GUNS must GO

[KittenKoder]

Burp: Banning guns is BAD? Dude? The cockles of my heart are not exactly warming, ethier. Banning guns might stop all that " Pop pop pop". I'm willing to give a try any way. You?

It has been tried, and it failed miserably.

 

[Burp]

Burp: Banning guns is BAD? Dude? The cockles of my heart are not exactly warming, ethier. Banning guns might stop all that " Pop pop pop". I'm willing to give a try any way. You?

It has been tried, and it failed miserably.

Thanks KK...you beat me to it.

Banning guns is not the answer.

I wonder. If this was asked of you before, I apologize - I missed the answer.

Since you live in such a bad part of town, do you have any weapons in your house to protect yourself?

 

[Father Time]

Burp: Banning guns is BAD? Dude? The cockles of my heart are not exactly warming, ethier. Banning guns might stop all that " Pop pop pop". I'm willing to give a try any way. You?

I'm never in favor of taking away people's freedoms in order to find out if taking away those same freedoms will help people.

Rights should not be given away at the whims of people wanting to conduct experiments. I prefer people having real hard data before I even consider it.

There were people who tried to ban the sale of violent games to kids however they've failed repeatedly to prove they're harmful to kids and thus their bills and laws were thrown out. Why should guns be any different?

Oh and I also believe in both cases that taking away the rights of everyone just because some people are criminals or have mental problems is wrong.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Firearms, guns and second Amendment rights. Who would argue that? I would. After thirty years or so, so will you. After all the abuses. And no saving graces. I could have been blown away, I grabbed the gun away and chose NOT to use it. I am not a statistic, I am a real breathing human being. Too bad that isn't a new kind of political party. We might amount to something. I grabbed a gun right out of the hands of someone that was a decent human being to, too bad he was to far gone by then from booze and the affects of a war most of you forgot before you were born.

I understand your statement.

I must counter one thing though. And you have heard it before. Had you not grabbed the gun away, the PERSON may have pulled the trigger and blown you away. The weapon would not have shot itself.

Yes. I agree. It may have been too easy for him to get the gun. I will agree there.

But for your story, there are many where the gun saved someone. Or even, the gun was never fired in self defense. But was there just in case.

I know this sounds cruel, but SW2's tearjerking little personal anecdote really amounts to the fact that he and his family couldn't handle their personal family problem and take care of business, so he wants everyone else to surrender their right to self-protection to make up for his lack of ability to deal.

The problem isn't that the Second Amendment gives too much freedom and access. It's that there are too many people like SW2 who can't handle freedom on a personal level, and need the government to step in and take care of their problems for them.

Saying so may make me a coldhearted bitch, but it's still the truth and needs to be said.

 

[Burp]

Firearms, guns and second Amendment rights. Who would argue that? I would. After thirty years or so, so will you. After all the abuses. And no saving graces. I could have been blown away, I grabbed the gun away and chose NOT to use it. I am not a statistic, I am a real breathing human being. Too bad that isn't a new kind of political party. We might amount to something. I grabbed a gun right out of the hands of someone that was a decent human being to, too bad he was to far gone by then from booze and the affects of a war most of you forgot before you were born.

I understand your statement.

I must counter one thing though. And you have heard it before. Had you not grabbed the gun away, the PERSON may have pulled the trigger and blown you away. The weapon would not have shot itself.

Yes. I agree. It may have been too easy for him to get the gun. I will agree there.

But for your story, there are many where the gun saved someone. Or even, the gun was never fired in self defense. But was there just in case.

I know this sounds cruel, but SW2's tearjerking little personal anecdote really amounts to the fact that he and his family couldn't handle their personal family problem and take care of business, so he wants everyone else to surrender their right to self-protection to make up for his lack of ability to deal.

The problem isn't that the Second Amendment gives too much freedom and access. It's that there are too many people like SW2 who can't handle freedom on a personal level, and need the government to step in and take care of their problems for them.

Saying so may make me a coldhearted bitch, but it's still the truth and needs to be said.

