CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[2aguy]

Sorry....in Chicago there are 3 million people...the police have a list of known criminals...1,333 of them and 80% of the shooters come from that list.......and the areas of the city where the shootings happen are tiny......so locking up that small number of morons, who are repeatedly arrested with illegal guns....is the only way to stop gun crime and murder in those cities...

I have no problem with locking up violent criminals and if that is all it takes to eliminate gun violence then I'd agree gun controls are not needed.

I'm not a statistician but I'm not sure your numbers compute:

During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun; about 2% had a military-style semiautomatic gun or machine gun.​

I know you don't want to punish a gun owner BEFORE a crime is committed and it seems few criminals are caught with a firearm so locking up the 13-15% of convicted firearm felons might not work.

See....that is the thing......."During the offense that brought them to prison" that doesn't include all the murders, robberies and rapes that they used an illegal gun to accomplish........They would have to explain that more......

For example......

Here we have Chicago.....3 million people...how many are likely to do the shooting and killing......?

Chicago police boss calls weekend gun violence 'completely unacceptable'

At an unrelated news conference Monday on the city's Southwest Side, Johnson brought up the Mother's Day weekend violence himself in his prepared remarks. He focused his remarks on how much of the bloodshed is being driven by about 1,300 individuals on the Police Department's "strategic subject list" — those believed to be most prone to violence as a victim or offender.

About 78 percent of the homicide victims and about 84 percent of the nonfatal shooting victims this weekend were on the list, he said.

"That means essentially we know who they are," he told reporters at 50th Street and South Karlov Avenue, where a Chicago police officer fatally shot a bank robbery suspect on Monday. "Oftentimes, they have gang affiliations, and many have had previous arrests and convictions."
----------
He then ticked off nearly 10 examples of how many arrests these victims had on their records, ranging from 20 each all the way up to 41.

So...if you want to stop gun violence....you lock up these 1,300 repeat offenders for 30 years...........Chicago has a bad practice of granting bail.....to gun criminals, and then giving them under 2 years for illegal gun possession........and then they wonder why they have a high gun murder rate....

 

[alang1216]

Our murder rate today is virtually the same as it was in 1950 despite having more guns in private hands.

I'd say the US gun market is saturated with many (most?) owners having more than one gun. The percent of U.S. adults either own a firearm personally, or live with someone who does is down 17 points from the highest recorded rate in 1994, and down nearly 10 percentage points from 2012.

So if it is guns that make the murder rate higher then why is our murder rate the same as it was in 1950 and not much higher?

Another trend is that American gun ownership dropped to the lowest in nearly 40 years as the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. Cause and effect? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

The answer is that it is not merely guns that dictate murder rates and that there are much more complex cultural, demographic and sociological factors involved

On that we can agree but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and give up. We should look at each factor and try to mitigate its effects. That would include guns.

 

[alang1216]

I've never argued for removing guns, I'd just like to coexist with them.
Is there a way of cutting the number of gun deaths in the US without confiscating guns? I'm not afraid to ask the question, areyou?

The huge majority of gun-related deaths - better than 2/3 - are from suicide.
How do you suppose we cut those deaths?

I have no idea but I think it is worth looking at. Maybe if there was no Dickey Amendment we'd have some ideas.

 

[alang1216]

Not sure why that matters but, no. Although my daughter lives there and I'm naturally concerned for her safety.

Federal law requires an ID when buying a gun.from a dealer.[/QUOTE]
What about private sales or gun shows?

 

[alang1216]

If you are not in a democrat voting district in a democrat controlled inner city....our gun crime rate is at or below that of Europe....our criminals in the inner city drive our gun murder rate, not normal, law abiding guns owners......

Why is that so hard for you guys to understand?

Most people who live in a democrat voting district in a democrat controlled inner city are normal, law abiding citizens.

Why is it so hard for you guys to care?

 

[alang1216]

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in 1990s........and now we have 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016......and can you tell us what happened to the gun murder rate?

The murder rate has declined but so has the percent of households with guns.

Values....not guns....are the issue.

Complex problems don't have simple solutions. Values are NOT the only factors.

 

[alang1216]

So...if you want to stop gun violence....you lock up these 1,300 repeat offenders for 30 years...........Chicago has a bad practice of granting bail.....to gun criminals, and then giving them under 2 years for illegal gun possession........and then they wonder why they have a high gun murder rate....

