CDZ gun magazine bullet limits...they only effect law abiding gun owners so why do we need them.

[2aguy]

Their criminals don't commit murder as often as our criminals do...regardless of weapon......and yet they have easy access to guns..........our non gun murder rate is higher than their entire murder rate......

It is the criminal culture and their willingness to commit murder that is different...our criminals shoot and murder 9 year old boys in alleys to get revenge on the boys gang banger father......theirs don't do that......

You believe that the mere precense of guns creates gun murder....and that is where you are wrong.......

We had 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s......we now have 357,000,000 guns in private hands...and our gun murder rate went down........our gun crime rate went down....our violent crime rate went down......adding guns did not increase gun crime...you are wrong.

Britain confiscated guns from law abiding gun owners...and their gun crime rate stayed the same......

Guns do not create murder.....social factors that create the criminal sub culture and their attitude toward murder do.......

I don't see a French gun murder rate ANYWHERE in this tripe. Are you afraid to answer?

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

Not by comparing murder rates in the UK in 1950 and now when the gun control laws were passed in 1968, it doesn't.
I'm not holding my breath. You won't because the numbers won't look good for your argument, I'm guessing.

Our gun murder rate is lower now than ever before...and we have 357,000,000 guns in private hands.........

 

[2aguy]

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

Actual facts show you are wrong......more people have more guns.....and our gun murder rate went down.......from 1990s to 2016...by almost 50%... You are wrong.......

We all know you're being intellectually dishonest with your cherry-picking of stats. We're all talking gun murders, not just murders.

Gun murders twit.........in the 1990s there were about 20,000 gun murders....now look....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

2006-- 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

 

[2aguy]

Jesus, what relationship did your reply bear to his post? That was bizarre. Dude made extremely valid points.

Probably the part where the poster suggested it would be nice if we made them feel more comfortable with our owning a firearm. They are only valid points if you assume everyone has to prove to you they are worthy to your satisfaction, when I really don't remember that being a requirement.

We are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. It is already against the law for convicted criminals and crazy people to own firearms. If you have a problem with the inability of the government to properly enforce the laws they already have in place, then that would not be a glowing recommendation towards the idea we should give them any more power to screw up with.

But alas, since you didn't grasp the meaning and implications in the post you responded to, or the post I was responding to, perhaps it is just better you don't dig your hole any deeper.

Being "innocent" doesn't absolve you from the duty of citizenship, including being subjected to background checks if you want certain privileges. No one knows you're a "good guy". All we know is you want to own a device capable of causing instant death for a room full of people. And you don't think that should carry some responsibilities? You have to be a nutjob to believe that.

I didn't see the word "comfortable" in his post at all. I don't think you're reading.

We have 357,000,000 guns in private hands.....and we had 586 accidental gun deaths.......

356,991,876 vs. 586

Those numbers show exactly how responsible American gun owners are......you guys will never accept the truth about guns....you think people cannot be trusted....you will never change your minds...no matter what the truth is...

 

[2aguy]

Being "innocent" doesn't absolve you from the duty of citizenship, including being subjected to background checks if you want certain privileges. No one knows you're a "good guy". All we know is you want to own a device capable of causing instant death for a room full of people. And you don't think that should carry some responsibilities? You have to be a nutjob to believe that.

I didn't see the word "comfortable" in his post at all. I don't think you're reading.

A right isn't a privilege, we are subject to background checks. It isn't my problem you are paranoid, because the existing law doesn't require me to nurture your foolishness. It does carry some responsibility, and you don't get to decide we are irresponsible because of your mental issues and insecurities.

Of course it's a privilege. And the background checks aren't universal. I'm not deciding you're irresponsible. Just because you need a test to get a driver's license doesn't meant the DMV is personally attacking you. Do you struggle at checkout lines because they want ID?

Wow.....the stupid is strong with you.

