Health Care - we gotta fix this shit...

[francoHFW]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper. So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

 

[dblack]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

 

[Rustic]

Didn't run your subsidy, did you?

Just using a Panama City zip code for the hell of it and without knowing what your zip and ages of you, your wife and children, used 50 for you and your wife and put you kids in their teens this is the estimated subsidy you'd receive for $75,000.

You are likely eligible for financial help
Based on the information you provided, your income is equal to 255% of the poverty level. This means you are likely eligible for financial help through the Health Insurance Marketplace. An estimate of your cost for coverage and amount of financial help in 2019 are provided below. To find out your actual amount of financial help and to get coverage, you must go to Healthcare.gov or your state’s Health Insurance Marketplace.

Estimated financial help:
$1,576 per month ($18,907 per year)
as a premium tax credit. This covers 75% of the monthly costs.
Your cost for a silver plan:
$532 per month ($6,383 per year)
in premiums (which equals 8.51% of your household income).
The most you have to pay for a silver plan:
8.51% of income for the second-lowest cost silver plan
Without financial help, your silver plan would cost:
$2,107 per month ($25,289 per year)


Health Insurance Marketplace Calculator

The problem is healthcare costs so ridiculous prices... We need to regulate insurers and hospitals big health and big Pharma. And get more competition in the exchanges and I have nothing against National exchanges... However, 75% of those on the exchanges pay less than $100 a month after subsidies. Republicans believe a whole lot of garbage about Obamacare as well as everything else....

Keep Obamacare to yourselves... The rest of us want nothing to do with it

We don't care do what you want.

Then quit trying to get us to pay for other peoples shit...
Fuck the collective

But you admit there are nescessities where it’s ok to get you to pay for other people’s shit, like military for example.

So liberals (and SmokeALib) are saying that healthcare is a necessity. Doesn’t seem too unreasonable, does it?

Military/police/fire are an necessary, All of the socialist entitlement programs are not An necessary.
Me and millions just like me want no part of socialize medicine

 

[Rustic]

Guess what, silly doops, ACA is going nowhere. Four more red States voted for Medicaid expansion, and the Democrats one the house and will never pass repeal. So Tinker with it, fix what you want, but give it up. The high cost of premiums when it started was simply recognizing the actual costs of healthcare after the GOP Let It Go Wild for decades. Now premiums are coming down, despite total GOP sabotage. The GOP is a disgrace and never would pass anything to cut profits for their cronies in big house and big Pharma...

That is why any type of socialized medicine should be an opt in, Automatically excluding those that do opt in...

 

[francoHFW]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

ACA is as good as we're going to do... At least until Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate... We canTinker ACA enough that it will be just about as good as nationalizing it.

 

[Rustic]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

ACA is as good as we're going to do... At least until Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate... We canTinker ACA enough that it will be just about as good as nationalizing it.

Make it an “opt in” and the country will support it...

 

[dblack]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

ACA is as good as we're going to do... At least until Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate... We canTinker ACA enough that it will be just about as good as nationalizing it.

Before you jump into a thread and make an idiot of yourself, try reading the OP. We're not discussing ACA. We're talking about the suggestion that we should adopt single payer, not ACA.

 

[francoHFW]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

ACA is as good as we're going to do... At least until Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate... We canTinker ACA enough that it will be just about as good as nationalizing it.

Make it an “opt in” and the country will support it...

However, Republicans will block it forever. There are many major issues that the country supports and the GOP blocks, because they are totally bought off by big Health big Pharma Big Oil NRA slash gun manufacturers, big everything, duh, super duper.

 

[francoHFW]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

ACA is as good as we're going to do... At least until Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate... We canTinker ACA enough that it will be just about as good as nationalizing it.

Before you jump into a thread and make an idiot of yourself, try reading the OP. We're not discussing ACA. We're talking about the suggestion that we should adopt single payer, not ACA.

Just trying to bring you back to reality.... Carry on.

 

[AntonToo]

IMHO the only real fix is to go back to what we had 50 years, you paid your doctor out of your pocket for routine treatment and most prescriptions cost less than $10. Insurance only kicked in if you were hospitalized. We did not expect insurance, or medicare, or Medicaid to pay for routine stuff, and the poor got treatment at the ER or a free clinic. It worked for generations.

