GUNS must GO

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

My father, he had one of those old M-1 carbines, those Garands. yep, that is what he did, he had a gun to defend freedom. He was wounded, received a PURPLE HEART. A hero of the great war. Well he also had a heck of case of post traumatic stress syndrome. . Another victim of the great war , he ended up trying to shoot his son, a innocent pawn that tried to do the right thing, that hated the scourge of alcohol and the shithead his father became. His son, tried to help him in he only way he could. I never understood the old man in 1971. He almost shot my ass. Well, since then I almost (key word, ALMOST) got capped by mistaken figures TWICE and I don't have much love for the second Amendment crap anymore because it's just that, CRAP. It is crap. It is a delusion. plain pure and simple.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My father, he had one of those old M-1 carbines, those Garands. yep, that is what he did, he had a gun to defend freedom. He was wounded, received a PURPLE HEART. A hero of the great war. Well he also had a heck of case of post traumatic stress syndrome. . Another victim of the great war , he ended up trying to shoot his son, a innocent pawn that tried to do the right thing, that hated the scourge of alcohol and the shithead his father became. His son, tried to help him in he only way he could. I never understood the old man in 1971. He almost shot my ass. Well, since then I almost (key word, ALMOST) got capped by mistaken figures TWICE and I don't have much love for the second Amendment crap anymore because it's just that, CRAP. It is crap. It is a delusion. plain pure and simple.

So you're blaming the Second Amendment and its defenders because your family didn't take care of its business? It's OUR fault that you and/or your mother didn't get him some help, have him institutionalized, or at least take his fucking gun away? We've all got to face the thugs of the world unarmed because you can't handle your personal business?

Get some therapy and learn to stop projecting your guilt onto everyone else.

 

[Burp]

My father, he had one of those old M-1 carbines, those Garands. yep, that is what he did, he had a gun to defend freedom. He was wounded, received a PURPLE HEART. A hero of the great war. Well he also had a heck of case of post traumatic stress syndrome. . Another victim of the great war , he ended up trying to shoot his son, a innocent pawn that tried to do the right thing, that hated the scourge of alcohol and the shithead his father became. His son, tried to help him in he only way he could. I never understood the old man in 1971. He almost shot my ass. Well, since then I almost (key word, ALMOST) got capped by mistaken figures TWICE and I don't have much love for the second Amendment crap anymore because it's just that, CRAP. It is crap. It is a delusion. plain pure and simple.

I'm very sorry this happened.

I have to say though - the gun didn't do all this.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

You are MY family, BURP.

 

[pagankmck]

I didn't say WOULD ignore. I said CAN. Although I think your addition of "according to their standards" is very telling. You'll notice that none of us are flocking to live in those countries.

Standards are subjective. And many of those people aren't flocking to our country either. THe people who flock to our country are often doing so because of violence and oppression in their own countries.

Many of those people ARE flocking to our country, and not just because of violence and oppression (hey, how do you think THAT happens?). Some of them are just flocking here because of unparalleled freedom and opportunity.

I think my point about the 2nd Amendment being the guarantor of all of the others is that it doesn't really matter if the government will respect the other rights without the threat of an armed populace to defend them. What matters is that I don't want to have to count on the government to be benevolent, moral, and just in order to have my civil rights.

I work with Refugees and Immigrants on Crime Prevention issues. THe people who flock to this country are coming from areas of Oppression and violence, some come here for the economic oppurtunities, some come here because their families are here. Many of them come here against their will. Europeans (from western Europe), Canadians, Australians, Kiwis and others from first world countries are not flocking here. There are some coming over here. There are some of us going over there. Many of these countries have much stricter laws than we do. They are happy. Each to his own.

 

[pagankmck]

Have you,Cecile? What do you know about it? Please. Yes, I have, I don't have a problem with guns, just assholes. Too many of them get guns, and you just aren't getting your head around that concept. Now, try harder. I mean that , try harder.

