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Aaaaaaaaand Flopper just defeated his own argument. How can we rank other nations against each other when there is no global governing body to (and I quote) "set standards for testing, data collection, and analysis" resulting in (and I quote again) "each nation collecting data to show they are the best".no data to rank the nation against other countries.
[Q
Without the DOE setting standards for testing, data collection, and analysis, each state would go their own way. There would be no national report card, no nationwide test score analysis no data to rank the nation against other countries.
The situation would be similar to the days before the FBI set the standards for crime reporting. Each state and municipality would collect data to show they are the best.
You are the one confused, the federal government cost tax payers a hell of a lot more than $80 billion dollars. We spend over 600 billion just on defense.The total amount spend on k-12 public education is 620 billion dollars a year. The US Dept of Education K-12 spending is 9.7 billion. State and Local government provides 98.4% of K-12 educational funding. The remaining .6% comes from the US Dept. of Education. Other government agencies, provide support for various programs such as the School Lunch Program.[Q
These filthy grants, makes college attendance possible for 5.6 million students, and an education possible for 6 million disable kids.
I am sorry but I don't want the filthy ass Federal government taking my money by force and then spending it on some stupid bureaucratic education program that produces poor education results. The Feds spent a boat load of money on these stupid programs but each year the US falls further behind in education. It is a despicable waste of money. Money and bureaucracies do not produce good education.
It is not my responsibility to pay for the education of other people when the money is decided how to be spent by Federal bureaucrats whose bosses are elected by greedy special interest groups like teacher's unions.
On a local level I don't mind some of my tax money being pooled for education providing I get some choice in how the money is spent for my children.
The Federal government does not need to be in the business of education. That is one of the reasons it has become a bloated corrupt oppressive debt ridden burden on the American people.
School districts are not being forced to accept funding from US Dept of Education. They can just say no. They are under no obligation to implement any of the DOE recommended programs. As long as local school districts can comply with federal laws such as civil rights, the disability act, no child left behind, etc. they can go their own way and ignore the US DOE. However, I doubt you can find a school district in this country that thinks they don't need help from federal government.
You are confused Moon Bat.
That filthy ass Federal government bureaucracy cost the American taxpayer's $80 billion a year and they are asking for an increase of $140 billion over the next few years.
A good portion of that is welfare to the bloated ineffective fiscally irresponsible big city shittholes that can't manage their own education budget. The same shithead school districts run by Moon Bats that spends one day in the American history class discussing the Cold War, Korea and Vietnam and three fucking weeks discussing Martin Luther King Jr.
In the meantime all this money is being spent and has produced no improvements in education results. In fact we are sliding downward.
The Depart of Education also hands out Federal grants and loans for college students that have contributed to soaring inflation in tuition costs. Student grant and loan programs have also been subject to high levels of fraud and abuse. I don't know about you but it is not my responsibility as a taxpayer to give money to some affirmative action asshole that has no intention of ever paying back the money. It is their responsibility to pay for their own college.
[Q
You are one confused, the federal government cost tax payers a hell of a lot more than $80 billion dollars. We spend over 600 billion just on defense.
Common Core is a state‐led effort that is not part of No Child Left Behind or any other federal initiative. The federal government played no role in the development of the Common Core. State adoption of the standards is in no way mandatory. Currently 42 states have adopted common core. Most of the states that have rejected common core are implementing parts of it as developed and modifying other parts.[Q
Without the DOE setting standards for testing, data collection, and analysis, each state would go their own way. There would be no national report card, no nationwide test score analysis no data to rank the nation against other countries.
The situation would be similar to the days before the FBI set the standards for crime reporting. Each state and municipality would collect data to show they are the best.
What is wrong with State and local control over the education curriculum? I don't want the children to be brain washed by stupid Moon Bat bureaucrats whose bosses are corrupt career politicians elected by special interest groups. That is why we get stupid shit like Common Core. I don't want Federal guidelines.
