Greatest thread to human civilization : capitalist greed - Stephen Hawkin

[The Rabbi]

I see what US "prosperity" has been recently. You can keep it.

That was a quick surrender to reality. Thanks for the play.

Surrender? You misspelled "dismissal."
You do not know what "US strategic reserve policy" is. You do not understand how or even if it relates to protectionism. You cannot define "useful money" (as opposed to?). You assert "low energy cost" without any meaningful comparison. You drag in the oil export ban as an example of protectionism. Hint: Protectionism restricts IMPORTS,not Exports.
You are an utter and complete failure because you regurgitate terms and words you heard on Maddow or something and think you understand what they are. And also think you can win some debate by invoking them, like a magic spell.
Your bullshit is way too painfully obvious.

You've given up. Clearly our strategic reserves are trade protections that have underpinned prosperity in the US. Of course protection can include exports. It is in US law as such, and part of our energy and monetary policy.

Your post does not account for the Wackernagel Effect or Moore's Law in calculating ballistic coefficients off the meplat.
SOrry. That's a fail, son.

You've been knocked out and you're swinging at nursing staff next week.

LOL. Come back when you'ev studied the implications of the Pitt Doctrine on entropy and can bring some actual knowledge here.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Whatever it was that was keeping the pro-socialism and anti-capitalist voices down clearly isn't doing so any more. This should be interesting. .

IMHO Economic times get tough and the socialist "gub'mint take someone elses shit and gimme free stuff!" mentality comes to the surface, times get good and all of sudden everyone is pro-capitalism again.

Of course if gub'mint would stop attempting to manipulate the marketplace so much times would never get so tough in the first place......

In my sick little world, the success of most endeavors hinges on the identification of, and respect for, equilibrium. Personally, and I don't think we're going to agree on this, it looks pretty clear to me that we have lost the equilibrium that is required to keep capitalism functioning at an optimum level for all. In other words, yeah, the disparity between top and bottom is too large right now to maintain a healthy society for long, and we're seeing that manifest.

But here's what scares me: As you point out, we tend to knee-jerk, maybe that's a standard human frailty. And what concerns me is this current push towards a Euro-socialist system will go too far.

On a spectrum, and we'll disagree on this too, I'm about half way between where we are now and a Euro-socialist system. BUT I can easily see the Left gaining TOO much momentum and taking it too far.

There, chew on THAT one for a minute.
.

========
The pendulum swings both ways. It has been on the Conservative side much longer than normal and it is way overdue to swing back to the Liberal side. Excesses of unregulated capitalism have brought us the last depression with the stock market problems and banking system problems --- all traceable to unrestrained greed and unregulated capitalism.

 

[The Rabbi]

Whatever it was that was keeping the pro-socialism and anti-capitalist voices down clearly isn't doing so any more. This should be interesting. .

IMHO Economic times get tough and the socialist "gub'mint take someone elses shit and gimme free stuff!" mentality comes to the surface, times get good and all of sudden everyone is pro-capitalism again.

Of course if gub'mint would stop attempting to manipulate the marketplace so much times would never get so tough in the first place......

In my sick little world, the success of most endeavors hinges on the identification of, and respect for, equilibrium. Personally, and I don't think we're going to agree on this, it looks pretty clear to me that we have lost the equilibrium that is required to keep capitalism functioning at an optimum level for all. In other words, yeah, the disparity between top and bottom is too large right now to maintain a healthy society for long, and we're seeing that manifest.

But here's what scares me: As you point out, we tend to knee-jerk, maybe that's a standard human frailty. And what concerns me is this current push towards a Euro-socialist system will go too far.

On a spectrum, and we'll disagree on this too, I'm about half way between where we are now and a Euro-socialist system. BUT I can easily see the Left gaining TOO much momentum and taking it too far.

There, chew on THAT one for a minute.
.

========
The pendulum swings both ways. It has been on the Conservative side much longer than normal and it is way overdue to swing back to the Liberal side. Excesses of unregulated capitalism have brought us the last depression with the stock market problems and banking system problems --- all traceable to unrestrained greed and unregulated capitalism.

Um, excuse me but Democrats have controlled some part of Congress from 2007 to 2014. Obama has been president for 7 years.
There was no unregulated capitalism. The banking system was already one of the most regulated areas of the economy. Now we have even more regulation, including the Internet, and the result of all this is the worst economic growth on record. There is no unrestrained greed. You dont know what you are talking about.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Hawkins also believes there is a race of violent technologically advanced aliens that is going to attack the earth and kill us all...

