Gunman kills self after deadly shooting in Australia

[Rustic]

No laws will keep guns out the hands of criminals. The only thing a law can do is make it harder for a criminal to be able to get them. You only want gun laws to do something no other laws can do, which is totally reasonable.

They(gun control laws) only work on limiting law abiding people...

 

[Rustic]

Gun control nutters need to feel they are useful... Lol

 

[2aguy]

The trouble is the US has such a large firearm manufacturing industry that politicians can easily be swayed by its power. Most countries with low gun homicide rates effectively ban handguns. This cannot be countenanced by firearms manufacturers in the US, therefore the politicians they buy will not countenance such a measure.

Yeah...illegal guns in Australia are becoming more of a problem

Fists give way to firearms

There were further spikes in 2002 and November 2008.

''Every time it looks like the problem has been knocked on the head, or going down, it comes back up again,'' Weatherburn says. ''That's the pattern. Now we are smack bang in the middle of another rise.''

But this time it is different. Previous shooting spates were attributed to disputes and turf wars between crime families or bikie gangs bent on settling long-running scores.

Now, young men with no affiliations to either are arming themselves with illegal guns to settle feuds as insignificant as a misguided compliment or a fight at a party.

The shootings have become more indiscriminate, making the task more difficult for police trying to crack down on the violence.

Detectives can no longer just target two or three groups, instead they are left investigating a broader, unconnected series of incidents.

One senior police officer says young men will even use a shooting spate as an opportunity to carry out their own, in the belief they will fly under the radar and police will link it to other incidents.



Read more: Fists give way to firearms
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

 

[bodecea]

Gunman Kills Himself After Deadly Shooting... In Australia

BUT! BUT! Australia has anti gun laws! DAMN!

How exciting for you!

How damning for those who say gun laws will prevent this type of thing.

How exciting for you also. DId you do a happy dance?

 

[2aguy]

they have about the same level of gun violence as before the confiscation

They have less mass shootings.

And here you go.......

Reality Check: Did Australia And Great Britain See Lower Gun Violence After Mass Confiscation?

“In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the National Firearms Agreement. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.”

And a second report concluded that while the mandatory program did reduce the rate of “accidental” firearm deaths, it had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia and it also did not end mass shootings.

In 2002 two people were killed and five were injured in a shooting at Melbourne’s Monash University.

In 2011 three people were killed and three were wounded in the Hectorville siege.

In 2014, three people (including the gunman) were killed and four were injured in a Sydney hostage crisis.

What you need to know is that even with mass confiscation of weapons, Australia could not end all mass shootings and the rate of gun homicides wasn’t actually affected.

You were saying about mass shootings?

 

[Faun]

Gunman Kills Himself After Deadly Shooting... In Australia

BUT! BUT! Australia has anti gun laws! DAMN!

Dumb fucking argument...

Homicides by firearms, 2010-2012

Australia .......... 69
U.S. ........... 26,382

U.S. population approximately 13.5 times larger.

Actually, it is only 8,124 gun murders...the only ones that actually apply to this discussion.....

And again....it isn't the number but the reason Australian criminals...who get guns just like American criminals do......why do American thugs pull the trigger and commit murder more.

As was shown...we have 357,000,000 guns in this country...less than 8,124 were used to commit murder...

if gun access was what caused gun murder then you would have to have well over half the guns in the country used for murder......

8,124 out of 357,000,000 is nothing.....and of the 8,124 gun murders, the majority of them are violent criminals murdering other criminals...

And they kill each other in tiny areas of our major cities which are controlled by democrats.

The rest of the gun owning country is safe by the same standard as Europe and Australia.....

Australian criminals simply don't commit murder...

But that is changing......

Comparing apples to apples ...

69 homicides by firearms in Australia (the equivalent of 932 based on the size of the U.S. in comparison) over the 3 year period of 2010-2012.

One has to be dumber than shit to imply Australians are not safe from being killed by a firearm because one person was killed by one.

And for comparison purposes, over that same period, there were 26,382 homicides by firearm in the U.S.

 

[JakeStarkey]

2aguy is dumber than shit because he believes what he is writing.

He really thinks the adjusted Australian gun murder rate proves something other than what it does: the law there overwhelmingly cuts down on gun homicides.

