GUNS must GO

[pagankmck]

Looking at your numbers...I would say that having a firearms has paid off for the civilians. I sure am glad that we have the 2nd Amendment to protect our rights. The criminals will always have the guns.
FYI...The second Amendment was set up for civilians to defend themselves from no other than our own government. Our founding Fathers were far smarter than anyone in government today. They had the insight to foresee what the capablities of what our government could do in the future.

I would not come to that conclusion about those numbers. Out of all of the shootings that occured in 2004, only 170 of them were justifiable homocides (The 229 reflects all justifiable homicides by any means). I don't think that number supports the notion that guns will keep you safe.


I did not include the number of accidental shootings or suicides. Which can be found with a little work. There are many people who have guns who do not know what to do with them or how to handle them, or how to secure them. Those people should either learn what to do with those guns or get rid of them. People bent on committing suicide will do it one way or the other. They need professional mental health assistance to deal with their depression.

As a crime prevention specialist, I do not buy the argument that guns make good crime prevention. It is better to look towards things like Crime Prevention therough Environmental Design and Risk and protective factors that lead to crime. Getting old is also a good way of preventing crime. As people get older they are less likely to commit a crime.

However, I do not buy the notion that we should ban guns, either. It's in the Constitution. Parts of the Constitution should not be ignored. I do not think that there is support for repealing the 2nd amendment.

I grew up in a home with guns in it. My father is a charter member of the NRA. My brother is a lifetime member of the NRA. I don't understand their fascination with guns. But it doesn't frighten me either.

I really could care less what your conclusion is with those numbers, Pagen. I really don't care what you think of my conclusion is either. There were 170 civilians saved by the gun.
I just wonder how many crimes were diverted because of the possiblity have a civilian having a gun??? Hard to put a number on it. But, the NRA magazine used to show numbers that reflected that specific topic.

The NRA is not an objective source, anymore than the Anti-gun violence folks are. They both have axes to grind.

 

[pagankmck]

Guns are designed to KILL. Why would anyone want to own a gun and NOT use it for its designed purpose?

My father who owns many guns, hunts. Well that is killing. But he also enjoys target practice. He has never shot another person.

Do you have a problem with hunting? Are you a vegetarian? Do you have a problem with going out on a range for target practice?

 

[Cecilie1200]

According to the Center for Disease Control 28, 685 people died due to firearm violence in 2004, throughout the USA. Of those deaths 229 were justifiable homicides by armed civilians (fire arms and other weapons) according to the FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2004. (page 24 of the PDF). If you only count firearms that number is 170. Of that number 139 of the guns were handguns, 14 rifles, 7 shotguns, 10 unspecified firearms.

You are more likely to suffer violence from someone you know. And as a woman you are statistically more likely to be killed by your husband or boyfriend then by a stranger. YOu are also more likely to be raped by an acquaintance then by a stranger.

Young Men between the ages of 15 to 25 are most likely to be victims of crime. They are also most likely to be the perpetrators of crime.

Looking at your numbers...I would say that having a firearms has paid off for the civilians. I sure am glad that we have the 2nd Amendment to protect our rights. The criminals will always have the guns.
FYI...The second Amendment was set up for civilians to defend themselves from no other than our own government. Our founding Fathers were far smarter than anyone in government today. They had the insight to foresee what the capablities of what our government could do in the future.

I would not come to that conclusion about those numbers. Out of all of the shootings that occured in 2004, only 170 of them were justifiable homocides (The 229 reflects all justifiable homicides by any means). I don't think that number supports the notion that guns will keep you safe.

Of course you don't, because you keep deliberately ignoring the fact that MOST times that a gun is used to prevent a crime, the gun isn't discharged at all. I think this is the third time you've avoided addressing that, which tells me you're dishonest.

I did not include the number of accidental shootings or suicides. Which can be found with a little work.

Why would you?

There are many people who have guns who do not know what to do with them or how to handle them, or how to secure them. Those people should either learn what to do with those guns or get rid of them. People bent on committing suicide will do it one way or the other. They need professional mental health assistance to deal with their depression.

I believe I asked you earlier to prove that this is any kind of significant problem, and I'm pretty sure I didn't mean "ignore it for a couple of posts, and then simply restate it as established fact without an iota of substantiation" when I did. So either cough it up, or stop bringing it up.

As a crime prevention specialist, I do not buy the argument that guns make good crime prevention.

I wasn't selling it. I was citing facts, which you apparently can only "refute" by saying, "Well, I'm an expert, and I don't agree." That and five bucks'll buy you a cup of coffee.

It is better to look towards things like Crime Prevention therough Environmental Design and Risk and protective factors that lead to crime. Getting old is also a good way of preventing crime. As people get older they are less likely to commit a crime.