In decades past we made tremendous advances in science and business by people that were that were mostly educated by local school systems long before the Fderal DOE became a massive bureaucracy. We simply don't need it. We don't need the taxes that it cost us and we sure as hell don't need the failures that we get out of them or the frigging oppression and brainwashing that comes with Big Brother control.
My wife was educated in a one room school managed by a small local school district and I guarantee you when she graduated she was much more literate and educated and ready for college than any of the massive Federally subsidized school districts that cost the taxpayer's an arm and a leg. She actually knew Math, English, Geography, History and she had studied the Constitution. That is a much different education than these semi illiterate students that we are turning out nowadays.
A few years ago I attended a night course in machining at the local Jr College. I wanted to learn how to use a lath and mill for gunsmithing. The instructor was trying to teach simple math to the students. The three older guys in the class (including myself) had to work one on one with the younger students to teach them very simple artimetic and fractions because they weren't getting it. They were the product of this massive bloated education system that guarantees graduation but fails in education.
I am an Environmental Engineer that retired in 2003. In 2004-2007 I taught Environmental Science 101 part time in an university. Usually only one class per quarter. I was told by the department head to keep math at a minimum because many of the students did not have the math skills to understand anything too complex.
That is what we are turning out nowadays.
Don't be so sure. The Republicans have already introduced a bill to abolish that unconstitutional monstrosity.I won't get my desire for the department to be abolished...
Folks - you just can't make this stuff up. More Flopper Fake News. Common Core is not "state-led". If it were, 42 states wouldn't have "adopted it". 42 states would have their own curriculum. It was created by Bill Gates and shoved down the throats of the states by the federal government under the "accept it or you don't get our illegal federal funds" tactic.Common Core is a state‐led effort that is not part of No Child Left Behind or any other federal initiative. The federal government played no role in the development of the Common Core. State adoption of the standards is in no way mandatory. Currently 42 states have adopted common core. Most of the states that have rejected common core are implementing parts of it as developed and modifying other parts.
Before commenting on common core, you might take the time to at least read what it is and not what the alt right claims it is.
About the Standards | Common Core State Standards Initiative
Myths vs. Facts | Common Core State Standards Initiative
Doing away with the Dept Education would be very difficult because there are so many major tasks the DOE does that states would want no part in. For example there's administering the giant problem filled 1.2 trillion dollar college loan portfolio, administering Pell Grants, resolving civil rights and disability violations claims, so they don't end up in court and managing national educational data collection standards.[Q
You are one confused, the federal government cost tax payers a hell of a lot more than $80 billion dollars. We spend over 600 billion just on defense.
Defense is one of the few legitimate functions of a Federal government. Your Boy Obama was at war every day of his administration and he needed the money. I didn't see you bitching about his war mongering.
$80 billion is what we waste at the Federal level on failed education programs that produce very poor results. The Federal government waste a lot of money. The Department of Education is near the top of that list.
I won't get my desire for the department to be abolished but hopefully Trump and DeVos will get it under control a little bit. That is better than nothing, don't you agree?
State and districts have 100% control of curriculum. By law the federal government can not dictate curriculum. However, there is one caveat. If the district has applied for and wins a grant to offer a particular course or series course, they are legally required to abide by the terms of the grant even if parents don't like it. This has happened and of course garnered headlines about the feds forcing schools to teach..... However, this is rare.[Q
Without the DOE setting standards for testing, data collection, and analysis, each state would go their own way. There would be no national report card, no nationwide test score analysis no data to rank the nation against other countries.
The situation would be similar to the days before the FBI set the standards for crime reporting. Each state and municipality would collect data to show they are the best.
What is wrong with State and local control over the education curriculum? I don't want the children to be brain washed by stupid Moon Bat bureaucrats whose bosses are corrupt career politicians elected by special interest groups. That is why we get stupid shit like Common Core. I don't want Federal guidelines.
In decades past we made tremendous advances in science and business by people that were that were mostly educated by local school systems long before the Fderal DOE became a massive bureaucracy. We simply don't need it. We don't need the taxes that it cost us and we sure as hell don't need the failures that we get out of them or the frigging oppression and brainwashing that comes with Big Brother control.