You're an idiot if you think I'm going to believe you successfully negotiated with an armed thug who wanted your money or worse. The only "negotiation" you get there is, "Please, sir, take whatever you want", and we all know it, so don't try to bullshit.

And legal gun ownership isn't responsible for criminals getting guns, you dimwit. You think they're running down to the local guns and ammo shop and filling out the license forms before knocking over that convenience store or shooting that old lady for her purse? Wrap YOUR head around THIS concept: criminals don't observe the law. That's why we call them "criminals".

Now try harder. I mean that. Try fucking harder.

If someone tries to rob you you give them what they want. Unless you know what you are doing with a gun you are likely to hurt yourself. Travel light so you don't lose that much and then call the cops. It best to avoid the problem in the first place so if you know an area has problems don't go there, at least not by yourself.

And by the way I have had a gun pointed at me. I was backing my car out of parking spot. At the time I had a 1973 Chevy Caprice. A very big car. It moved slowly. As I was moving the car out of the spot I blocked another car driving very quickly down the street I lived on. A woman jumped out of the car pointed a gun at me and said move "your fucking car". I moved my car. But I got the license plate and I called the cops. Hell, even the drug dealers who lived next door to me thought I should call the cops and gave me the name of the woman. THe cops came and impounded the car. Unfortunately, the cops did not arrest the woman who pointed the gun at me. They didn't provide me with an incident number. I contacted the Community Police Team office in my neighborhood and she could not track the case down.

 

[Burp]

You are MY family, BURP.

Sorry, I'm pretty quick and all, but you lost me on this one.

 

[Agnapostate]

I see we've decided to focus on anecdotal speculation rather than empirical evidence. So be it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Have you,Cecile? What do you know about it? Please. Yes, I have, I don't have a problem with guns, just assholes. Too many of them get guns, and you just aren't getting your head around that concept. Now, try harder. I mean that , try harder.

You're an idiot if you think I'm going to believe you successfully negotiated with an armed thug who wanted your money or worse. The only "negotiation" you get there is, "Please, sir, take whatever you want", and we all know it, so don't try to bullshit.

And legal gun ownership isn't responsible for criminals getting guns, you dimwit. You think they're running down to the local guns and ammo shop and filling out the license forms before knocking over that convenience store or shooting that old lady for her purse? Wrap YOUR head around THIS concept: criminals don't observe the law. That's why we call them "criminals".

Now try harder. I mean that. Try fucking harder.

If someone tries to rob you you give them what they want. Unless you know what you are doing with a gun you are likely to hurt yourself. Travel light so you don't lose that much and then call the cops. It best to avoid the problem in the first place so if you know an area has problems don't go there, at least not by yourself.

And by the way I have had a gun pointed at me. I was backing my car out of parking spot. At the time I had a 1973 Chevy Caprice. A very big car. It moved slowly. As I was moving the car out of the spot I blocked another car driving very quickly down the street I lived on. A woman jumped out of the car pointed a gun at me and said move "your fucking car". I moved my car. But I got the license plate and I called the cops. Hell, even the drug dealers who lived next door to me thought I should call the cops and gave me the name of the woman. THe cops came and impounded the car. Unfortunately, the cops did not arrest the woman who pointed the gun at me. They didn't provide me with an incident number. I contacted the Community Police Team office in my neighborhood and she could not track the case down.

Why in the hell would anyone own a gun and not know what they're doing with it? That's like buying a stove and not bothering to figure out what the little knobs do.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Peganmack. I wish you well. But a gun didn't help you then and sure as shit won't help anyone now. Side note. Why is it all these wonderful Conservatives side with gun toting criminals, because of the 2ND amendment ? Criminals like the second amendment too. They depend on all those loud mouthed Conservatives to support them. You guys like gun toting criminals THAT much? it seems that way .

 

[Burp]

Peganmack. I wish you well. But a gun didn't help you then and sure as shit won't help anyone now. Side note. Why is it all these wonderful Conservatives side with gun toting criminals, because of the 2ND amendment ? Criminals like the second amendment too. They depend on all those loud mouthed Conservatives to support them. You guys like gun toting criminals THAT much? it seems that way .

