Gun shop shooting.

[Correll]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

YOur strawman is especially dumb, even as strawmen go.

 

[pwjohn]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

So they say

 

[2aguy]

Some very interesting follow up to Kleck has been done since the initial survey was released.

People looked at the survey methods and asked if Kleck had accounted for things like social desiribility bias, strategic responses, telescoping and other ways of asking and answering survey questtions that give false positives.

Seems like the survey was lacking in good sound statistical anaylsis.

Which of course skewed the results.

things like possible 36 to 63% of DGU were likely illegal in the sense that someone involved in a criminal activity used a gun to defend themselves from another criminal.

or, the initial question was the use of a gun in the past 12 months for defensive purposes. there was no accounting for someone thinking of a DGU 3 years ago but indicating it happened in the past 12 months.

Klecks is not one of the better thought out surveys for having so much discussion about guns.

And there are other surveys that indicate the Kleck numbers are full of shit.

Let Googlebeyourfriend.

People looked at the survey methods and asked if Kleck had accounted for things like social desiribility bias, strategic responses, telescoping and other ways of asking and answering survey questtions that give false positives.

And if you read Kleck and his response he directly answers all of those questions, especially about telescoping…..

Kleck is always the ones the specifically talk about out of the last 40 years of gun self defense studies because his study was the most comprehensive and best put together…he corrected those errors of previous studies….

Please……do some actual research….read what Kleck actually said…..

No…what happened was they lied about Kleck's methods… and I have posted Kleck and his defense of his study over and over again…and notice……the 1.5 million did not come from Dr. Gary Kleck….that number 1.5 million defensive gun uses came from a rebuttal study against Kleck's study…..the study was created by 2 rabid anti gunners, under the direction of bill clinton and his Dept. of Justice…they put the actual study together, and executed the study in the hope of showing that Kleck's number…and the higher numbers of all of those other studies I linked to…..were wrong…and they came back in their own study with 1.5 million defensive gun uses…….around the middle of the pack for numbers of defensive gun uses……..

things like possible 36 to 63% of DGU were likely illegal in the sense that someone involved in a criminal activity used a gun to defend themselves from another criminal.

Kleck addressed this last year in a rebuttal to new hacks doing research. I have posted his direct response to this point in his article in Politico…….so again…..do some actual research…you will be much smarter for it….

And no…you are wrong…it wasn't criminals defending against another criminal…it was people like Suzanah Gratia Hupp……a woman in the 90s who was carrying a gun in her purse which was against the law in Texas…..she then decided not to risk a felony and left her gun in her car……and watched her parents get murdered in Luby's Cafe, a gun free zone according to Texas law…..

She then ran for the Texas legislature and helped change the law...

 

[2aguy]

Obviously need to get more guns in the gun shop to make it safe.


Father and son die in shootout at Pearl River County gun shop
Note: Authorities have released the names of all four people involved in a shooting at the gun store. To read the updated story, click here.
PICAYUNE -- A father and son were killed in a shootout with another man and his son at a gun store Saturday in Pearl River County's Henleyfield community.
Pearl River County deputies responding to the shooting on Mississippi 43 about 3:15 p.m. found the store owner and his son dead in the store, Chief Deputy Shane Tucker said.
The owner's wife was working at the store when two customers, a man and his son, entered to pick up a firearm that had been repaired.
"There was some contention about a $25 fee," Tucker said.
In an attempt to clear up the dispute, the woman called her husband, who later arrived with his son. An argument ensued between the owners and the customers.
"During this argument, we believe there might have been some pushing and shoving," Tucker said. "One of the customers and one of the owners produced firearms. We don't know who shot first."
All four men were shot. The two customers were airlifted to a hospital with life-threatening injuries, Tucker said.
By Sunday morning, the son in hospital ICU was in stable condition, he said.
The wife of the owner was not wounded.
Investigators are trying to determine how the situation unfolded before any charges are filed, Sheriff David Allison said.
CRIME
Read more here: http://www.sunherald.com/news/local/crime/article56305535.html#storylink=cpy

Did the good guy win?

The good guy was able to fight back…..instead of dying without a chance…as happens in your gun free zones when people are simply murdered with no chance to survive…..

And the bad guys….they went to the hospital…instead of also killing the wife….so a life was saved...

 

[2aguy]

Some very interesting follow up to Kleck has been done since the initial survey was released.

People looked at the survey methods and asked if Kleck had accounted for things like social desiribility bias, strategic responses, telescoping and other ways of asking and answering survey questtions that give false positives.