My wife was educated in a one room school managed by a small local school district and I guarantee you when she graduated she was much more literate and educated and ready for college than any of the massive Federally subsidized school districts that cost the taxpayer's an arm and a leg. She actually knew Math, English, Geography, History and she had studied the Constitution. That is a much different education than these semi illiterate students that we are turning out nowadays.
A few years ago I attended a night course in machining at the local Jr College. I wanted to learn how to use a lath and mill for gunsmithing. The instructor was trying to teach simple math to the students. The three older guys in the class (including myself) had to work one on one with the younger students to teach them very simple artimetic and fractions because they weren't getting it. They were the product of this massive bloated education system that guarantees graduation but fails in education.
I am an Environmental Engineer that retired in 2003. In 2004-2007 I taught Environmental Science 101 part time in an university. Usually only one class per quarter. I was told by the department head to keep math at a minimum because many of the students did not have the math skills to understand anything too complex.
That is what we are turning out nowadays.
By law - the Department of Education cannot even exist.State and districts have 100% control of curriculum. By law the federal government can not dictate curriculum.
Would those be the same "top countries" whose citizens risk their lives to come here and become U.S. citizens.Lastly, almost all of the top countries have strong centralized control of education.
You completely ignored the point that you're a dumbass, didn't you?[
Yeah, he's not a rocket scientist like you, eh?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I'd settle for a mental midget at the moment. I don't think he even makes the grade there....you're almost there, though my short, bald, fat friend...
It's the same old leftwing bullshit: Symbolism over substance.We're 36 pages in and you've still yet to even attempt to articulate why a "national report card" is necessary - much less actually articulate one. Your silence on this matter is duly noted.There would be no national report card
(IE you're just parroting desperate hatriot talking points which were poorly constructed because they were created by the low IQ left-wing hatriots who never think things through)
State and districts have 100% control of curriculum. By law the federal government can not dictate curriculum. However, there is one caveat. If the district has applied for and wins a grant to offer a particular course or series course, they are legally required to abide by the terms of the grant even if parents don't like it. This has happened and of course garnered headlines about the feds forcing schools to teach..... However, this is rare.[Q
Without the DOE setting standards for testing, data collection, and analysis, each state would go their own way. There would be no national report card, no nationwide test score analysis no data to rank the nation against other countries.
The situation would be similar to the days before the FBI set the standards for crime reporting. Each state and municipality would collect data to show they are the best.
What is wrong with State and local control over the education curriculum? I don't want the children to be brain washed by stupid Moon Bat bureaucrats whose bosses are corrupt career politicians elected by special interest groups. That is why we get stupid shit like Common Core. I don't want Federal guidelines.
In decades past we made tremendous advances in science and business by people that were that were mostly educated by local school systems long before the Fderal DOE became a massive bureaucracy. We simply don't need it. We don't need the taxes that it cost us and we sure as hell don't need the failures that we get out of them or the frigging oppression and brainwashing that comes with Big Brother control.
My wife was educated in a one room school managed by a small local school district and I guarantee you when she graduated she was much more literate and educated and ready for college than any of the massive Federally subsidized school districts that cost the taxpayer's an arm and a leg. She actually knew Math, English, Geography, History and she had studied the Constitution. That is a much different education than these semi illiterate students that we are turning out nowadays.
A few years ago I attended a night course in machining at the local Jr College. I wanted to learn how to use a lath and mill for gunsmithing. The instructor was trying to teach simple math to the students. The three older guys in the class (including myself) had to work one on one with the younger students to teach them very simple artimetic and fractions because they weren't getting it. They were the product of this massive bloated education system that guarantees graduation but fails in education.
I am an Environmental Engineer that retired in 2003. In 2004-2007 I taught Environmental Science 101 part time in an university. Usually only one class per quarter. I was told by the department head to keep math at a minimum because many of the students did not have the math skills to understand anything too complex.
