Gun Control? Lesson Learned

Maybe you can answer what PC can't? If true for guns, why no other weapons, all weapons?

And, "Until Nobody Has Nuclear Weapons, Everybody Has to Have Them".

True, or false?

If you have a rock, shouldn't I have a rock?


False. Iran and other countries who will not be deterred by their own destruction are a danger to everyone., since they have actually stated that as soon as they get them they will destroy Israel.

We currently have laws that do not allow violent felons to own or carry guns.....that is all the gun control we need....not allowing countries like Iran to have nuclear weapons is the same policy at a national level.
So, you do believe both in gun control and arms control. What's okay for you is not okay for the other guy, right?

Good of you to answer what PC cannot BTW.

Why, if I'm the other guy, would I accept that answer? Who made you king?


Why do you imply I don't believe in gun control....? I don't believe in the gun control laws you push because they are stupid and don't work. The gun control I believe in....if you commit a crime with a gun we arrest you. If you are a felon caught with a gun you are arrested.....that gun control works....your gun control...doesn't work.
Works great in Japan. very few guns, very few gun deaths. The two are related, obviously.

Strong gun control makes for very few gun deaths. That's true in nation after nation. Weak gun control, like here, many deaths.

And,

Why, if I'm the other guy, would I accept that answer? Who made you king?

How do you decide, since you already admitted there are people who look "normal" but aren't, who should be allowed to have a gun just like you want to for who should be allowed to have a nuclear weapon? And, how is that any different from anyone else who wants to limit guns and arms?

You always want the advantage but get upset when others say, let's make everyone equal, no one has a gun. A fair is not what you want, it's what you fear...


This is how it actually works in Japan...more reading...more links...

Gangs buying up guns and hitmen.....2015

Yakuza rivals buying up guns, recruiting assassins - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun

By proposing high pay, the recruiters are trying to encourage the gang warfare by hinting that those who carry out the first hits will be paid more,” the source said.

A former high-ranking gang member living in the Kanto region said he began receiving calls asking about the availability of loaded guns from around late August, when the Yamaguchi-gumi split came to light.

The calls, eight in total, to the former gangster’s mobile phone continued into September.

Without saying who made the calls, the former gangster said the requests likely came from both sides involved in the Yamaguchi-gumi breakup.

The large number of intermediaries involved in supplying guns made it difficult to pinpoint who was actually going on the shopping spree, the former mobster said.


-----------------
By Benjamin David Baker
November 20, 2015

Japan Faces a Possible Mob War After Yakuza Gang Fractures

However, few things are more dangerous than when mob families go to war.

This fear seems to have been vindicated. According to the Asahi Shimbun, both the Yamaguchi-gumi and the thirteen splinter groups have been busy buying up weapons and lining up hitmen. The first shots in this mob war might have already been fired outside a hot spring facility in Iida, Nagano Prefecture. The 43-year-old man who was shot and killed outside a bathhouse on October 6 wanted to leave a Yamaguchi-gumi affiliate and join the newly formed rival organization consisting of the rebel gangs.

In what might be retaliation for this murder, a boss in the original Yamaguchi-gumi was killed on Sunday. Tatsuyuki Hishida was found tied up in his apartment after being bludgeoned to death. Police report that the killing was most likely in response to the Yamaguchi-gumi’s split.

The Japanese government has good reason to fear a gang war. Between 1985 and 1987, 25 Yakuza members were killedand around 70 were injured in a feud involving affiliated rival gangs. That bloodshed was triggered in part over disagreement over who should become the head of the Yamaguchi-gumi. A few years ago, another war broke out between two rival gangs on the southern island of Kyushu, in which mobsters attacked each other with machine guns and grenades.






-------------
The Great Japanese Gang Wars

The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.


In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).

It’s a gang war in which there have been over 45 violent incidents, including bombings, shots exchanged during high-speed car chases, and 14 deaths. At least seven deaths, including one civilian's, were from gunfire; a phenomenally high figure when you consider the number of gun deaths for all of Japan in 2011 was eight people. (Japan has some of the strictest gun-control laws in the world.)