Seems like the survey was lacking in good sound statistical anaylsis.

Which of course skewed the results.

things like possible 36 to 63% of DGU were likely illegal in the sense that someone involved in a criminal activity used a gun to defend themselves from another criminal.

or, the initial question was the use of a gun in the past 12 months for defensive purposes. there was no accounting for someone thinking of a DGU 3 years ago but indicating it happened in the past 12 months.

Klecks is not one of the better thought out surveys for having so much discussion about guns.

And there are other surveys that indicate the Kleck numbers are full of shit.

Let Googlebeyourfriend.

And here it is….Kleck's most recent explanation of why his critics are full of crap…….from 2015…

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082.html#.VOX70cbJBW6


It’s deja vu all over again. In a recent Politico Magazine article, Evan DeFilippis and Devin Hughes resuscitate criticisms of a survey on defensive gun use that I conducted with my colleague Marc Gertz way back in 1993—the National Self-Defense Survey (NSDS).

The authors repeat, item for item, speculative criticisms floated by a man named David Hemenway in 1997 and repeated endlessly since. The conclusion these critics drew is that our survey grossly overestimated the frequency of defensive gun use (DGU), a situation in which a crime victim uses a gun to threaten or attack the offender in self-defense.

But what DeFilippis and Hughes carefully withheld from readers is the fact that I and my colleague have refuted every one of Hemenway’s dubious claims, and those by other critics of the NSDS, first in 1997, and again, even more extensively, in 1998 and 2001.

Skeptical readers can check for themselves if we failed to refute them—the 1998 version is publicly available here.


More seriously motivated readers could acquire a copy of Armed, a 2001 book by Don Kates and me, and read chapter six.


If DeFilippis and Hughes could refute any of our rebuttals, that would be news worth attending to.

They do not, however, identify any problems with our refutations, such as errors in our logic, or superior evidence that contradicts any of our rebuttals.

Instead, they just pretend they are not aware of the rebuttals, even though our first systematic dismantling of Hemenway’s speculations was published in the exact same issue of the journal that published Hemenway's 1997 critique, on the pages immediately following the Hemenway article.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082#ixzz3yIB5aK9R


Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082#ixzz3xi9tfFO6

 

[2aguy]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

So they say

Who exactly says that?

 

[pwjohn]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

So they say

Who exactly says that?

That seems to be the gist of what's being sold on this board

 

[Iceweasel]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

So they say

Who exactly says that?

That seems to be the gist of what's being sold on this board

No one actually said that, your mind is playing tricks on you.

 

[2aguy]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

So they say

Who exactly says that?

That seems to be the gist of what's being sold on this board

By who?

 

[pwjohn]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

So they say

Who exactly says that?

That seems to be the gist of what's being sold on this board

No one actually said that, your mind is playing tricks on you.

Not even close sweetheart.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So having a gun is no protection against gun crime ?

 

[charwin95]

shooting is statistically insignificant.. You know, a data outlier

You think that those two shooters are the ONLY two gun owners in the country that would shoot you over 25 bucks?

I thought you were familiar with Chicago?

Guess not eh.

The guys in Chicago who use guns to murder over 25 dollars are not allowed to own guns or carry them…..but they do it anyway because they need them to murder other people……..it is the people who don't use guns to commit crimes that have a hard time getting guns and carrying them….

That is the child like logic of anti gunners...

And I told you repeatedly.... I am a law abiding citizen and I can go to a gun shop store or at gun show and I can buy gun as many as I want. No problem...... So why keep repeating people will have hard time arming themselves?

Can you go to a gun store inside Chicago city limits?

Can you get a concealed carry permit in New York?

New Jersey?

California…?

And how much do you have to pay, and how long do you have to wait…..to exercise a Right….? You know, the democrats used Poll Taxes and literacy tests to keep blacks from voting, another fundamental Right…….any test, tax or fee on owning or carrying a gun is a violation of that Right.

According to you guns saves lives.... So if I have to go through this then it should not be a problem. What is the big deal?
The streets are flooded with guns because of gun nutters that supports guns. Now your goal is to drowned the public with more guns....... available like soda machine like every malls so you make more money. I know exactly how you are going to answer.... Sell it every liquor store. Do you even care about anything at all?
I don't close or lock my gates and I feel safe. Keys to my boat is always on the dash board.....I don't have a gun under my bed or my pillow and I'm comfortable with that.

 

[Iceweasel]

So having a gun is no protection against gun crime ?

No one said that either. Somebody owns your mind too.