That is what we are turning out nowadays.
In most states the state DOE either creates district guidelines or the complete curriculum. Many larger districts have curriculum specialist that do much of the work. The US DOE, often makes recommendations based on success of other districts and research grants. However, the districts are not required to follow those recommendations.
Maybe you should keep an open mind as to achievement in schools. Before jumping to the conclusion that American kids are poorly educated compared to other countries, you need to look at those countries. One of the major reasons our kids don't score as high is that we have stacked the deck against us.
- We have compulsory education which requires we keep the worst students in school which drags down average test scores. Many of the top countries only require kids to attend school through elementary school or age 14.
- We allow students, even with low achievement scores, the freedom to choose a college prep track as opposed to a vocational track which again drags down test score averages.
- Lastly, almost all of the top countries have strong centralized control of education. Districts have limited input. When policies or techniques are discovered that improve student performance, it's implemented throughout the country, not presented just as a recommendation to a district or province.
When you say "we", I'm not sure who you mean. However, the 6 million Pell grant receipts are certainly not included in your "we". 73% of the recipients have a family income of less than $50,000 yr, a grade point avearage 3.0 to 4.0. and an SAT score of 1200 to 1600. Kids from these families would never be able to afford college without those grants. Also, your "we" would certainly not include the 73% of all college students with federal student loans which are funded and administered through the Dept of Education.State and districts have 100% control of curriculum. By law the federal government can not dictate curriculum. However, there is one caveat. If the district has applied for and wins a grant to offer a particular course or series course, they are legally required to abide by the terms of the grant even if parents don't like it. This has happened and of course garnered headlines about the feds forcing schools to teach..... However, this is rare.[Q
Without the DOE setting standards for testing, data collection, and analysis, each state would go their own way. There would be no national report card, no nationwide test score analysis no data to rank the nation against other countries.
The situation would be similar to the days before the FBI set the standards for crime reporting. Each state and municipality would collect data to show they are the best.
What is wrong with State and local control over the education curriculum? I don't want the children to be brain washed by stupid Moon Bat bureaucrats whose bosses are corrupt career politicians elected by special interest groups. That is why we get stupid shit like Common Core. I don't want Federal guidelines.
In decades past we made tremendous advances in science and business by people that were that were mostly educated by local school systems long before the Fderal DOE became a massive bureaucracy. We simply don't need it. We don't need the taxes that it cost us and we sure as hell don't need the failures that we get out of them or the frigging oppression and brainwashing that comes with Big Brother control.
My wife was educated in a one room school managed by a small local school district and I guarantee you when she graduated she was much more literate and educated and ready for college than any of the massive Federally subsidized school districts that cost the taxpayer's an arm and a leg. She actually knew Math, English, Geography, History and she had studied the Constitution. That is a much different education than these semi illiterate students that we are turning out nowadays.
A few years ago I attended a night course in machining at the local Jr College. I wanted to learn how to use a lath and mill for gunsmithing. The instructor was trying to teach simple math to the students. The three older guys in the class (including myself) had to work one on one with the younger students to teach them very simple artimetic and fractions because they weren't getting it. They were the product of this massive bloated education system that guarantees graduation but fails in education.
I am an Environmental Engineer that retired in 2003. In 2004-2007 I taught Environmental Science 101 part time in an university. Usually only one class per quarter. I was told by the department head to keep math at a minimum because many of the students did not have the math skills to understand anything too complex.
That is what we are turning out nowadays.
In most states the state DOE either creates district guidelines or the complete curriculum. Many larger districts have curriculum specialist that do much of the work. The US DOE, often makes recommendations based on success of other districts and research grants. However, the districts are not required to follow those recommendations.
Maybe you should keep an open mind as to achievement in schools. Before jumping to the conclusion that American kids are poorly educated compared to other countries, you need to look at those countries. One of the major reasons our kids don't score as high is that we have stacked the deck against us.
- We have compulsory education which requires we keep the worst students in school which drags down average test scores. Many of the top countries only require kids to attend school through elementary school or age 14.