On June 11, senior members of the Dojin-kai and the Kyushu Seido-kai (a.k.a. Seido-kai) visited the Fukuoka Police Kurume Police Station with an official announcement that they were ending the conflict. TheSeido-kai brought a virtual white flag, a notification of their dissolution (解散届け), in which they wrote, “For a long time we have made everyone ill at ease, disturbed people, and been a nuisance to society. We have decided our breakup is the only way to restore peace.” The Dojin-kai in turn proclaimed, “Since the Seido-kai is dissolved, this situation is over and we apologize to people and the authorities for the anxiety we have caused.”
--------------------

Handouts for Hand Grenades: Yakuza Gang War Leads to an Explosive Bounty

TOKYO -- Japan’s Fukuoka Prefecture Police have become the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reports finding a hand grenade (or "pineapples" in yakuza slang) starting today, April 2. A long-running gang war in the prefecture has raised public fear in the area, and the handy hand-grenade has increasingly become the weapon of choice amongst rival gang members. As Japan has put into place increasingly harsher laws regulating the actions of the Japanese mafia, aka the yakuza, forcing many out of business--the remaining thugs are fighting viciously over what's left of the pie

When gang members aren't lobbing grenades or shooting at each other, they are shooting at the offices of companies trying to cut organized crime Last year, on Nov. 26, Toshihiro Uchino, the 72-year-old president of Hakushin Construction --which was trying to cut ties to local gangs---was shot to death outside his home in Kitakyushu.


The most violent of the groups and considered the primary user of hand grenades is the Kyushu Seidokai. The Kyushu Seidokai has expanded into Tokyo, setting up several front companies, and joined forces with Tadamasa Goto, a former Yamaguchi-gumi boss turned Buddhist priest, who has now re-emerged as a powerful player in Japan's underworld. Tokyo Police are also worried that "pineapples" may be thrown around the metropolis in the near future. "A coalition between Goto and the Kyushu Seido-kai doesn't bode well for the public safety," said a detective who works organized crime. "We’re not excited about the possibility of yakuza lobbing grenades into Tokyo offices and homes."
--------

Japan braces for violence among 'yakuza' crime gangs

TOKYO — Japan is bracing for war.

Not with other countries, but with the nation's notorious gangsters.

A 43-year-old man was gunned down in the parking lot of a hot springs resort in western Japan earlier this month in what authorities say they fear could be the start of a deadly war among the nation's largest organized crime gangs, known collectively as the yakuza.

The powerful Yamaguchi-gumi crime syndicate, which marked its 100th anniversary this year, split into two rival groups in September. Police arrested a member of the Yamaguchi-gumi in the hot springs shooting and identified the victim as a member of the breakaway group.

Analysts said the rupture was due to long-running disputes over succession plans and high fees that member groups were required to pay Yamaguchi-gumi leaders.
-------
A dispute over the gang’s leadership in the early 1980s led to a two-year war that left an estimated 30 gangsters dead, 70 others wounded and more than 500 in police custody. However, there are no statistics on the number of civilians killed or injured in the violence.
 
Again with that same stupid point which you must think is clever...b cause you anti gun morons keep making it............


The speed limit doesn't stop them from speeding...it allows you to arrest them when they break it.

You morons believe that background checks will actually prevent the crime...like thinking a speed limit will stop a criminal from breaking it.....

Current gun laws work...w.hen you commit a crime you are arrested...if you use a gun illegally, you are arrested...if you own or carry a gun as a felon...you are arrested.....
Let's see, you don't want criminals (or crazy people) to have guns, but you haven't told us how the government is supposed to figure that out? Do they use one of these?
8-ball-header-575x250.jpg


It's easy...you guys just don't like the answer because it leaves normal gun owners alone. We have laws on the books....if someone commits a crime with a gun....you arrest them. If you find a felon owning, carrying, buying, or selling a gun...you arrest them.

we can do this with existing laws...it does not target normal gun owners and police use normal police techniques to accomplish it........and each time you catch a criminal all you have to do is lock them up.....

But you guys don't like this because that leaves all those legal guns in the hands of normal people...and that just irritates the shit out of you.......so now you want universal background checks...because that gives you the excuse for gun registration..which allows you to ban or confiscate as you get political muscle........

But we can't arrest the guy who sold the felon the gun in a private sale that didn't require a background check.


You don't have to...if the guy is a regular supplier...using current police techniqus like they do for illegal drugs....you get a snitch and make an undercover buy...and you get him.......this way normal gun owners are not targeted... I know...that is your whole point...you want normal people caught up in your laws so you can punish them....