 

[necritan]

Firearms, guns and second Amendment rights. Who would argue that? I would. After thirty years or so, so will you. After all the abuses. And no saving graces. I could have been blown away, I grabbed the gun away and chose NOT to use it. I am not a statistic, I am a real breathing human being. Too bad that isn't a new kind of political party. We might amount to something. I grabbed a gun right out of the hands of someone that was a decent human being to, too bad he was to far gone by then from booze and the affects of a war most of you forgot before you were born.

Sounds like the boozed up man was the problem....not the gun. Sounds like someone is painting a big ole picture with a tiny little brush. Sounds like someone thinks their little life is somehow bigger than the (IMO) most important right in the Bill of Rights.

 

[Gunny]

Burp: Banning guns is BAD? Dude? The cockles of my heart are not exactly warming, ethier. Banning guns might stop all that " Pop pop pop". I'm willing to give a try any way. You?

Naive and illogical.

 

[KittenKoder]

Burp: Banning guns is BAD? Dude? The cockles of my heart are not exactly warming, ethier. Banning guns might stop all that " Pop pop pop". I'm willing to give a try any way. You?

Naive and illogical.

After a while I gave up on expecting logic from the people who want guns banned ... seems to have escaped them at this point.

 

[Father Time]

Burp: Banning guns is BAD? Dude? The cockles of my heart are not exactly warming, ethier. Banning guns might stop all that " Pop pop pop". I'm willing to give a try any way. You?

Naive and illogical.

After a while I gave up on expecting logic from the people who want guns banned ... seems to have escaped them at this point.

I used to be on their side until I read a thread on a different site where people debated the same thing. I was convinced by someone on the anti gun-control crowd. So yeah, they're not entirely hopeless.

 

[KittenKoder]

Naive and illogical.

After a while I gave up on expecting logic from the people who want guns banned ... seems to have escaped them at this point.

I used to be on their side until I read a thread on a different site where people debated the same thing. I was convinced by someone on the anti gun-control crowd. So yeah, they're not entirely hopeless.

I stand corrected, some are though, you must admit.

 

[Father Time]

After a while I gave up on expecting logic from the people who want guns banned ... seems to have escaped them at this point.

I used to be on their side until I read a thread on a different site where people debated the same thing. I was convinced by someone on the anti gun-control crowd. So yeah, they're not entirely hopeless.

I stand corrected, some are though, you must admit.

No doubt but the same can be said for every issue I'd imagine.

 

[KittenKoder]

Hmm ... triple stabbing just happened here ... should we ban all sharp objects now?

 

[krotchdog]

It's time that Americans woke up, smelled the coffee and too their collective heads out of the sad. Be smart, be modern, wake up and REPEAL the 2ND AMENDMENT

The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths (murders, suicides and accidents) among the world's 36 richest nations!!

* 2,827 children and teens died as a result of gun violence in 2003 (more than the number of American fighting men killed in hostile action in Iraq from 2003 to April 2006)

Americans value their constitution and the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment deals with the right to bear arms. Here is the price that ordinary Americans are paying for the privilege

* 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns

* since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century

* Osama bin Laden would need at least nine twin towers like attacks each year to equal what Americans do to themselves every year with guns.

* Murder rates in LA, NY and Chigago were approaching the hightest in the world (30 per 100,000) until moves were made in late 20th century to restrict access to guns to teenagers and the NRA wants these moves reversed.

If Osama bin Laden had had more sense, instead of launching a terrorist attack, he would simply have provided financial backing to the NRA!

Without the United States and its guns, there would be no canada. We protect canada.

Without our guns rates of crime sky rocket, the recent surge of deadly crime in Canada is evidence of this fact.

More children and teens were saved by guns than killed by guns. If more parents carried guns these number would be lower.

A child a die, saved by guns

More than 50 million dead in WW II, please do not believe all Canadians are morons.

Osama is not threatened by morons in Canada

Murder rates are out of control in Canada, all people murdered who did not own guns could of saved thier life if they owned a gun.

On a real serious note, I wish more women had conceal carry permits, I wish we heard stories like "woman kills would be rapist",

Its time to get tough on crime, its time for women to protect themselves, the police cant. In 90% of all rapes no weapon is involved, police prevent less than .01 percent of all rape, men simply are stronger than women.

