you look like a serious environmentalist...
Care to put that argument in context?
http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr191/Asilomar/pdfs/1029-1042.pdf
1) Domestic and feral cats have also been considered a major source of anthropogenic-caused mortality with estimates near 100 million annual bird deaths in the US.
2) On roads near wetlands in Canada 223 birds were killed per mile per year.
3) Power lines in the US are estimated to kill approximately 130 million birds per year.
4) 97.6 to 976 million bird deaths per year in the U.S. due to collisions with windows based on an estimated 1 to 10 bird deaths per structure per year from a fatality study in New York.
5 The number of birds killed by wind farms in America: between 20,000 and 37,000 a year.
I'll give you a solution.. Do a pilot demo of the top 3 selected NEW nuclear designs. Put them in some unused BLM sandlot.. Build and test the shit out of them in just 3 years. And then CERTIFY them to be replicated WITHOUT undo regulatory delays or costs..
Build or start 200 new nuclear plants by 2018. Then quit bitching about who's doing what. Strawman my ass. All you got is posturing and green delusions.
Whatchagot to keep the lights on and solve (the imagined) AGW crisis??
Not a single light has gone out and none ever will.
And why do you think we need new nuke plant designs?
What is being offered is a schizoid plan to simultaneously push electric conservation and at the SAME TIME talk about encouraging a 30% increase in Grid capacity by pushing EVs. Makes no sense. I'm pulling 1W chargers out of the wall while my neighbor is using a day's worth of juice to fill his Leaf.. Wind and Solar don't ADD capacity. They are supplements that must come second to PRIMARY generators capable of 24/7/365 generation.
The lights go out when the country realizes that the cost and furor over a major grid overhaul and generation increase is out of reach given our finances..
Your side wants electricity to be RARE and EXPENSIVE (that's the end result of "conservation")
And many of us believe that electricity should be CHEAP AND PLENTIFUL.
Cheap and plentiful rubs leftists the wrong way since they see society as a blight on the planet anyway.
Our nuclear plants are approaching 60 yrs old.. There's more computing power in a Tickle-Me-Elmo doll than a US nuclear plant. THAT'S why we need to expedite verification of latest BEST technologies and allow them to be replicated without delay.
I'd be more worried about it wiping out our food supply, if I were you.
Agriculture has done better during climactic optimums than during ice ages.
You don't know that, and neither does anyone else. Why? Because agriculture didn't exist during the ice age. And it wasn't because we tried and failed. What is undeniable is that most of the Sahara desert was green while much of Europe was buried in ice.
Irrelevant ad hominem.....There are literally hundreds of pieces on the 'net reporting on the same topic....I only picked one.
Debunk what he, along with countless others, reported, about the original (read: ORIGINAL) research on so-called "climate change" being destroyed or "lost".
Fucking bring it.
More than relevant, as is his affiliations with the fossil fuel industry and right wing organizations promoting their anti-science agenda.
What about the left wing organizations, and of course good old "I love killing Jews" Soros, that the warmists are affiliated with?
Erm, the wind doesn't blow at night? When did this happen? As for the birds, the only birds I know of that conservatives have ever been concerned about were the ones they missed with their AK-47s.
The wind doesn't blow on Tuesday --- that's bad enough.. I'm not gonna attend a night race at Daytona with 140,000 fans using wind as the primary power source.. Go ahead and joke about the bird kill from wind farms. It makes you look like a serious environmentalist...
Care to put that argument in context?
http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr191/Asilomar/pdfs/1029-1042.pdf
1) Domestic and feral cats have also been considered a major source of anthropogenic-caused mortality with estimates near 100 million annual bird deaths in the US.
2) On roads near wetlands in Canada 223 birds were killed per mile per year.
3) Power lines in the US are estimated to kill approximately 130 million birds per year.
4) 97.6 to 976 million bird deaths per year in the U.S. due to collisions with windows based on an estimated 1 to 10 bird deaths per structure per year from a fatality study in New York.
5 The number of birds killed by wind farms in America: between 20,000 and 37,000 a year.
Not a single light has gone out and none ever will.
And why do you think we need new nuke plant designs?
What is being offered is a schizoid plan to simultaneously push electric conservation and at the SAME TIME talk about encouraging a 30% increase in Grid capacity by pushing EVs. Makes no sense. I'm pulling 1W chargers out of the wall while my neighbor is using a day's worth of juice to fill his Leaf.. Wind and Solar don't ADD capacity. They are supplements that must come second to PRIMARY generators capable of 24/7/365 generation.
The lights go out when the country realizes that the cost and furor over a major grid overhaul and generation increase is out of reach given our finances..
