Hate crime?

[catzmeow]

Hate crimes directed towards gays/lesbians during 2003: 1447 (this is based upon stats from the FBI (8715 total incidents times 16.6% of them being gender bias incidents)

Source: FBI Releases 2003 Hate Crime Statistics

Gays/lesbians as victims of domestic assault during 2003: 6,523

Patricia Tjaden & Nancy Thoennes, U.S. Dep't of Just., NCJ 181867, Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, at 30 (2000), available at Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence: Findings From the National Violence Against Women Survey | National Institute of Justice

According to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs:

6,523 incidences of lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender violence were recorded in eleven distinct cities and regions across the USA and Toronto, Ontario. 44% of the victims were men and 36% were women. This represented a 13% increase over the 5718 cases reported in 2002 by the same agencies and includes six reported deaths in the context of actual or suspected LGBT violence. Arizona reported one death and New York City reported five deaths.

4,964 or about 79% of the new incidents were reported in Los Angeles. The number of LGBT incidents in other cities and states include Boston (290), New York City (501), San Francisco (388), Colorado (139) , Chicago (65), Columbus, Ohio (46) , Pennsylvania (19) , Burlington, Vermont (21), Tuscon (64).

Do you get that gays/lesbians are FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE VICTIMIZED BY A MEMBER OF THEIR OWN SEXUAL ORIENTATION AS TO BE A VICTIM OF A HATE CRIME?

 

[Sky Dancer]

A substantial majority of the American public favors the expansion of federal hate crime legislation to include crimes against people based on their gender, sexual orientation, and gender identity. The U.S. House of Representatives has passed such legislation, which is now being considered by the Senate. Republicans, conservatives, and religious Americans are slightly less likely than others to favor the expansion of hate crime legislation, but a majority of those in each of these conservative and religious groups favors the proposed legislation.
Public Favors Expansion of Hate Crime Law to Include Sexual Orientation

 

[catzmeow]

Nobody attempts to "hush it up". But males disproportionately are abusers.

Wrong. If you look at it, on a per capita basis, domestic violence occurs about 50% more in gay/lesbian couples than in hetero couples. The reason that it looks like males are disproportionately abusers is because hetero couples so overwhelmingly outnumber gay/lesbian couples.

But, per capita tells you how likely it is to happen in any given couple...MUCH MORE LIKELY IN GAY/LESBIAN COUPLES.

Again. No facts from you. Just more claims without substantiation.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Do you get it that I understand the impact of domestic violence in general. That has nothing to do with the need for hate crime law and extending it to include gays and lesbians.

 

[Nik]

Exactly what evidence are you looking for?

1. Evidence as to the number of hate crimes directed towards gays/lesbians annually in the U.S.

Table 1 - Hate Crime Statistics 2007

"Only" 1,400.

2. Evidence that hate crime laws reduce violent crimes against the protected class.

That will be sufficient. You've offered NO evidence, to date, of any of your claims.

Sure, as I said I'll go survey those that were gonna commit crimes, but didn't.

 

[catzmeow]

Do you get it that I understand the impact of domestic violence in general. That has nothing to do with the need for hate crime law and extending it to include gays and lesbians.

Actually, it does. The fact of the matter is that when you talk about violence against gays/lesbians, the vast majority of that violence is perpetrated BY OTHER GAYS/LESBIANS.

 

[catzmeow]

Exactly what evidence are you looking for?

1. Evidence as to the number of hate crimes directed towards gays/lesbians annually in the U.S.

Table 1 - Hate Crime Statistics 2007

1,400.

How many domestic assaults between gays/lesbians occurred during that time period?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Although the prevalence of anti-gay and lesbian violence is not fully known on a national scale, studies are providing detailed statistics on its possible extent:

Anti-gay and lesbian incidents increased 8 percent from 1999 to 2000. Serious injuries resulting from these incidents decreased by forty-one percent (Moore, 2001).
In 1999, the FBI reported that there were 1,317 incidents of violence based on sexual orientation. Of those, anti-male homosexuality violence characterized sixty-nine percent of the incidents (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 2000).
Approximately one-half of perpetrators are age twenty-one or younger. (Comstock, 1991).
A campus survey reported that 61 percent of the gay/lesbian respondents feared for their safety as their orientation would be used as a reason for violence. (Herek, Berrill, 1992).

The National Center for Victims of Crime - Library/Document Viewer

 

[Nik]

Between July and October 1993, four arsons and three attempted arsons were committed by a self-proclaimed white separatist in Sacramento, California.