 

[Faun]

The trouble is the US has such a large firearm manufacturing industry that politicians can easily be swayed by its power. Most countries with low gun homicide rates effectively ban handguns. This cannot be countenanced by firearms manufacturers in the US, therefore the politicians they buy will not countenance such a measure.

Yeah...illegal guns in Australia are becoming more of a problem

Fists give way to firearms

There were further spikes in 2002 and November 2008.

''Every time it looks like the problem has been knocked on the head, or going down, it comes back up again,'' Weatherburn says. ''That's the pattern. Now we are smack bang in the middle of another rise.''

But this time it is different. Previous shooting spates were attributed to disputes and turf wars between crime families or bikie gangs bent on settling long-running scores.

Now, young men with no affiliations to either are arming themselves with illegal guns to settle feuds as insignificant as a misguided compliment or a fight at a party.

The shootings have become more indiscriminate, making the task more difficult for police trying to crack down on the violence.

Detectives can no longer just target two or three groups, instead they are left investigating a broader, unconnected series of incidents.

One senior police officer says young men will even use a shooting spate as an opportunity to carry out their own, in the belief they will fly under the radar and police will link it to other incidents.



Read more: Fists give way to firearms
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

And gun deaths are near recent lows (as of 2012 and including suicides)...

 

[2aguy]

Gunman Kills Himself After Deadly Shooting... In Australia

BUT! BUT! Australia has anti gun laws! DAMN!

Dumb fucking argument...

Homicides by firearms, 2010-2012

Australia .......... 69
U.S. ........... 26,382

U.S. population approximately 13.5 times larger.

Actually, it is only 8,124 gun murders...the only ones that actually apply to this discussion.....

And again....it isn't the number but the reason Australian criminals...who get guns just like American criminals do......why do American thugs pull the trigger and commit murder more.

As was shown...we have 357,000,000 guns in this country...less than 8,124 were used to commit murder...

if gun access was what caused gun murder then you would have to have well over half the guns in the country used for murder......

8,124 out of 357,000,000 is nothing.....and of the 8,124 gun murders, the majority of them are violent criminals murdering other criminals...

And they kill each other in tiny areas of our major cities which are controlled by democrats.

The rest of the gun owning country is safe by the same standard as Europe and Australia.....

Australian criminals simply don't commit murder...

But that is changing......

Comparing apples to apples ...

69 homicides by firearms in Australia (the equivalent of 932 based on the size of the U.S. in comparison) over the 3 year period of 2010-2012.

One has to be dumber than shit to imply Australians are not safe from being killed by a firearm because one person was killed by one.

And for comparison purposes, over that same period, there were 26,382 homicides by firearm in the U.S.

Well...dumber than shit....that isn't what I am saying......try paying closer attention....my point is that criminals in Australia have easy access to guns....the stories I post show that even 15 year old immigrants to Australia and even older immigrants, get guns easily.

The difference between the United States and Australia is that the criminals in Australia do not commit murder as often, even though they have easy access to guns...

And the only reason they haven't had more mass shootings since the confiscation is that the shooters in various shootings have not decided to murder more people.

There were very few mass shootings in Australia before the confiscation...and now there are the same number after the confiscation.....and gun crime was not a major problem in Australia before the gun confiscation...and it is now becoming one after the confiscation.

What are you twits going to say as the gun crime rates in these countries with gun control continue to go up.....as they have in Britain and now Australia....?

And let me put this to you since your other anti gun nut posters refuse to answer this...

In 2012 there were 11.1 million Americans carrying guns for self defense...our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again.

in 2013 there were 12.8 million Americans carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again....

in 2014 there wer 13 million people carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again......

If access to guns means more violent crime and more gun murder...then why do our crime stats keep going down as more Americans carry guns for self defense and more Americans own guns....especially women and minorities?

And this is not about causation....that is another discussion...this is about the point of anti gun nuts who keep saying more guns will lead to more violence and more gun murder...when the truth, the facts and reality show otherwise.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Australia and Great Britain prove your argument wrong, guy.

 

[2aguy]

The trouble is the US has such a large firearm manufacturing industry that politicians can easily be swayed by its power. Most countries with low gun homicide rates effectively ban handguns. This cannot be countenanced by firearms manufacturers in the US, therefore the politicians they buy will not countenance such a measure.