 

[Iceweasel]

shooting is statistically insignificant.. You know, a data outlier

You think that those two shooters are the ONLY two gun owners in the country that would shoot you over 25 bucks?

I thought you were familiar with Chicago?

Guess not eh.

The guys in Chicago who use guns to murder over 25 dollars are not allowed to own guns or carry them…..but they do it anyway because they need them to murder other people……..it is the people who don't use guns to commit crimes that have a hard time getting guns and carrying them….

That is the child like logic of anti gunners...

And I told you repeatedly.... I am a law abiding citizen and I can go to a gun shop store or at gun show and I can buy gun as many as I want. No problem...... So why keep repeating people will have hard time arming themselves?

Can you go to a gun store inside Chicago city limits?

Can you get a concealed carry permit in New York?

New Jersey?

California…?

And how much do you have to pay, and how long do you have to wait…..to exercise a Right….? You know, the democrats used Poll Taxes and literacy tests to keep blacks from voting, another fundamental Right…….any test, tax or fee on owning or carrying a gun is a violation of that Right.

According to you guns saves lives.... So if I have to go through this then it should not be a problem. What is the big deal?
The streets are flooded with guns because of gun nutters that supports guns. Now your goal is to drowned the public with more guns....... available like soda machine like every malls so you make more money. I know exactly how you are going to answer.... Sell it every liquor store. Do you even care about anything at all?
I don't close or lock my gates and I feel safe. Keys to my boat is always on the dash board.....I don't have a gun under my bed or my pillow and I'm comfortable with that.

Who cares what you're comfortable with? The nuts are the people committing murder, not the major of gun owners. You're more likely to be taken out by a drunk driver and will have little defense. I will have some defense if attacked by a thug with a gun.

 

[2aguy]

shooting is statistically insignificant.. You know, a data outlier

You think that those two shooters are the ONLY two gun owners in the country that would shoot you over 25 bucks?

I thought you were familiar with Chicago?

Guess not eh.

The guys in Chicago who use guns to murder over 25 dollars are not allowed to own guns or carry them…..but they do it anyway because they need them to murder other people……..it is the people who don't use guns to commit crimes that have a hard time getting guns and carrying them….

That is the child like logic of anti gunners...

And I told you repeatedly.... I am a law abiding citizen and I can go to a gun shop store or at gun show and I can buy gun as many as I want. No problem...... So why keep repeating people will have hard time arming themselves?

Can you go to a gun store inside Chicago city limits?

Can you get a concealed carry permit in New York?

New Jersey?

California…?

And how much do you have to pay, and how long do you have to wait…..to exercise a Right….? You know, the democrats used Poll Taxes and literacy tests to keep blacks from voting, another fundamental Right…….any test, tax or fee on owning or carrying a gun is a violation of that Right.

According to you guns saves lives.... So if I have to go through this then it should not be a problem. What is the big deal?
The streets are flooded with guns because of gun nutters that supports guns. Now your goal is to drowned the public with more guns....... available like soda machine like every malls so you make more money. I know exactly how you are going to answer.... Sell it every liquor store. Do you even care about anything at all?
I don't close or lock my gates and I feel safe. Keys to my boat is always on the dash board.....I don't have a gun under my bed or my pillow and I'm comfortable with that.

No...it is a problem because self defense and gun ownership are a Right, not something that can be denied by an anti gun law enforcement official......the woman stabbed to death on her driveway in New Jersey was waiting to get her concealed carry permit and was unable to get it immediately because they were screwing around with her.....dittos the woman at the gun store I go to....I was leaving the range when my instructor said they had a woman in the store whose boyfriend said he was going to kill her....they were trying to help her get through the training requirements and paperwork..........

The democrats tried to deny Blacks their Right to vote using Poll Taxes and Literacy Tests....this is no different. When you put blocks on the exercise of a Right you are committing a crime...and it needs to stop.

 

[jon_berzerk]

mistakenly they let their guard down

Really? they were walking into their own store after being made aware there was two pissed off customers there and you think their guard was down eh?

It was the customers who fired first. they knew that the owners would be armed. And like any person with any sense knows, the person that shoots first has a distinct advantage. Even if the people being shot at are armed.

Do you know much about the element of SURPRISE? A surprise offensive ALWAYS has the advantage. At least initially.


But what I find strange about this is the wife hiding. You gunners are always going on about how women need to be armed blah blahblah. And here is a woman steeped in gun culture and when the shit hits the fan and her own men are involved and in a store full of guns, she hides. HUMMM. Whats that tell you?

exactly they let their guard down as i posted earlier asshole

 

[charwin95]

You think that those two shooters are the ONLY two gun owners in the country that would shoot you over 25 bucks?