Criminals use people with clean records to pass the mandatory federal background checks at gun stores and licensed dealers at gun shows.......so your background check is a failure right there.

If a criminal wants a gun from a private seller, he would simply send in someone with a clean record to pass that universal background check too.......so your universal background check is a failure right there......

And you keep saying Universal Background Check...knowing this...showing that the stupid is strong with you......

Poll Taxes and Literacy tests were used by people like you to keep blacks from being able to vote.....you now want to use the same tactics to deny the poor and minorities access to guns.........different Right being attacked...same tactics......

 

[Hiryuu]

We have 357,000,000 guns in private hands.....and we had 586 accidental gun deaths.......

356,991,876 vs. 586

Those numbers show exactly how responsible American gun owners are......you guys will never accept the truth about guns....you think people cannot be trusted....you will never change your minds...no matter what the truth is...

When it comes to a comparison of accidental deaths in regards to firearms owners versus drivers, firearms owners are far more responsible and safe with the firearms than drivers are with their cars.

 

[2aguy]

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

Actual facts show you are wrong......more people have more guns.....and our gun murder rate went down.......from 1990s to 2016...by almost 50%... You are wrong.......

We all know you're being intellectually dishonest with your cherry-picking of stats. We're all talking gun murders, not just murders.

Here you go.....this is all murder........

1993.......24,526

2012.....14,827

So even with 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s......and 357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016....our total murder rate went down.....

More guns do not create more murder or more crime.....you are wrong.......

Table 1

 

[2aguy]

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

Actual facts show you are wrong......more people have more guns.....and our gun murder rate went down.......from 1990s to 2016...by almost 50%... You are wrong.......

We all know you're being intellectually dishonest with your cherry-picking of stats. We're all talking gun murders, not just murders.

Here you go twit.....from PEW research on gun murder....

200 million guns in private hands in 1990s........357,000,000 guns in 2016.........and the actual gun murder rate went down by 49%

You anti gunners have nothing........your beliefs are wrong.......nothing supports what you say about guns, gun ownership or how to solve gun crime.........

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

Actual facts show you are wrong......more people have more guns.....and our gun murder rate went down.......from 1990s to 2016...by almost 50%... You are wrong.......

We all know you're being intellectually dishonest with your cherry-picking of stats. We're all talking gun murders, not just murders.

Here is another source...twit.....

None of the facts support your position on guns.......


Gun murder

1993........ 18,253

2011........ 11,101
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

 

[Hiryuu]

We have 357,000,000 guns in private hands.....and we had 586 accidental gun deaths.......

356,991,876 vs. 586

Those numbers show exactly how responsible American gun owners are......you guys will never accept the truth about guns....you think people cannot be trusted....you will never change your minds...no matter what the truth is...

I know it is not directly related to the OP, but I had a question I thought was worth investigating, and was not surprised when I saw the answer.
Anyone else want to take a wild guess on which recreational activity is safer? Do you think there are more accidental deaths annually caused by the use of firearms or ATV's?

 

[alang1216]

If you actually look at the numbers you would see that outside of just 6 or so large cities our murder rate is not very different than other countries.

Our numbers are skewed by high levels of crime in urban just a few urban areas some of which have the strictest gun laws in the country

The reason for our higher murder rate is not merely gun ownership. It is due to social, demographic, economic, and a host of other problems with guns being quite low on the list

What percent of the US population lives in those cities? 1/2?

 

[Skull Pilot]

so a gun murder is somehow worse than a knife murder?

Murder is murder

Our murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950

The UK's murder rate is almost exactly what it was in 1950 and the UK passed extremely strict gun laws in 1968

So tell me why isn't the murder rate in the UK less that what it was in 1950 and why isn't ours astronomically higher than it was in 1950?

Link me to a comparison between UK's gun death rate in 1968 and UK's gun death rate now. Not murder rate, gun death rate. Please.

It doesn't matter.

You people say more guns equal more murder I have shown you that it doesn't

To a certain degree, it does.

