Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

[mudwhistle]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Aha! It took the virus to make the economy Trump's.

We get it.

According to who?

Trump inherited a healthy economy. He deserves credit for ginning it up. If it fails, it will be on him as well. Just like the slow recovery was on Obama. Even though imo presidents don't have that much effect on the economy - they do end up politically owning it.

We get the rear-guard bit too. Obama took 8 years to take a last-place team to a .500 season. Trump took one year to take it into a three-peat champion, but we were reminded that Obama laid the groundwork.

Then ZAP! It became Trump's show a couple of weeks ago.

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Democrats never let facts get in the way of a good lie.

 

[bendog]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Aha! It took the virus to make the economy Trump's.

We get it.

According to who?

Trump inherited a healthy economy. He deserves credit for ginning it up. If it fails, it will be on him as well. Just like the slow recovery was on Obama. Even though imo presidents don't have that much effect on the economy - they do end up politically owning it.

Meaning no sarcasm but one of the bad things about corvid-19 is that it distorted or took the focus away from what Trump did economically. It's not like no one ever considered using so much deficit spending with a growing economy that the Fed actually had to directly purchase it because there'd be no way to sell the amount of necessary bonds to investors witout raising rates so high that it would tank the economy. But financing deficits is not the reason we established a central quasi-private bank. But Trump is the only one to try it. Krugman and Reich and others have warned about consequences, but only time will tell. And NOW with corvid-19, Trump's policies will not be historically vetted for their effects, good and bad.

 

[bendog]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Aha! It took the virus to make the economy Trump's.

We get it.

According to who?

Trump inherited a healthy economy. He deserves credit for ginning it up. If it fails, it will be on him as well. Just like the slow recovery was on Obama. Even though imo presidents don't have that much effect on the economy - they do end up politically owning it.

We get the rear-guard bit too. Obama took 8 years to take a last-place team to a .500 season. Trump took one year to take it into a three-peat champion, but we were reminded that Obama laid the groundwork.

Then ZAP! It became Trump's show a couple of weeks ago.

Never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Democrats never let facts get in the way of a good lie.

You lies about the economy's performance before Trump

 

[bendog]

But the problem with Muddy's lies about economic performance isn't just that he's a partisan stooge and racist, I mean he's hardly the only one on the board. But ascribing the economy's performance just to one or another president is infantile and stupid. Trump's response to corvid-19 has been tragically late in that our death rates are so high, but the reality is that he was correct that the only real tool we had against it was intentionally creating a recession, that will bankrupt hundreds of thousands and possibly sink his re-election. He may have blood on his hands, but the recession is not his fault.

 

[mudwhistle]

But the problem with Muddy's lies about economic performance isn't just that he's a partisan stooge and racist, I mean he's hardly the only one on the board. But ascribing the economy's performance just to one or another president is infantile and stupid. Trump's response to corvid-19 has been tragically late in that our death rates are so high, but the reality is that he was correct that the only real tool we had against it was intentionally creating a recession, that will bankrupt hundreds of thousands and possibly sink his re-election. He may have blood on his hands, but the recession is not his fault.

Yeah....just disagreeing with a socialist who happens to be black automatically means I'm a racist?
No.....I had issues with Obama because his idea of the future of America isn't the same as mine.
Personally I can't understand why someone who hates America would want to be president unless they want to stab everyone in the country in the back.
What kind of assholes would vote for someone like that anyway?

Apparently a low-life degenerate like yourself.

 

[lantern2814]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?

Seems you’re illiterate as well as a lying, ignorant apologist for Obozo. YOU mentioned him idiot. So now you get to listen to the truth about his incompetence. So Mayberry you should take your own advice. Your desperation is clear.

dude...

the 6th grade must have been the hardest 3 years of your life.

Sorry, you lose too, take your lousy consolation prize. Calling an idiotic liar out on her idiocy is bad? Well too bad.

So, nothing but funny faces to attempt to cover your total lack of any actual argument. Expected from a lying ignorant Obozo shill. You lose again,

You do realize you are now talking to yourself, right?

Hey dumb fuck, you do realize I was responding to an ignorant liar who does nothing but put up funny faces because the idiot has no rebuttal right? Looks like it was you who spent 5 years in the sixth grade. Dumbass.

you really do have issues. if you look back, turn off "ignore this shit" (which i did to make sure i wasn't missing anything) order of responses is now:

me - here
you - replying to my sarcasm
me - my sarcasm
previous 2 responses are from you. "so, nothing but funny faces" is in direct response to your post "sorry, you lose too, take your lousy consolation prize...

so you attacked yourself.

now - fuck off.