Do you not understand that insurance policy that simply covers routine treatments and sub-$10 prescriptions would cost alsmot nothing and be USEFUL TO NO ONE?

I think you misunderstood the post. Redfish is saying that those things should be paid for out-of-pocket, and not via insurance. Insurance should only be for unforeseen calamities, not routine expenses.

But that won't bring prices down.

 

[francoHFW]

IMHO the only real fix is to go back to what we had 50 years, you paid your doctor out of your pocket for routine treatment and most prescriptions cost less than $10. Insurance only kicked in if you were hospitalized. We did not expect insurance, or medicare, or Medicaid to pay for routine stuff, and the poor got treatment at the ER or a free clinic. It worked for generations.

Do you not understand that insurance policy that simply covers routine treatments and sub-$10 prescriptions would cost alsmot nothing and be USEFUL TO NO ONE?

I think you misunderstood the post. Redfish is saying that those things should be paid for out-of-pocket, and not via insurance. Insurance should only be for unforeseen calamities, not routine expenses.

But that won't bring prices down.

transparent competition and further regulation and tinkering will bring down prices. It takes time.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

Welcome to the Democrat Party you traitor!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I took my wife to the emergency room. A couple with no insurance waiting next to us was asked for 0 dollars.
We have a so-called Cadillac insurance plan through my employer.
I was required to pay 100 dollars for the visit.

That 100 dollars you paid was to cover that other couple with no insurance, dumbass!

 

[AntonToo]

But you admit there are nescessities where it’s ok to get you to pay for other people’s shit, like military for example.

So liberals (and SmokeALib) are saying that healthcare is a necessity. Doesn’t seem too unreasonable, does it?

It's not unreasonable as a proposition. But expecting to enact it with a simple majority vote in Congress is unreasonable. Such radical change to society requires real consensus, it requires more than slim majority support. It requires amending the Constitution. If we try to force such a change without that consensus, we'll just create more problems than we solve.

I agree a large majority coming together to create a stable health care system covering all would be immensely helpful, but doing it by a slim parliamentary majority is not in itself unreasonable. A Constitutional Amendment is certainly not a requirement, as the Constitution isn't supposed to mandate policy aims. All told, the ACA didn't suffer because there was something wrong with it, but because there was a mouth-breathing propaganda campaign to frighten the rubes aiming at destroying the legislation. Now that this "consensus" is growing, the Goobers find it hard to repeal the law. Yes, progress is obviously not a straight line, and it's even more difficult since the ACA had to deal with, and tried to preserve, a deeply dysfunctional health care system to begin with.

So, yes, it's hard, but in the end there won't be strike through the Gordian Knot any time soon, and all there is is the arc of history bending toward justice, toward the reasonable, and the hard work of moving that darned boulder up the hill to get it done.

wrong ACA failed because it was based on taxing the shit out of young people to pay for medicine for old people.

IMHO the only real fix is to go back to what we had 50 years, you paid your doctor out of your pocket for routine treatment and most prescriptions cost less than $10. Insurance only kicked in if you were hospitalized. We did not expect insurance, or medicare, or Medicaid to pay for routine stuff, and the poor got treatment at the ER or a free clinic. It worked for generations.

Lol

Do you not understand that insurance policy that simply covers routine treatments and sub-$10 prescriptions would cost alsmot nothing and be USEFUL TO NO ONE?

actually that is exactly what obozocare was trying to do, except that there are no prescriptions under $10.

I understand that you are mentally challenged but you kind of made my point. when insurance did not cover routine visits and cheap prescription, the premiums were small, and it only paid when you had a major illness requiring hospitalization. Now, we want insurance to cover everything. That, my little friend, is the problem. there aint no free lunch.

No moron, Obamacare was certainly not trying to do that, in fact it was doing the EXACT OPPOSITE, by requiring comprehensive coverage, not meaningless insurance that bailed on people when they needed it most.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

Complex issue. But you are correct. A 'for profit' healthcare system doesn't work.

How do people that are retired have 5% taken from their paychecks? Do self employed people pay 10%? Medicare fraud is perpetrated by providers, not patients.