Yeah...illegal guns in Australia are becoming more of a problem

Fists give way to firearms

There were further spikes in 2002 and November 2008.

''Every time it looks like the problem has been knocked on the head, or going down, it comes back up again,'' Weatherburn says. ''That's the pattern. Now we are smack bang in the middle of another rise.''

But this time it is different. Previous shooting spates were attributed to disputes and turf wars between crime families or bikie gangs bent on settling long-running scores.

Now, young men with no affiliations to either are arming themselves with illegal guns to settle feuds as insignificant as a misguided compliment or a fight at a party.

The shootings have become more indiscriminate, making the task more difficult for police trying to crack down on the violence.

Detectives can no longer just target two or three groups, instead they are left investigating a broader, unconnected series of incidents.

One senior police officer says young men will even use a shooting spate as an opportunity to carry out their own, in the belief they will fly under the radar and police will link it to other incidents.



Read more: Fists give way to firearms
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

And gun deaths are near recent lows (as of 2012 and including suicides)...

As you can see there was a trend going on before the confiscated their guns.........and now gun crime is going up, as I have posted...they have had at least 2 near misses for mass public shootings in the last year....and the level of gun ownership is back where it was before the confiscation....

Get ready for more gun crime.....it is coming....

 

[2aguy]

Australia and Great Britain prove your argument wrong, guy.

You do realize that in Britain where they confiscated guns.....they are now arming more police who were previously disarmed....and their gun crime rate went up 4% last year.....

And gun crime is increasing in Australia as well......and their gun ownership rates...in a country that confiscated guns, is back to where it was before the confiscation....

And do you realize that the U.S. violent crime rate went down at a higher rate than Australia....and we bought more guns and more people carry them...and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate has gone down.....

 

[2aguy]

The trouble is the US has such a large firearm manufacturing industry that politicians can easily be swayed by its power. Most countries with low gun homicide rates effectively ban handguns. This cannot be countenanced by firearms manufacturers in the US, therefore the politicians they buy will not countenance such a measure.

Yeah...illegal guns in Australia are becoming more of a problem

Fists give way to firearms

There were further spikes in 2002 and November 2008.

''Every time it looks like the problem has been knocked on the head, or going down, it comes back up again,'' Weatherburn says. ''That's the pattern. Now we are smack bang in the middle of another rise.''

But this time it is different. Previous shooting spates were attributed to disputes and turf wars between crime families or bikie gangs bent on settling long-running scores.

Now, young men with no affiliations to either are arming themselves with illegal guns to settle feuds as insignificant as a misguided compliment or a fight at a party.

The shootings have become more indiscriminate, making the task more difficult for police trying to crack down on the violence.

Detectives can no longer just target two or three groups, instead they are left investigating a broader, unconnected series of incidents.

One senior police officer says young men will even use a shooting spate as an opportunity to carry out their own, in the belief they will fly under the radar and police will link it to other incidents.



Read more: Fists give way to firearms
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

And gun deaths are near recent lows (as of 2012 and including suicides)...

And another factoid........U.S. violent crime fell faster than Australian violent crime...and gun crime.......as more Americans bought, own and carried guns...

As I keep pointing out...access to guns does not increase violent crime or gun murder.....

 

[2aguy]

2aguy is dumber than shit because he believes what he is writing.

He really thinks the adjusted Australian gun murder rate proves something other than what it does: the law there overwhelmingly cuts down on gun homicides.

Sorry...access to guns is not the issue.....the issue is the criminal sub culture and their willingness to commit murder....



Reality Check: Did Australia And Great Britain See Lower Gun Violence After Mass Confiscation?

“In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the National Firearms Agreement. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.”

And a second report concluded that while the mandatory program did reduce the rate of “accidental” firearm deaths, it had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia and it also did not end mass shootings.

In 2002 two people were killed and five were injured in a shooting at Melbourne’s Monash University.

In 2011 three people were killed and three were wounded in the Hectorville siege.

In 2014, three people (including the gunman) were killed and four were injured in a Sydney hostage crisis.

What you need to know is that even with mass confiscation of weapons, Australia could not end all mass shootings and the rate of gun homicides wasn’t actually affected.

 

[2aguy]

Australia and Great Britain prove your argument wrong, guy.