The first was the attempted arson of a Jewish temple in July. A few days later, the local office of the NAACP was destroyed by fire. Neither organization recieved threats prio to the attacks and no individual claimed responsibility.

The investigation of the NAACP arson was exhaustive but recovered little physcial evidence that could identify a suspect.

After the failed arson attempts in August and September, the connection between the crimes and their motivation of hate became clear to investigators and residents of Sacramento when the arsonist used Molotov cocktails to ignite the offices of the Japanese American Citizens League and the State Office of Fair Employment Housing as well as the home of an Asian American city council man.

Calling himself the Aryan Liberation Front, the arsonist telephone local TV stations claiming responsibility for all arson attacks. Widespread public fear put intense pressure on local state and federal officials to stop the burnings. A task force was formed and by using the profile to conduct a computer search of white supremacists in the area the suspect was found. Cloth at his home matched wicks recovered from the crime scenes.

Hate crimes outrage community members as few events can.

Source is Bureau of Justice Assistance fact sheet.

During that time period in 1993, how many whites were robbed, raped, and murdered by blacks in Sacramento? During that time period in 1993, how many blacks were victims of violent crimes perpetrated by OTHER BLACK PEOPLE?

That is the reality of crime in America...the hate crimes get all the coverage, but in terms of numbers, they are VERY INSIGNIFICANT in comparison to ongoing victimization of blacks and whites by black perpetrators.

I'm not a racist, that is based upon actual data.

Do you not get that targeting someone because of an immutable characteristic is particularly horrible? Do you not get that those events effect LOTS of people and not just the victim? Do you not get that many of these people are regularly discriminated against in a variety of settings?

This whole "well, other things are worse" argument is nonsensical. Should we address black on black crime? Yes. But that other crime exists is NOT a reason to ignore hate crimes.

 

[Nik]

1. Evidence as to the number of hate crimes directed towards gays/lesbians annually in the U.S.

Table 1 - Hate Crime Statistics 2007

1,400.

How many domestic assaults between gays/lesbians occurred during that time period?

Try doing your own research. And I've already pre-empted the claim you are going to make, so you might want to reply to that first.

 

[Sky Dancer]

“Current hate crimes law leaves federal prosecutors powerless to intervene in bias-motivated crimes when they cannot also establish that the crime was committed because of the victim’s involvement in a ‘federally protected activity,’ such as serving on a jury, attending a public school, or voting.”

At the same time, while limited federal support is available to police and prosecutors at the state and local level to confront violent hate crimes, this assistance is not available in cases of sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or disability bias crimes. Thus, there is now no federal back-stop to the efforts—or indifference—of local law enforcement and prosecutors to combat such crimes.

The Act would also specifically provide for financial as well as nonfinancial “technical, forensic, and prosecutorial assistance” to state and local law enforcement bodies for investigating and prosecuting hate crimes. Further, the Act would bring the terms of federal criminal law regarding hate crimes into line with the monitoring requirements of the Hate Crime Statistics Act."
Usa | The Framework Of Law| Fighting Discrimination | Human Rights First


Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, “Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illumines it.”

 

[catzmeow]

Try doing your own research. And I've already pre-empted the claim you are going to make, so you might want to reply to that first.

You have an obligation to prove your case here, Nik. And, to put your arguments into scale. Gays/lesbians are FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE ASSAULTED BY A DOMESTIC PARTNER THAN TO BE A VICTIM OF A BIAS CRIME.

Why isn't that your focus, if you sincerely care about violence against gays/lesbians?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Try doing your own research. And I've already pre-empted the claim you are going to make, so you might want to reply to that first.

You have an obligation to prove your case here, Nik. And, to put your arguments into scale. Gays/lesbians are FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE ASSAULTED BY A DOMESTIC PARTNER THAN TO BE A VICTIM OF A BIAS CRIME.

Why isn't that your focus, if you sincerely care about violence against gays/lesbians?

Admit that hate crime exists--toward any group. Just try it. It happens to be the truth. I provided proof of a wave of hate related arson that targeted Jews, blacks and Asians and terrorized the community of Sacramento. That's what hate crime is--not this domestic violence sideline you've detracted into.

This whole tactic to get into domestic violence is beside the point and you know it.
Your point throughout the thread is hate crime denial.

You show your true colors on this one.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Do you get it that I understand the impact of domestic violence in general. That has nothing to do with the need for hate crime law and extending it to include gays and lesbians.

