Has science proved there is no God?

[Boss]

I say unless you have some evidence of this "creator" then cough it up.

Logic.

There is your evidence we were created!

Regardless of what you may believe the source of creation to be... 1) We exist. 2) We did not create ourselves.

Now, if you come up with a physically scientific way to prove how physical nature created itself, you can present the evidence and I'll be happy to take a look. So far, there has been nothing that I am aware of. Logic says things can't create themselves, it's a paradox... if they could create themselves, then they already existed.

Just because somethings hard to believe doesnt make it not true.

You should remember this when contemplating the possibility of God.

Everything always existed in one form or another.

Regardless. Unless you have more evidence for a god heaven and hell please stfu.

Everything always existed in one form or another.

That's a nice, albeit "spiritual" thought. Nature and science seem to be throwing up some roadblocks to your theory. Perpetual motion defies the laws of thermodynamics, it's not physically possible. The universe is in motion. Again, logic dictates that Newton is correct and things are in motion because something set them in motion. The other thing is entropy, and we've been over this before as well. Things naturally decline from order to chaos. Obviously, entropy cannot be eternal and infinite. So we have a problem reconciling the concept of eternity and infinity with a physical universe.

A spiritual one? Perhaps!

 

[Boss]

There's no reason to accept your presumption of gawds as the fine tuners of anything. There is nothing find tuned about the universe.

We're left with nothing more than your notoriously vacant minded "because I say so" nonsense

Fuck off with your empty-headed, filibustering trollery.

 

[Hollie]

I say unless you have some evidence of this "creator" then cough it up.

Logic.

There is your evidence we were created!

Regardless of what you may believe the source of creation to be... 1) We exist. 2) We did not create ourselves.

Now, if you come up with a physically scientific way to prove how physical nature created itself, you can present the evidence and I'll be happy to take a look. So far, there has been nothing that I am aware of. Logic says things can't create themselves, it's a paradox... if they could create themselves, then they already existed.

Just because somethings hard to believe doesnt make it not true.

You should remember this when contemplating the possibility of God.

Everything always existed in one form or another.

Regardless. Unless you have more evidence for a god heaven and hell please stfu.

Everything always existed in one form or another.

That's a nice, albeit "spiritual" thought. Nature and science seem to be throwing up some roadblocks to your theory. Perpetual motion defies the laws of thermodynamics, it's not physically possible. The universe is in motion. Again, logic dictates that Newton is correct and things are in motion because something set them in motion. The other thing is entropy, and we've been over this before as well. Things naturally decline from order to chaos. Obviously, entropy cannot be eternal and infinite. So we have a problem reconciling the concept of eternity and infinity with a physical universe.

A spiritual one? Perhaps!

The problem with your spirit realms is that they presume an acceptance of magic, supernaturalism and partisan gawds.

 

[Hollie]

There's no reason to accept your presumption of gawds as the fine tuners of anything. There is nothing find tuned about the universe.

We're left with nothing more than your notoriously vacant minded "because I say so" nonsense

Fuck off with your empty-headed, filibustering trollery.

Do you pray to the gawds with that mouth?

 

[Boss]

The problem with your spirit realms is that they presume an acceptance of magic, supernaturalism and partisan gawds.

Well, no... My comprehension of spiritual nature is completely natural and I've explained how it's part of nature. It may seem like "magic" to you but that's because you don't know the trick.

It's actually YOU who doesn't have a rational explanation and believes in magic or supernatural things to explain the universe.

And actually, I am going to call you out here... I think you ARE a person who believes in spirituality AND God! There is not another more rational explanation for your obsessive nature regarding this subject. You totally believe in God, you're just fucking angry at God. Something has happened in your life which you blame God for...what is that, Hollie? What do you think God did to warrant your wrath?

 

[Hollie]

The problem with your spirit realms is that they presume an acceptance of magic, supernaturalism and partisan gawds.

Well, no... My comprehension of spiritual nature is completely natural and I've explained how it's part of nature. It may seem like "magic" to you but that's because you don't know the trick.

It's actually YOU who doesn't have a rational explanation and believes in magic or supernatural things to explain the universe.