And some more truth...

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work – And it Wouldn’t Work in America, by Mark Antonio Wright, National Review

I noted at the time that:

While the chart does show a steady decline in gun-related suicides, the reduction occurred at the same time as an overall reduction in the Australian suicide rate. What’s more, firearm-related suicides had been declining in Australia for nearly ten years before the 1996 restrictions on gun ownership.

Vox’s own chart does not appear to show a causal link between gun control and a reduction in suicide rates in Australia.


Moreover, a look at other developed countries with very strict gun-control laws (such as Japan and South Korea) shows that the lack of guns does not lead to a reduced suicide rate.

Unfortunately, people who want to kill themselves often find a way to do so — guns or no guns.
Did the Australian model at least reduce gun-related homicides?

That is hotly disputed.

University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”


“Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”

A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.

Read more at: Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work – And it Wouldn’t Work in America, by Mark Antonio Wright, National Review

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can posting all the nonsense you want, 2aguy, and it is still nonsense.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Gunman Kills Himself After Deadly Shooting... In Australia
BUT! BUT! Australia has anti gun laws! DAMN!

Yes they do and that`s why it`s so much safer there than here. The gun buy back was a huge success and I thank you for bringing this up.
Australia enacted one of the largest gun reforms ever nearly 2 decades ago — and gun deaths plummeted

We didn't enact such laws -- indeed, the number of guns in the US went up by dozens of millions - and our violent crime fell moire than theirs
How can that be?

 

[Faun]

Gunman Kills Himself After Deadly Shooting... In Australia

BUT! BUT! Australia has anti gun laws! DAMN!

Dumb fucking argument...

Homicides by firearms, 2010-2012

Australia .......... 69
U.S. ........... 26,382

U.S. population approximately 13.5 times larger.

Actually, it is only 8,124 gun murders...the only ones that actually apply to this discussion.....

And again....it isn't the number but the reason Australian criminals...who get guns just like American criminals do......why do American thugs pull the trigger and commit murder more.

As was shown...we have 357,000,000 guns in this country...less than 8,124 were used to commit murder...

if gun access was what caused gun murder then you would have to have well over half the guns in the country used for murder......

8,124 out of 357,000,000 is nothing.....and of the 8,124 gun murders, the majority of them are violent criminals murdering other criminals...

And they kill each other in tiny areas of our major cities which are controlled by democrats.

The rest of the gun owning country is safe by the same standard as Europe and Australia.....

Australian criminals simply don't commit murder...

But that is changing......

Comparing apples to apples ...

69 homicides by firearms in Australia (the equivalent of 932 based on the size of the U.S. in comparison) over the 3 year period of 2010-2012.

One has to be dumber than shit to imply Australians are not safe from being killed by a firearm because one person was killed by one.

And for comparison purposes, over that same period, there were 26,382 homicides by firearm in the U.S.

Well...dumber than shit....that isn't what I am saying......try paying closer attention....my point is that criminals in Australia have easy access to guns....the stories I post show that even 15 year old immigrants to Australia and even older immigrants, get guns easily.

The difference between the United States and Australia is that the criminals in Australia do not commit murder as often, even though they have easy access to guns...

And the only reason they haven't had more mass shootings since the confiscation is that the shooters in various shootings have not decided to murder more people.

There were very few mass shootings in Australia before the confiscation...and now there are the same number after the confiscation.....and gun crime was not a major problem in Australia before the gun confiscation...and it is now becoming one after the confiscation.

What are you twits going to say as the gun crime rates in these countries with gun control continue to go up.....as they have in Britain and now Australia....?

And let me put this to you since your other anti gun nut posters refuse to answer this...

In 2012 there were 11.1 million Americans carrying guns for self defense...our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again.

in 2013 there were 12.8 million Americans carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again....

in 2014 there wer 13 million people carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again......

If access to guns means more violent crime and more gun murder...then why do our crime stats keep going down as more Americans carry guns for self defense and more Americans own guns....especially women and minorities?

And this is not about causation....that is another discussion...this is about the point of anti gun nuts who keep saying more guns will lead to more violence and more gun murder...when the truth, the facts and reality show otherwise.

Maybe you don't understand this, but it's what this thread is about. And it's simply not true because gun ownership in Australia has decreased since passing anti-gun laws in 1996. As have gun deaths; as have homicides by firearms.