- We allow students, even with low achievement scores, the freedom to choose a college prep track as opposed to a vocational track which again drags down test score averages.
- Lastly, almost all of the top countries have strong centralized control of education. Districts have limited input. When policies or techniques are discovered that improve student performance, it's implemented throughout the country, not presented just as a recommendation to a district or province.
There are many reasons for failed education. The point that I have been trying to make is that we get nothing of substance for the $80 billion a year the filthy ass Federal governments spends each year.
I sent my sons to a private school. The cost per student was about one third the cost the county was spending and the school had no Federal money. Each year when the district ranking came out this school scored very high, usually in the top three. In fact it was the private schools in the area that always scored the highest. The government schools did poorly.
Money doesn't do a damn thing to produce good education. Federal money is a big waste.
[Q
When you say "we", I'm not sure who you mean. However, the 6 million Pell grant receipts are certainly not included in your "we". 73% of the recipients have a family income of less than $50,000 yr, a grade point avearage 3.0 to 4.0. and an SAT score of 1200 to 1600. Kids from these families would never be able to afford college without those grants. Also, your "we" would certainly not include the 73% of all college students with federal student loans which are funded and administered through the Dept of Education.
I believe almost anything you say about your local schools because there is almost no consistency in schools in the US. Per student funding in a district in New York state is 10 times that of a district in Oklahoma. The top state in student performance in the country, Massachusetts which spends almost twice the amount per student as Louisiana, the worst state. Yet the worst performing school in the country is located in Massachusetts which also has 2 of the top ten best performing schools in the country. The problems is that there is no unified approach to education in the country. The Dept of Education can recommend and offer grants as an inducement to local K-12 but it can not force districts to increase revenue or to adopt curriculum and techniques proven to be effective.
When you say "we", I'm not sure who you mean. However, the 6 million Pell grant receipts are certainly not included in your "we". 73% of the recipients have a family income of less than $50,000 yr, a grade point avearage 3.0 to 4.0. and an SAT score of 1200 to 1600. Kids from these families would never be able to afford college without those grants. Also, your "we" would certainly not include the 73% of all college students with federal student loans which are funded and administered through the Dept of Education.State and districts have 100% control of curriculum. By law the federal government can not dictate curriculum. However, there is one caveat. If the district has applied for and wins a grant to offer a particular course or series course, they are legally required to abide by the terms of the grant even if parents don't like it. This has happened and of course garnered headlines about the feds forcing schools to teach..... However, this is rare.[Q
Without the DOE setting standards for testing, data collection, and analysis, each state would go their own way. There would be no national report card, no nationwide test score analysis no data to rank the nation against other countries.
The situation would be similar to the days before the FBI set the standards for crime reporting. Each state and municipality would collect data to show they are the best.
What is wrong with State and local control over the education curriculum? I don't want the children to be brain washed by stupid Moon Bat bureaucrats whose bosses are corrupt career politicians elected by special interest groups. That is why we get stupid shit like Common Core. I don't want Federal guidelines.
In decades past we made tremendous advances in science and business by people that were that were mostly educated by local school systems long before the Fderal DOE became a massive bureaucracy. We simply don't need it. We don't need the taxes that it cost us and we sure as hell don't need the failures that we get out of them or the frigging oppression and brainwashing that comes with Big Brother control.
My wife was educated in a one room school managed by a small local school district and I guarantee you when she graduated she was much more literate and educated and ready for college than any of the massive Federally subsidized school districts that cost the taxpayer's an arm and a leg. She actually knew Math, English, Geography, History and she had studied the Constitution. That is a much different education than these semi illiterate students that we are turning out nowadays.
A few years ago I attended a night course in machining at the local Jr College. I wanted to learn how to use a lath and mill for gunsmithing. The instructor was trying to teach simple math to the students. The three older guys in the class (including myself) had to work one on one with the younger students to teach them very simple artimetic and fractions because they weren't getting it. They were the product of this massive bloated education system that guarantees graduation but fails in education.