Does one more gun equal one more murder? Not necessarily. But 300 million guns certainly means more murders than 300 guns.

Actual facts show you are wrong......more people have more guns.....and our gun murder rate went down.......from 1990s to 2016...by almost 50%... You are wrong.......

We all know you're being intellectually dishonest with your cherry-picking of stats. We're all talking gun murders, not just murders.

So is a murder with a gun somehow worse than a murder with a knife or bare hands?

You people always say more guns equals more murders and now that that has been proven wrong you want to qualify murders into different categories

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you actually look at the numbers you would see that outside of just 6 or so large cities our murder rate is not very different than other countries.

Our numbers are skewed by high levels of crime in urban just a few urban areas some of which have the strictest gun laws in the country

The reason for our higher murder rate is not merely gun ownership. It is due to social, demographic, economic, and a host of other problems with guns being quite low on the list

What percent of the US population lives in those cities? 1/2?

Not even close.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wrong. You hate guns.....so your beliefs about guns will not be swayed by evidence....

200 million guns in private hands in 1990s.....357,000,000 guns in private hands in 2016 and our gun murder rate dropped almost 50%... That is the truth....but you don't care.

Guns are just inanimate objects to me, I neither love them or hate them. I can appreciate people enjoy shooting them, I certainly do. I can also appreciate some people feel safer with a gun in their possession. I don't and I think the statistics will back me up but I don't want your gun, I just want to know you're a good guy. That doesn't seem like too big a thing to ask.

What would the murder rate have been if there had been no guns in private hands? Here are some other facts. The United States has the highest rate of gun ownership in the world — by far. And it has the highest rate of homicides among advanced countries.

If you actually look at the numbers you would see that outside of just 6 or so large cities our murder rate is not very different than other countries.

Our numbers are skewed by high levels of crime in urban just a few urban areas some of which have the strictest gun laws in the country

The reason for our higher murder rate is not merely gun ownership. It is due to social, demographic, economic, and a host of other problems with guns being quite low on the list

Those people in those urban areas matter, too. Without the guns, they would go back to knives, which require being within hitting distance, and a drive by knifing is much harder to accomplish and probably many innocent folk on the sidewalk or sitting in their living room wouldn't be hit. We need to get the guns out of the inner cities and more laws won't hinder that. The FBI also needs to get moving.

So tell me how will telling me what kinds of guns I can have and what size magazines I can have do anything to reduce crime in a city thousands of miles from me where the people committing crimes with guns are getting those guns illegally?

We need to put people who acquire guns illegally, who sell guns illegally and who use guns to commit crimes in jail for a long time. THAT will go a lot farther towards reducing gun crime in cities than telling law abiding people they can't own an AR 15 or a magazine with a more than 10 round capacity

 

[2aguy]

If you actually look at the numbers you would see that outside of just 6 or so large cities our murder rate is not very different than other countries.

Our numbers are skewed by high levels of crime in urban just a few urban areas some of which have the strictest gun laws in the country

The reason for our higher murder rate is not merely gun ownership. It is due to social, demographic, economic, and a host of other problems with guns being quite low on the list

What percent of the US population lives in those cities? 1/2?

Sorry....in Chicago there are 3 million people...the police have a list of known criminals...1,333 of them and 80% of the shooters come from that list.......and the areas of the city where the shootings happen are tiny......so locking up that small number of morons, who are repeatedly arrested with illegal guns....is the only way to stop gun crime and murder in those cities....

If you do that one thing......you will reduce gun murders in this country to levels below Europe...but for some reason, prosecutors and judges just won't do it.....

even obama...who wants more gun control......reduced gun prosecutions at the federal level over 30% since he has been in office....

So tell us again how serious you guys are to actually stop gun murder and not simply attacking law abiding gun owners.