Yes you do because if selling a gun to a felon is a crime then it's got to be a crime for everyone.

If selling alcohol to a minor is a crime, then ANYONE who does it commits a crime.


Sorry.....gun registration if the only way to make universal background checks work.......and individual sales can be captured by the police for actual gun traffickers...just like the guy selling a little pot is ignored by the police who go after the crack dealer..........if a guy sells a shotgun to a neighbor....not realizing that he has an alias a because he is a felon.....no need to arrest him...because you can arrest the guy who knew it was against the law to buy that gun...the actual criminal.....

You guys sure have a hard on for normal gun owners......
 
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No...you are implying that all people who use a gun for a crime were law abiding just before they used the gun...and that is not true or accurate. Those who use guns to commit crime, as actual research shows, are majority criminals with long histories of crime and violence.

That should make people wonder why the gun nuts feel it's so important to keep the loopholes open in the background check laws.


Criminals don't get background checks...they get their guns illegally and just ignore background check laws.....

So what. People ignore the speed limit. Is that an argument for not having speed limit laws?


Again with that same stupid point which you must think is clever...b cause you anti gun morons keep making it............


The speed limit doesn't stop them from speeding...it allows you to arrest them when they break it.

You morons believe that background checks will actually prevent the crime...like thinking a speed limit will stop a criminal from breaking it.....

Current gun laws work...w.hen you commit a crime you are arrested...if you use a gun illegally, you are arrested...if you own or carry a gun as a felon...you are arrested.....

Do you ignore the speed limit?


Yep...and if I get caught I get a ticket...the law does nothing to keep my speed limit down......but I will get a ticket if I break that law....

No law keeps guns out of the hands of criminals...but we can arrest and jail them when we catch them.
 
Let's see, you don't want criminals (or crazy people) to have guns, but you haven't told us how the government is supposed to figure that out? Do they use one of these?
8-ball-header-575x250.jpg


It's easy...you guys just don't like the answer because it leaves normal gun owners alone. We have laws on the books....if someone commits a crime with a gun....you arrest them. If you find a felon owning, carrying, buying, or selling a gun...you arrest them.

we can do this with existing laws...it does not target normal gun owners and police use normal police techniques to accomplish it........and each time you catch a criminal all you have to do is lock them up.....

But you guys don't like this because that leaves all those legal guns in the hands of normal people...and that just irritates the shit out of you.......so now you want universal background checks...because that gives you the excuse for gun registration..which allows you to ban or confiscate as you get political muscle........

But we can't arrest the guy who sold the felon the gun in a private sale that didn't require a background check.


You don't have to...if the guy is a regular supplier...using current police techniqus like they do for illegal drugs....you get a snitch and make an undercover buy...and you get him.......this way normal gun owners are not targeted... I know...that is your whole point...you want normal people caught up in your laws so you can punish them....

Yes you do because if selling a gun to a felon is a crime then it's got to be a crime for everyone.

If selling alcohol to a minor is a crime, then ANYONE who does it commits a crime.


Sorry.....gun registration if the only way to make universal background checks work.......and individual sales can be captured by the police for actual gun traffickers...just like the guy selling a little pot is ignored by the police who go after the crack dealer..........if a guy sells a shotgun to a neighbor....not realizing that he has an alias a because he is a felon.....no need to arrest him...because you can arrest the guy who knew it was against the law to buy that gun...the actual criminal.....

You guys sure have a hard on for normal gun owners......

You're arguing against ALL background checks.

You're arguing for the convicted bank robber to walk out of prison this morning, buy a gun this afternoon, and go rob a bank tomorrow morning without a single impediment in his way, without a single person being held accountable other than the bank robber. That's insane.
 
[


No...you are implying that all people who use a gun for a crime were law abiding just before they used the gun...and that is not true or accurate. Those who use guns to commit crime, as actual research shows, are majority criminals with long histories of crime and violence.

That should make people wonder why the gun nuts feel it's so important to keep the loopholes open in the background check laws.


There are no loopholes.

You lie. You can make private sales without background checks.


That is not a loophole. A loophole would allow gun stores to sell guns without background checks.....none of the laws,allow that...there is no loophole.

You're retarded. A loophole is anywhere you can legally buy a gun without a background check.