Actually, it does. The fact of the matter is that when you talk about violence against gays/lesbians, the vast majority of that violence is perpetrated BY OTHER GAYS/LESBIANS.

Domestic violence is not hate crime as defined by the federal statutes. It's in another category altogether which you very well know.

Hate crime denier.

 

[Nik]

Try doing your own research. And I've already pre-empted the claim you are going to make, so you might want to reply to that first.

You have an obligation to prove your case here, Nik.

I did prove my case. You are asking me to do research to try to prove YOUR case.

And, to put your arguments into scale. Gays/lesbians are FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE ASSAULTED BY A DOMESTIC PARTNER THAN TO BE A VICTIM OF A BIAS CRIME.

Why isn't that your focus, if you sincerely care about violence against gays/lesbians?

[/quote]

Because nobody claims that domestic violence somehow isn't a problem. And try to actually focus on the issues at hand, and less on what I should focus on. What I do isn't the issue, although you want to make that the issue because you have no other argument. The issue is that gay and lesbians suffer from hate crimes, and that is a problem. That they suffer from other crimes, that other people are worse off, that gays and lesbians suffer violence from other GLBT folks isn't the point here.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Try doing your own research. And I've already pre-empted the claim you are going to make, so you might want to reply to that first.

You have an obligation to prove your case here, Nik. And, to put your arguments into scale. Gays/lesbians are FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE ASSAULTED BY A DOMESTIC PARTNER THAN TO BE A VICTIM OF A BIAS CRIME.

Why isn't that your focus, if you sincerely care about violence against gays/lesbians?

It's not my focus in this thread because we are discussing hate crime, not domestic violence. Why are YOU unconcerned about hate crime? I'd like to know. What do you think of the arson wave in Sacramento? Was that NOT hate crime? Why did you ignore that post? Nevermind. I know why. I provided evidence of hate crime and you'd rather deny it.



On December 13, in the Bay Area city of Richmond, a lesbian woman was gang-raped by four men who used homophobic epithets as they violently assaulted her for almost an hour, before leaving her naked in the street.

The vicious attack began when four men jumped her after she got out of her car, which had a rainbow sticker on it, clubbed her with a blunt object, disrobed her and began raping her. When a passerby almost stumbled on them during the rape, they bundled the woman into her car and took her to an abandoned building, where the sexual attack continued, until the men finally left her naked, and badly injured.

Despite nearly zero national news coverage, some 200 people came out to a candlelight vigil December 27 to show their solidarity with the woman and her partner. Public outrage and community pressure on Richmond law enforcement resulted in arrests for those responsible for this heinous attack.

Activists note that anti-gay hate crimes are on the rise nationally. According to FBI statistics, hate crimes directed at people because of their sexual orientation have risen over the past two years--1,017 were reported in 2005, 1,195 in 2006 and 1,265 in 2007.
http://socialistworker.org/2009/01/19/anti-gay-hate-crimes

 

[catzmeow]

I should be concerned about an arson wave in 1993? How long ago was that, Sky?

Gays/lesbians are FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE ASSAULTED BY A DOMESTIC PARTNER THAN TO BE A VICTIM OF A BIAS CRIME.

Why isn't that your focus, if you sincerely care about violence against gays/lesbians?

 

[Nik]

i should be concerned about an arson wave in 1993? How long ago was that, sky?

gays/lesbians are five times more likely to be assaulted by a domestic partner than to be a victim of a bias crime.

Why isn't that your focus, if you sincerely care about violence against gays/lesbians?

its a thread about hate crimes you fucking idiot

 

[Mr. President]

No, its not "his fault". I knew someone was going to say something retarded like this. Just because a crime isn't predicated on hate doesn't mean its not a crime or shouldn't be prevented. Someone being killed is bad whether its because of hate, or for property.

What I said was not retarded it was to prove a point. Why do we need to know why a crime is committed when a crime is committed? The same penalty should be imposed on the same crimes regardless of "reason".

 

[Nik]

No, its not "his fault". I knew someone was going to say something retarded like this. Just because a crime isn't predicated on hate doesn't mean its not a crime or shouldn't be prevented. Someone being killed is bad whether its because of hate, or for property.

What I said was not retarded it was to prove a point. Why do we need to know why a crime is committed when a crime is committed? The same penalty should be imposed on the same crimes regardless of "reason".

Really?

So we should impose the same penalty on someone who shoots someone in the face, on purpose, in self defense as someone who goes up to a cop and shoots him in the face?