You missed it on this one.

The criminals will always have guns.

The pro-gun people just want to equal the playing field - legally.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Peganmack. I wish you well. But a gun didn't help you then and sure as shit won't help anyone now. Side note. Why is it all these wonderful Conservatives side with gun toting criminals, because of the 2ND amendment ? Criminals like the second amendment too. They depend on all those loud mouthed Conservatives to support them. You guys like gun toting criminals THAT much? it seems that way .

Who's siding with criminals, you ignorant schmuck? We believe in the right to bear arms to COMBAT criminals. No one here has supported the right of criminals to own guns, you putz. And criminals don't depend on conservatives to "support" them, because they aren't paying attention to gun control laws, anyway. They are actually depending on LIBERALS to support them by taking guns out of the hands of their potential victims so they can't fight back.

Get some frigging help and quit blaming everyone else because your father was a nut and you let him get away with it. That's YOUR issue, not ours, and this is NOT your group therapy session. Stop spewing on us.

 

[pagankmck]

You're an idiot if you think I'm going to believe you successfully negotiated with an armed thug who wanted your money or worse. The only "negotiation" you get there is, "Please, sir, take whatever you want", and we all know it, so don't try to bullshit.

And legal gun ownership isn't responsible for criminals getting guns, you dimwit. You think they're running down to the local guns and ammo shop and filling out the license forms before knocking over that convenience store or shooting that old lady for her purse? Wrap YOUR head around THIS concept: criminals don't observe the law. That's why we call them "criminals".

Now try harder. I mean that. Try fucking harder.

If someone tries to rob you you give them what they want. Unless you know what you are doing with a gun you are likely to hurt yourself. Travel light so you don't lose that much and then call the cops. It best to avoid the problem in the first place so if you know an area has problems don't go there, at least not by yourself.

And by the way I have had a gun pointed at me. I was backing my car out of parking spot. At the time I had a 1973 Chevy Caprice. A very big car. It moved slowly. As I was moving the car out of the spot I blocked another car driving very quickly down the street I lived on. A woman jumped out of the car pointed a gun at me and said move "your fucking car". I moved my car. But I got the license plate and I called the cops. Hell, even the drug dealers who lived next door to me thought I should call the cops and gave me the name of the woman. THe cops came and impounded the car. Unfortunately, the cops did not arrest the woman who pointed the gun at me. They didn't provide me with an incident number. I contacted the Community Police Team office in my neighborhood and she could not track the case down.

Why in the hell would anyone own a gun and not know what they're doing with it? That's like buying a stove and not bothering to figure out what the little knobs do.

That is a good question. But they do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Have you,Cecile? What do you know about it? Please. Yes, I have, I don't have a problem with guns, just assholes. Too many of them get guns, and you just aren't getting your head around that concept. Now, try harder. I mean that , try harder.

You're an idiot if you think I'm going to believe you successfully negotiated with an armed thug who wanted your money or worse. The only "negotiation" you get there is, "Please, sir, take whatever you want", and we all know it, so don't try to bullshit.

And legal gun ownership isn't responsible for criminals getting guns, you dimwit. You think they're running down to the local guns and ammo shop and filling out the license forms before knocking over that convenience store or shooting that old lady for her purse? Wrap YOUR head around THIS concept: criminals don't observe the law. That's why we call them "criminals".

Now try harder. I mean that. Try fucking harder.

If someone tries to rob you you give them what they want. Unless you know what you are doing with a gun you are likely to hurt yourself. Travel light so you don't lose that much and then call the cops. It best to avoid the problem in the first place so if you know an area has problems don't go there, at least not by yourself.

And by the way I have had a gun pointed at me. I was backing my car out of parking spot. At the time I had a 1973 Chevy Caprice. A very big car. It moved slowly. As I was moving the car out of the spot I blocked another car driving very quickly down the street I lived on. A woman jumped out of the car pointed a gun at me and said move "your fucking car". I moved my car. But I got the license plate and I called the cops. Hell, even the drug dealers who lived next door to me thought I should call the cops and gave me the name of the woman. THe cops came and impounded the car. Unfortunately, the cops did not arrest the woman who pointed the gun at me. They didn't provide me with an incident number. I contacted the Community Police Team office in my neighborhood and she could not track the case down.