Goddam where do you people go to school?


Nope.......a loophole allows you to get around a law......there is no loophole that allows licensed gun sellers to sell guns without a background check.

There is no law that prevents an individual from selling a legal product to another individual. the felon knows he can't own or carry the gun...when you catch him with it...you can arrest him...no muss, no fuss...those laws already exist....

But all you care about is the normal gun owner...you break out into sweats thinking about destroying their life for mistakenly selling a .22 rifle to a felon........don't you......
 
That should make people wonder why the gun nuts feel it's so important to keep the loopholes open in the background check laws.


Criminals don't get background checks...they get their guns illegally and just ignore background check laws.....

So what. People ignore the speed limit. Is that an argument for not having speed limit laws?


Again with that same stupid point which you must think is clever...b cause you anti gun morons keep making it............


The speed limit doesn't stop them from speeding...it allows you to arrest them when they break it.

You morons believe that background checks will actually prevent the crime...like thinking a speed limit will stop a criminal from breaking it.....

Current gun laws work...w.hen you commit a crime you are arrested...if you use a gun illegally, you are arrested...if you own or carry a gun as a felon...you are arrested.....

Do you ignore the speed limit?


Yep...and if I get caught I get a ticket...the law does nothing to keep my speed limit down......but I will get a ticket if I break that law....

No law keeps guns out of the hands of criminals...but we can arrest and jail them when we catch them.

You're lying because you're losing the argument. Either that or you're too stupid to understand that speed limits deter most people, including those who would rather drive faster.
 
It's easy...you guys just don't like the answer because it leaves normal gun owners alone. We have laws on the books....if someone commits a crime with a gun....you arrest them. If you find a felon owning, carrying, buying, or selling a gun...you arrest them.

we can do this with existing laws...it does not target normal gun owners and police use normal police techniques to accomplish it........and each time you catch a criminal all you have to do is lock them up.....

But you guys don't like this because that leaves all those legal guns in the hands of normal people...and that just irritates the shit out of you.......so now you want universal background checks...because that gives you the excuse for gun registration..which allows you to ban or confiscate as you get political muscle........

But we can't arrest the guy who sold the felon the gun in a private sale that didn't require a background check.


You don't have to...if the guy is a regular supplier...using current police techniqus like they do for illegal drugs....you get a snitch and make an undercover buy...and you get him.......this way normal gun owners are not targeted... I know...that is your whole point...you want normal people caught up in your laws so you can punish them....

Yes you do because if selling a gun to a felon is a crime then it's got to be a crime for everyone.

If selling alcohol to a minor is a crime, then ANYONE who does it commits a crime.


Sorry.....gun registration if the only way to make universal background checks work.......and individual sales can be captured by the police for actual gun traffickers...just like the guy selling a little pot is ignored by the police who go after the crack dealer..........if a guy sells a shotgun to a neighbor....not realizing that he has an alias a because he is a felon.....no need to arrest him...because you can arrest the guy who knew it was against the law to buy that gun...the actual criminal.....

You guys sure have a hard on for normal gun owners......

You're arguing against ALL background checks.

You're arguing for the convicted bank robber to walk out of prison this morning, buy a gun this afternoon, and go rob a bank tomorrow morning without a single impediment in his way, without a single person being held accountable other than the bank robber. That's insane.


What stops him now.....background checks.....? He gets his baby momma to buy the gun...like the kansas lawn mower shooter.....or he goes to the drug dealer he knows and buys the gun............

I told you.....a background check at a gun store that is immediate, pass/fail and leaves no permanent record....but that isn't what you want...even though it does everything you want.....you just care about getting the legal gun owners and destroying them......it clouds your judgement.....
 
Criminals don't get background checks...they get their guns illegally and just ignore background check laws.....

So what. People ignore the speed limit. Is that an argument for not having speed limit laws?


Again with that same stupid point which you must think is clever...b cause you anti gun morons keep making it............


The speed limit doesn't stop them from speeding...it allows you to arrest them when they break it.

You morons believe that background checks will actually prevent the crime...like thinking a speed limit will stop a criminal from breaking it.....

Current gun laws work...w.hen you commit a crime you are arrested...if you use a gun illegally, you are arrested...if you own or carry a gun as a felon...you are arrested.....

Do you ignore the speed limit?


