Gun violence in America.

[theDoctorisIn]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it."

Actually cars are more readily available than guns for impulse suicide. One little twist of the wheel and you're outta here!
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is some mythical but acceptable law that would actually reduce the availability of firearms in the home. I think you're more likely to find a unicorn in the basement.

I think you're reading something into my posts that isn't actually there.

I didn't suggest any sort of "law".

Yeah? Bullshit. The Statement you claimed was in error was:

"65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws."

What part of "...never be prevented by gun laws." do you not understand?

You're not understanding me.

I am not suggesting that any law be passed.

But there is no question that a massively restrictive set of gun laws, should they be passed, would prevent hundreds, if not thousands of suicides.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it."

Actually cars are more readily available than guns for impulse suicide. One little twist of the wheel and you're outta here!
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is some mythical but acceptable law that would actually reduce the availability of firearms in the home. I think you're more likely to find a unicorn in the basement.

I think you're reading something into my posts that isn't actually there.

I didn't suggest any sort of "law".

Yeah? Bullshit. The Statement you claimed was in error was:

"65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws."

What part of "...never be prevented by gun laws." do you not understand?

You're not understanding me.

I am not suggesting that any law be passed.

But there is no question that a massively restrictive set of gun laws, should they be passed, would prevent hundreds, if not thousands of suicides.

There is no proof of that since just as many people commit suicide without a firearm as those who do.

And should we really be telling people they cannot commit suicide?

Suicide is a choice and in many ways it is the pinnacle of all choice, the choice to be or not to be. Who are we to deny anyone the right to make that choice?

 

[RWNJ]

Bottom line. Guns are responsible for a very small percentage of deaths in America. In fact, you are six times more likely to die because your doctor misdiagnosed, or used the wrong treatment on you. I don't see any liberals demanding that we ban doctors.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it."

Actually cars are more readily available than guns for impulse suicide. One little twist of the wheel and you're outta here!
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is some mythical but acceptable law that would actually reduce the availability of firearms in the home. I think you're more likely to find a unicorn in the basement.

I think you're reading something into my posts that isn't actually there.

I didn't suggest any sort of "law".

Yeah? Bullshit. The Statement you claimed was in error was:

"65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws."

What part of "...never be prevented by gun laws." do you not understand?

You're not understanding me.

I am not suggesting that any law be passed.

But there is no question that a massively restrictive set of gun laws, should they be passed, would prevent hundreds, if not thousands of suicides.

There is no proof of that since just as many people commit suicide without a firearm as those who do.

And should we really be telling people they cannot commit suicide?

Suicide is a choice and in many ways it is the pinnacle of all choice, the choice to be or not to be. Who are we to deny anyone the right to make that choice?

Well, there is proof (or at least a very strong correlation) of that - as I mentioned previously with the example of suicides vs. coal-gas ovens.

And while I agree with you that suicide is a choice, nor would I attempt to deny anyone the "right" to make that choice, I am all in favor of making it harder, particularly when making it harder = it happening less.

I have multiple friends who I grew up with who went through periods of deep depression. A few of them made serious suicide attempts, but failed. Today, those people are, to a person, happy and well-adjusted members of society.

Who knows what would have happened if they'd had a gun in the house, rather than a bottle of Ambien or razor blades?

 

[RWNJ]

"Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it."

Actually cars are more readily available than guns for impulse suicide. One little twist of the wheel and you're outta here!
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is some mythical but acceptable law that would actually reduce the availability of firearms in the home. I think you're more likely to find a unicorn in the basement.

I think you're reading something into my posts that isn't actually there.

I didn't suggest any sort of "law".

Yeah? Bullshit. The Statement you claimed was in error was:

"65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws."

What part of "...never be prevented by gun laws." do you not understand?

You're not understanding me.

I am not suggesting that any law be passed.

But there is no question that a massively restrictive set of gun laws, should they be passed, would prevent hundreds, if not thousands of suicides.

There is no proof of that since just as many people commit suicide without a firearm as those who do.

And should we really be telling people they cannot commit suicide?

Suicide is a choice and in many ways it is the pinnacle of all choice, the choice to be or not to be. Who are we to deny anyone the right to make that choice?

Well, there is proof (or at least a very strong correlation) of that - as I mentioned previously with the example of suicides vs. coal-gas ovens.