Your side wants electricity to be RARE and EXPENSIVE (that's the end result of "conservation")
And many of us believe that electricity should be CHEAP AND PLENTIFUL.
Cheap and plentiful rubs leftists the wrong way since they see society as a blight on the planet anyway.
Our nuclear plants are approaching 60 yrs old.. There's more computing power in a Tickle-Me-Elmo doll than a US nuclear plant. THAT'S why we need to expedite verification of latest BEST technologies and allow them to be replicated without delay.
So what you are saying is that we should spend billions of dollars installing "Windows" in our nuclear plants. OMG! Perhaps you haven't thought that through.
I'm glad you ask that. Part of the reason I'm so grumpy about the AGW debacle is that I'm frustrated that it has sucked the air out of true environmentalism..
I'd have the GOVT clean up it's act. It is the nations largest and most dangerous polluter. Including it's antiquated generators in the Tenn Valley Auth. and military base dumps.
From the leaking nuclear weapons waste at Hanford and Savannah river to fulfilling the promise of completing Yucca Mtn as a waste depository.
I'd figure out how to remove 100s of sq. miles of floating waste in the oceans and do better and more efficient mitigation for ocean oil spills thru engineering.
I'd cut the subsidies going to billionaires to make trophy cars for millionaires and do BASIC SCIENCE on hydrogen production and fuel cells.
Plan for a recycling infrastructure for the mountain of battery waste from the ill-conceived push for plug-in EVs.
I'd push market oriented incentives for private landowners to make provisions for nature on their lands and IMPROVE the stewardship of PUBLIC lands at the BLM and Forest Service. Consolidate STRATEGIC public lands and PLAN for habitat zones that make sense.
I'd be honest about the fallacy of using wind and solar ON GRID and instead propose meaningful work for renewables OFF GRID doing desalinization and hydrogen production.
End the subsidies for ethanol, wind, solar, and any fossil fuel as a commodity and funding or subsidies limited to only EXPLORATION and RESEARCH.
I'd figure out exactly WHY the bees are dying and how to bolster fisheries with more market oriented practices..
Plenty of stuff to work on isn't there? No reason why we got to spend all our time arguing over AGW when no one wants to fix it tomorrow by unleashing 2 decades of new nuclear plant design..
With the exception of Yucca Mountain, I can't think of a single thing on your list that either isn't being worked on or isn't being planned. I suppose you think you are the only person on the planet concerned about them, I don't know. I do know from first-hand knowledge that all of the first four have had tens of billions of dollars thrown at the problems, and substantial progress has been made on those issues. Is there more work to be done? You bet.
By the way, if you want to stop arguing over AGW, be my guest.
Never said that any of those are new or novel.. Although the Govt works at cross purposes on many of those by funding competing technologies to the DETRIMENT of many I've mentioned. The point was --- what are the ALTERNATIVE OPPORTUNITIES for all that money.
Substantial progress has been made on cleaning up 55 gal drums of weapons waste at Hanford and Savannah River? They are 50 or 60 yrs OLD dude.. How much progress are you measuring?
Same for encouraging COOPERATION in market based incentives for private landowners to set-aside and better maintain habitat.. Most of what we're paying EPA to do is HARRASS, LITIGATE, and THREATEN. And that is not likely to change under a leftist admin with a new flaming activist as head of EPA..
With the exception of Yucca Mountain, I can't think of a single thing on your list that either isn't being worked on or isn't being planned. I suppose you think you are the only person on the planet concerned about them, I don't know. I do know from first-hand knowledge that all of the first four have had tens of billions of dollars thrown at the problems, and substantial progress has been made on those issues. Is there more work to be done? You bet.
By the way, if you want to stop arguing over AGW, be my guest.
Never said that any of those are new or novel.. Although the Govt works at cross purposes on many of those by funding competing technologies to the DETRIMENT of many I've mentioned. The point was --- what are the ALTERNATIVE OPPORTUNITIES for all that money.
Substantial progress has been made on cleaning up 55 gal drums of weapons waste at Hanford and Savannah River? They are 50 or 60 yrs OLD dude.. How much progress are you measuring?
Same for encouraging COOPERATION in market based incentives for private landowners to set-aside and better maintain habitat.. Most of what we're paying EPA to do is HARRASS, LITIGATE, and THREATEN. And that is not likely to change under a leftist admin with a new flaming activist as head of EPA..
I have a very close friend who works at the EPA region 4 office. She has conducted remediation operations at Savannah River for the past 15 years. And it was going on before she got there. The EPA does what it does because that is what it is mandated to do by Congress and the American people to do. If you want "COOPERATION in market based incentives for private landowners to set-aside and better maintain habitat" there are other agencies that are better suited at handling that sort of thing. Fish and Wildlife, U.S.D.A, National Park Service, BLM, and others.