Yep...and if I get caught I get a ticket...the law does nothing to keep my speed limit down......but I will get a ticket if I break that law....

No law keeps guns out of the hands of criminals...but we can arrest and jail them when we catch them.

You're lying because you're losing the argument. Either that or you're too stupid to understand that speed limits deter most people, including those who would rather drive faster.


And our current gun laws deter most people...don't they?........there are over 320,000,000 people in the United States....less than 8,124 commit gun murder....our laws work......if they didn't.....a lot more people would be murdered......
 
Criminals don't get background checks...they get their guns illegally and just ignore background check laws.....

So what. People ignore the speed limit. Is that an argument for not having speed limit laws?


Again with that same stupid point which you must think is clever...b cause you anti gun morons keep making it............


The speed limit doesn't stop them from speeding...it allows you to arrest them when they break it.

You morons believe that background checks will actually prevent the crime...like thinking a speed limit will stop a criminal from breaking it.....

Current gun laws work...w.hen you commit a crime you are arrested...if you use a gun illegally, you are arrested...if you own or carry a gun as a felon...you are arrested.....

Do you ignore the speed limit?


Yep...and if I get caught I get a ticket...the law does nothing to keep my speed limit down......but I will get a ticket if I break that law....

No law keeps guns out of the hands of criminals...but we can arrest and jail them when we catch them.

You're lying because you're losing the argument. Either that or you're too stupid to understand that speed limits deter most people, including those who would rather drive faster.

I'm not losing....you guys don't have the truth, the facts or reality on your side.......I have shown you how you are wrong over and over again.......with actual real world examples...and statistics...
 
That should make people wonder why the gun nuts feel it's so important to keep the loopholes open in the background check laws.


There are no loopholes.

You lie. You can make private sales without background checks.


That is not a loophole. A loophole would allow gun stores to sell guns without background checks.....none of the laws,allow that...there is no loophole.

You're retarded. A loophole is anywhere you can legally buy a gun without a background check.

Goddam where do you people go to school?


Nope.......a loophole allows you to get around a law......there is no loophole that allows licensed gun sellers to sell guns without a background check.

There is no law that prevents an individual from selling a legal product to another individual. the felon knows he can't own or carry the gun...when you catch him with it...you can arrest him...no muss, no fuss...those laws already exist....

But all you care about is the normal gun owner...you break out into sweats thinking about destroying their life for mistakenly selling a .22 rifle to a felon........don't you......

That's idiocy because there are millions of guns owned by unlicensed dealers.
 
It's easy...you guys just don't like the answer because it leaves normal gun owners alone. We have laws on the books....if someone commits a crime with a gun....you arrest them. If you find a felon owning, carrying, buying, or selling a gun...you arrest them.

we can do this with existing laws...it does not target normal gun owners and police use normal police techniques to accomplish it........and each time you catch a criminal all you have to do is lock them up.....

But you guys don't like this because that leaves all those legal guns in the hands of normal people...and that just irritates the shit out of you.......so now you want universal background checks...because that gives you the excuse for gun registration..which allows you to ban or confiscate as you get political muscle........

But we can't arrest the guy who sold the felon the gun in a private sale that didn't require a background check.


You don't have to...if the guy is a regular supplier...using current police techniqus like they do for illegal drugs....you get a snitch and make an undercover buy...and you get him.......this way normal gun owners are not targeted... I know...that is your whole point...you want normal people caught up in your laws so you can punish them....

Yes you do because if selling a gun to a felon is a crime then it's got to be a crime for everyone.

If selling alcohol to a minor is a crime, then ANYONE who does it commits a crime.


Sorry.....gun registration if the only way to make universal background checks work.......and individual sales can be captured by the police for actual gun traffickers...just like the guy selling a little pot is ignored by the police who go after the crack dealer..........if a guy sells a shotgun to a neighbor....not realizing that he has an alias a because he is a felon.....no need to arrest him...because you can arrest the guy who knew it was against the law to buy that gun...the actual criminal.....

You guys sure have a hard on for normal gun owners......

You're arguing against ALL background checks.

You're arguing for the convicted bank robber to walk out of prison this morning, buy a gun this afternoon, and go rob a bank tomorrow morning without a single impediment in his way, without a single person being held accountable other than the bank robber. That's insane.