And actually, I am going to call you out here... I think you ARE a person who believes in spirituality AND God! There is not another more rational explanation for your obsessive nature regarding this subject. You totally believe in God, you're just fucking angry at God. Something has happened in your life which you blame God for...what is that, Hollie? What do you think God did to warrant your wrath?

Your paranoia is causing you to become a danger to yourself and others.

I just find you to be stereotypical for religious zealots in that your bellicose claims to magical gawds, spirit realms and supernaturalism is utterly unsupported yet you recoil in juvenile fits when your baseless claims are challenged.

 

[sealybobo]

Oop

Preacher tells the woman with woes to cope with her woes not change her circumstances. Dont worry about your shitty life lady. One day you'll be in heaven.

Just accept your shitty life.

Religion keeps slaves from revolting.

1) coping with your woes is not mutually exclusive with changing your circumstances, in fact most would deem it synonymous.....I'm sure I can find an atheist as stupid as whatever preacher you knew who gave that bad advice.....
2) in our actual history religion worked to end slavery......not sure what fantasy reality you were thinking of........

be that as it may you told Boss to live life.....assuming he wasn't a slave think about revolting or a woman trying to cope with her woes, I doubt that was what you were referring to.......what WERE you referring to?.......

Arrestive development song called fishin for religion. Listen to it.

so in other words....after reflection you are unable to think of a single thing that lets you 'live life' more fully than a believer?......neither could I.......

I jack off without fear of hell for thinking about you.

????.....you jack off thinking about me and you think your life is better?.....I was thinking of Jennifer Lawrence......

Oops! Thought you were a girl.

 

[sealybobo]

It i

And all he's really saying is that "something" must have made all this. That it seems irrational that this all happened by chance.

Not that it "seems" irrational... it IS irrational. .

If I took you out to a golf course and showed you my golf ball sitting on the one blade of grass dyed pink on the whole course (fairway of the 4th hole) and told you that I hit exactly that blade when I teed off from the 4th hole, would you say it was irrational to say it happened by chance?

First of all, I totally don't understand your analogy. The odds of a randomly created universe with the fine tuning in evidence is enormous. Much greater than the odds in your analogy, or any analogy your mind can imagine. Let's try to put your analogy in proper perspective.. your golf course is the entire universe, your golf ball is the size of an atom. On each of your 18 "holes" you swing your cosmic golf club and hit a hole in one! You come back for the next three days and have the same dumb luck. If ANY of your swings resulted in something other than a hole in one, the universe can't exist. Did I mention you are also blindfolded and have no knowledge of where the hole is?

So... rationally explain how such luck is possible, plausible, or anything other than irrational? Please explain how a rational mind can believe there is nothing but random chance responsible?

It is What it is.

What is it you say could have made the universe not exist? You aren't talking about life on earth you're talking about the entire universe not existing? Please explain.

 

[sealybobo]

And all he's really saying is that "something" must have made all this. That it seems irrational that this all happened by chance.

Not that it "seems" irrational... it IS irrational. .

If I took you out to a golf course and showed you my golf ball sitting on the one blade of grass dyed pink on the whole course (fairway of the 4th hole) and told you that I hit exactly that blade when I teed off from the 4th hole, would you say it was irrational to say it happened by chance?

First of all, I totally don't understand your analogy. The odds of a randomly created universe with the fine tuning in evidence is enormous. Much greater than the odds in your analogy, or any analogy your mind can imagine. Let's try to put your analogy in proper perspective.. your golf course is the entire universe, your golf ball is the size of an atom. On each of your 18 "holes" you swing your cosmic golf club and hit a hole in one! You come back for the next three days and have the same dumb luck. If ANY of your swings resulted in something other than a hole in one, the universe can't exist. Did I mention you are also blindfolded and have no knowledge of where the hole is?

So... rationally explain how such luck is possible, plausible, or anything other than irrational? Please explain how a rational mind can believe there is nothing but random chance responsible?

There's no reason to accept your presumption of gawds as the fine tuners of anything. There is nothing find tuned about the universe.

We're left with nothing more than your notoriously vacant minded "because I say so" nonsense

He already admitted this god never visited anyone except himself.