And while I agree with you that suicide is a choice, nor would I attempt to deny anyone the "right" to make that choice, I am all in favor of making it harder, particularly when making it harder = it happening less.

I have multiple friends who I grew up with who went through periods of deep depression. A few of them made serious suicide attempts, but failed. Today, those people are, to a person, happy and well-adjusted members of society.

Who knows what would have happened if they'd had a gun in the house, rather than a bottle of Ambien or razor blades?

I guess you missed it when someone stated that it is just as easy to kill yourself with a car. Just run it off a cliff or into an immovable object at high speed. Presto! You're dead.

 

[Skull Pilot]

"Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it."

Actually cars are more readily available than guns for impulse suicide. One little twist of the wheel and you're outta here!
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is some mythical but acceptable law that would actually reduce the availability of firearms in the home. I think you're more likely to find a unicorn in the basement.

I think you're reading something into my posts that isn't actually there.

I didn't suggest any sort of "law".

Yeah? Bullshit. The Statement you claimed was in error was:

"65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws."

What part of "...never be prevented by gun laws." do you not understand?

You're not understanding me.

I am not suggesting that any law be passed.

But there is no question that a massively restrictive set of gun laws, should they be passed, would prevent hundreds, if not thousands of suicides.

There is no proof of that since just as many people commit suicide without a firearm as those who do.

And should we really be telling people they cannot commit suicide?

Suicide is a choice and in many ways it is the pinnacle of all choice, the choice to be or not to be. Who are we to deny anyone the right to make that choice?

Well, there is proof (or at least a very strong correlation) of that - as I mentioned previously with the example of suicides vs. coal-gas ovens.

And while I agree with you that suicide is a choice, nor would I attempt to deny anyone the "right" to make that choice, I am all in favor of making it harder, particularly when making it harder = it happening less.

I have multiple friends who I grew up with who went through periods of deep depression. A few of them made serious suicide attempts, but failed. Today, those people are, to a person, happy and well-adjusted members of society.

Who knows what would have happened if they'd had a gun in the house, rather than a bottle of Ambien or razor blades?

Making a choice harder means you are not in favor of choice.

And your examples while heartwarming are anecdotal.

I for one do not think anyone has the right to tell me I can't own a firearm because I might maybe someday in the near or distant future be depressed and use that gun to commit suicide and I would not deign to tell anyone what they can or cannot do.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it."

Actually cars are more readily available than guns for impulse suicide. One little twist of the wheel and you're outta here!
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is some mythical but acceptable law that would actually reduce the availability of firearms in the home. I think you're more likely to find a unicorn in the basement.

I think you're reading something into my posts that isn't actually there.

I didn't suggest any sort of "law".

Yeah? Bullshit. The Statement you claimed was in error was:

"65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws."

What part of "...never be prevented by gun laws." do you not understand?

You're not understanding me.

I am not suggesting that any law be passed.

But there is no question that a massively restrictive set of gun laws, should they be passed, would prevent hundreds, if not thousands of suicides.

OK. Then what is the error in what you quoted?
And there is certainly plenty of question about the effect of gun laws. Do you actually believe there are fewer than average suicides in Chicago and NYC than elsewhere?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it."

Actually cars are more readily available than guns for impulse suicide. One little twist of the wheel and you're outta here!
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that there is some mythical but acceptable law that would actually reduce the availability of firearms in the home. I think you're more likely to find a unicorn in the basement.

I think you're reading something into my posts that isn't actually there.

I didn't suggest any sort of "law".

Yeah? Bullshit. The Statement you claimed was in error was:

"65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws."

What part of "...never be prevented by gun laws." do you not understand?

You're not understanding me.

I am not suggesting that any law be passed.

But there is no question that a massively restrictive set of gun laws, should they be passed, would prevent hundreds, if not thousands of suicides.

OK. Then what is the error in what you quoted?
And there is certainly plenty of question about the effect of gun laws. Do you actually believe there are fewer than average suicides in Chicago and NYC than elsewhere?

I do believe it, because its completely true.

In fact, New York has the lowest suicide rate of any state in the country.

If you add the suicide rates of New York, New Jersey and Illinois together, you get Wyoming's suicide rate.

 

[Geaux4it]

I didn't write this, but the numbers speak for themselves!

Let's talk about gun violence:

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically small number! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths.
So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)
So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.
Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.
But what about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
Now it gets good:
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If the liberal loons and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ................ Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions! So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple:
Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace.
Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed."