Oh, by the way. As a woman, the thing that armed thug might want to steal from me may be something I'm not willing to "give him and then call the cops", all right? So you'll excuse me if I choose to fight back instead of being a victim.

 

[pagankmck]

Peganmack. I wish you well. But a gun didn't help you then and sure as shit won't help anyone now. Side note. Why is it all these wonderful Conservatives side with gun toting criminals, because of the 2ND amendment ? Criminals like the second amendment too. They depend on all those loud mouthed Conservatives to support them. You guys like gun toting criminals THAT much? it seems that way .

I never claimed a gun did help me. But, in my line of work, I have dealt with a lot of situations with the potential of violence and I have dealt with the aftermath of violent action. I will repeat, if someone points a gun at you the best thing to do is give them what they want and carry as little of value with you as possible.

Conservatives do not take the side of gun toting criminals. They just do not think that the solution to dealing with crimes involving crime is solved by outlawing guns. THat is not my concern. My concern is a Constitutional one. The Constitution protects gun ownership. The recent Supreme court on gun ownership in DC ruling solidifies this position.

Where I get frustrated with Conservatives is the fact that they don't seem to have a problem with Bush's Warrantless wiretaps, another clear violation of the Constitution.

 

[pagankmck]

You're an idiot if you think I'm going to believe you successfully negotiated with an armed thug who wanted your money or worse. The only "negotiation" you get there is, "Please, sir, take whatever you want", and we all know it, so don't try to bullshit.

And legal gun ownership isn't responsible for criminals getting guns, you dimwit. You think they're running down to the local guns and ammo shop and filling out the license forms before knocking over that convenience store or shooting that old lady for her purse? Wrap YOUR head around THIS concept: criminals don't observe the law. That's why we call them "criminals".

Now try harder. I mean that. Try fucking harder.

If someone tries to rob you you give them what they want. Unless you know what you are doing with a gun you are likely to hurt yourself. Travel light so you don't lose that much and then call the cops. It best to avoid the problem in the first place so if you know an area has problems don't go there, at least not by yourself.

And by the way I have had a gun pointed at me. I was backing my car out of parking spot. At the time I had a 1973 Chevy Caprice. A very big car. It moved slowly. As I was moving the car out of the spot I blocked another car driving very quickly down the street I lived on. A woman jumped out of the car pointed a gun at me and said move "your fucking car". I moved my car. But I got the license plate and I called the cops. Hell, even the drug dealers who lived next door to me thought I should call the cops and gave me the name of the woman. THe cops came and impounded the car. Unfortunately, the cops did not arrest the woman who pointed the gun at me. They didn't provide me with an incident number. I contacted the Community Police Team office in my neighborhood and she could not track the case down.

Oh, by the way. As a woman, the thing that armed thug might want to steal from me may be something I'm not willing to "give him and then call the cops", all right? So you'll excuse me if I choose to fight back instead of being a victim.

As a woman, I can understand your concern. But if you don't know what you are doing, that gun may be taken from you. Have you ever been in a position of pointing a gun at someone?

I do a lot of personal safety trainings. If someone comes after you we often tell people to make a lot of noise. We also tell people if they are going to use personal safety devices train with them. Many women carry pepper spray. When they have been accosted they tried to use the pepper spray and it has been taken from them or the wind has blown the spray back into their face.

 

[Agnapostate]

Oh, by the way. As a woman, the thing that armed thug might want to steal from me may be something I'm not willing to "give him and then call the cops", all right? So you'll excuse me if I choose to fight back instead of being a victim.

O RLY? Let's see what Felson and Krohn have to say about that in Motives for Rape.