Boss has the most generic gawd ever. He can't even join a real religion because none of them believe what he believes. But that's OK because they all believe in "something" greater than self.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Oop

1) coping with your woes is not mutually exclusive with changing your circumstances, in fact most would deem it synonymous.....I'm sure I can find an atheist as stupid as whatever preacher you knew who gave that bad advice.....
2) in our actual history religion worked to end slavery......not sure what fantasy reality you were thinking of........

be that as it may you told Boss to live life.....assuming he wasn't a slave think about revolting or a woman trying to cope with her woes, I doubt that was what you were referring to.......what WERE you referring to?.......

Arrestive development song called fishin for religion. Listen to it.

so in other words....after reflection you are unable to think of a single thing that lets you 'live life' more fully than a believer?......neither could I.......

I jack off without fear of hell for thinking about you.

????.....you jack off thinking about me and you think your life is better?.....I was thinking of Jennifer Lawrence......

Oops! Thought you were a girl.

thats okay..its not the first time you've been a fucking idiot......

 

[Boss]

It is What it is.

What is it you say could have made the universe not exist? You aren't talking about life on earth you're talking about the entire universe not existing? Please explain.

A stable physical material environment is not possible without the gravitational constant, for one. If that constant was off by just a smidge, nothing material can exist because the atoms which comprise material things cannot exist. A stable and precise gravitational constant is like a balance, it can't be off and still be right. Now, we simply do not know or have any explanation for what set this constant of our universe, but whatever it was had to be amazingly precise or the universe doesn't exist as we know it... meaning, in a 'physical' state.

Carbon-based life forms cannot exist if there is no carbon atom in or universe. You will agree that is correct, right? Carbon is the result of nuclear fission in stars, formed by intense heat after the universe first formed. The early stars are massive and short-lived. They consume their hydrogen, helium and lithium and produce heavier elements. When these stars die with a bang they spread the elements of life, carbon and oxygen, throughout the universe. New stars condense and new planets form from these heavier elements. The stage is set for life to begin.

Your "eternal universe" theory fails because if it were true, we wouldn't be able to carbon date anything. Time becomes irrelevant. There is no explanation for Darwinian evolution. There is no explanation for the motion of the expanding universe. There is no explanation for violating the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. It's actually a very child-like viewpoint with no basis in science whatsoever. The universe had a beginning and will have an end.

 

[Hollie]

It is What it is.

What is it you say could have made the universe not exist? You aren't talking about life on earth you're talking about the entire universe not existing? Please explain.

A stable physical material environment is not possible without the gravitational constant, for one. If that constant was off by just a smidge, nothing material can exist because the atoms which comprise material things cannot exist. A stable and precise gravitational constant is like a balance, it can't be off and still be right. Now, we simply do not know or have any explanation for what set this constant of our universe, but whatever it was had to be amazingly precise or the universe doesn't exist as we know it... meaning, in a 'physical' state.

Carbon-based life forms cannot exist if there is no carbon atom in or universe. You will agree that is correct, right? Carbon is the result of nuclear fission in stars, formed by intense heat after the universe first formed. The early stars are massive and short-lived. They consume their hydrogen, helium and lithium and produce heavier elements. When these stars die with a bang they spread the elements of life, carbon and oxygen, throughout the universe. New stars condense and new planets form from these heavier elements. The stage is set for life to begin.

Your "eternal universe" theory fails because if it were true, we wouldn't be able to carbon date anything. Time becomes irrelevant. There is no explanation for Darwinian evolution. There is no explanation for the motion of the expanding universe. There is no explanation for violating the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. It's actually a very child-like viewpoint with no basis in science whatsoever. The universe had a beginning and will have an end.

Bossy is rattling on again with his ICR branded version of a "finely tuned universe".

The universe had a beginning and will have an end....."because I say so".

 

[Boss]

He already admitted this god never visited anyone except himself.

Boss has the most generic gawd ever. He can't even join a real religion because none of them believe what he believes. But that's OK because they all believe in "something" greater than self.

You should really give up trying to mock me to Hollie, you keep failing miserably at what I have said... basically getting it completely wrong every time.