========
Logically, it is very likely that any race of beings who advanced to space travel level would be very much like us.

And mankind is the most efficient killer ever seen on this planet.

Man is the ONLY animal that kills for FUN.

If we developed space travel and went to ( let's say Mars just as an example ) and discovered an active underground civilization of sentient beings ... we would wipe them out and take over...if we could.

No doubt about it.

There would be a thriving business in ' alien souvenirs ' and ' alien art ' but the aliens themselves we would wipe out unless they tasted good then we would breed them for slaughter.

 

[Arizona Willie]

========
The pendulum swings both ways. It has been on the Conservative side much longer than normal and it is way overdue to swing back to the Liberal side. Excesses of unregulated capitalism have brought us the last depression with the stock market problems and banking system problems --- all traceable to unrestrained greed and unregulated capitalism.

Um, excuse me but Democrats have controlled some part of Congress from 2007 to 2014. Obama has been president for 7 years.
There was no unregulated capitalism. The banking system was already one of the most regulated areas of the economy. Now we have even more regulation, including the Internet, and the result of all this is the worst economic growth on record. There is no unrestrained greed. You dont know what you are talking about.[/QUOTE]
========
GFY

 

[The Rabbi]

========
The pendulum swings both ways. It has been on the Conservative side much longer than normal and it is way overdue to swing back to the Liberal side. Excesses of unregulated capitalism have brought us the last depression with the stock market problems and banking system problems --- all traceable to unrestrained greed and unregulated capitalism.

Um, excuse me but Democrats have controlled some part of Congress from 2007 to 2014. Obama has been president for 7 years.
There was no unregulated capitalism. The banking system was already one of the most regulated areas of the economy. Now we have even more regulation, including the Internet, and the result of all this is the worst economic growth on record. There is no unrestrained greed. You dont know what you are talking about.

========
GFY[/QUOTE]
Just the reasoned, well expressed argument I expect from a liberal retard when confronted with actual fact which differ from his distorted world view.

 

[NightFox]

========
The pendulum swings both ways. It has been on the Conservative side much longer than normal and it is way overdue to swing back to the Liberal side. Excesses of unregulated capitalism have brought us the last depression with the stock market problems and banking system problems --- all traceable to unrestrained greed and unregulated capitalism.

Where ever did you get the idea that our capital markets and banking system is "unregulated"? You also don't acknowledge the role the federal reserve and federal fiscal policy played in bringing us the "last depression".. just a summary of the basic highlights

1 - the Federal Reserve (along with other central banks around the globe) engaged in aggressive money supply expansion, one of the results of this was a glut of capital around the globe looking for low risk fixed income investments
2 - Alan Greenspan signaled to the world markets that UI.S. Treasuries rates would remain at historically low levels for the foreseeable future (he said it outright) this drove that glut of capital directly into the arms of the U.S. Housing market.
3 - "Ownership Society" policies applied downward pressure on lending standards at both the direct lender and loan aggregation level
4 - The result of 1,2 and 3 was a sudden spike in demand for MBS products, the investment banks responded by providing upstream pressure to further reduce lending standards (i.e. they were supply constrained with respect to new mortgages).
5 - Regulators looked the other way on things like CDS products (where the risk chains were completely opaque) and CDO products where arcane financial engineering resulted in products whose real risk could not be known accurately.
6 - The Treasury Department & Fed acted to reinforce the environment of moral hazard that existed on Wall Street by back stopping the Bear Stearns buyout (by Morgan) they missed an opportunity to send a clear signal to the Investment Banks that the party was over, instead the signal that was sent was the implicit bail out sentiment that existed on Wall Street had become explicit. They later reversed this by refusing to provide similar back stops for Lehman......

The bottom line is that Monetary and Fiscal policies did the lions share of the work in creating the conditions necessary for the financial collapse, no doubt Wall Street Bankers acted irresponsibly, dishonestly and in many cases outright stupidly but it is a mistaken to blame the episode solely on Wall Street and it is a HUGE mistake to think they were "unregulated", from a pure national registry and manpower standpoint the financial sector is highly regulated (when the regulators are actually competent and willing to do their jobs).

 

[Programmer]

That was a quick surrender to reality. Thanks for the play.

