Healthcare as a human right?

[Oddball]

At the point of a gun, if necessary.

Yes, that's what laws do. Glad you're up to speed.

Which shows you to be the aggressor that you are...The exact thing which laws are supposed to protect peaceful people from.

 

[Oddball]

A right? No.

Something that decent countries make sure it's citizens can affordable access? Yes.

That's fine, and I agree. The question is whether it's something that governments should provide.

If you have a better plan, present it.

I do and we once had it and it worked very well. Its called free enterprise and personal responsibility. We had a health care system in place where costs were low and doctors actually went to the sick in their homes. It worked very well and costs were low enogh that charity could take care of the poor while everyone else could pay for tyeir own healthcare. Then the goverment and insurance companies got into the act bringing nothing to the table but spiraling costs, waste, fraud and corruption. All we have to do is eliminate healthcare insurance altogether by making it illegal and get the goverment to hell out of healthcare altogether by shooting medicare, medicade and every other government bullshit program in the head. Costs will then return to earth because there will be no other choice for the providers. The only ones that will leave are the crooks and frauds which will of course increase qualty too and no crap like the current opioid epidemic etc.

We did. You know what happened? Greed. If you can get that out of the system, I'm listening. We would also have to get wall street out of health care. You want to do that? I'm all on board. Until then, I'm not going to ignore that many can not afford to go see a doctor when they need to.

Gubmint needs to get out of health care....They're the biggest aggressors and monopolists in the marketplace.

 

[Ray9]

The United States is in the midst of an ideological cold civil war. One side wants to right a ship that has been listing to the left while the other wants to fundamentally reconstruct the foundation of a democracy based on individual liberty.

One way to enlist revolutionaries is to convince them that a central authority will act on their behalf to ensure absolute equality across the board. A quick study of socialist history reveals the destruction this kind of wrong headedness leaves in its wake. It's an old story but it always appeals to new groups of the gullible.

This is our contemporary threat-a potential civil war pitting personal liberty against centrally planned and dictated bureaucratic equality contingent on government dependence eg. Medicare for All or some other scheme to tether the individual to the umbilical post of concentrated power.

It's a very old story.

 

[pknopp]

You go to the hospital and you get treated. The same hospital everyone else goes to. They don't turn anyone away.

You as the taxpayer pay for that anyway. It's cheaper if people could go to a doctor before they have to go to the hospital.

Not true. Hospitals have indigent treatment costs calculated into their finances, and most of this is covered by charity.

No it isn't.


Medicaid spent over $177 billion on hospital care in fiscal year 2017. A quarter of these payments were supplemental payments—lump sum payments that are not tied to a specific patient's care.

Disproportionate share hospital payments are one type of supplemental payment. To help offset the costs for hospital services, these payments are given to hospitals that serve a high proportion of Medicaid and uninsured patients.

Medicaid: States' Use and Distribution of Supplemental Payments to Hospitals

How many billions did you raise?

 

[task0778]

Rights ought not to be about what you can get for free. Which isn't really free, cuz somebody else pays for it.

 

[Diver Diva]

You go to the hospital and you get treated. The same hospital everyone else goes to. They don't turn anyone away.

You as the taxpayer pay for that anyway. It's cheaper if people could go to a doctor before they have to go to the hospital.

Not true. Hospitals have indigent treatment costs calculated into their finances, and most of this is covered by charity.

No it isn't.


Medicaid spent over $177 billion on hospital care in fiscal year 2017. A quarter of these payments were supplemental payments—lump sum payments that are not tied to a specific patient's care.

Disproportionate share hospital payments are one type of supplemental payment. To help offset the costs for hospital services, these payments are given to hospitals that serve a high proportion of Medicaid and uninsured patients.

Medicaid: States' Use and Distribution of Supplemental Payments to Hospitals

How many billions did you raise?

Medicaid doesn't pay doctors enough, which is why most doctors only accept a limited number of medicaid patients if any at all. Put every American on government health insurance and watch the costs skyrocket. What you will end up with will be long lines and lower quality care.