I've never said God "visits" me or anyone else. God is omnipresent. You know what omnipresent means, if you're not an illiterate moron. So... how does something that is always there, "visit" me? Doesn't make logical sense, does it?

I can join any religious I please... at least for now. Who knows what godless liberals have planned for the New America? Maybe we should all genuflect toward Hilary to tell us what we're allowed to believe?

I don't belong to any organized religion because I don't agree with their dogma. I think it is all the creation of man and inherently flawed, so I can't put my faith in it. I can only go by what I know personally, and that is... there IS a spiritual nature! I connect with it all the time! It's there all the time! It helps me through times of turmoil or chaos, it gives me strength I don't have otherwise, it gives me courage I couldn't manage on my own, it inspires me and helps me aspire. I'm not really concerned with the fact that you don't apparently comprehend it, that you haven't found a way to connect with it, or that you don't believe it's "real." I find it hilariously fascinating that you and people like Hollie think that I am somehow obligated to have to "prove" this to YOU! I don't have to do any such thing.

 

[Hollie]

He already admitted this god never visited anyone except himself.

Boss has the most generic gawd ever. He can't even join a real religion because none of them believe what he believes. But that's OK because they all believe in "something" greater than self.

You should really give up trying to mock me to Hollie, you keep failing miserably at what I have said... basically getting it completely wrong every time.

I've never said God "visits" me or anyone else. God is omnipresent. You know what omnipresent means, if you're not an illiterate moron. So... how does something that is always there, "visit" me? Doesn't make logical sense, does it?

I can join any religious I please... at least for now. Who knows what godless liberals have planned for the New America? Maybe we should all genuflect toward Hilary to tell us what we're allowed to believe?

I don't belong to any organized religion because I don't agree with their dogma. I think it is all the creation of man and inherently flawed, so I can't put my faith in it. I can only go by what I know personally, and that is... there IS a spiritual nature! I connect with it all the time! It's there all the time! It helps me through times of turmoil or chaos, it gives me strength I don't have otherwise, it gives me courage I couldn't manage on my own, it inspires me and helps me aspire. I'm not really concerned with the fact that you don't apparently comprehend it, that you haven't found a way to connect with it, or that you don't believe it's "real." I find it hilariously fascinating that you and people like Hollie think that I am somehow obligated to have to "prove" this to YOU! I don't have to do any such thing.

Alternately, I find it hilarious that you insist your spirit realms, daily communications with the invented gawds of your spirit realms and your invention of some spirit nature which you demand others accept with nothing more than your "because I say so", nonsense. Yet, you hurl obscenities, whine like a spoiled child and stomp your feet when others challenge your fantasy world.

 

[sealybobo]

It is What it is.

What is it you say could have made the universe not exist? You aren't talking about life on earth you're talking about the entire universe not existing? Please explain.

A stable physical material environment is not possible without the gravitational constant, for one. If that constant was off by just a smidge, nothing material can exist because the atoms which comprise material things cannot exist. A stable and precise gravitational constant is like a balance, it can't be off and still be right. Now, we simply do not know or have any explanation for what set this constant of our universe, but whatever it was had to be amazingly precise or the universe doesn't exist as we know it... meaning, in a 'physical' state.

Carbon-based life forms cannot exist if there is no carbon atom in or universe. You will agree that is correct, right? Carbon is the result of nuclear fission in stars, formed by intense heat after the universe first formed. The early stars are massive and short-lived. They consume their hydrogen, helium and lithium and produce heavier elements. When these stars die with a bang they spread the elements of life, carbon and oxygen, throughout the universe. New stars condense and new planets form from these heavier elements. The stage is set for life to begin.

Your "eternal universe" theory fails because if it were true, we wouldn't be able to carbon date anything. Time becomes irrelevant. There is no explanation for Darwinian evolution. There is no explanation for the motion of the expanding universe. There is no explanation for violating the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. It's actually a very child-like viewpoint with no basis in science whatsoever. The universe had a beginning and will have an end.

Sur our planet star and the entire universe had a beginning but what was before our beginning. Perhaps the cosmos is like a lava lamp but one bubble lasts 20 billion years.

And this all sounds good but how again does it prove a god?