So, please, go buy guns all you women, save yourself, if not for you for your children. Men are the lousy people, we commit most crime, much simply because we are stronger.

By a gun, shoot a rapist, save your life.

 

[3mmartin]

Even at this early phase Im not surprised. Not a single one of you has been able to lodge a logical protest to my post. Sarcasm is the best you can do.

1) Obviously, a lot of people die due to violence, the weapon of choice being guns. Men killed each other over Money, Drugs, family, Religion, Philosophy and everything else under the sun long before guns came along. Removing guns would not stop the violence, it would simply take a different form.

2) Out lawing guns doesn't stop criminals from getting guns. The majority of gun related deaths are in drug wars, and they get legal and illegal guns as easily as they get legal and illegal drugs. Most of the deaths you oppose will continue.

3) Countries who make guns illegal have higher rates of crime (UK) Criminals know the populace is unarmed so they steal and maim and kill at will. Armed citizens thwart many crimes in the US every year.

4) The problem is not the tools and resources available to men, the problem is that people desire to and decide to kill. Once they decide to kill, man is resourceful, he will find the means.

Man kills because he wants to kill, because he doesn't believe that he will ultimately be held accountable. He thinks he can get away with it, because he either doesn't believe in God, or He doesn't believe God will punish him for killing:

"You have heard it said, to Love your friend, and hate your enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemy, and bless those who persecute you, for if you love only those who love you, what reward is in that? Even scoundrels love those who love them. No, love your enemies, and then you will be like your Father in Heaven..."

Spoken by Jesus Christ in the Sermon on the Mount.
God Bless you!

 

[3mmartin]

Conseravtaives are a lot like Mullahs. In fact they are a lot like Islamic fundamentalists. Both groups believe in strict adherance to a religious philosophy and both groups wnat their specific beliefs imposed on everyone. Live and let live is not in the Islamic or Conservative vocabulary. How sad.........

You want Guns to be banned, and you want that specific idea to be posed on everyone. Yukon, anyone who proposes anything to be made law is proposing to have his specific belief imposed on everyone.

Your philosophy tells you "Guns are bad, ban them" What is the difference between religion and philosophy? Your "Philosophy" is another name for "Religion" or "Belief system"

Get a clue dude, your ideas are not inherently superiour just because they are not "Religious"

 

[Father Time]

It's time that Americans woke up, smelled the coffee and too their collective heads out of the sad. Be smart, be modern, wake up and REPEAL the 2ND AMENDMENT

The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths (murders, suicides and accidents) among the world's 36 richest nations!!

* 2,827 children and teens died as a result of gun violence in 2003 (more than the number of American fighting men killed in hostile action in Iraq from 2003 to April 2006)

Americans value their constitution and the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment deals with the right to bear arms. Here is the price that ordinary Americans are paying for the privilege

* 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns

* since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century

* Osama bin Laden would need at least nine twin towers like attacks each year to equal what Americans do to themselves every year with guns.

* Murder rates in LA, NY and Chigago were approaching the hightest in the world (30 per 100,000) until moves were made in late 20th century to restrict access to guns to teenagers and the NRA wants these moves reversed.

If Osama bin Laden had had more sense, instead of launching a terrorist attack, he would simply have provided financial backing to the NRA!

Without the United States and its guns, there would be no canada. We protect canada.

Without our guns rates of crime sky rocket, the recent surge of deadly crime in Canada is evidence of this fact.

As much as I hate gun control a simple correlation doesn't prove cause and effect.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's time that Americans woke up, smelled the coffee and too their collective heads out of the sad. Be smart, be modern, wake up and REPEAL the 2ND AMENDMENT

The United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths (murders, suicides and accidents) among the world's 36 richest nations!!

* 2,827 children and teens died as a result of gun violence in 2003 (more than the number of American fighting men killed in hostile action in Iraq from 2003 to April 2006)

Americans value their constitution and the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment deals with the right to bear arms. Here is the price that ordinary Americans are paying for the privilege

* 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns

* since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century

* Osama bin Laden would need at least nine twin towers like attacks each year to equal what Americans do to themselves every year with guns.

