Hate crime?

[Sky Dancer]

Black and brown gang members kill each other daily. Going to charge those as hate crimes, too? I guarantee that hate IS in fact the motive. But, it's gang-related hate, not race-related hate.

What's the difference?

Are you really serious? You don't know the difference between gang violence and hate crime?

 

[JBeukema]

Being born on the wrong side of the street isn't synonymous with being in a gang.

Born on the wrong side of the street = association wit that street's gang, especially if your family or neighbor is a member.

Kinda like being born to a black family males you black, even of you're a halfbreed who identifies as something else

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Oy. Are you really this fucking stupid?

Not only emotions drive people to murder. It could be other things, such as need or want for money. You really need me to provide you with evidence of this?

Here is a good search with millions of results. Many of those people were murdered for money. Not out of hate.

murdered for money - Google Search

Normally when someone makes a claim it's on them to back it up. Tell me what drove these people to commit murder for money and what do you suppose their enotional state was at the time? It couldn't have been any form of hatred. I'd argue that if I killed you for your vehicle then I was probably pissed off that you had something I didn't, therefore I'd kill your dumbass and take it away from you.

*sigh*

My claim was that there are more emotions than love and hate. You really need me to back that up? You want me to wipe your ass when you take a shit too?

I have no idea what their emotional state was at the time, but thats irrelevant. They weren't doing it out of hate, they were doing it out of a desire for tangible items. Whatever emotions they may have been feeling aren't relevant to the argument.

It never ceases to amaze me how brave folks get over the internet. I bet you would never have the courage to call me stupid in person. But that's an argument for another day. A little word of advice, grow up!

If you are going to throw around insults, expect them to get them thrown back in your face. Especially when you say really stupid shit like "omg you aren't logical cause I know he did it out of hate, cause he surely didn't do it out of love!!!!!"

I doubt you can even wipe your own ass, much less anyone elses. FTR I would never say "omg" fact is violent crimes are violent because the emotions are anything but loving or tender. If you're not bright enough to realize that then that's your cross to carry.

I insulted you by stating the fact that you do not know how to properly present an argument? You shouldn't be insulted because of that, you should be ashamed.

 

[JBeukema]

I doubt you can even wipe your own ass, much less anyone elses.

Why would he want to wipe someone else's ass?

 

[Nik]

Being born on the wrong side of the street isn't synonymous with being in a gang.

Born on the wrong side of the street = association wit that street's gang, especially if your family or neighbor is a member.

Kinda like being born to a black family males you black, even of you're a halfbreed who identifies as something else

Then move. It might suck, but its something that you have the ability to change. Furthermore, there are many people who actively choose to join gangs, which you are conveniently ignoring.

 

[JBeukema]

Then move. It might suck, but its something that you have the ability to change. Furthermore, there are many people who actively choose to join gangs, which you are conveniently ignoring.

Not if age or socio-economic conditions make that impossible.

Either gang violence= hate crime, or 'hate crime' laws are simply stupid. Those are the only options, thanks to the logic of the idiot libs who want these laws.

Which is it?

 

[Nik]

Normally when someone makes a claim it's on them to back it up. Tell me what drove these people to commit murder for money and what do you suppose their enotional state was at the time? It couldn't have been any form of hatred. I'd argue that if I killed you for your vehicle then I was probably pissed off that you had something I didn't, therefore I'd kill your dumbass and take it away from you.

*sigh*

My claim was that there are more emotions than love and hate. You really need me to back that up? You want me to wipe your ass when you take a shit too?

I have no idea what their emotional state was at the time, but thats irrelevant. They weren't doing it out of hate, they were doing it out of a desire for tangible items. Whatever emotions they may have been feeling aren't relevant to the argument.

It never ceases to amaze me how brave folks get over the internet. I bet you would never have the courage to call me stupid in person. But that's an argument for another day. A little word of advice, grow up!

If you are going to throw around insults, expect them to get them thrown back in your face. Especially when you say really stupid shit like "omg you aren't logical cause I know he did it out of hate, cause he surely didn't do it out of love!!!!!"

I doubt you can even wipe your own ass, much less anyone elses. FTR I would never say "omg" fact is violent crimes are violent because the emotions are anything but loving or tender. If you're not bright enough to realize that then that's your cross to carry.

I insulted you by stating the fact that you do not know how to properly present an argument? You shouldn't be insulted because of that, you should be ashamed.

I can wipe my ass just fine, and I don't really know if I can wipe other peoples. I haven't tried. Is this something you have extensive experience with? Wiping other peoples asses?