Surrender? You misspelled "dismissal."
You do not know what "US strategic reserve policy" is. You do not understand how or even if it relates to protectionism. You cannot define "useful money" (as opposed to?). You assert "low energy cost" without any meaningful comparison. You drag in the oil export ban as an example of protectionism. Hint: Protectionism restricts IMPORTS,not Exports.
You are an utter and complete failure because you regurgitate terms and words you heard on Maddow or something and think you understand what they are. And also think you can win some debate by invoking them, like a magic spell.
Your bullshit is way too painfully obvious.

You've given up. Clearly our strategic reserves are trade protections that have underpinned prosperity in the US. Of course protection can include exports. It is in US law as such, and part of our energy and monetary policy.

Your post does not account for the Wackernagel Effect or Moore's Law in calculating ballistic coefficients off the meplat.
SOrry. That's a fail, son.

You've been knocked out and you're swinging at nursing staff next week.

LOL. Come back when you'ev studied the implications of the Pitt Doctrine on entropy and can bring some actual knowledge here.

I took some econ. This doesn't change our policy, how it works, what it is and that it works exceptionally for our economy, where you're wrong and failed in refuting.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Doesn't the Bible teach that money is the root of all evil?

No.

Then why does it say so?

It doesn't.. the quote is actually "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." (English Standard Version) Timothy6:10.

It means the same thing.

You people are dodging the issue. Do you want all the Bible references to greed and the desires and quests for material wealth? Will that make you feel better?

Good God you're stupid....

 

[The Rabbi]

Surrender? You misspelled "dismissal."
You do not know what "US strategic reserve policy" is. You do not understand how or even if it relates to protectionism. You cannot define "useful money" (as opposed to?). You assert "low energy cost" without any meaningful comparison. You drag in the oil export ban as an example of protectionism. Hint: Protectionism restricts IMPORTS,not Exports.
You are an utter and complete failure because you regurgitate terms and words you heard on Maddow or something and think you understand what they are. And also think you can win some debate by invoking them, like a magic spell.
Your bullshit is way too painfully obvious.

You've given up. Clearly our strategic reserves are trade protections that have underpinned prosperity in the US. Of course protection can include exports. It is in US law as such, and part of our energy and monetary policy.

Your post does not account for the Wackernagel Effect or Moore's Law in calculating ballistic coefficients off the meplat.
SOrry. That's a fail, son.

You've been knocked out and you're swinging at nursing staff next week.

LOL. Come back when you'ev studied the implications of the Pitt Doctrine on entropy and can bring some actual knowledge here.

I took some econ. This doesn't change our policy, how it works, what it is and that it works exceptionally for our economy, where you're wrong and failed in refuting.

LOL! You took "some Econ." Yeah, you blew an Econ major in the bathroom is probably what you meant.
Your posts indicate deep ignorance of the Bernouli Curve and Stromboli Theorem.

 

[The Rabbi]

Doesn't the Bible teach that money is the root of all evil?

No.

Then why does it say so?

It doesn't.. the quote is actually "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." (English Standard Version) Timothy6:10.

It means the same thing.

You people are dodging the issue. Do you want all the Bible references to greed and the desires and quests for material wealth? Will that make you feel better?

Good God you're stupid....

I had to ignore him. Such galactic levels of stupidity are beyond dealing with.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It really has been fascinating to watch during Obama's term, as the hardcore Left has become FAR more comfortable with defending and promoting socialism.

His administration really has been a turning point.
.

Examples of "promoting socialism" seem to be missing. Please elucidate with examples.

Uh. Bernie Sanders promotes it. His supporters promote it. It's promoted here.

Post 415, for example.

Is this a trick question?
.

There is no "socialism", per se. We have always had private security and public police agencies. We have always had public school and private schools and we have always had public hospitals and private hospitals. Much to the disappointment of most of the conservative Republicans, who never want to pass up and opportunity to fleece the people.

So to suggest that during the past half dozen years a "hardcore left" is advocating much more than already existed is hyperbole.

In fact missing in your piece is a definition of socialism and a definition of the hardcore left.

Seeing how receptive our nation is to the message of Bernie Sanders, it will take a whole lot of lies and money to knock him down. And one can bet that the NRA will spent whatever it takes to assassinate his character.

 

[Mac1958]

It really has been fascinating to watch during Obama's term, as the hardcore Left has become FAR more comfortable with defending and promoting socialism.

His administration really has been a turning point.
.

Examples of "promoting socialism" seem to be missing. Please elucidate with examples.

Uh. Bernie Sanders promotes it. His supporters promote it. It's promoted here.

Post 415, for example.

Is this a trick question?
.