If you're saying our criminal justice system is broken I doubt anyone would disagree. If you're saying that is the only factor, I doubt very many would agree.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'd say the US gun market is saturated with many (most?) owners having more than one gun. The percent of U.S. adults either own a firearm personally, or live with someone who does is down 17 points from the highest recorded rate in 1994, and down nearly 10 percentage points from 2012.

If you believe the wildly-fluctuating survey results, sure.
What's your point?

Another trend is that American gun ownership dropped to the lowest in nearly 40 years as the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. Cause and effect? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

But, you're happy to allow the implication lie there. Honest of you.

On that we can agree but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and give up. We should look at each factor and try to mitigate its effects. That would include guns.

Propose a gun control law that prevents criminals from getting guns and does not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding and I will stand behind you.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I've never argued for removing guns, I'd just like to coexist with them.
Is there a way of cutting the number of gun deaths in the US without confiscating guns? I'm not afraid to ask the question, areyou?

The huge majority of gun-related deaths - better than 2/3 - are from suicide.
How do you suppose we cut those deaths?

I have no idea but I think it is worth looking at. Maybe if there was no Dickey Amendment we'd have some ideas.

Ah.
You're happy to complain, but won't offer solutions.
This makes you part of the problem.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Not sure why that matters but, no. Although my daughter lives there and I'm naturally concerned for her safety.

Federal law requires an ID when buying a gun.from a dealer.

What about private sales or gun shows?[/QUOTE]
All purchases thru an FFL require an ID, gun show or otherwise.
Private sales do not.
However, private sales to people that live out-of-state require the transaction to be handled by an FFL dealer.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If you are not in a democrat voting district in a democrat controlled inner city....our gun crime rate is at or below that of Europe....our criminals in the inner city drive our gun murder rate, not normal, law abiding guns owners......

Why is that so hard for you guys to understand?

Most people who live in a democrat voting district in a democrat controlled inner city are normal, law abiding citizens.

"Most" means 50%+1.

 

[2aguy]

Our murder rate today is virtually the same as it was in 1950 despite having more guns in private hands.

I'd say the US gun market is saturated with many (most?) owners having more than one gun. The percent of U.S. adults either own a firearm personally, or live with someone who does is down 17 points from the highest recorded rate in 1994, and down nearly 10 percentage points from 2012.

So if it is guns that make the murder rate higher then why is our murder rate the same as it was in 1950 and not much higher?

Another trend is that American gun ownership dropped to the lowest in nearly 40 years as the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. Cause and effect? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

The answer is that it is not merely guns that dictate murder rates and that there are much more complex cultural, demographic and sociological factors involved

On that we can agree but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and give up. We should look at each factor and try to mitigate its effects. That would include guns.

Actually, that isn't true.....the survey the anti gunners use to show gun ownership down is the General Social Survey....it is run by an anti gunner who wants to use his research to encourage politicians to enact more gun control.....

With millions of guns being sold, and record sales months more people are just not answering the questions of unknown pollsters on wether they have a gun in the home......

 

[alang1216]

Our murder rate today is virtually the same as it was in 1950 despite having more guns in private hands

I'd say the US gun market is saturated with many (most?) owners having more than one gun. The percent of U.S. adults either own a firearm personally, or live with someone who does is down 17 points from the highest recorded rate in 1994, and down nearly 10 percentage points from 2012.

If you believe the wildly-fluctuating survey results, sure.
What's your point?

You said

Our murder rate today is virtually the same as it was in 1950 despite having more guns in private hands

While its true we have more guns we have fewer "hands". So you can look at the numbers as fewer hands with guns result in fewer murders.

Another trend is that American gun ownership dropped to the lowest in nearly 40 years as the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. Cause and effect? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

But, you're happy to allow the implication lie there. Honest of you.

I was honest that I don't know for sure. Were you any more honest when you equated the murder rate with the number of guns in private hands. [/QUOTE]

On that we can agree but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and give up. We should look at each factor and try to mitigate its effects. That would include guns.

Propose a gun control law that prevents criminals from getting guns and does not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding and I will stand behind you.

Are you OK with gun registration, background checks and mandatory training? I usually hear that such things are opposed by the gun lobby, not because they infringe upon the rights of the law abiding but because they are the first step on the slippery slope to gun confiscation.

 

[2aguy]

Not sure why that matters but, no. Although my daughter lives there and I'm naturally concerned for her safety.

Federal law requires an ID when buying a gun.from a dealer.