No, you can fuck off as you just showed how fucking stupid you truly are. Let’s dumb it down for you. When lying ignorant assholes have nothing but funny faces to comment since they have nothing to say, it shows their issues. Calling them out on it doesn’t mean I have issues. Your overreacting shows you’re issues and lack of comprehension skills. Now that you have embarrassed yourself maybe you’ll mind your own business next time so you don’t look so foolish.

 

[lantern2814]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?

Seems you’re illiterate as well as a lying, ignorant apologist for Obozo. YOU mentioned him idiot. So now you get to listen to the truth about his incompetence. So Mayberry you should take your own advice. Your desperation is clear.

dude...

the 6th grade must have been the hardest 3 years of your life.

Sorry, you lose too, take your lousy consolation prize. Calling an idiotic liar out on her idiocy is bad? Well too bad.

So, nothing but funny faces to attempt to cover your total lack of any actual argument. Expected from a lying ignorant Obozo shill. You lose again,

You do realize you are now talking to yourself, right?

Hey dumb fuck, you do realize I was responding to an ignorant liar who does nothing but put up funny faces because the idiot has no rebuttal right? Looks like it was you who spent 5 years in the sixth grade. Dumbass.

Try cleaning up your language and posting thoughtful responses for a change and you might get something more than laughter.

Try inserting actual evidence to support your positions, something besides calling people "lying ignorant Obozo shills" and screaming TDS and you might get some actual conversation.

Poor baby. Grow up you lying ignorant Obozo shill. Crying about language when you and your fellow leftists use more foul language than anybody. Lame excuse because you have nothing. All you ever do is blame Trump for everybody else’s screwups. You have been given evidence and you just ignore it. Try learning something.

 

[lantern2814]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

The
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Ignoring the idiocy which all of your posts are, it was still OBOZO’S responsibility to replace what HE used up. So of course your “reasonable person’s response” is just to blame Trump and ignore the FACT that restocking was the responsibility of the guy who used them. Period. By your own idiotic assertion, if I eat the last cookie it’s the next guy looking for one who has to replace the empty box, not me. In the real world, that’s called shirking responsibility. Something Obozo was an expert at. Showing you to be a TDS suffering idiot is too easy.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Don't remember numbering this one.

TDS thread 1,334.

 

[Coyote]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Aha! It took the virus to make the economy Trump's.

We get it.

According to who?

Trump inherited a healthy economy. He deserves credit for ginning it up. If it fails, it will be on him as well. Just like the slow recovery was on Obama. Even though imo presidents don't have that much effect on the economy - they do end up politically owning it.

We get the rear-guard bit too. Obama took 8 years to take a last-place team to a .500 season. Trump took one year to take it into a three-peat champion, but we were reminded that Obama laid the groundwork.

Then ZAP! It became Trump's show a couple of weeks ago.

I totally get that you are pathologically incapable of crediting Obama with anything. No need to explain.

 

[Coyote]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

 

[Coyote]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

The
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Ignoring the idiocy which all of your posts are, it was still OBOZO’S responsibility to replace what HE used up. So of course your “reasonable person’s response” is just to blame Trump and ignore the FACT that restocking was the responsibility of the guy who used them. Period. By your own idiotic assertion, if I eat the last cookie it’s the next guy looking for one who has to replace the empty box, not me. In the real world, that’s called shirking responsibility. Something Obozo was an expert at. Showing you to be a TDS suffering idiot is too easy.

Well, you can't say I didn't try but all I get from you is drivel and grade school insults in response.

Checking stock levels is the responsibility of the person in charge at any given time.

You don't take on a new job, without making sure important equipment and supplies are up to par. You don't wait 3 years to check. In fact those are the kinds of things that are probably (or should be) reviewed on an annual basis. You would be fired regardless of what your predecessor did. It's called personal responsibility, something that seems to evade Trump supporters these days. And NO boss is going to accept whining - of "but the guy before me left it empty".

 

[Coyote]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Obama's been out of office 3 years. Don't you think it's time to get over him?

Seems you’re illiterate as well as a lying, ignorant apologist for Obozo. YOU mentioned him idiot. So now you get to listen to the truth about his incompetence. So Mayberry you should take your own advice. Your desperation is clear.

dude...

the 6th grade must have been the hardest 3 years of your life.

Sorry, you lose too, take your lousy consolation prize. Calling an idiotic liar out on her idiocy is bad? Well too bad.

So, nothing but funny faces to attempt to cover your total lack of any actual argument. Expected from a lying ignorant Obozo shill. You lose again,

You do realize you are now talking to yourself, right?