The wind doesn't blow on Tuesday --- that's bad enough.. I'm not gonna attend a night race at Daytona with 140,000 fans using wind as the primary power source.. Go ahead and joke about the bird kill from wind farms. It makes you look like a serious environmentalist...
Care to put that argument in context?
http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr191/Asilomar/pdfs/1029-1042.pdf
1) Domestic and feral cats have also been considered a major source of anthropogenic-caused mortality with estimates near 100 million annual bird deaths in the US.
2) On roads near wetlands in Canada 223 birds were killed per mile per year.
3) Power lines in the US are estimated to kill approximately 130 million birds per year.
4) 97.6 to 976 million bird deaths per year in the U.S. due to collisions with windows based on an estimated 1 to 10 bird deaths per structure per year from a fatality study in New York.
5 The number of birds killed by wind farms in America: between 20,000 and 37,000 a year.
white-throated needletail : The Two-Way : NPR
You're right, we kill too many birds, kill some more!!!
Agriculture has done better during climactic optimums than during ice ages.
You don't know that, and neither does anyone else. Why? Because agriculture didn't exist during the ice age. And it wasn't because we tried and failed. What is undeniable is that most of the Sahara desert was green while much of Europe was buried in ice.
You don't know that, and neither does anyone else.
Really? I'm pretty sure I read something about a wine industry in England and spreading Viking settlements during warm periods and famine during cold periods.
The wind doesn't blow on Tuesday --- that's bad enough.. I'm not gonna attend a night race at Daytona with 140,000 fans using wind as the primary power source.. Go ahead and joke about the bird kill from wind farms. It makes you look like a serious environmentalist...
Care to put that argument in context?
http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/documents/psw_gtr191/Asilomar/pdfs/1029-1042.pdf
1) Domestic and feral cats have also been considered a major source of anthropogenic-caused mortality with estimates near 100 million annual bird deaths in the US.
2) On roads near wetlands in Canada 223 birds were killed per mile per year.
3) Power lines in the US are estimated to kill approximately 130 million birds per year.
4) 97.6 to 976 million bird deaths per year in the U.S. due to collisions with windows based on an estimated 1 to 10 bird deaths per structure per year from a fatality study in New York.
5 The number of birds killed by wind farms in America: between 20,000 and 37,000 a year.
Add bats to that list.. Their little hearts EXPLODE even in proximity to a turbine blade.
Last time I checked -- just a single eagle kill was a felony..
Maybe the Canadians ought to stop building roads thru wetlands..
I'll remember this conversation next time there's an oil spill.
DID YA GO TO THE THREAD I POSTED????
Never said that any of those are new or novel.. Although the Govt works at cross purposes on many of those by funding competing technologies to the DETRIMENT of many I've mentioned. The point was --- what are the ALTERNATIVE OPPORTUNITIES for all that money.
Substantial progress has been made on cleaning up 55 gal drums of weapons waste at Hanford and Savannah River? They are 50 or 60 yrs OLD dude.. How much progress are you measuring?
Same for encouraging COOPERATION in market based incentives for private landowners to set-aside and better maintain habitat.. Most of what we're paying EPA to do is HARRASS, LITIGATE, and THREATEN. And that is not likely to change under a leftist admin with a new flaming activist as head of EPA..
I have a very close friend who works at the EPA region 4 office. She has conducted remediation operations at Savannah River for the past 15 years. And it was going on before she got there. The EPA does what it does because that is what it is mandated to do by Congress and the American people to do. If you want "COOPERATION in market based incentives for private landowners to set-aside and better maintain habitat" there are other agencies that are better suited at handling that sort of thing. Fish and Wildlife, U.S.D.A, National Park Service, BLM, and others.
There is no comparison between what the Nature Conservancy can leverage with their land management programs and the BLM.. The Nature Conservancy is FAR Better at getting cooperative agreements and BUYING key land.
I'd be more worried about it wiping out our food supply, if I were you.
Agriculture has done better during climactic optimums than during ice ages.
You don't know that, and neither does anyone else. Why? Because agriculture didn't exist during the ice age. And it wasn't because we tried and failed. What is undeniable is that most of the Sahara desert was green while much of Europe was buried in ice.
You don't know that, and neither does anyone else. Why? Because agriculture didn't exist during the ice age. And it wasn't because we tried and failed. What is undeniable is that most of the Sahara desert was green while much of Europe was buried in ice.
You don't know that, and neither does anyone else.
Really? I'm pretty sure I read something about a wine industry in England and spreading Viking settlements during warm periods and famine during cold periods.
Yeah, and there were probably 10,000 people in all of the British Isles at the time. What a thriving industry that was.