There is no "socialism", per se. We have always had private security and public police agencies. We have always had public school and private schools and we have always had public hospitals and private hospitals. Much to the disappointment of most of the conservative Republicans, who never want to pass up and opportunity to fleece the people.

So to suggest that during the past half dozen years a "hardcore left" is advocating much more than already existed is hyperbole.

In fact missing in your piece is a definition of socialism and a definition of the hardcore left.

Seeing how receptive our nation is to the message of Bernie Sanders, it will take a whole lot of lies and money to knock him down. And one can bet that the NRA will spent whatever it takes to assassinate his character.

Yep, everything is relative.

That said, my original point remains: The Left is far more comfy discussing socialism, whatever the definition may be, than it was pre-Obama.
.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Yep, everything is relative.

That said, my original point remains: The Left is far more comfy discussing socialism, whatever the definition may be, than it was pre-Obama.
.

========
Socialism NEEDS to be discussed because right wing media has so distorted the meaning of the word and the concept.

In their abject servitude to the 1%'ers they have made socialism a dirty word synonymous with evil and communism. And it is neither of those things.

Due to cuts to the education budget by Republicans, Civics classes have been removed from schools --- still plenty of money for football teams --- but not enough for Civics classes. So our younger generations are growing up ignorant of other economic and government systems and they have been taught that anything other than unrestricted capitalism is EVIL.

They have no concept of the government systems used by other countries, many of which have a higher standard of living than we do.

 

[Programmer]

You've given up. Clearly our strategic reserves are trade protections that have underpinned prosperity in the US. Of course protection can include exports. It is in US law as such, and part of our energy and monetary policy.

Your post does not account for the Wackernagel Effect or Moore's Law in calculating ballistic coefficients off the meplat.
SOrry. That's a fail, son.

You've been knocked out and you're swinging at nursing staff next week.

LOL. Come back when you'ev studied the implications of the Pitt Doctrine on entropy and can bring some actual knowledge here.

I took some econ. This doesn't change our policy, how it works, what it is and that it works exceptionally for our economy, where you're wrong and failed in refuting.

LOL! You took "some Econ." Yeah, you blew an Econ major in the bathroom is probably what you meant.
Your posts indicate deep ignorance of the Bernouli Curve and Stromboli Theorem.

oh no. A peerless, unemployed professor draws curves that makes him conclude that protection doesn't include exports, no matter what reality says.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It really has been fascinating to watch during Obama's term, as the hardcore Left has become FAR more comfortable with defending and promoting socialism.

His administration really has been a turning point.
.

Examples of "promoting socialism" seem to be missing. Please elucidate with examples.

Oh, and I would like someone to detail how the private for profit sector is always better, cheaper and more effective than a government agency.

The private, for profit sector must constantly look out for waste. If they have a lot of waste, it cuts into their profit. A government agency only needs a politician to push for more funding and raising taxes to provide more money. A business can raise prices but only to a point. If the government raises taxes, what option do people have but pay them. For example, if the local school district wants more money, they raise the millage rate to get more money and it comes in property taxes. If you don't pay those property taxes, even if you own the property, it can be taken.

The private sector can collude with its competition to set prices and raise them with no explanation or only a flimsy excuse. The Private sector is not beholden to the people, a legislator who violates the trust of his constituency can be kicked out of office, a CEO can't be held accountable by The People; but The People's representatives can in terms of criminal and civil sanctions.

We live in a nation, as do most who live in Western Democracies, where the public and private sectors co-exist. They do so when it benefits The People.

There is no proof we get a better deal from the private sector than we do from the public one. There are more checks on public works than on private ones and most government brick and mortar projects are done by private firms who bid on the projects.

Remember, the Articles of Confederation were tossed under the bus for good reason.

 

[The Rabbi]

Your post does not account for the Wackernagel Effect or Moore's Law in calculating ballistic coefficients off the meplat.
SOrry. That's a fail, son.

You've been knocked out and you're swinging at nursing staff next week.

LOL. Come back when you'ev studied the implications of the Pitt Doctrine on entropy and can bring some actual knowledge here.

I took some econ. This doesn't change our policy, how it works, what it is and that it works exceptionally for our economy, where you're wrong and failed in refuting.

LOL! You took "some Econ." Yeah, you blew an Econ major in the bathroom is probably what you meant.
Your posts indicate deep ignorance of the Bernouli Curve and Stromboli Theorem.

oh no. A peerless, unemployed professor draws curves that makes him conclude that protection doesn't include exports, no matter what reality says.