* Murder rates in LA, NY and Chigago were approaching the hightest in the world (30 per 100,000) until moves were made in late 20th century to restrict access to guns to teenagers and the NRA wants these moves reversed.

If Osama bin Laden had had more sense, instead of launching a terrorist attack, he would simply have provided financial backing to the NRA!

Without the United States and its guns, there would be no canada. We protect canada.

Without our guns rates of crime sky rocket, the recent surge of deadly crime in Canada is evidence of this fact.

As much as I hate gun control a simple correlation doesn't prove cause and effect.

It's not just a simple correlation. Among other things, criminals themselves will tell you that the more likely it is that a potential victim will be armed and able to fight back, the more likely they are to turn their attention to a "cold" crime, aka one without a victim present, like property crimes. In fact, the same crime stats that show a decrease of violent crime every time concealed-carry laws are implemented shows a corresponding increase in property crime. And common sense should tell you as much. Criminals may be more reckless than the general population - as are cops, by the way - but there's no reason to believe they're any more suicidal than other people, or lacking in self-preservation instincts.

Aside from the anecdotal evidence provided by interviewing criminals, we have more research to go on than merely a correlation between the advent of broader gun ownership and a decrease in violent crime. There is research that suggests that criminals actually move out of an area when concealed-carry laws come into effect, which would certainly contribute to a drop in crime. And there are, in fact, reams of detailed studies that suggest that in this case, correlation IS because of causation.

 

[Dr Grump]

This has probably been said before, but I dont have time to read every post right now.

Here are some statistics from Australia after they banned guns and took them away from their citizens:

# Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;

# Assaults are up 8.6 percent;

# Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent;

# In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent;

# In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily;

# There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

In response to the first post:

1. Right now in America way more people are dying from being fat. Being fat is the 2nd biggest cause of preventable death.

2. Accidents happen. You will never keep people from killing themselves or hurting themselves.

3. There will always be another thing that will cause accidents and kill people.

4. Bad guys will ALWAYS get guns. ALWAYS. Good guys need to protect themselves.

5. The 2nd amendment is crucial to our freedom. The United States is a Republic, a nation ruled by law, governed by the people. If the guns are taken away, it is no longer a nation governed by the people. The 2nd Amendment states: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The founding fathers understood that people, keeping and bearing arms, was crucial to keeping the states free. Free from terrorists, free from other countries, and also free from our own government, to keep it from abusing its powers.

6. A nation in which the citizens are unarmed are vulnerable to anything and everything. The citizens are no longer free, they are slaves. Nothing to stop opposing countries from invading, thieves from breaking into your home, or your government from taking away your rights.

If Osama bin Laden had more sense, he would have given everyone lifetime supplies of McDonalds gift certificates.

You stats have nothing to do with the gun situation in Australia. Where did you get your stats from BTW?

 

[Yukon]

The stats posted re. Australia are from the NRA.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

WOW. Pro-gun folks: You fine people have turned self delusion into an art form. This board is at about 47 pages, and growing . So much anger and defensiveness, so much hostility, makes me nervous that you folks see yourselves as the ones that are rational and need firearms. I need some reassurance, not a bunch of tired sophistic crap. I am not kidding myself here, I know I can't change your mind, and as far as the "facts" go, I'm sure were ever you dredge up these "facts" you can also prove the earth is flat. The only persons that NEED weapons are either military or law enforcement officers. Nice try though. The second amendment is a relic of bygone times, and it should be either repealed or changed to reflect the technology and the changes in morals in American culture. In my opinion . That's pretty scary to some of you. Now, imagine society were the bad guys don't have firearms, then you guys couldn't indulge in this self-reinforcing argument that we need guns to protect ourselves from other people with guns. Oh, no we can't simplify the issue, we have to obfuscate everything with overcomplicated logic. Or, then hide behind the flag, mom and apple pie and that sacrosanct antique, the second amendment. Sorry, but that is how t looks to me.