And your claim that it's because they just choose to not murder is not based on anything tangible other than your own opinion. The reality is no one knows why the number of murders by firearms has dropped. There is no cause/causation to explain it.

 

[2aguy]

Gunman Kills Himself After Deadly Shooting... In Australia

BUT! BUT! Australia has anti gun laws! DAMN!

Dumb fucking argument...

Homicides by firearms, 2010-2012

Australia .......... 69
U.S. ........... 26,382

U.S. population approximately 13.5 times larger.

Actually, it is only 8,124 gun murders...the only ones that actually apply to this discussion.....

And again....it isn't the number but the reason Australian criminals...who get guns just like American criminals do......why do American thugs pull the trigger and commit murder more.

As was shown...we have 357,000,000 guns in this country...less than 8,124 were used to commit murder...

if gun access was what caused gun murder then you would have to have well over half the guns in the country used for murder......

8,124 out of 357,000,000 is nothing.....and of the 8,124 gun murders, the majority of them are violent criminals murdering other criminals...

And they kill each other in tiny areas of our major cities which are controlled by democrats.

The rest of the gun owning country is safe by the same standard as Europe and Australia.....

Australian criminals simply don't commit murder...

But that is changing......

Comparing apples to apples ...

69 homicides by firearms in Australia (the equivalent of 932 based on the size of the U.S. in comparison) over the 3 year period of 2010-2012.

One has to be dumber than shit to imply Australians are not safe from being killed by a firearm because one person was killed by one.

And for comparison purposes, over that same period, there were 26,382 homicides by firearm in the U.S.

Well...dumber than shit....that isn't what I am saying......try paying closer attention....my point is that criminals in Australia have easy access to guns....the stories I post show that even 15 year old immigrants to Australia and even older immigrants, get guns easily.

The difference between the United States and Australia is that the criminals in Australia do not commit murder as often, even though they have easy access to guns...

And the only reason they haven't had more mass shootings since the confiscation is that the shooters in various shootings have not decided to murder more people.

There were very few mass shootings in Australia before the confiscation...and now there are the same number after the confiscation.....and gun crime was not a major problem in Australia before the gun confiscation...and it is now becoming one after the confiscation.

What are you twits going to say as the gun crime rates in these countries with gun control continue to go up.....as they have in Britain and now Australia....?

And let me put this to you since your other anti gun nut posters refuse to answer this...

In 2012 there were 11.1 million Americans carrying guns for self defense...our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again.

in 2013 there were 12.8 million Americans carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again....

in 2014 there wer 13 million people carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again......

If access to guns means more violent crime and more gun murder...then why do our crime stats keep going down as more Americans carry guns for self defense and more Americans own guns....especially women and minorities?

And this is not about causation....that is another discussion...this is about the point of anti gun nuts who keep saying more guns will lead to more violence and more gun murder...when the truth, the facts and reality show otherwise.

Maybe you don't understand this, but it's what this thread is about. And it's simply not true because gun ownership in Australia has decreased since passing anti-gun laws in 1996. As have gun deaths; as have homicides by firearms.

And your claim that it's because they just choose to not murder is not based on anything tangible other than your own opinion. The reality is no one knows why the number of murders by firearms has dropped. There is no cause/causation to explain it.

Yes.....keep telling yourself that...

Spike in handgun crimes reveals nation’s secret problem | The New Daily

Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country’s underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade.

Previously unseen police statistics show that the number of pistol-related offences doubled in Victoria and rose by 300 per cent in New South Wales. At least two other states also saw a massive jump in firearms-related offences during the same period.



An investigation by The New Daily unearthed previously unpublished data for firearms offences collected from police and crime statistics agencies in four states – Victoria, NSW, South Australia and Tasmania.

The statistics detail the types of firearms offences police have pursued in the courts in the past decade and show some concerning findings, including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period.



Taken together, the data suggests that despite our tough anti-gun laws, thousands of weapons are either being stolen or entering the country illegally.

Associate Professor Philip Alpers, one of Australia’s leading firearms researchers and a director of the Centre for Armed Violence Reduction at the University of Sydney, said the national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns.

“The ban on semi-automatics created demand by criminals for other types of guns,” he said, adding: “The criminal’s gun of choice today is the semi-automatic pistol.”