Start with a public option, when anyone can purchase Medicare plans to rival private insurance. It will help Medicare, and it will be a great option for younger/healthier people who don't use doctors/meds at the same rate as others.

You do realize that Medicare has both deductibles and coinsurance. Plus the premiums would have to be much, much higher for women to make it work, and you know we can't have that!

.

 

[Flopper]

Your private insurance corp governs you ...

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

ACA is as good as we're going to do... At least until Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate... We canTinker ACA enough that it will be just about as good as nationalizing it.

Before you jump into a thread and make an idiot of yourself, try reading the OP. We're not discussing ACA. We're talking about the suggestion that we should adopt single payer, not ACA.

Single Payer has a lot of advantages but getting there would be difficult if not impossible without a phased approached.

The easiest and most painless way to get to single payer is to simply extend the Medicare minimum age requirement. For example, we could extend the minimum age in 5 year increments every 5 years. In 50 years, everyone over 20 would be on single payer. The final step would be to pickup the children and remainder of the population. With the exception of supplemental insurance, Medicare would replace essential all private insurance, Medicaid, and most VA healthcare. This plan would give the insurance companies, the government and the healthcare industry time to make changes in the business model.

With Single Payer, everyone is covered. It doesn’t matter if you are rich or you are poor. In a single payer system, health care is a right instead of being treated as a privilege.

Rates are the same. Patients don’t need to worry about a doctors deciding to charge them $320 per hour for a visit because their health insurance allows for that maximum. There aren’t different rates for people who are insured vs. those who are uninsured either. Rate consistency allows medical providers to know exactly what they’ll receive and patients know they will receive the care they need.

Cost go down in single payer system. Serious diseases can be caught earlier. Economies of scale reduce costs. Healthcare billing and claim processing is simplified. Insurance costs are eliminated. Administrative overhead (also known as “transaction costs”) consumes one-third of current health spending in the U.S. which can be all but eliminated.

Today Healthcare providers compete by eliminating completion through mergers, acquisitions, and formation of networks. Making cost comparison is more often than not impossible under our current system. If you ask almost any healthcare provider what your cost will be for a costly procedure you are most likely going here it all depends. In many cases, hospitals will refuse to provide you with costs figures.

Contrary to popular belief, single payer provides more opportunity for competition than our current healthcare system. In a single payer system, providers compete based on quality of service provided and features they offer that the competition does not offer.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No. They don't. They can't have me arrested if I don't want to buy what they're selling. The government can. That's a profound difference. You can't just pretend it isn't real.

ACA is no longer mandatory and you can be as stupid and paranoid as you want, super duper.

We're discussing the proposal to nationalize health insurance. Try to follow along.

So shut the hell up and let the informed adults Tinker with it as they will forever, just like in every other modern country...

Uh, how's about you go fuck your ignorant self?

ACA is as good as we're going to do... At least until Democrats get 60 votes in the Senate... We canTinker ACA enough that it will be just about as good as nationalizing it.

Before you jump into a thread and make an idiot of yourself, try reading the OP. We're not discussing ACA. We're talking about the suggestion that we should adopt single payer, not ACA.

Single Payer has a lot of advantages but getting there would be difficult if not impossible without a phased approached.

The easiest and most painless way to get to single payer is to simply extend the Medicare minimum age requirement. For example, we could extend the minimum age in 5 year increments every 5 years. In 50 years, everyone over 20 would be on single payer. The final step would be to pickup the children and remainder of the population. With the exception of supplemental insurance, Medicare would replace essential all private insurance, Medicaid, and most VA healthcare. This plan would give the insurance companies, the government and the healthcare industry time to make changes in the business model.

With Single Payer, everyone is covered. It doesn’t matter if you are rich or you are poor. In a single payer system, health care is a right instead of being treated as a privilege.

Rates are the same. Patients don’t need to worry about a doctors deciding to charge them $320 per hour for a visit because their health insurance allows for that maximum. There aren’t different rates for people who are insured vs. those who are uninsured either. Rate consistency allows medical providers to know exactly what they’ll receive and patients know they will receive the care they need.

Cost go down in single payer system. Serious diseases can be caught earlier. Economies of scale reduce costs. Healthcare billing and claim processing is simplified. Insurance costs are eliminated. Administrative overhead (also known as “transaction costs”) consumes one-third of current health spending in the U.S. which can be all but eliminated.