 

[sealybobo]

He already admitted this god never visited anyone except himself.

Boss has the most generic gawd ever. He can't even join a real religion because none of them believe what he believes. But that's OK because they all believe in "something" greater than self.

You should really give up trying to mock me to Hollie, you keep failing miserably at what I have said... basically getting it completely wrong every time.

I've never said God "visits" me or anyone else. God is omnipresent. You know what omnipresent means, if you're not an illiterate moron. So... how does something that is always there, "visit" me? Doesn't make logical sense, does it?

I can join any religious I please... at least for now. Who knows what godless liberals have planned for the New America? Maybe we should all genuflect toward Hilary to tell us what we're allowed to believe?

I don't belong to any organized religion because I don't agree with their dogma. I think it is all the creation of man and inherently flawed, so I can't put my faith in it. I can only go by what I know personally, and that is... there IS a spiritual nature! I connect with it all the time! It's there all the time! It helps me through times of turmoil or chaos, it gives me strength I don't have otherwise, it gives me courage I couldn't manage on my own, it inspires me and helps me aspire. I'm not really concerned with the fact that you don't apparently comprehend it, that you haven't found a way to connect with it, or that you don't believe it's "real." I find it hilariously fascinating that you and people like Hollie think that I am somehow obligated to have to "prove" this to YOU! I don't have to do any such thing.

No you dont. In fact if you are looking for members you're doing a horrible job. Lol. Just remember I would have 100% agreed with you before I decided there probably is no god. I swear it. I'm just anti religion. Not anti people like you. I just think "religion" is made up corrupt and used on people not for them. So the first thing they need to realize everything their bigot hypocrite preachers imams clerics pastors rabbis preast minister are telling stories.

I go after people who tell others they'll go to hell for not believing or a president who might go to war with Iran for isreal because god told us to.

 

[Boss]

It is What it is.

What is it you say could have made the universe not exist? You aren't talking about life on earth you're talking about the entire universe not existing? Please explain.

A stable physical material environment is not possible without the gravitational constant, for one. If that constant was off by just a smidge, nothing material can exist because the atoms which comprise material things cannot exist. A stable and precise gravitational constant is like a balance, it can't be off and still be right. Now, we simply do not know or have any explanation for what set this constant of our universe, but whatever it was had to be amazingly precise or the universe doesn't exist as we know it... meaning, in a 'physical' state.

Carbon-based life forms cannot exist if there is no carbon atom in or universe. You will agree that is correct, right? Carbon is the result of nuclear fission in stars, formed by intense heat after the universe first formed. The early stars are massive and short-lived. They consume their hydrogen, helium and lithium and produce heavier elements. When these stars die with a bang they spread the elements of life, carbon and oxygen, throughout the universe. New stars condense and new planets form from these heavier elements. The stage is set for life to begin.

Your "eternal universe" theory fails because if it were true, we wouldn't be able to carbon date anything. Time becomes irrelevant. There is no explanation for Darwinian evolution. There is no explanation for the motion of the expanding universe. There is no explanation for violating the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. It's actually a very child-like viewpoint with no basis in science whatsoever. The universe had a beginning and will have an end.

Sur our planet star and the entire universe had a beginning but what was before our beginning. Perhaps the cosmos is like a lava lamp but one bubble lasts 20 billion years.

And this all sounds good but how again does it prove a god?

Why do you keep thinking someone has claimed they can prove God?

Why does this line of thinking continue to persist after all the conversation we've had about it? These threads go on for days... weeks... months... years... in every single one, no one is claiming scientific proof of God. We all admit that we can't prove God with physical science at this time.

What do we need to do? How many times and how many ways do you want it to be said? How long does it take for this to penetrate your granite-like skull? Is there some admirable wisdom to winning an argument that isn't being made? I really don't get why, after all this time and all these many threads, you still believe that someone is actually trying to claim they can prove God exists-- to you, someone who is determined not to believe it.

There is a big difference between "proving God exists" and showing clear physical evidence that human spiritual nature exists. But I can't help but to think you've somehow morphed both of these into the same monolith. You're unable, or have difficulty discerning the difference between human spiritual connection and man-made religions. It doesn't seem to matter how much time I spend sorting this out for you and explaining the difference, it just goes right in one ear and out the other.