 

[2aguy]

Gunman Kills Himself After Deadly Shooting... In Australia

BUT! BUT! Australia has anti gun laws! DAMN!

Dumb fucking argument...

Homicides by firearms, 2010-2012

Australia .......... 69
U.S. ........... 26,382

U.S. population approximately 13.5 times larger.

Actually, it is only 8,124 gun murders...the only ones that actually apply to this discussion.....

And again....it isn't the number but the reason Australian criminals...who get guns just like American criminals do......why do American thugs pull the trigger and commit murder more.

As was shown...we have 357,000,000 guns in this country...less than 8,124 were used to commit murder...

if gun access was what caused gun murder then you would have to have well over half the guns in the country used for murder......

8,124 out of 357,000,000 is nothing.....and of the 8,124 gun murders, the majority of them are violent criminals murdering other criminals...

And they kill each other in tiny areas of our major cities which are controlled by democrats.

The rest of the gun owning country is safe by the same standard as Europe and Australia.....

Australian criminals simply don't commit murder...

But that is changing......

Comparing apples to apples ...

69 homicides by firearms in Australia (the equivalent of 932 based on the size of the U.S. in comparison) over the 3 year period of 2010-2012.

One has to be dumber than shit to imply Australians are not safe from being killed by a firearm because one person was killed by one.

And for comparison purposes, over that same period, there were 26,382 homicides by firearm in the U.S.

Well...dumber than shit....that isn't what I am saying......try paying closer attention....my point is that criminals in Australia have easy access to guns....the stories I post show that even 15 year old immigrants to Australia and even older immigrants, get guns easily.

The difference between the United States and Australia is that the criminals in Australia do not commit murder as often, even though they have easy access to guns...

And the only reason they haven't had more mass shootings since the confiscation is that the shooters in various shootings have not decided to murder more people.

There were very few mass shootings in Australia before the confiscation...and now there are the same number after the confiscation.....and gun crime was not a major problem in Australia before the gun confiscation...and it is now becoming one after the confiscation.

What are you twits going to say as the gun crime rates in these countries with gun control continue to go up.....as they have in Britain and now Australia....?

And let me put this to you since your other anti gun nut posters refuse to answer this...

In 2012 there were 11.1 million Americans carrying guns for self defense...our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again.

in 2013 there were 12.8 million Americans carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again....

in 2014 there wer 13 million people carrying guns for self defense and our gun murder rate and our violent crime rate went down again......

If access to guns means more violent crime and more gun murder...then why do our crime stats keep going down as more Americans carry guns for self defense and more Americans own guns....especially women and minorities?

And this is not about causation....that is another discussion...this is about the point of anti gun nuts who keep saying more guns will lead to more violence and more gun murder...when the truth, the facts and reality show otherwise.

Maybe you don't understand this, but it's what this thread is about. And it's simply not true because gun ownership in Australia has decreased since passing anti-gun laws in 1996. As have gun deaths; as have homicides by firearms.

And your claim that it's because they just choose to not murder is not based on anything tangible other than your own opinion. The reality is no one knows why the number of murders by firearms has dropped. There is no cause/causation to explain it.

Yes....keep telling yourself that you aren't having a problem.........Australia is about where the United States was back in the 1950s going into the 60s.......very little crime...very little gun crime...then the middle 60s hit and we passed gun control and the violent crime rate spiked......

Our investigation found:

• NSW: in 2014-15, there were 3463 firearms charges, up 83 per cent on 2005-06

• Victoria: in 2014-15, there were 3645 firearms-related charges, up 85 per cent on 2005-06

• SA: in 2014, charges for possession and trafficking of guns are up 49 per cent on 2010-11

• Tasmania: in 2014, charges for unlawful gun possession were up 32 per cent on 2005-06

------------------

Although The New Daily has not been able to obtain data for Queensland and WA, the NSW statistics strongly suggest that the 12 months to the end of June 2011 was a turning point in the policing of Australia’s black market for firearms and ammunition.

In that year the charge count soared by almost 30 per cent in NSW, partly driven by a 61 per cent surge in charges for unauthorised possession of handguns. In the following year, the Victorian charge count also soared on the back of a 76 per cent blowout in ammunition-related charges.