I posted a story today about a convicted felon gang banger....who was buying guns from a straw buyer...over 40...and selling them......background checks did not stop him...what stopped him? his buyer snitched him out.........just like they do for every other crime....and then the cops did an undercover sting...and arrested him......no need for any law you say you want to do that....
 
So what. People ignore the speed limit. Is that an argument for not having speed limit laws?


Again with that same stupid point which you must think is clever...b cause you anti gun morons keep making it............


The speed limit doesn't stop them from speeding...it allows you to arrest them when they break it.

You morons believe that background checks will actually prevent the crime...like thinking a speed limit will stop a criminal from breaking it.....

Current gun laws work...w.hen you commit a crime you are arrested...if you use a gun illegally, you are arrested...if you own or carry a gun as a felon...you are arrested.....

Do you ignore the speed limit?


Yep...and if I get caught I get a ticket...the law does nothing to keep my speed limit down......but I will get a ticket if I break that law....

No law keeps guns out of the hands of criminals...but we can arrest and jail them when we catch them.

You're lying because you're losing the argument. Either that or you're too stupid to understand that speed limits deter most people, including those who would rather drive faster.


And our current gun laws deter most people...don't they?........there are over 320,000,000 people in the United States....less than 8,124 commit gun murder....our laws work......if they didn't.....a lot more people would be murdered......

Now you've conceded that current gun laws work. Therefore fixing a loophole in a current gun law, logically, would make it work better.
 
But we can't arrest the guy who sold the felon the gun in a private sale that didn't require a background check.


You don't have to...if the guy is a regular supplier...using current police techniqus like they do for illegal drugs....you get a snitch and make an undercover buy...and you get him.......this way normal gun owners are not targeted... I know...that is your whole point...you want normal people caught up in your laws so you can punish them....

Yes you do because if selling a gun to a felon is a crime then it's got to be a crime for everyone.

If selling alcohol to a minor is a crime, then ANYONE who does it commits a crime.


Sorry.....gun registration if the only way to make universal background checks work.......and individual sales can be captured by the police for actual gun traffickers...just like the guy selling a little pot is ignored by the police who go after the crack dealer..........if a guy sells a shotgun to a neighbor....not realizing that he has an alias a because he is a felon.....no need to arrest him...because you can arrest the guy who knew it was against the law to buy that gun...the actual criminal.....

You guys sure have a hard on for normal gun owners......

You're arguing against ALL background checks.

You're arguing for the convicted bank robber to walk out of prison this morning, buy a gun this afternoon, and go rob a bank tomorrow morning without a single impediment in his way, without a single person being held accountable other than the bank robber. That's insane.


I posted a story today about a convicted felon gang banger....who was buying guns from a straw buyer...over 40...and selling them......background checks did not stop him...what stopped him? his buyer snitched him out.........just like they do for every other crime....and then the cops did an undercover sting...and arrested him......no need for any law you say you want to do that....

Straw buyers are people who can pass the background check.
 
There are no loopholes.

You lie. You can make private sales without background checks.


That is not a loophole. A loophole would allow gun stores to sell guns without background checks.....none of the laws,allow that...there is no loophole.

You're retarded. A loophole is anywhere you can legally buy a gun without a background check.

Goddam where do you people go to school?


Nope.......a loophole allows you to get around a law......there is no loophole that allows licensed gun sellers to sell guns without a background check.

There is no law that prevents an individual from selling a legal product to another individual. the felon knows he can't own or carry the gun...when you catch him with it...you can arrest him...no muss, no fuss...those laws already exist....

But all you care about is the normal gun owner...you break out into sweats thinking about destroying their life for mistakenly selling a .22 rifle to a felon........don't you......

That's idiocy because there are millions of guns owned by unlicensed dealers.


And less than 8,124 are used to commit murder...........so yes...our current gun laws against using guns for crime actually work....but you reveal yourself....I showed how existing laws allow us to arrest gun criminals and what do you say?

Well...what about all those other legal guns that aren't used for crime.....

So it isn't about stopping criminals for you...it is about 1) getting rid of guns and 2) destroying people who own guns legally.....
 
Again with that same stupid point which you must think is clever...b cause you anti gun morons keep making it............


The speed limit doesn't stop them from speeding...it allows you to arrest them when they break it.

You morons believe that background checks will actually prevent the crime...like thinking a speed limit will stop a criminal from breaking it.....