All you seem to be able to imagine are religious incarnations of God and you presume all these must be false so God must also be false. However, tens of thousands of years before man ever had the idea to organize spiritual thought and form a thing called "religion" man was behaving spiritually. This predates religion, so why do you have trouble understanding the difference?

 

[sealybobo]

It is What it is.

What is it you say could have made the universe not exist? You aren't talking about life on earth you're talking about the entire universe not existing? Please explain.

A stable physical material environment is not possible without the gravitational constant, for one. If that constant was off by just a smidge, nothing material can exist because the atoms which comprise material things cannot exist. A stable and precise gravitational constant is like a balance, it can't be off and still be right. Now, we simply do not know or have any explanation for what set this constant of our universe, but whatever it was had to be amazingly precise or the universe doesn't exist as we know it... meaning, in a 'physical' state.

Carbon-based life forms cannot exist if there is no carbon atom in or universe. You will agree that is correct, right? Carbon is the result of nuclear fission in stars, formed by intense heat after the universe first formed. The early stars are massive and short-lived. They consume their hydrogen, helium and lithium and produce heavier elements. When these stars die with a bang they spread the elements of life, carbon and oxygen, throughout the universe. New stars condense and new planets form from these heavier elements. The stage is set for life to begin.

Your "eternal universe" theory fails because if it were true, we wouldn't be able to carbon date anything. Time becomes irrelevant. There is no explanation for Darwinian evolution. There is no explanation for the motion of the expanding universe. There is no explanation for violating the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. It's actually a very child-like viewpoint with no basis in science whatsoever. The universe had a beginning and will have an end.

Sur our planet star and the entire universe had a beginning but what was before our beginning. Perhaps the cosmos is like a lava lamp but one bubble lasts 20 billion years.

And this all sounds good but how again does it prove a god?

Why do you keep thinking someone has claimed they can prove God?

Why does this line of thinking continue to persist after all the conversation we've had about it? These threads go on for days... weeks... months... years... in every single one, no one is claiming scientific proof of God. We all admit that we can't prove God with physical science at this time.

What do we need to do? How many times and how many ways do you want it to be said? How long does it take for this to penetrate your granite-like skull? Is there some admirable wisdom to winning an argument that isn't being made? I really don't get why, after all this time and all these many threads, you still believe that someone is actually trying to claim they can prove God exists-- to you, someone who is determined not to believe it.

There is a big difference between "proving God exists" and showing clear physical evidence that human spiritual nature exists. But I can't help but to think you've somehow morphed both of these into the same monolith. You're unable, or have difficulty discerning the difference between human spiritual connection and man-made religions. It doesn't seem to matter how much time I spend sorting this out for you and explaining the difference, it just goes right in one ear and out the other.

All you seem to be able to imagine are religious incarnations of God and you presume all these must be false so God must also be false. However, tens of thousands of years before man ever had the idea to organize spiritual thought and form a thing called "religion" man was behaving spiritually. This predates religion, so why do you have trouble understanding the difference?

OK. I dont like how people worship enterpret manipulate translate and misinterpret this "belief" or spirituality.

You're going to hell. Bothers me so much. I just listen to you and people like you debate athiests and athiests always win. And theists never make your arguments why?

 

[Boss]

OK. I dont like how people worship enterpret manipulate translate and misinterpret this "belief" or spirituality.

You're going to hell. Bothers me so much. I just listen to you and people like you debate athiests and athiests always win. And theists never make your arguments why?

Who told you the world operates on the basis of what you personally like or dislike? I don't like when people shit on the beliefs of others and disrespect their rights to their opinions.

Why would people saying you're going to hell bother you? You don't believe in hell, remember? The only reason I can imagine why it would bother you is that you wonder if they might be correct.