I thought you were familiar with Chicago?

Guess not eh.

The guys in Chicago who use guns to murder over 25 dollars are not allowed to own guns or carry them…..but they do it anyway because they need them to murder other people……..it is the people who don't use guns to commit crimes that have a hard time getting guns and carrying them….

That is the child like logic of anti gunners...

And I told you repeatedly.... I am a law abiding citizen and I can go to a gun shop store or at gun show and I can buy gun as many as I want. No problem...... So why keep repeating people will have hard time arming themselves?

Can you go to a gun store inside Chicago city limits?

Can you get a concealed carry permit in New York?

New Jersey?

California…?

And how much do you have to pay, and how long do you have to wait…..to exercise a Right….? You know, the democrats used Poll Taxes and literacy tests to keep blacks from voting, another fundamental Right…….any test, tax or fee on owning or carrying a gun is a violation of that Right.

According to you guns saves lives.... So if I have to go through this then it should not be a problem. What is the big deal?
The streets are flooded with guns because of gun nutters that supports guns. Now your goal is to drowned the public with more guns....... available like soda machine like every malls so you make more money. I know exactly how you are going to answer.... Sell it every liquor store. Do you even care about anything at all?
I don't close or lock my gates and I feel safe. Keys to my boat is always on the dash board.....I don't have a gun under my bed or my pillow and I'm comfortable with that.

Who cares what you're comfortable with? The nuts are the people committing murder, not the major of gun owners. You're more likely to be taken out by a drunk driver and will have little defense. I will have some defense if attacked by a thug with a gun.

Am I talking to you?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I don't close or lock my gates and I feel safe. Keys to my boat is always on the dash board.....I don't have a gun under my bed or my pillow and I'm comfortable with that.

:chuckle:
What do you think this proves?

 

[charwin95]

You think that those two shooters are the ONLY two gun owners in the country that would shoot you over 25 bucks?

I thought you were familiar with Chicago?

Guess not eh.

The guys in Chicago who use guns to murder over 25 dollars are not allowed to own guns or carry them…..but they do it anyway because they need them to murder other people……..it is the people who don't use guns to commit crimes that have a hard time getting guns and carrying them….

That is the child like logic of anti gunners...

And I told you repeatedly.... I am a law abiding citizen and I can go to a gun shop store or at gun show and I can buy gun as many as I want. No problem...... So why keep repeating people will have hard time arming themselves?

Can you go to a gun store inside Chicago city limits?

Can you get a concealed carry permit in New York?

New Jersey?

California…?

And how much do you have to pay, and how long do you have to wait…..to exercise a Right….? You know, the democrats used Poll Taxes and literacy tests to keep blacks from voting, another fundamental Right…….any test, tax or fee on owning or carrying a gun is a violation of that Right.

According to you guns saves lives.... So if I have to go through this then it should not be a problem. What is the big deal?
The streets are flooded with guns because of gun nutters that supports guns. Now your goal is to drowned the public with more guns....... available like soda machine like every malls so you make more money. I know exactly how you are going to answer.... Sell it every liquor store. Do you even care about anything at all?
I don't close or lock my gates and I feel safe. Keys to my boat is always on the dash board.....I don't have a gun under my bed or my pillow and I'm comfortable with that.

No...it is a problem because self defense and gun ownership are a Right, not something that can be denied by an anti gun law enforcement official......the woman stabbed to death on her driveway in New Jersey was waiting to get her concealed carry permit and was unable to get it immediately because they were screwing around with her.....dittos the woman at the gun store I go to....I was leaving the range when my instructor said they had a woman in the store whose boyfriend said he was going to kill her....they were trying to help her get through the training requirements and paperwork..........

The democrats tried to deny Blacks their Right to vote using Poll Taxes and Literacy Tests....this is no different. When you put blocks on the exercise of a Right you are committing a crime...and it needs to stop.

This woman that you portrayed it happened that she get mugged while waiting for permit. Darn.......... What a coincidence.
Guy... You can give me all the explanation you want but your only goal is to drowned the public with more guns.......... And you are against any kind of restrictions that way it's easier for you to sell guns. That's your bottom line.

 

[Preacher]

But they were all armed.That should have guaranteed their safety.

Thats right isnt it ?

Ignorant troll managed to get himself put on ignore faster than anyone else in USMB history!