Better based on what? And oh, hey. I just LOVE your advice of "Just survive longer, and your odds of survival will go up." That's the pithiest piece of utterly useless, bullshit advice I have ever been given in my life. You might as well tell me that the secret to a long life is not dying.

However, I do not buy the notion that we should ban guns, either. It's in the Constitution. Parts of the Constitution should not be ignored. I do not think that there is support for repealing the 2nd amendment.

Well, how generous of you, particularly since you have squat in the way of evidence that they aren't useful.

I grew up in a home with guns in it. My father is a charter member of the NRA. My brother is a lifetime member of the NRA. I don't understand their fascination with guns. But it doesn't frighten me either.

Didn't ask, don't care, I'll call you when I feel the urge to write your biography.

 

[Yukon]

Pagan,

No problem with hunting or target shooting at all. I have a problem with PISTOLS !

 

[Cecilie1200]

Guns are designed to KILL. Why would anyone want to own a gun and NOT use it for its designed purpose?

Maybe that's why you keep finding targets painted on your t-shirts. But hey, can't blame your mother for trying.

 

[Burp]

Pagan,

No problem with hunting or target shooting at all. I have a problem with PISTOLS !

Show me numbers that indicate how many deaths have been caused by pistols.

 

[Otter_Creek]

Pagan,

No problem with hunting or target shooting at all. I have a problem with PISTOLS !

Most of the (I lost count) wild hogs I've shot on our land were shot with a pistol.
Dozens of poisonous snakes have been removed too, so my grandchildren have a safe place to play and learn.

Any more stupid things you'd like to spew?

 

[pagankmck]

Pagan,

No problem with hunting or target shooting at all. I have a problem with PISTOLS !

Most of the (I lost count) wild hogs I've shot on our land were shot with a pistol.
Dozens of poisonous snakes have been removed too, so my grandchildren have a safe place to play and learn.

Any more stupid things you'd like to spew?

People, often target shoot with pistols. And I think some people view pistols (as well as other fire arms) as art (the shape the form the history)

Speaking of hogs, I am hungry, I am off to get food before I respond to the rest of the posts.

 

[Otter_Creek]

Pagan,

No problem with hunting or target shooting at all. I have a problem with PISTOLS !

Most of the (I lost count) wild hogs I've shot on our land were shot with a pistol.
Dozens of poisonous snakes have been removed too, so my grandchildren have a safe place to play and learn.

Any more stupid things you'd like to spew?

People, often target shoot with pistols. And I think some people view pistols (as well as other fire arms) as art (the shape the form the history)

Speaking of hogs, I am hungry, I am off to get food before I respond to the rest of the posts.

Yes, Target shooting is a lot of fun. IMO more people should take a safety class and give it a try.
We used to target shoot here a lot, then the kids grew up and left me no shooting buddys, Except my wife and she just practices each year before she has to re-qualify for her work.
Got a while to go before the grandkids will be old enough to shoot.

 

[necritan]

You are such a sweet talker Cecille. You guys are really ....amazing. Truly. You read what ever you want into my posts, don't you? Ever consider that.. (shock) I am perhaps just like you? So, if you would, please answer my question instead of insulting. HAVE YOU ever used a firearm to defend yourself? Skip the crap, please. Answer the bloody question if you have an ounce of integrity. Yes, or no, no bullshit.

I'm just curious. What difference does it make if she has or hasn't?

There are many people who have? Old Rocks for one.

I know people who have. I personally haven't and hope I never have to. But I have a permit and carry in case I have to.

I don't see what different it makes as it pertains to the discussion.

I did not have to pull the trigger, but had the safety off, and was aimed. Had I not had the shotgun, I do not believe I would be alive today. I am a gun owner, but this thing of putting guns on pedestals is getting to me. We should have some strong laws to keep guns out of the hands of lunatics. That we have ineffective laws and enforcement is obvious, given the five slaughters that we have seen in less than a month.

As stated, I am a gun owner, but those that oppose any kind of controls on who owns guns are creating a situation where the majority of the American People may well decide that my right to responsible gun ownership is more of a danger to them than gun control laws.

How do you establish who is a friggin lunatic or criminal?? If their background check pops up as them being a felonious violent criminal....one has to ask themself..."Has the justice system fucked me??" .

Why are known criminals allowed to walk amongst us??? That is the real problem.

 

[necritan]

Where I get frustrated with Conservatives is the fact that they don't seem to have a problem with Bush's Warrantless wiretaps, another clear violation of the Constitution.

Real conservatives do have a problem with that. Neo-cons don't.

 

[necritan]

Pagan,

No problem with hunting or target shooting at all. I have a problem with PISTOLS !

What if I want to hunt with a MP-5???

 

[necritan]

Pagan,

No problem with hunting or target shooting at all. I have a problem with PISTOLS !

Show me numbers that indicate how many deaths have been caused by pistols.