I am an Environmental Engineer that retired in 2003. In 2004-2007 I taught Environmental Science 101 part time in an university. Usually only one class per quarter. I was told by the department head to keep math at a minimum because many of the students did not have the math skills to understand anything too complex.
That is what we are turning out nowadays.
In most states the state DOE either creates district guidelines or the complete curriculum. Many larger districts have curriculum specialist that do much of the work. The US DOE, often makes recommendations based on success of other districts and research grants. However, the districts are not required to follow those recommendations.
Maybe you should keep an open mind as to achievement in schools. Before jumping to the conclusion that American kids are poorly educated compared to other countries, you need to look at those countries. One of the major reasons our kids don't score as high is that we have stacked the deck against us.
- We have compulsory education which requires we keep the worst students in school which drags down average test scores. Many of the top countries only require kids to attend school through elementary school or age 14.
- We allow students, even with low achievement scores, the freedom to choose a college prep track as opposed to a vocational track which again drags down test score averages.
- Lastly, almost all of the top countries have strong centralized control of education. Districts have limited input. When policies or techniques are discovered that improve student performance, it's implemented throughout the country, not presented just as a recommendation to a district or province.
There are many reasons for failed education. The point that I have been trying to make is that we get nothing of substance for the $80 billion a year the filthy ass Federal governments spends each year.
I sent my sons to a private school. The cost per student was about one third the cost the county was spending and the school had no Federal money. Each year when the district ranking came out this school scored very high, usually in the top three. In fact it was the private schools in the area that always scored the highest. The government schools did poorly.
Money doesn't do a damn thing to produce good education. Federal money is a big waste.
I believe almost anything you say about your local schools because there is almost no consistency in schools in the US. Per student funding in a district in New York state is 10 times that of a district in Oklahoma. The top state in student performance in the country is Massachusetts which spends almost twice the amount per student as Louisiana, the worst state. Yet the worst performing school in the country is located in Massachusetts which also has 2 of the top ten best performing schools in the country. The problems is that there is no unified approach to education in the country. The Dept of Education can recommend and offer grants as an inducement to local K-12 but it can not force districts to increase revenue or to adopt curriculum and techniques proven to be effective.
You pay taxes to educate others because in addition to legally requirements, you benefit by having educated neighbors and living in a country with educated citizens and so our country benefits by having an educated workforce.[Q
When you say "we", I'm not sure who you mean. However, the 6 million Pell grant receipts are certainly not included in your "we". 73% of the recipients have a family income of less than $50,000 yr, a grade point avearage 3.0 to 4.0. and an SAT score of 1200 to 1600. Kids from these families would never be able to afford college without those grants. Also, your "we" would certainly not include the 73% of all college students with federal student loans which are funded and administered through the Dept of Education.
I believe almost anything you say about your local schools because there is almost no consistency in schools in the US. Per student funding in a district in New York state is 10 times that of a district in Oklahoma. The top state in student performance in the country, Massachusetts which spends almost twice the amount per student as Louisiana, the worst state. Yet the worst performing school in the country is located in Massachusetts which also has 2 of the top ten best performing schools in the country. The problems is that there is no unified approach to education in the country. The Dept of Education can recommend and offer grants as an inducement to local K-12 but it can not force districts to increase revenue or to adopt curriculum and techniques proven to be effective.
Why in the hell should the oppressive government be allowed to take my money by force and then give it away to somebody else to pay for their college? Pell grants are government thievery. The government is stealing my money and giving it to somebody else and that is despicable. I'll pay my own bills and you can pay yours and that includes college.. If you can't afford college then that is your problem not mine. The government should never be in the business of taking money from somebody that earned it and giving it away to somebody else that didn't earn it.
We don't need a unified approach to education. The problem with that is having stupid bureaucrats whose bosses are corrupt politicians making the rules for what is unified. The better approach is to concentrate on reading, writing and arithmetic and keeping it on the community level. Keep it out of the hands of the big government assholes.