 

[alang1216]

Sorry....in Chicago there are 3 million people...the police have a list of known criminals...1,333 of them and 80% of the shooters come from that list.......and the areas of the city where the shootings happen are tiny......so locking up that small number of morons, who are repeatedly arrested with illegal guns....is the only way to stop gun crime and murder in those cities...

I have no problem with locking up violent criminals and if that is all it takes to eliminate gun violence then I'd agree gun controls are not needed.

I'm not a statistician but I'm not sure your numbers compute:

During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun; about 2% had a military-style semiautomatic gun or machine gun.​

I know you don't want to punish a gun owner BEFORE a crime is committed and it seems few criminals are caught with a firearm so locking up the 13-15% of convicted firearm felons might not work.

 

[alang1216]

If you actually look at the numbers you would see that outside of just 6 or so large cities our murder rate is not very different than other countries.

Our numbers are skewed by high levels of crime in urban just a few urban areas some of which have the strictest gun laws in the country

The reason for our higher murder rate is not merely gun ownership. It is due to social, demographic, economic, and a host of other problems with guns being quite low on the list

What percent of the US population lives in those cities? 1/2?

Not even close.

The urban areas of the United States for the 2010 Census contain 249,253,271 people, representing 80.7% of the population, and rural areas contain 59,492,276 people, or 19.3% of the population

Ignoring urban areas means ignoring a sizeable percentage of the US. As for having strict gun laws, DC is a gun control city but it is next to Virginia with it's lax gun regs. To make matters worse, Congress has invalidated some DC laws, overruling the democratically elected board.

 

[Hiryuu]

The urban areas of the United States for the 2010 Census contain 249,253,271 people, representing 80.7% of the population, and rural areas contain 59,492,276 people, or 19.3% of the population

Ignoring urban areas means ignoring a sizeable percentage of the US. As for having strict gun laws, DC is a gun control city but it is next to Virginia with it's lax gun regs. To make matters worse, Congress has invalidated some DC laws, overruling the democratically elected board.

So are the criminals going from DC to Virginia to acquire weapons, or are the criminals going from Virginia to DC to commit crimes? If the criminals are not coming from Virginia, then the crimes they commit are not Virginia's problem. If the only solution DC can think of is to punish Virginia for DC's criminals and crimes, then that is not acceptable.

No one is suggesting that DC doesn't have a problem, they are simply suggesting that it is not Virginia's responsibility to fix DC's problem. The people of Virginia didn't vote for nor install the local officials in DC, and if DC wants to have safer streets, then they have to figure out what they can do within their jurisdiction. If the people in DC are dissatisfied with the results of their elected officials, then they are more than welcome to replace them with more competent alternatives.

If DC cannot manage to handle its business without violating the Constitution, then that would suggest the people who have been elected are incapable of doing what is necessary and should be replaced.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you actually look at the numbers you would see that outside of just 6 or so large cities our murder rate is not very different than other countries.

Our numbers are skewed by high levels of crime in urban just a few urban areas some of which have the strictest gun laws in the country

The reason for our higher murder rate is not merely gun ownership. It is due to social, demographic, economic, and a host of other problems with guns being quite low on the list

What percent of the US population lives in those cities? 1/2?

Not even close.

The urban areas of the United States for the 2010 Census contain 249,253,271 people, representing 80.7% of the population, and rural areas contain 59,492,276 people, or 19.3% of the population

Ignoring urban areas means ignoring a sizeable percentage of the US. As for having strict gun laws, DC is a gun control city but it is next to Virginia with it's lax gun regs. To make matters worse, Congress has invalidated some DC laws, overruling the democratically elected board.

You'll notice I didn't say ALL urban areas just the most violent

 

[M14 Shooter]

What would the murder rate have been if there had been no guns in private hands?

US murder rate: 4.5/100k
US murder rate, minus gun-related murders: 1.5/100k.
That said, your question is meaningless.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Of course it's a privilege

Rights aren't privileges; the right to keep and near arms is a right.