 

[Flash]

Greedy shithead assholes think it is their "right" to have somebody else pay their bills just because they are alive. Despicable!

 

[pknopp]

You go to the hospital and you get treated. The same hospital everyone else goes to. They don't turn anyone away.

You as the taxpayer pay for that anyway. It's cheaper if people could go to a doctor before they have to go to the hospital.

Not true. Hospitals have indigent treatment costs calculated into their finances, and most of this is covered by charity.

No it isn't.


Medicaid spent over $177 billion on hospital care in fiscal year 2017. A quarter of these payments were supplemental payments—lump sum payments that are not tied to a specific patient's care.

Disproportionate share hospital payments are one type of supplemental payment. To help offset the costs for hospital services, these payments are given to hospitals that serve a high proportion of Medicaid and uninsured patients.

Medicaid: States' Use and Distribution of Supplemental Payments to Hospitals

How many billions did you raise?

Medicaid doesn't pay doctors enough, which is why most doctors only accept a limited number of medicaid patients if any at all. Put every American on government health insurance and watch the costs skyrocket. What you will end up with will be long lines and lower quality care.

Other countries are doing fine. No system is perfect but no system where some can see a doctor and some can not should ever be accepted.

 

[Diver Diva]

Other countries are doing fine. No system is perfect but no system where some can see a doctor and some can not should ever be accepted.

Really? Is that why they come here for healthcare?

 

[pknopp]

Other countries are doing fine. No system is perfect but no system where some can see a doctor and some can not should ever be accepted.

Really? Is that why they come here for healthcare?

Rand Paul went to Canada and that is not what I said. We have great health care for some, none for others. That should not be acceptable.

 

[Oddball]

Other countries are doing fine. No system is perfect but no system where some can see a doctor and some can not should ever be accepted.

The grass is greener and bandwagon fallacy are not arguments.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Healthcare is not a human right.

Yes, it is.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There are plenty of free clinics for that.

Clearly there are not, as indigent costs remain huge, people continue to receive inefficient primary care at ERs at unnecessarily excessive cost, and medical costs remain the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country. Please try to keep your comments grounded in reality, not fantasy.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Medicaid doesn't pay doctors enough,

And neither does private insurance. Just ask the doctors!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Really? Is that why they come here for healthcare?

Stupid myth. In what the rest of us call "reality", Canadian residents enjoy better health outcomes across the board than US residents, while spending much less per capita on healthcare costs.

It is their top point of national pride: Poll: Canadians are most proud of universal medicare

Canadians overwhelmingly support public health care:

"A new poll conducted by the Toronto-based Nanos Research points to overwhelming support — 86.2 percent — for strengthening public health care rather than expanding for-profit services"

New poll shows Canadians overwhelmingly support public health care – Healthcare-NOW!

 

[Dick Foster]

A right? No.

Something that decent countries make sure it's citizens can affordable access? Yes.

That's fine, and I agree. The question is whether it's something that governments should provide.

If you have a better plan, present it.

I do and we once had it and it worked very well. Its called free enterprise and personal responsibility. We had a health care system in place where costs were low and doctors actually went to the sick in their homes. It worked very well and costs were low enogh that charity could take care of the poor while everyone else could pay for tyeir own healthcare. Then the goverment and insurance companies got into the act bringing nothing to the table but spiraling costs, waste, fraud and corruption. All we have to do is eliminate healthcare insurance altogether by making it illegal and get the goverment to hell out of healthcare altogether by shooting medicare, medicade and every other government bullshit program in the head. Costs will then return to earth because there will be no other choice for the providers. The only ones that will leave are the crooks and frauds which will of course increase qualty too and no crap like the current opioid epidemic etc.

We did. You know what happened? Greed. If you can get that out of the system, I'm listening. We would also have to get wall street out of health care. You want to do that? I'm all on board. Until then, I'm not going to ignore that many can not afford to go see a doctor when they need to.