Hey dumb fuck, you do realize I was responding to an ignorant liar who does nothing but put up funny faces because the idiot has no rebuttal right? Looks like it was you who spent 5 years in the sixth grade. Dumbass.

Try cleaning up your language and posting thoughtful responses for a change and you might get something more than laughter.

Try inserting actual evidence to support your positions, something besides calling people "lying ignorant Obozo shills" and screaming TDS and you might get some actual conversation.

Poor baby. Grow up you lying ignorant Obozo shill. Crying about language when you and your fellow leftists use more foul language than anybody. Lame excuse because you have nothing. All you ever do is blame Trump for everybody else’s screwups. You have been given evidence and you just ignore it. Try learning something.

No one's crying. Unless it's you. But if you want to be taken seriously in a discussion try growing up a little. You never addressed the examples I gave of Trump's bad policy rollouts - so bad, the agencies affected were left flat footed and unprepared. Anything to say about that and should Trump take responsibility for it?

 

[22lcidw]

Its not ab

Not once, ever.

He will pay for this come November, and possibly beyond.

out Trump being responsible. Its about people being irresponsible. Some are more so then others. And that is truth. And you know it. But it negates excuses. We all have them.

 

[Olde Europe]

Here's what's funny: Rightards claiming government is evil and needs to be cut down to a much smaller size, and after having done so, they whine and whine about money they did not appropriate, and which "the previous guy" then ended up not spending:

After using up the swine flu emergency funds, the Obama administration tried to replenish the stockpile in 2011 by asking Congress to provide $655 million, up from the previous year’s budget of less than $600 million. Responding to swine flu, which the CDC estimated killed more than 12,000 people in the United States over the course of a year, had required the largest deployment in the stockpile’s history, including nearly 20 million pieces of personal protective equipment and more than 85 million N95 masks, according to a 2016 report published by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine.

“We recognized the need for replenishment of the stockpile and budgeted about a 10% increase,” said Dr. Nicole Lurie, who served as the assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the Department of Health and Human Services during the Obama administration. “That was rejected by the Republican House.”

Republicans took over the House of Representatives in the 2010 midterms on the Tea Party wave of opposition to the landmark 2010 health care reform law, the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. The new House majority was intent on curbing government spending, especially at HHS, which administered Obamacare.

Congressional Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell in the Senate and House Speaker John Boehner, leveraged the debt ceiling — a limit on the government’s borrowing ability that had to be raised — to insist that the Obama administration accept federal spending curbs. The compromise, codified in the 2011 Budget Control Act, required a bipartisan “super committee” to find additional ways to reduce the deficit, or else it would trigger automatic across-the-board cuts known as “sequestration.”

Even in the aftermath of the swine flu pandemic, the stockpile wasn’t a priority then. Without a full committee markup, Rehberg introduced a bill that provided $522.5 million to the stockpile, about 12% less than the previous year and $132 million less than the administration wanted. “Nobody got everything they wanted,” Rehberg said.

The Senate version of the funding bill offered $561 million for stockpile funding. Senators said they regretted the cuts even as they voted for the bill.

“In this bill we’re now getting into the bone marrow,” Tom Harkin, a Democrat from Iowa who then chaired the Senate appropriations committee, said at the markup. “Some of these cuts will be painful and unpopular.”

In the bill’s final version, Congress allocated a compromise $534 million for the 2012 fiscal year, a 10% budget cut from the prior year and $121 million less than the Obama administration had requested.​

... and on and on. Hundreds of millions requested, yet not appropriated, and therefore not spent. That's on Boehner and McConnell, using the power of the purse to thwart a Democratic president's policy making. Doesn't slow down their whining about "the other guy", not one bit, since none of these benighted clowns knows anything about anything.

 

[Meathead]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Aha! It took the virus to make the economy Trump's.

We get it.

According to who?

Trump inherited a healthy economy. He deserves credit for ginning it up. If it fails, it will be on him as well. Just like the slow recovery was on Obama. Even though imo presidents don't have that much effect on the economy - they do end up politically owning it.

We get the rear-guard bit too. Obama took 8 years to take a last-place team to a .500 season. Trump took one year to take it into a three-peat champion, but we were reminded that Obama laid the groundwork.

Then ZAP! It became Trump's show a couple of weeks ago.

I totally get that you are pathologically incapable of crediting Obama with anything. No need to explain.

If you had the slightest grasp of the obvious, you would know there is no need for explanation.

We get the hopeychangey thing, but it didn't happen. Little in fact happened, and most of which did was undone by Trump in the first year.

Obama was not the worst president, but he was marginal at best. Get over it.