Current gun laws work...w.hen you commit a crime you are arrested...if you use a gun illegally, you are arrested...if you own or carry a gun as a felon...you are arrested.....

Do you ignore the speed limit?


Yep...and if I get caught I get a ticket...the law does nothing to keep my speed limit down......but I will get a ticket if I break that law....

No law keeps guns out of the hands of criminals...but we can arrest and jail them when we catch them.

You're lying because you're losing the argument. Either that or you're too stupid to understand that speed limits deter most people, including those who would rather drive faster.


And our current gun laws deter most people...don't they?........there are over 320,000,000 people in the United States....less than 8,124 commit gun murder....our laws work......if they didn't.....a lot more people would be murdered......

Now you've conceded that current gun laws work. Therefore fixing a loophole in a current gun law, logically, would make it work better.


How did I concede that....I showed you the two main ways criminals get guns...they get a straw buyer or steal them.....mass shooters just go through the background check........

They will bypass universal background checks the same way.....but you don't care about that...you just need univesal background checks for univeral gun registration........
 
You don't have to...if the guy is a regular supplier...using current police techniqus like they do for illegal drugs....you get a snitch and make an undercover buy...and you get him.......this way normal gun owners are not targeted... I know...that is your whole point...you want normal people caught up in your laws so you can punish them....

Yes you do because if selling a gun to a felon is a crime then it's got to be a crime for everyone.

If selling alcohol to a minor is a crime, then ANYONE who does it commits a crime.


Sorry.....gun registration if the only way to make universal background checks work.......and individual sales can be captured by the police for actual gun traffickers...just like the guy selling a little pot is ignored by the police who go after the crack dealer..........if a guy sells a shotgun to a neighbor....not realizing that he has an alias a because he is a felon.....no need to arrest him...because you can arrest the guy who knew it was against the law to buy that gun...the actual criminal.....

You guys sure have a hard on for normal gun owners......

You're arguing against ALL background checks.

You're arguing for the convicted bank robber to walk out of prison this morning, buy a gun this afternoon, and go rob a bank tomorrow morning without a single impediment in his way, without a single person being held accountable other than the bank robber. That's insane.


I posted a story today about a convicted felon gang banger....who was buying guns from a straw buyer...over 40...and selling them......background checks did not stop him...what stopped him? his buyer snitched him out.........just like they do for every other crime....and then the cops did an undercover sting...and arrested him......no need for any law you say you want to do that....

Straw buyers are people who can pass the background check.


Yep.....so your background check fails.......and it will fail if you make it for individual sales...they will just send a straw buyer to the individual sale to pass a background from the individual seller....see how stupid that law would be...it is useless before it is even implemented....
 
There are no loopholes.

You lie. You can make private sales without background checks.


That is not a loophole. A loophole would allow gun stores to sell guns without background checks.....none of the laws,allow that...there is no loophole.

You're retarded. A loophole is anywhere you can legally buy a gun without a background check.

Goddam where do you people go to school?


Nope.......a loophole allows you to get around a law......there is no loophole that allows licensed gun sellers to sell guns without a background check.

There is no law that prevents an individual from selling a legal product to another individual. the felon knows he can't own or carry the gun...when you catch him with it...you can arrest him...no muss, no fuss...those laws already exist....

But all you care about is the normal gun owner...you break out into sweats thinking about destroying their life for mistakenly selling a .22 rifle to a felon........don't you......

That's idiocy because there are millions of guns owned by unlicensed dealers.


How many are used in crimes....and if an unlicensed dealer is selling guns to criminals....then the police can use a snitch to find them....set up an undercover sting...and arrest them....just like they do for every other crime...why are guns different for you?
 
You don't have to...if the guy is a regular supplier...using current police techniqus like they do for illegal drugs....you get a snitch and make an undercover buy...and you get him.......this way normal gun owners are not targeted... I know...that is your whole point...you want normal people caught up in your laws so you can punish them....

Yes you do because if selling a gun to a felon is a crime then it's got to be a crime for everyone.

If selling alcohol to a minor is a crime, then ANYONE who does it commits a crime.


Sorry.....gun registration if the only way to make universal background checks work.......and individual sales can be captured by the police for actual gun traffickers...just like the guy selling a little pot is ignored by the police who go after the crack dealer..........if a guy sells a shotgun to a neighbor....not realizing that he has an alias a because he is a felon.....no need to arrest him...because you can arrest the guy who knew it was against the law to buy that gun...the actual criminal.....

