Health Care - we gotta fix this shit...

[boedicca]

Your silly misunderstanding of Howard Roark, The Fountainhead, Objectivism and Ayn Rand pins the bogometer. The ideological underpinnings remain the same. Centralized planning and forcing people to support others at the point of a gun are not consistent with Howard Roark by any stretch of the imagination.

Your silly misunderstanding that Rand was a fantastic author, but horrible candidate for social commentary, is very common among Right Wing extremists.

I think you'd have to understand her biography before you delve into the deeper discussions. Emigrating from a heinous regime in communist Soviet Union skews her views about how a society should exist.

In her fantasies, isolationism is fine. Your error is discerning fantasy from reality.

Oh blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzz

Riddle me this: why did Roark blow up the Cortland Arms low income housing project? How does that contrast with your implication that he would support ACA?

 

[Howard Roark]

So what? You're equivocating the cost-sharing that insurance companies do to balance their books with the purpose of insurance. They are very different. The point of real insurance, the reason people buy policies, isn't cost sharing. It's a hedge against risk.

It's only a hedge against risk because cost sharing makes it affordable to the masses. Otherwise, you would simply be prepaying for maternity/cancer/etc. You would be better off just banking the premium dollars and try to pay when the claims arise. It doesn't work.

Do you understand that? Do you understand how attempting to use insurance as a cost-sharing club isn't viable? Can you imagine what would happen in other markets if we tried the same nonsense? How would financing your grocery expenses work on the group-cost-sharing model? How would that impact prices?

Do you understand that cost sharing is the only way it can work? We do finance grocery costs on a cost sharing basis, although govt. subsidized agriculture further skews the numbers. BUT... grocery prices in high volume stores are much lower than small stores that don't buy in volume.

Ok, no problem. Can you answer the questions posed?

What are you asking? All I've seen is your commentary on how you believe insurance should exist. Are you/have you ever been in the individual market?

 

[Howard Roark]

Oh blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzz

Riddle me this: why did Roark blow up the Cortland Arms low income housing project? How does that contrast with your implication that he would support ACA?

If you're tired, take a nap and come back when you can focus.

 

[dblack]

So what? You're equivocating the cost-sharing that insurance companies do to balance their books with the purpose of insurance. They are very different. The point of real insurance, the reason people buy policies, isn't cost sharing. It's a hedge against risk.

It's only a hedge against risk because cost sharing makes it affordable to the masses.

What does that even mean?

The difference between a hedge against risk and cost sharing is what the customer hopes to get out of it. People don't buy insurance to share costs. You don't buy insurance for your house to share the cost of lawn care and upkeep. You don't buy car insurance to cover fuel and maintenance expenses. You buy insurance to cover you in cases of extreme financial loss. In case your house burns down or your car is damaged in an bad accident. Using insurance to cover regular expenses is just dumb. It makes them more expensive (the insurance company always takes a cut), not less.

Do you understand that cost sharing is the only way it can work? We do finance grocery costs on a cost sharing basis, although govt. subsidized agriculture further skews the numbers. BUT... grocery prices in high volume stores are much lower than small stores that don't buy in volume.

No, we don't try to handle grocery expenses in the way we're trying to handle health care expenses. If we did, we'd be facing the same problems with price inflation and abuse.

Are you/have you ever been in the individual market?

My dad was self-employed, so the insurance I grew up with was of that variety. And it was much better. The doctor never had to interact with the insurance company. They provided health care. We filed claims against insurance. We paid for insurance against emergencies and unexpected medical bills. We had incentive to not use the insurance because if we did our rates would go up. People in group plans have the opposite incentive.

 

[boedicca]

Oh blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzz

Riddle me this: why did Roark blow up the Cortland Arms low income housing project? How does that contrast with your implication that he would support ACA?

If you're tired, take a nap and come back when you can focus.

I can always take a nap to deal with being tired.

You, however, are boring and dull...for which there is no cure.

 

[Howard Roark]

Oh blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzz

Riddle me this: why did Roark blow up the Cortland Arms low income housing project? How does that contrast with your implication that he would support ACA?