 

[Meathead]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Crises in Kosovo?! Talk about your tempest in a teapot...

 

[iceberg]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

The
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Ignoring the idiocy which all of your posts are, it was still OBOZO’S responsibility to replace what HE used up. So of course your “reasonable person’s response” is just to blame Trump and ignore the FACT that restocking was the responsibility of the guy who used them. Period. By your own idiotic assertion, if I eat the last cookie it’s the next guy looking for one who has to replace the empty box, not me. In the real world, that’s called shirking responsibility. Something Obozo was an expert at. Showing you to be a TDS suffering idiot is too easy.

Well, you can't say I didn't try but all I get from you is drivel and grade school insults in response.

Checking stock levels is the responsibility of the person in charge at any given time.

You don't take on a new job, without making sure important equipment and supplies are up to par. You don't wait 3 years to check. In fact those are the kinds of things that are probably (or should be) reviewed on an annual basis. You would be fired regardless of what your predecessor did. It's called personal responsibility, something that seems to evade Trump supporters these days. And NO boss is going to accept whining - of "but the guy before me left it empty".

in all fairness, do you leave one in shambles for someone to have to clean up? but - how was it given to obama? given we've *never* had to ramp up for anything like this in our past, it stands to reason it would fall to neglect. not out of irresponsibility but inaction.

if it was given to obama as such, i don't blame bush. how was it given to him. the point of the matter is we as a country or hell, world, have never faced anything like this. saying we should be prepared for something that has never happened is like bitching at oklahoma for not being prepared enough for 500 tornadoes at once.

it's never happened. how do you prepare? how do you make sure you're ready for something that has never happened? it would more seem the state of human nature in that no one has bitched about it since 1918, does every president come in and go "how are our pandemic supplies"? have we as a country *ever* made that a mandate or something someone needs to take on?

i don't blame trump. i don't blame obama before him or any president before them. this is all new and we need to learn from it, not blame people for it.

 

[mudwhistle]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

 

[lantern2814]

And Corona is an unfair metric. I agree with that.

The
Care to explain your rationale? For it seems to me, the implication is to justify Trump failing to take responsibility for the grossly inadequate response to the pandemic. That probably starts with dismantling the national Pandemic Response Team, and goes on with taking no action in response to the dismal results of a pandemic response exercise in 2019, right up to leaving the States out there haggling over, and out-bidding each other over the acquisition of, desperately needed supplies, and that's just for starters.

Because, or so Trump would inform us, "Nobody could have seen the likes of coronavirus coming."

because we're talking overall, not this one metric. i can't say "trump never accepts responsibility" if i can do adequate research into his entire past. you can say he didn't take it for CORONA but that's not the same as "never takes it" now is it?

now - what else did trump say other than "I don't take responsibility"?

lag in testing was a failing - do you take responsibility for that?

so we're asking trump does he take responsibility for the lag in testing. not covid. not much of anything else.

the video in question:


"Dr Fauchi said the lag in testing was in fact a failing and do you take responsibility for that"?

this is the question - is it trumps fault we had a lag in testing?

let's look - from CNN - Here's why the US is behind in coronavirus testing
"The whole diagnostic capability of the United States against this disease was hung up on one test being produced at CDC," said Konyndyk, formerly a director with the US Agency for International Development and now with the Center for Global Development. "And when that test failed, all of the testing outside of it, outside of what CDC itself could do and its own lab, was held up. That kept us from having visibility on domestic transmission of the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks."
-----
initial test failed. this held up other testing for 2 weeks. why the delay? looks like RED TAPE.

more from the article:

On February 29, FDA issued new guidance that allowed certain US labs to test for coronavirus using diagnostics the labs developed and validated, before the agency reviewed them.

Dr. Alex Greninger, an assistant professor at the University of Washington's Department of Laboratory Medicine and one of the letter's signatories, said the emergency-use authorization process in place in February would have taken weeks for clinical labs and others to clear.

"You have to give credit to the FDA, they have changed their policies significantly," said Greninger, who added that the transmissibility of the coronavirus seemed to defy regulations previously established by the government. "How do you regulate something you've never seen before?"
-----
so we're in uncharted waters. the old methods worked fine for smaller issues. since we've never seen this before, our own regulations got in our way and we had to get around that. sounds like we did. this should be reviewed in a POST MORTEM for process improvement. not blame. post mortems are never the place to shove blame. you want these to be unbiased and actionable to the process, not the person. hence my issue w/schiff. 1, his motives are wrong and 2. his timing is horrible. focus on resolving this THEN the post mortem.

more from the story as to the delay:
Even though commercial labs ramped up the testing, medical workers at several state health departments, hospitals and labs told CNN that they're running low on materials needed to conduct the tests, like swabs, reagents, which are the testing chemicals, and pipettes, which are tools for transporting liquids. The shortage forced Minnesota and Ohio to limit testing to the most vulnerable patients
-----
just flat out are not equipped at any given time to test and entire country. should we be? good question; for later.

so - based on the question asked and NOTHING ELSE - how was trump personally responsible for this delay in testing that would have required him, for the sake of honesty, to take responsibility for this?