Even if true, it’s all acceptable risk

-Geaux

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:"

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

So, if I'm misunderstanding you about gun laws, what is it you think is in error?

The assertion that gun laws would not prevent suicides.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:"

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

So, if I'm misunderstanding you about gun laws, what is it you think is in error?

The assertion that gun laws would not prevent suicides.

Then does it not follow that you do believe there are gun laws that prevent suicide and is it not reasonable to ask what those laws are or would be?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:"

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

So, if I'm misunderstanding you about gun laws, what is it you think is in error?

The assertion that gun laws would not prevent suicides.

Then does it not follow that you do believe there are gun laws that prevent suicide and is it not reasonable to ask what those laws are or would be?

Any gun laws that would lower the number of households with guns in them will prevent suicides.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:"

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

So, if I'm misunderstanding you about gun laws, what is it you think is in error?

The assertion that gun laws would not prevent suicides.

Then does it not follow that you do believe there are gun laws that prevent suicide and is it not reasonable to ask what those laws are or would be?

Any gun laws that would lower the number of households with guns in them will prevent suicides.

Then we've finally come full circle. I don't believe that the presence or absence of firearms in a household has any bearing on the overall numbers of suicides. Nor do I believe there is the possibility of any law being passed that will greatly reduce the numbers of households that contain guns.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

Suicide is almost always an impulse decision. Having a gun in the house allows one to act on that impulse immeditely, whereas 75% of people feeling suicidal will change their mind with time to weigh it.

You've probably heard the expression "sticking your head in the oven" to commit suicide. That's a reference to old, coal-gas stoves - the coal-gas would quickly asphyxiate someone who stuck their head into the oven, and it was a very popular way to commit suicide.

Guess what happened when people switched to gas or oil stoves? The suicide rate dropped by more than half.

"I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:"

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

So, if I'm misunderstanding you about gun laws, what is it you think is in error?

The assertion that gun laws would not prevent suicides.

Then does it not follow that you do believe there are gun laws that prevent suicide and is it not reasonable to ask what those laws are or would be?

Any gun laws that would lower the number of households with guns in them will prevent suicides.

Then we've finally come full circle. I don't believe that the presence or absence of firearms in a household has any bearing on the overall numbers of suicides. Nor do I believe there is the possibility of any law being passed that will greatly reduce the numbers of households that contain guns.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like.

There are numerous studies that show a distinct correlation between firearm ownership and suicide rate.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"I only just started reading your list, and there's a glaring error right at the top:"

65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.

So, if I'm misunderstanding you about gun laws, what is it you think is in error?

The assertion that gun laws would not prevent suicides.

Then does it not follow that you do believe there are gun laws that prevent suicide and is it not reasonable to ask what those laws are or would be?

Any gun laws that would lower the number of households with guns in them will prevent suicides.

Then we've finally come full circle. I don't believe that the presence or absence of firearms in a household has any bearing on the overall numbers of suicides. Nor do I believe there is the possibility of any law being passed that will greatly reduce the numbers of households that contain guns.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like.

There are numerous studies that show a distinct correlation between firearm ownership and suicide rate.

Link?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The assertion that gun laws would not prevent suicides.

Then does it not follow that you do believe there are gun laws that prevent suicide and is it not reasonable to ask what those laws are or would be?

Any gun laws that would lower the number of households with guns in them will prevent suicides.

Then we've finally come full circle. I don't believe that the presence or absence of firearms in a household has any bearing on the overall numbers of suicides. Nor do I believe there is the possibility of any law being passed that will greatly reduce the numbers of households that contain guns.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like.

There are numerous studies that show a distinct correlation between firearm ownership and suicide rate.

Link?

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/
Firearm Ownership and Suicide Rates Among US Men and Women, 1981–2013

 

[9thIDdoc]

From your source:

However, the results regarding the association between firearm ownership in a state or region and total suicide rates have been mixed, with several studies failing to find a relationship.15–17,26–29 This conflicting evidence led the National Research Council in 2004 to conclude that

this association is more modest than the association between [individual] firearm ownership and firearm suicide; it is less consistently observed across time, place, and persons; and the causal relation remains unclear.8(p192)

As recently as October 5, 2014, a Washington Post “fact checker” article reported that “studies have shown little connection between suicides and access to firearms.

No proof. Speculation only.