Today Healthcare providers compete by eliminating completion through mergers, acquisitions, and formation of networks. Making cost comparison is more often than not impossible under our current system. If you ask almost any healthcare provider what your cost will be for a costly procedure you are most likely going here it all depends. In many cases, hospitals will refuse to provide with costs figures.

Contrary to popular belief, single payer provides more opportunity for competition than our current healthcare system. In a single payer system, providers compete based on quality of service provided and features they offer that the competition does not offer.

You need to 'splain this better Lucy! It makes no sense as written.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'm a conservative.
But even I realize that our health Care system is screwed.
Pharmacutical companies are gouging us out of our retirement savings.
Insurance companies are gouging us out of our 401k's.
Doctors and hospitals are performing unneeded procedures and prescribing unneeded drugs for profit.
I'm all about profit - but not profit over deceit.
And not profit over the well-being of American citizens.
I always thought the federal government was fundamental for our national defense, and national defense only.
Not any more.
Get rid of Medicare and Medicaid. Both systems are abused and bankrupt.
Have a single payer system. Tack on 5% on our paychecks and have the government have oversight.
Everybody has health care.
I hate to say it, but that's what it's come down to.

You seem so fucking liberal!

 

[LoneLaugher]

I am too a Conservative and agree. Everyone needs quality health CARE, not just a once over & given some drug that has more side effects than it treats just so everyone in the loop gets rich. Dr's don't treat the problems, they treat the symptoms and that's not healthcare.

One of the things I do have a problem with having government regulated healthcare is I don't want them telling me what can be treated or not....although Dr's & Insurance already do that to some degree. I am thinking of the case of the little boy in England that they refused care because of his condition that even a US Dr said he'd do it, but they wouldn't let the boy come for treatment and soon died.

Maybe you should trust the Hippocratic oath.

 

[Rustic]

It's not unreasonable as a proposition. But expecting to enact it with a simple majority vote in Congress is unreasonable. Such radical change to society requires real consensus, it requires more than slim majority support. It requires amending the Constitution. If we try to force such a change without that consensus, we'll just create more problems than we solve.

I agree a large majority coming together to create a stable health care system covering all would be immensely helpful, but doing it by a slim parliamentary majority is not in itself unreasonable. A Constitutional Amendment is certainly not a requirement, as the Constitution isn't supposed to mandate policy aims. All told, the ACA didn't suffer because there was something wrong with it, but because there was a mouth-breathing propaganda campaign to frighten the rubes aiming at destroying the legislation. Now that this "consensus" is growing, the Goobers find it hard to repeal the law. Yes, progress is obviously not a straight line, and it's even more difficult since the ACA had to deal with, and tried to preserve, a deeply dysfunctional health care system to begin with.

So, yes, it's hard, but in the end there won't be strike through the Gordian Knot any time soon, and all there is is the arc of history bending toward justice, toward the reasonable, and the hard work of moving that darned boulder up the hill to get it done.

wrong ACA failed because it was based on taxing the shit out of young people to pay for medicine for old people.

IMHO the only real fix is to go back to what we had 50 years, you paid your doctor out of your pocket for routine treatment and most prescriptions cost less than $10. Insurance only kicked in if you were hospitalized. We did not expect insurance, or medicare, or Medicaid to pay for routine stuff, and the poor got treatment at the ER or a free clinic. It worked for generations.

Lol

Do you not understand that insurance policy that simply covers routine treatments and sub-$10 prescriptions would cost alsmot nothing and be USEFUL TO NO ONE?

actually that is exactly what obozocare was trying to do, except that there are no prescriptions under $10.

I understand that you are mentally challenged but you kind of made my point. when insurance did not cover routine visits and cheap prescription, the premiums were small, and it only paid when you had a major illness requiring hospitalization. Now, we want insurance to cover everything. That, my little friend, is the problem. there aint no free lunch.

No moron, Obamacare was certainly not trying to do that, in fact it was doing the EXACT OPPOSITE, by requiring comprehensive coverage, not meaningless insurance that bailed on people when they needed it most.

In other words, it all about control