Well eliminating the needless deep pockets just naturally eliminates the greed from the system. Just like keeping shit and filth cleaned up eliminates problems with flies and the spread of diseases.

 

[Oddball]

Healthcare is not a human right.

Yes, it is.

You have NFI what a "right", properly defined, is.

Real rights don't involve compelling people to perform services for others.

 

[Dick Foster]

You go to the hospital and you get treated. The same hospital everyone else goes to. They don't turn anyone away.

You as the taxpayer pay for that anyway. It's cheaper if people could go to a doctor before they have to go to the hospital.

Not true. Hospitals have indigent treatment costs calculated into their finances, and most of this is covered by charity.

No it isn't.


Medicaid spent over $177 billion on hospital care in fiscal year 2017. A quarter of these payments were supplemental payments—lump sum payments that are not tied to a specific patient's care.

Disproportionate share hospital payments are one type of supplemental payment. To help offset the costs for hospital services, these payments are given to hospitals that serve a high proportion of Medicaid and uninsured patients.

Medicaid: States' Use and Distribution of Supplemental Payments to Hospitals

How many billions did you raise?

Medicaid doesn't pay doctors enough, which is why most doctors only accept a limited number of medicaid patients if any at all. Put every American on government health insurance and watch the costs skyrocket. What you will end up with will be long lines and lower quality care.

Other countries are doing fine. No system is perfect but no system where some can see a doctor and some can not should ever be accepted.

I have a little story about that. I once had an old british couple as landlords. We became friends and I used to be the one that attested to the fact that they were still alive so they could contine to receive their pension payments from Britain. We argued the gubberment healthcare argument often. Then one day Dois, the old lady came down with a massive brain tumor. She was checked into the local hospital where her brain tumor was sucessfully removed and Doris recoverd fully. I asked Arthur, the old man what her odds would have been in the British public healthcare program. He replied that she would have been allowed to die. After that, we stopped arguing about the supposed virtue of goverment provided free public health programs.

 

[pknopp]

You as the taxpayer pay for that anyway. It's cheaper if people could go to a doctor before they have to go to the hospital.

Not true. Hospitals have indigent treatment costs calculated into their finances, and most of this is covered by charity.

No it isn't.


Medicaid spent over $177 billion on hospital care in fiscal year 2017. A quarter of these payments were supplemental payments—lump sum payments that are not tied to a specific patient's care.

Disproportionate share hospital payments are one type of supplemental payment. To help offset the costs for hospital services, these payments are given to hospitals that serve a high proportion of Medicaid and uninsured patients.

Medicaid: States' Use and Distribution of Supplemental Payments to Hospitals

How many billions did you raise?

Medicaid doesn't pay doctors enough, which is why most doctors only accept a limited number of medicaid patients if any at all. Put every American on government health insurance and watch the costs skyrocket. What you will end up with will be long lines and lower quality care.

Other countries are doing fine. No system is perfect but no system where some can see a doctor and some can not should ever be accepted.

I have a little story about that. I once had an old british couple as landlords. We became friends and i used to be the one that attested to the fact that they were still alive so they could contine to receive their pension payments from Britain. We argued the gubberment healthcare argument often. Then one day Dois, the old lady came down with a massive brain tumor. She was checked into the local hospital where her brain tumor was sucessfully removed and Doris recoverd fully. I asked Arthur, the old man what her odds would have been the the British public healthcare program. He replied that she would have been allowed to die. After that, we stopped arguing about the supposed virtue of goverment provided free public health programs.

Anecdotal stories are not worth the time it takes to write them out.

Surgery to remove your brain tumour | Brain tumour (primary) | Cancer Research UK

 

[dblack]

A right? No.

Something that decent countries make sure it's citizens can affordable access? Yes.

That's fine, and I agree. The question is whether it's something that governments should provide.

If you have a better plan, present it.

Again, the question is whether health care is something government should be in charge of. My answer to that question is "no". So, a better plan is for government to not do that.

Society can solve most of its problems without resorting to legal mandates. Health care is no different.