If you're tired, take a nap and come back when you can focus.

I can always take a nap to deal with being tired.

You, however, are boring and dull...for which there is no cure.

It's rather common for those who cannot keep up with the subject, to become bored and lose focus

 

[boedicca]

Oh blah blah blah so sleepy....zzzzz

Riddle me this: why did Roark blow up the Cortland Arms low income housing project? How does that contrast with your implication that he would support ACA?

If you're tired, take a nap and come back when you can focus.

I can always take a nap to deal with being tired.

You, however, are boring and dull...for which there is no cure.

It's rather common for those who cannot keep up with the subject, to become bored and lose focus

You don't even grok the subject, bub.

You're just a dull lurker who has decided to bore us all with your drivel.

 

[Howard Roark]

You don't even grok the subject, bub.

You're just a dull lurker who has decided to bore us all with your drivel.

Again...it's often a symptom of a lack of ability to focus, that causes boredom. If you work on your comprehension issues, you'll eventually see a marked improvement when you participate on these boards.

 

[boedicca]

You don't even grok the subject, bub.

You're just a dull lurker who has decided to bore us all with your drivel.

Again...it's often a symptom of a lack of ability to focus, that causes boredom. If you work on your comprehension issues, you'll eventually see a marked improvement when you participate on these boards.

Think that if it gives you comfort. In RealityLand, you are boring, dull, uninteresting, bland, tedious, tiresome, trite....

 

[healthmyths]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

Wow. That’s very leftist of you.

As a naturalized American from Canada, I will tell you this - the American system is better for upper middle class people and higher, the Canadian system is better for lower middle class and lower.

And I have NO problem with Canada single payer with a population of 36.7 million of which 83.8% are Caucasian...
Versus the USA...327.7 million... nearly 9 times!
But see this is where the ONE size fits all concept of single payer breaks down!
Canada with less then 1/9th the population can manage it and with 10 providences versus 50 states?
So why not get YOUR state to have single payer health insurance and let me in my state make up whether I want single payer?
I don't understand that this "one size fits all" mentality because people in Florida hardly freeze to death versus Minnesota!!
And people in Texas probably have a different health issues than Iowa.

So why this need for "one size fits all"? Comparing a country with less than 1/9th the population as a model? Get real!

Canada’s system has its problems, no doubt about it. I think the US system is better, especially as an upper income earner. But after being in both systems, if I were lower middle class, I’d move back to Canada.

FYI in Canada, the system is run by the provinces, not the Federal government. The Federal government sets the standards and provides funding, but the provinces run the program.

But the size doesn’t really matter. Germany and Japan are large nations with single payer systems.

Size DOES matter!
Population of Japan..126.8 million 1/3 of the USA! And of that 98.5% contribution from ethnic Japanese people.
Population of Germany: 82.8 million 1/4 the size of the USA. German 91.5%, Turkish 2.4%, other 6.1% (made up largely of Polish, Italian, Romanian, Syrian, and Greek)

Again... why is it you want to compare a almost homogenous population like Germany/Japan! Of course it's easier to handle health care in that situation.
But again... idiots like you don't know a shitting thing about health insurance, states' insurance regulators, medical liability ratios, and yet you complain and think
single payer is the answer!
Do idiots like you know that less than 1.5% of the American population do not have health insurance that WANT it??? 3%!
FACTS do the math!
less than 5 million truly want and need insurance out of a population of 327 million!
But you idiots don't want to deal in the FACTS. There never were 46 million uninsured Americans! Period!
And you idiots keep believing this same MSM that touts 500 million straws consumed per day from a 9 year old KID who called SOME manufacturers who told him how many they MADE! But even the National Park Service and dozens of MSM repeated that figure.
The point is why can't idiots like you do some simple Google searches as I did and put into the ATTACHED!
Why even the architect of ACA who said it took the stupidity of Americans to pass ACA AGREED! nearly 10 million of those that signed up for ACA were already eligible BEFORE
ACA for Medicaid. Again read the attached and start thinking for yourself and not depending on the dumb ass biased MSM!

I’m sorry. I mistook you for someone who wanted a serious conversation, not some ranting racist. I won’t make that mistake again.