And I don't really care if you would say omg. I was mocking you. Its not hard to understand.

Wow, violent crimes aren't loving and tender? Wow. I didn't know that. Thanks for enlightening me to that incredibly obvious fact that nobody has argued against. What I am arguing is that hate crimes are a specific type of hate towards an immutable characteristic. Killing someone for money isn't killing for hate, its killing for goods.

Yes, thats an insult. If you can't figure out that, I really can't help you. Its time for the nursery home for you, gramps.

 

[Nik]

Then move. It might suck, but its something that you have the ability to change. Furthermore, there are many people who actively choose to join gangs, which you are conveniently ignoring.

Not if age or socio-economic conditions make that impossible.

Either gang violence= hate crime, or 'hate crime' laws are simply stupid. Those are the only options, thanks to the logic of the idiot libs who want these laws.

Which is it?

Oy. No, they aren't the only options. There is NOBODY who can change their race, whereas there are MANY people who can change their gang affiliation. Pointing to a minority who can't doesn't help you.

 

[JBeukema]

Oy. No, they aren't the only options. There is NOBODY who can change their race, whereas there are MANY people who can change their gang affiliation. Pointing to a minority who can't doesn't help you.

It is a hate crime. They were assaulted by Y because they were perceived as Y- the very criterion you people put forth for a 'hate crime'

 

[catzmeow]

Its a shitty situation, but in some sense he could still leave. But thinking of complex hypos where someone actually must join a gang isn't really helpful. The point is that race is immutable, and being in a gang is not.

I don't think that hate crimes between gangs are less hate crimes than hate crimes between less.

The intention is to terrorize an entire group/community. It works. There's very little difference.

But, I don't think Nik wants to be rational about this. He just wants this legislation, whether it works or not...because he wants it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

What hate crime is and what causes it.
http://www.cahro.org/html/hate_crimes.html#whatcauseshate

 

[Nik]

Oy. No, they aren't the only options. There is NOBODY who can change their race, whereas there are MANY people who can change their gang affiliation. Pointing to a minority who can't doesn't help you.

It is a hate crime. They were assaulted by Y because they were perceived as Y- the very criterion you people put forth for a 'hate crime'

Really? I put forth that criterion? Where exactly?

 

[Nik]

Its a shitty situation, but in some sense he could still leave. But thinking of complex hypos where someone actually must join a gang isn't really helpful. The point is that race is immutable, and being in a gang is not.

I don't think that hate crimes between gangs are less hate crimes than hate crimes between less.

The intention is to terrorize an entire group/community. It works. There's very little difference.

But, I don't think Nik wants to be rational about this. He just wants this legislation, whether it works or not...because he wants it.

Right, I'm not rational cause I can't tell the difference between gangs and race

 

[JBeukema]

I don't think that hate crimes between gangs are less hate crimes than hate crimes between less.
\.

I don't know what language that is, but it sure doesn't look like English

 

[Barb]

really. A jury's hate-crime verdict in rural Pennsylvania reinforces the racial divide | Crooks and Liars

 

[Barb]

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SPLCenter.org: Hate Groups Map

"The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 926 active hate groups in the United States in 2008. Only organizations and their chapters known to be active during 2008 are included."

 

[LaLinda75]

Gang fights are NOT about hate - they are about TERRITORY!

 

[Mr. President]

Does the reason really make the action any worse? If a guy raped a girl because she was black and a guy raped a girl because a voice told him too would you rather both have been raped by the guy hearing the voice because at least then it wasn't racially motivated? Would you sentence the guy who heard a voice to any less time? See the issue is that race is a non issue a crime is a crime.

 

[Nik]

Does the reason really make the action any worse? If a guy raped a girl because she was black and a guy raped a girl because a voice told him too would you rather both have been raped by the guy hearing the voice because at least then it wasn't racially motivated? Would you sentence the guy who heard a voice to any less time? See the issue is that race is a non issue a crime is a crime.

Oy, try reading the thread. This issue has been asked, and addressed.

 

[Mr. President]

SO why is this arguement still going on. Stubborn is one thing being unable to use logic and fact to back your claims or refusing to comprehend data for the reason that it will weaken your arguement is ignorant. There is no difference between a racially motivated crime and a gang crime. When a gang beats and robs a man because he is in ownership of a piece of property that the gang wants is it his fault for buying it? Killing for possesions is a hate crime because someone hates that another person has what they want.