What about private sales or gun shows?[/QUOTE]


IF you are a licensed dealer at a gun show you have to get a background check...if you are a private seller selling from your personal collection you don't need to......and since that isn't where crime guns are coming from....and guns are not illegal.....there is no reason to require background checks for when the widow Johnson sells her husbands pistol......

 

[2aguy]

I've never argued for removing guns, I'd just like to coexist with them.
Is there a way of cutting the number of gun deaths in the US without confiscating guns? I'm not afraid to ask the question, areyou?

The huge majority of gun-related deaths - better than 2/3 - are from suicide.
How do you suppose we cut those deaths?

I have no idea but I think it is worth looking at. Maybe if there was no Dickey Amendment we'd have some ideas.

Are you really pushing the lie that the CDC can't do gun research....I have had several threads that have listed actual gun reserach by the CDC......

 

[2aguy]

If you are not in a democrat voting district in a democrat controlled inner city....our gun crime rate is at or below that of Europe....our criminals in the inner city drive our gun murder rate, not normal, law abiding guns owners......

Why is that so hard for you guys to understand?

Most people who live in a democrat voting district in a democrat controlled inner city are normal, law abiding citizens.

Why is it so hard for you guys to care?

But the guys doing the shooting are still primarily democrats...who vote according to what there gang leaders tell them......especially here in chicago where the gangs run the aldermen......

We actually do care...we want the violent democrats put in jail to protect the innocent ones.....you guys....you focus on adding more paperwork and hoops for normal gun owners to jump through...the people who aren't shooting people...while the prosecutors and judges keep releasing the violent shooters who are caught in possession of illegal guns....

Focus on actual gun criminals instead of taking guns away from normal gun owners.....

 

[alang1216]

"Most" means 50%+1.

It also means 100%-1. What's your point, that almost 1/2 of the people in a democrat voting district in a democrat controlled inner city are adding to the murder rate?

 

[2aguy]

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in 1990s........and now we have 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016......and can you tell us what happened to the gun murder rate?

The murder rate has declined but so has the percent of households with guns.

Values....not guns....are the issue.

Complex problems don't have simple solutions. Values are NOT the only factors.

The percent of households with guns has not gone down....again, the General Social Survey is an anti gun tool............

The only factor that will reduce gun violence is the values factor. Disarming people who are not shooting people isn't going to do anything.

 

[2aguy]

So...if you want to stop gun violence....you lock up these 1,300 repeat offenders for 30 years...........Chicago has a bad practice of granting bail.....to gun criminals, and then giving them under 2 years for illegal gun possession........and then they wonder why they have a high gun murder rate....

If you're saying our criminal justice system is broken I doubt anyone would disagree. If you're saying that is the only factor, I doubt very many would agree.

Short term it is the only solution.....our justice system is not locking up gun criminals...obama has reduced gun crime prosecutions at the federal level over 40%.......and Chicago has a revolving door policy for felons caught with illegal guns....that is what you need to fix....not adding more paperwork to law abiding gun owners.

 

[2aguy]

Our murder rate today is virtually the same as it was in 1950 despite having more guns in private hands

I'd say the US gun market is saturated with many (most?) owners having more than one gun. The percent of U.S. adults either own a firearm personally, or live with someone who does is down 17 points from the highest recorded rate in 1994, and down nearly 10 percentage points from 2012.

If you believe the wildly-fluctuating survey results, sure.
What's your point?

You said

Our murder rate today is virtually the same as it was in 1950 despite having more guns in private hands

While its true we have more guns we have fewer "hands". So you can look at the numbers as fewer hands with guns result in fewer murders.

Another trend is that American gun ownership dropped to the lowest in nearly 40 years as the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. Cause and effect? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

But, you're happy to allow the implication lie there. Honest of you.

I was honest that I don't know for sure. Were you any more honest when you equated the murder rate with the number of guns in private hands.

On that we can agree but that doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and give up. We should look at each factor and try to mitigate its effects. That would include guns.

Propose a gun control law that prevents criminals from getting guns and does not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding and I will stand behind you.

Are you OK with gun registration, background checks and mandatory training? I usually hear that such things are opposed by the gun lobby, not because they infringe upon the rights of the law abiding but because they are the first step on the slippery slope to gun confiscation.[/QUOTE]


Yes...after going from 200 million guns in the 1990s to 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....so guns are not increasing the crime rate.......