For someone wanting a "serious conversation" you will not be considered "serious" if you can't even admit that there never were 46 million uninsured which was one of
several lies told by Obama ad admitted to by Gruber when he said it was the stupidity of people evidently like you !

 

[Howard Roark]

Think that if it gives you comfort. In RealityLand, you are boring, dull, uninteresting, bland, tedious, tiresome, trite....

View attachment 228566

I believe the term you're hunting so hard for, is erudite

 

[boedicca]

Think that if it gives you comfort. In RealityLand, you are boring, dull, uninteresting, bland, tedious, tiresome, trite....

View attachment 228566

I believe the term you're hunting so hard for, is erudite

Nope. I'm quite certain that is not the term.

 

[joaquinmiller]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

No thank you.

The first biggest problem we have is government interference in the health care markets. It's not a coinkydink that health care inflation has sky rocketed as government's share has increased.

The second biggest problem is that consumers are shielded from prices due to routine and maintenance care being co-mingled with catastrophic insurance. Routine and maintenance care end up being overpriced prepaid services masking as insurance. I'm convinced that without the insurance overhead and cost plus distorted incentives for the insurance middleman - supplier duopology, that what we currently pay as co-pays would be what routine appointments and prescriptions would cost without insurance.

So - we should break up the insurance bundles. Consumers should be free to choose catastrophic care only and to self-fund routine care or subscribe to a concierge service...or other models as the market is free to experiment.

One size fits all is one size fits none.

I don't get it. They've finally figured out that employer provided health care is a bad idea. It's made us virtual slaves to our employers, dependent on them for our very health. And the only fix they can come up with is to shift the dependency to government.

I've often said the the underlying ideology of Progressivism turns people into slaves. It's actually incredibly reactionary (hence the deceptive branding) as most people throughout history have lived as serfs, slaves or chattel.

Look on the bright side. If conservatives of those eras had their way, most people would still live as serfs, slaves and chattel. Thank progressives.

 

[boedicca]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

No thank you.

The first biggest problem we have is government interference in the health care markets. It's not a coinkydink that health care inflation has sky rocketed as government's share has increased.

The second biggest problem is that consumers are shielded from prices due to routine and maintenance care being co-mingled with catastrophic insurance. Routine and maintenance care end up being overpriced prepaid services masking as insurance. I'm convinced that without the insurance overhead and cost plus distorted incentives for the insurance middleman - supplier duopology, that what we currently pay as co-pays would be what routine appointments and prescriptions would cost without insurance.

So - we should break up the insurance bundles. Consumers should be free to choose catastrophic care only and to self-fund routine care or subscribe to a concierge service...or other models as the market is free to experiment.

One size fits all is one size fits none.

I don't get it. They've finally figured out that employer provided health care is a bad idea. It's made us virtual slaves to our employers, dependent on them for our very health. And the only fix they can come up with is to shift the dependency to government.

I've often said the the underlying ideology of Progressivism turns people into slaves. It's actually incredibly reactionary (hence the deceptive branding) as most people throughout history have lived as serfs, slaves or chattel.

Look on the bright side. If conservatives of those eras had their way, most people would still live as serfs, slaves and chattel. Thank progressives.

Don't know much about history, do you bub?

The term conservative under authoritarian regimes is misnomer.

 

[joaquinmiller]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

No thank you.

The first biggest problem we have is government interference in the health care markets. It's not a coinkydink that health care inflation has sky rocketed as government's share has increased.

The second biggest problem is that consumers are shielded from prices due to routine and maintenance care being co-mingled with catastrophic insurance. Routine and maintenance care end up being overpriced prepaid services masking as insurance. I'm convinced that without the insurance overhead and cost plus distorted incentives for the insurance middleman - supplier duopology, that what we currently pay as co-pays would be what routine appointments and prescriptions would cost without insurance.

So - we should break up the insurance bundles. Consumers should be free to choose catastrophic care only and to self-fund routine care or subscribe to a concierge service...or other models as the market is free to experiment.

One size fits all is one size fits none.