You guys sure have a hard on for normal gun owners......

You're arguing against ALL background checks.

You're arguing for the convicted bank robber to walk out of prison this morning, buy a gun this afternoon, and go rob a bank tomorrow morning without a single impediment in his way, without a single person being held accountable other than the bank robber. That's insane.


I posted a story today about a convicted felon gang banger....who was buying guns from a straw buyer...over 40...and selling them......background checks did not stop him...what stopped him? his buyer snitched him out.........just like they do for every other crime....and then the cops did an undercover sting...and arrested him......no need for any law you say you want to do that....

Straw buyers are people who can pass the background check.


Come on NY....admit it...you don't care about criminals....you just hate the thought that there are guns out there you can't ban, confiscate or outlaw...and that the owners of those guns can't be punished........admit it......

The people who have committed no crime with their guns are what drive you crazy...they are out of your reach.......until you create enough laws and paperwork where they will accidentally screw up....then you own their asses and can destroy them....
 
Countries with gun control have high crime rates and incidences of violence ; more than the US.

Gun Facts | Gun Control and Crime in non-US Countries

----------------------
Quote :

“We cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence. And, indeed, there has been no discernible reduction in the lethality and injuriousness of gun violence,” said the unreleased NIJ report, written by Christopher Koper, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania.

"The report also noted that assault weapons were “rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban.”

Ban on assault weapons didn’t reduce violence

-------------

Quote :

"But in the 10 years since the previous ban lapsed, even gun control advocates acknowledge a larger truth: The law that barred the sale of assault weapons from 1994 to 2004 made little difference."

"This politically defined category of guns — a selection of rifles, shotguns and handguns with “military-style” features — only figured in about 2 percent of gun crimes nationwide before the ban."

"Handguns were used in more than 80 percent of gun murders each year, but gun control advocates had failed to interest enough of the public in a handgun ban. Handguns were the weapons most likely to kill you, but they were associated by the public with self-defense. (In 2008, the Supreme Court said there was a constitutional right to keep a loaded handgun at home for self-defense.)"

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html?referer=&_r=0

---------------

Quote :

"Where firearms are most dense, violent crime crates are lowest, and where guns are least dense violent crime rates are highest," said the report."

"The study pointed out that there are 40 states that allow citizens to carry concealed handguns, which the authors said reduced murder and violent crime."

"In Britain, which banned virtually all handguns in 1997, the total number of firearm offenses began to go up, increasing by 89 percent from 1998 to 2008, as the Daily Mail noted."

Harvard Gun Study: The More Guns, The Less Criminal Activity
-------------

Shadow 355
 
Except to a gun free Country
Japan is nearly gun-free, and doing just fine. it's not alone, we are...



"Japan is nearly gun-free, and doing just fine. "

Flights to Japan on Google
from New York, NY (all airports), Mar 30 – Apr 3 round trip
Tokyo 13h 40m+ from $988
Osaka 16h 35m+ from $1,246
Okinawa Prefecture 18h 50m+ from $1,105
Fukuoka 16h 55m+ from $1,105
Nagoya 17h 55m+ from $1,119
Sapporo 18h 15m+ from $1,105
More destinations »


Don't forget to write!
I could go here as well:

"In Korea, gun possession is prohibited except for soldiers, police officers, hunters and other specially licensed people. However, civilians can hold air guns with a caliber of 0.20 (50 mm) or smaller.

As of last year, around 187,000 firearms including handguns, rifles and shotguns were legally held by civilians.

In 2011, 416 crimes involving guns occurred in Korea. According to the Korea Customs Service, 141 illegal firearms were seized in 2012, 160 in 2011, 177 in 2010, 392 in 2009 and 80 in 2008."
Concerns grow over Korean gun violence

Should I drop in the folks? Oh right, you're not sure who that might be. Never mind...



Don't think I won't miss ya'!!!



I won't, but don't think it.
Still can't answer? Has no one written one for you yet?

And, "Until Nobody Has Nuclear Weapons, Everybody Has to Have Them".

True, or false?
Let's see nuclear weapons as compared to personal firearms...

or Apples to Orangutans
 

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