Your response overlooks the fact of convex preferences, therefore is faulty.
lol! What a fucking rube

 

[Wry Catcher]

It really has been fascinating to watch during Obama's term, as the hardcore Left has become FAR more comfortable with defending and promoting socialism.

His administration really has been a turning point.
.

Examples of "promoting socialism" seem to be missing. Please elucidate with examples.

Uh. Bernie Sanders promotes it. His supporters promote it. It's promoted here.

Post 415, for example.

Is this a trick question?
.

There is no "socialism", per se. We have always had private security and public police agencies. We have always had public school and private schools and we have always had public hospitals and private hospitals. Much to the disappointment of most of the conservative Republicans, who never want to pass up and opportunity to fleece the people.

So to suggest that during the past half dozen years a "hardcore left" is advocating much more than already existed is hyperbole.

In fact missing in your piece is a definition of socialism and a definition of the hardcore left.

Seeing how receptive our nation is to the message of Bernie Sanders, it will take a whole lot of lies and money to knock him down. And one can bet that the NRA will spent whatever it takes to assassinate his character.

Yep, everything is relative.

That said, my original point remains: The Left is far more comfy discussing socialism, whatever the definition may be, than it was pre-Obama.
.

IF everything is relative, Isn't the statement "everything is relative" relative?

Why is the right uncomfortable discussing socialism? Cognitive dissonance?

 

[The Rabbi]

It really has been fascinating to watch during Obama's term, as the hardcore Left has become FAR more comfortable with defending and promoting socialism.

His administration really has been a turning point.
.

Examples of "promoting socialism" seem to be missing. Please elucidate with examples.

Oh, and I would like someone to detail how the private for profit sector is always better, cheaper and more effective than a government agency.

The private, for profit sector must constantly look out for waste. If they have a lot of waste, it cuts into their profit. A government agency only needs a politician to push for more funding and raising taxes to provide more money. A business can raise prices but only to a point. If the government raises taxes, what option do people have but pay them. For example, if the local school district wants more money, they raise the millage rate to get more money and it comes in property taxes. If you don't pay those property taxes, even if you own the property, it can be taken.

The private sector can collude with its competition to set prices and raise them with no explanation or only a flimsy excuse. The Private sector is not beholden to the people, a legislator who violates the trust of his constituency can be kicked out of office, a CEO can't be held accountable by The People; but The People's representatives can in terms of criminal and civil sanctions.

We live in a nation, as do most who live in Western Democracies, where the public and private sectors co-exist. They do so when it benefits The People.

There is no proof we get a better deal from the private sector than we do from the public one. There are more checks on public works than on private ones and most government brick and mortar projects are done by private firms who bid on the projects.

Remember, the Articles of Confederation were tossed under the bus for good reason.

Wow thats quite a country you live. I should visit it sometime.
In the US companies compete with each other and do not collude on prices. The few examples that are publicized of collusion are publicized precisely because they are few. And the US is prosecuting them.
How many legislators are kicked out of office for violating public trust? Yeah none.
THere is no accountability in public works. How many people were fired in the Obamacare website fiasco? Yeah, none. There is your accountability.

 

[The Rabbi]

It really has been fascinating to watch during Obama's term, as the hardcore Left has become FAR more comfortable with defending and promoting socialism.

His administration really has been a turning point.
.

Examples of "promoting socialism" seem to be missing. Please elucidate with examples.

Uh. Bernie Sanders promotes it. His supporters promote it. It's promoted here.

Post 415, for example.

Is this a trick question?
.

There is no "socialism", per se. We have always had private security and public police agencies. We have always had public school and private schools and we have always had public hospitals and private hospitals. Much to the disappointment of most of the conservative Republicans, who never want to pass up and opportunity to fleece the people.

So to suggest that during the past half dozen years a "hardcore left" is advocating much more than already existed is hyperbole.

In fact missing in your piece is a definition of socialism and a definition of the hardcore left.

Seeing how receptive our nation is to the message of Bernie Sanders, it will take a whole lot of lies and money to knock him down. And one can bet that the NRA will spent whatever it takes to assassinate his character.

Yep, everything is relative.

That said, my original point remains: The Left is far more comfy discussing socialism, whatever the definition may be, than it was pre-Obama.
.

IF everything is relative, Isn't the statement "everything is relative" relative?

Why is the right uncomfortable discussing socialism? Cognitive dissonance?

The Right is not uncomfortable discussing socialism. We discuss socialism every single day here. The Left denies they are socialist. That is the problem.