Funny... I've been arguing with atheists for years, theists too, for that matter... I've never known of anyone who has "won" the argument over whether God exists. In this particular thread, I've made numerous scientific observations which suggest humans make a metaphysical connection with something beyond the physical. We call this "spirituality" and it has been present in our species for as long as we have a history. The only thing I am seeing to counter my arguments are you, Hollie and a few assorted others, interjecting snipes and denigration of religion. You're not presenting anything scientific to refute my arguments, it's all emotive bleating and ad homs. Yet, somehow in YOUR head, this translates to the atheists "winning" the argument?

Anytime you get ready, present your scientific evidence there is no God! I'm waiting for it! I welcome the opportunity to evaluate your evidence and scrutinize your findings. What it seems to be is, you want to take a bunch of false assumptions, mix in some baseless opinions and unfounded speculations, and pretend this is actual science speaking. I call you out on this blatant error in objectivity and you respond by calling me names and ridiculing me personally.

As for theists making my arguments, thanks for confirming they don't... please inform Hollie of this because she claims I am parrotting religious fundies. I can't speak for theists or theology in general, only for human spirituality. The only value religions have in MY argument is they are evidence humans make a serious and profound spiritual connection to something greater than self. That doesn't mean religions are right or wrong, just that they are spiritually inspired.

This isn't the greatest analogy, but it kind of makes the point... Alchemy... Were people WRONG to explore it? It's inspired by Science as well as spiritualism, and is actually the 'birth pangs' of Chemistry. Now, we can look back and say they were wrong about many of the presumptions they made, many of the things they thought... but their heart was in the right place. I think much the same could be said for organized religion.. it's sort of like the alchemy of spirituality.

Perhaps some day Science will open a new chapter on exploring "Spiritology" and we'll look back on the days of Religion as we do the days of Alchemy? Man grappling with understanding that which he doesn't know.

 

[sealybobo]

OK. I dont like how people worship enterpret manipulate translate and misinterpret this "belief" or spirituality.

You're going to hell. Bothers me so much. I just listen to you and people like you debate athiests and athiests always win. And theists never make your arguments why?

Who told you the world operates on the basis of what you personally like or dislike? I don't like when people shit on the beliefs of others and disrespect their rights to their opinions.

Why would people saying you're going to hell bother you? You don't believe in hell, remember? The only reason I can imagine why it would bother you is that you wonder if they might be correct.

Funny... I've been arguing with atheists for years, theists too, for that matter... I've never known of anyone who has "won" the argument over whether God exists. In this particular thread, I've made numerous scientific observations which suggest humans make a metaphysical connection with something beyond the physical. We call this "spirituality" and it has been present in our species for as long as we have a history. The only thing I am seeing to counter my arguments are you, Hollie and a few assorted others, interjecting snipes and denigration of religion. You're not presenting anything scientific to refute my arguments, it's all emotive bleating and ad homs. Yet, somehow in YOUR head, this translates to the atheists "winning" the argument?

Anytime you get ready, present your scientific evidence there is no God! I'm waiting for it! I welcome the opportunity to evaluate your evidence and scrutinize your findings. What it seems to be is, you want to take a bunch of false assumptions, mix in some baseless opinions and unfounded speculations, and pretend this is actual science speaking. I call you out on this blatant error in objectivity and you respond by calling me names and ridiculing me personally.

As for theists making my arguments, thanks for confirming they don't... please inform Hollie of this because she claims I am parrotting religious fundies. I can't speak for theists or theology in general, only for human spirituality. The only value religions have in MY argument is they are evidence humans make a serious and profound spiritual connection to something greater than self. That doesn't mean religions are right or wrong, just that they are spiritually inspired.

This isn't the greatest analogy, but it kind of makes the point... Alchemy... Were people WRONG to explore it? It's inspired by Science as well as spiritualism, and is actually the 'birth pangs' of Chemistry. Now, we can look back and say they were wrong about many of the presumptions they made, many of the things they thought... but their heart was in the right place. I think much the same could be said for organized religion.. it's sort of like the alchemy of spirituality.

Perhaps some day Science will open a new chapter on exploring "Spiritology" and we'll look back on the days of Religion as we do the days of Alchemy? Man grappling with understanding that which he doesn't know.

Sorry we can't scientifically disprove your "something" greater than self theory. Too vague. You are irrelevant in the god debate

You should start a thread called "prove " something" doesnt exist.