True.

I can think of several metrics in regards Covid19 where it can be argued Trump does bear responsibility.

1. Restocking the national stockpile of medical supplies. Yes, Obama should have restocked during his administration, but didn't. That doesn't really go as an argument. The president's responsibility is to make sure it is stocked during his administration. If I took over a job as an emergency coordinator and found out 3 years in the stockpile was low - I'd be fired. I would have been expected to check at the beginning and replenish, regardless of what my predecessor had done.

2. I'm not even sure how to word this one so I'll be blunt - complete and ongoing bungling in delegating, assigning qualified people, retaining qualified people, and heeding the advice of qualified people when it comes to addressing this crisis. Multiple changes in leadership of multiple and competing (and often not communicating) groups attempting to work on this has created a morass of conflicts and inaction. Not listening to, and in fact outright contradicting the public advice of his chosen experts has led to public confusion and contradictory policies. This is not unique to this situation - it's reflective of Trump's overall approach to organization in his Administration, but in this particular case the repercussions become obvious and can cost lives. This is a situation where having a "bureaucracy" is beneficial - having people who know how the system works, what strings to pull, and who to go to is important. And speaking with ONE voice is critical. We have an undisciplined president publicly contradicting his own experts - that does not lead to confidence this crisis is being well handled.

No, the President is handling this well according to over 60% of the country. Note this ignorant, uneducated tool STILL gives Obozo a pass for not doing his job and continues to say it’s Trump’s fault. No matter what he has done, idiots like you whine and cry about it. Let’s be blunt. You’re a TDS afflicted liar. Period.

Here's what a reasonable person would post, ignoring your grade school insults which comprise most of your posts.

Obama's been out of office for 3 years. What happens now is on Trump. You can forgive mistakes early on in an administration, there is a learning curve. But he's three years in and you are still blaming Obama.

Trump was/is responsible for making sure our medical stockpile is adequately stocked. It doesn't matter if his predecessor didn't leave it fully stocked. It's Trump's job NOW. And for the past 3 years. I pointed out elsewhere that if you or I were in charge of something like that, and three years into our job, there was an emergency and the stockpile found to be deficient - we'd be fired. No boss is going to take "but but the guy before me left it empty" as a valid excuse for not doing your job.

Secondly - the issue of massive disorganization, communication at cross currents, and high turnover rates within this Administration is well documented. It exceeds the normal attrition that occurs in most administrations. When you have high turn over like that - you lose history, continuity, and public confidence. When you have an administration beset with infighting, and a president who consistently contradicts what his people say - you worsen the problem. And, as a last factor - assigning clearly incompetent and inexperienced people to a critical job like overseeing the pandemic response absolutely erodes public confidence. Pence - good choice. But now we have Jared Kushner - working his own "shadow" response team. WTH?

Ignoring the idiocy which all of your posts are, it was still OBOZO’S responsibility to replace what HE used up. So of course your “reasonable person’s response” is just to blame Trump and ignore the FACT that restocking was the responsibility of the guy who used them. Period. By your own idiotic assertion, if I eat the last cookie it’s the next guy looking for one who has to replace the empty box, not me. In the real world, that’s called shirking responsibility. Something Obozo was an expert at. Showing you to be a TDS suffering idiot is too easy.

Well, you can't say I didn't try but all I get from you is drivel and grade school insults in response.

Checking stock levels is the responsibility of the person in charge at any given time.

You don't take on a new job, without making sure important equipment and supplies are up to par. You don't wait 3 years to check. In fact those are the kinds of things that are probably (or should be) reviewed on an annual basis. You would be fired regardless of what your predecessor did. It's called personal responsibility, something that seems to evade Trump supporters these days. And NO boss is going to accept whining - of "but the guy before me left it empty".

Again you show how STUPID you are. Your utter refusal to do anything but blame Trump and lie about everything (yes I’m calling you out you ignorant bitch). Don’t you EVER talk about personal responsibility when your hero Obozo NEVER took personal responsibility for anything. Period. Using up the stock and not replacing it will ALWAYS be Obozo’s fault. No matter how much you whine, cry, and lie.