Handguns are the leading firearms related killer in the USA.....and for good reason too. They are easily concealable...they are effective in close quarters...and they operate well in a retention situation as well.

I love handguns.....

 

[necritan]

My father, he had one of those old M-1 carbines, those Garands.

Maybe your Dad hated the hell outta you cuzz you couldn't remember what his "Rifle" was called.

And maybe you were some kind of an un-appreciative little bitch that couldnt possibly fathom the level of pain he dealt with on a daily basis , remembering all the people he killed protecting your rights...including the 2nd amendment.

It was probably a Garand....invented by a man born in Quebec...(that should piss off Yukon)..

It went on to be the most important single weapon ever to enter WWII.....it is argueably the best battle rifle ever made. It saved many of our soldiers...including your Dad...and went on to help us defeat our enemies in WWII....especially the Germans. Yes....the Germans...the same guys that systematically disarmed groups of folks right before slaughtering the hell out of them.

The M-1 Carbine was a completely different rifle.

The right of the people to bear arms far shadows your weenie little childhood.....

Are we so advanced in the last 60 years??? The whole world was ablaze just a few years ago...and you dare to say that is done and gone with. History has a hell of a way of repeating itself....

We can only remain civilized if everyone is granted the power to protect themselves via lethal force. This is equality. The government must be kept at bay.

If people are sooooo sick of criminals getting guns....then maybe we should stop letting the pricks out of prison.

 

[BrianH]

Guns are designed to KILL. Why would anyone want to own a gun and NOT use it for its designed purpose?

Sure, but you can kill a deer for food. So you're right.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

You can kill a deer for food. Yes, there's a thought. Yep, all those supermarkets, all this abundance of food, we gotta trek out into into the wilderness and shoot Bambi instead. That's a powerful argument for guns. I have bullet lodged in my garage, another in my roof. Now, I doubt the numb nuts that put them there even have the slightest idea what the fudge the constitution is, let alone the second amendment. But, they got firearms, though. I like guns. I don't like people that much, especially all you intelligent ones that rationalize being irrational, plus we get all that nifty gun porn. You guys are intelligent, I must say. And particularly adept at self delusion. But as far as the second amendment goes, it's a antique and we don't need firearms anymore, this isn't the frontier and the redcoats are LONG gone.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Nectarian: my dear old pop fought in WWII and was wounded, he got a honorable discharge and received a a purple heart. His brother, My Uncle, was killed in the pacific. I understand we need to arm ourselves against foreign threats, but domestically, the criminals have firearms and I don't think arming EVERYONE is going to stop crime. I wish it was that simple. I think of Bernard Madof, he stole billions with nothing more than pen or the click of a mouse. Guns don't stop criminal like that, do they?

 

[BrianH]

You can kill a deer for food. Yes, there's a thought. Yep, all those supermarkets, all this abundance of food, we gotta trek out into into the wilderness and shoot Bambi instead. That's a powerful argument for guns. I have bullet lodged in my garage, another in my roof. Now, I doubt the numb nuts that put them there even have the slightest idea what the fudge the constitution is, let alone the second amendment. But, they got firearms, though. I like guns. I don't like people that much, especially all you intelligent ones that rationalize being irrational, plus we get all that nifty gun porn. You guys are intelligent, I must say. And particularly adept at self delusion. But as far as the second amendment goes, it's a antique and we don't need firearms anymore, this isn't the frontier and the redcoats are LONG gone.

Bambi?? Really? You think all the deer are named Bambi? You must be a city boy.

As far as a bullet lodged in your garage, it's a good thing the asshole that fired the gun didn't come into your house and "lodge" the bullet into your chest, or into a member of your family. We'll see how you feel about "not needing guns" when someone threatens your life in your home.

I use my guns for recreational shooting mostly. I hunt and target shoot every now and then. I have do have a firearm for personal protection, but thankfully, I've never had to use it.

The fact is, banning guns will not work. Banning drugs has not worked. Criminal will acquire firearms whether they are banned or not.

 

[FoxDog]

Yes and how about i wait in line for twenty years waiting in line for a kidney even while i have enough money for the procedure and a doner i cant cus i have to wait in line eh? fuck you
besides your not even looking into why Second Ammendment was put in so that the people could control the goverment or do you want to live in china? your an ignorant ass that doesnt know what the meaning of the idea of "long term" is, so if you want to deal with all these violent crimes start a war or maybe simply promote a better cultural atmosphere with more respect for echother not take away another right k?

 

[Seraega]

Why are known criminals allowed to walk amongst us??? That is the real problem.

Actually, the real problem is that we pretend criminals "do their time", but in reality folks like you will never let them be forgiven and go on to build a normal life. We have the highest prison population in the WORLD. We should really be taking a look at the Japanese penal system... could learn a few things.

Gun ownership should be a right of all legal citizens. There should be no standing before some government official for a pistol permit, or concealed carry. That's a violation of our rights.