We develop a socio-sexual model and a punishment model of rape, borrowing from the theoretical literature on other forms of violence. Preliminary tests of these models are performed using victimization data from the National Crime Survey. In support of the socio-sexual model, younger women are more likely to be raped than older women during a robbery, suggesting a preference for younger women even when opportunity is controlled. In addition, nonstrategic violence is less likely during rapes involving younger offenders and victims, suggesting that these crimes are more likely to be sexually motivated. There is also evidence for the punishment model: Injury is more likely when the offender and victim are an estranged couple, suggesting that some men use rape and violence during rape to punish the victim for some grievance. Further, in contrast to robbery, offenders with weapons are more likely to injure victims, suggesting the nonstrategic use of violence.

Try again, dear.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

I want guns out of the hands of criminals. You ? Who is the schmuck here? Guns are immaterial. It's about something else.Apparently, some of you don't , cant or won't ever get it. I don't pity you. It's easier to cast aspersions than to use a gun .Apparently, some of you don't , cant or won't ever get it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If someone tries to rob you you give them what they want. Unless you know what you are doing with a gun you are likely to hurt yourself. Travel light so you don't lose that much and then call the cops. It best to avoid the problem in the first place so if you know an area has problems don't go there, at least not by yourself.

And by the way I have had a gun pointed at me. I was backing my car out of parking spot. At the time I had a 1973 Chevy Caprice. A very big car. It moved slowly. As I was moving the car out of the spot I blocked another car driving very quickly down the street I lived on. A woman jumped out of the car pointed a gun at me and said move "your fucking car". I moved my car. But I got the license plate and I called the cops. Hell, even the drug dealers who lived next door to me thought I should call the cops and gave me the name of the woman. THe cops came and impounded the car. Unfortunately, the cops did not arrest the woman who pointed the gun at me. They didn't provide me with an incident number. I contacted the Community Police Team office in my neighborhood and she could not track the case down.

Why in the hell would anyone own a gun and not know what they're doing with it? That's like buying a stove and not bothering to figure out what the little knobs do.

That is a good question. But they do.

Really? Prove that this is even vaguely widespread or remotely common, please.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If someone tries to rob you you give them what they want. Unless you know what you are doing with a gun you are likely to hurt yourself. Travel light so you don't lose that much and then call the cops. It best to avoid the problem in the first place so if you know an area has problems don't go there, at least not by yourself.

And by the way I have had a gun pointed at me. I was backing my car out of parking spot. At the time I had a 1973 Chevy Caprice. A very big car. It moved slowly. As I was moving the car out of the spot I blocked another car driving very quickly down the street I lived on. A woman jumped out of the car pointed a gun at me and said move "your fucking car". I moved my car. But I got the license plate and I called the cops. Hell, even the drug dealers who lived next door to me thought I should call the cops and gave me the name of the woman. THe cops came and impounded the car. Unfortunately, the cops did not arrest the woman who pointed the gun at me. They didn't provide me with an incident number. I contacted the Community Police Team office in my neighborhood and she could not track the case down.

Oh, by the way. As a woman, the thing that armed thug might want to steal from me may be something I'm not willing to "give him and then call the cops", all right? So you'll excuse me if I choose to fight back instead of being a victim.

As a woman, I can understand your concern. But if you don't know what you are doing, that gun may be taken from you. Have you ever been in a position of pointing a gun at someone?

I do a lot of personal safety trainings. If someone comes after you we often tell people to make a lot of noise. We also tell people if they are going to use personal safety devices train with them. Many women carry pepper spray. When they have been accosted they tried to use the pepper spray and it has been taken from them or the wind has blown the spray back into their face.

The nice thing about a gun is that the bullet doesn't blow back in your face. And you are far more likely to come out of the situation successfully than you are to have your gun taken from you. Guns are used millions of times every year in this country to foil crimes, usually without even firing them. By contrast, it is quite rare for a potential victim who is armed to be disarmed and have his own weapon used against him.

I'll stick with the odds, thanks. And I prefer to go with defending myself, rather than relying on someone else to rescue me via "making lots of noise".