I don't get it. They've finally figured out that employer provided health care is a bad idea. It's made us virtual slaves to our employers, dependent on them for our very health. And the only fix they can come up with is to shift the dependency to government.

I've often said the the underlying ideology of Progressivism turns people into slaves. It's actually incredibly reactionary (hence the deceptive branding) as most people throughout history have lived as serfs, slaves or chattel.

Look on the bright side. If conservatives of those eras had their way, most people would still live as serfs, slaves and chattel. Thank progressives.

Don't know much about history, do you bub?

The term conservative under authoritarian regimes is misnomer.

Conservatives are always dragged into the future, kicking and screaming. Then and now.

 

[boedicca]

No thank you.

The first biggest problem we have is government interference in the health care markets. It's not a coinkydink that health care inflation has sky rocketed as government's share has increased.

The second biggest problem is that consumers are shielded from prices due to routine and maintenance care being co-mingled with catastrophic insurance. Routine and maintenance care end up being overpriced prepaid services masking as insurance. I'm convinced that without the insurance overhead and cost plus distorted incentives for the insurance middleman - supplier duopology, that what we currently pay as co-pays would be what routine appointments and prescriptions would cost without insurance.

So - we should break up the insurance bundles. Consumers should be free to choose catastrophic care only and to self-fund routine care or subscribe to a concierge service...or other models as the market is free to experiment.

One size fits all is one size fits none.

I don't get it. They've finally figured out that employer provided health care is a bad idea. It's made us virtual slaves to our employers, dependent on them for our very health. And the only fix they can come up with is to shift the dependency to government.

I've often said the the underlying ideology of Progressivism turns people into slaves. It's actually incredibly reactionary (hence the deceptive branding) as most people throughout history have lived as serfs, slaves or chattel.

Look on the bright side. If conservatives of those eras had their way, most people would still live as serfs, slaves and chattel. Thank progressives.

Don't know much about history, do you bub?

The term conservative under authoritarian regimes is misnomer.

Conservatives are always dragged into the future, kicking and screaming. Then and now.

Nope. Conservatives want to preserve what is effective and healthy. Progs want to destroy it all.

 

[dblack]

No thank you.

The first biggest problem we have is government interference in the health care markets. It's not a coinkydink that health care inflation has sky rocketed as government's share has increased.

The second biggest problem is that consumers are shielded from prices due to routine and maintenance care being co-mingled with catastrophic insurance. Routine and maintenance care end up being overpriced prepaid services masking as insurance. I'm convinced that without the insurance overhead and cost plus distorted incentives for the insurance middleman - supplier duopology, that what we currently pay as co-pays would be what routine appointments and prescriptions would cost without insurance.

So - we should break up the insurance bundles. Consumers should be free to choose catastrophic care only and to self-fund routine care or subscribe to a concierge service...or other models as the market is free to experiment.

One size fits all is one size fits none.

I don't get it. They've finally figured out that employer provided health care is a bad idea. It's made us virtual slaves to our employers, dependent on them for our very health. And the only fix they can come up with is to shift the dependency to government.

I've often said the the underlying ideology of Progressivism turns people into slaves. It's actually incredibly reactionary (hence the deceptive branding) as most people throughout history have lived as serfs, slaves or chattel.

Look on the bright side. If conservatives of those eras had their way, most people would still urelive as serfs, slaves and chattel. Thank progressives.

Don't know much about history, do you bub?
The term conservative under authoritarian regimes is misnomer.

Conservatives are always dragged into the future, kicking and screaming. Then and now.

Yep. And sometimes, they were right. The future is what we make it. State health care isn't a future I want to see.

 

[Howard Roark]

Nope. Conservatives want to preserve what is effective and healthy. Progs want to destroy it all.

Nope. Conservatives only want to talk about what is effective and healthy, and work to do just the opposite.

 

[boedicca]

Nope. Conservatives want to preserve what is effective and healthy. Progs want to destroy it all.

Nope. Conservatives only want to talk about what is effective and healthy, and work to do just the opposite.

You again? heh

 

[Howard Roark]

You again? heh

Is this a memory lapse, or willful ignorance. It's getting hard to tell