Healthcare as a human right?

[dblack]

How good?

Good enough that we arent sending people to ERs for primary care, and good enough that it ceases being the number one cause of bankruptcy in our country. For starters.

So, that's just for 'starters'? What then?

What portion of our needs should government provide?

 

[pknopp]

A right? No.

Something that decent countries make sure it's citizens can affordable access? Yes.

That's fine, and I agree. The question is whether it's something that governments should provide.

If you have a better plan, present it.

Again, the question is whether health care is something government should be in charge of. My answer to that question is "no". So, a better plan is for government to not do that.

Society can solve most of its problems without resorting to legal mandates. Health care is no different.

Yeah well, until someone comes up with this plan I'm sticking to my position.

 

[Norman]

The notion that healthcare is a human right is gaining traction in United States and perhaps we should explore what that entails. The perception does not say that health is a human right and that’s an important distinction. Health is something that is dependent on a complex set of circumstances some under the control of the individual, some not.

A right is something granted to an individual requiring other individuals to honor as morally good and justified in the concept of its benefit to all from the weakest to the strongest. It’s kind of a legal precept of the Golden Rule. But rights and health are two very different things and there is ample confusion in the air surrounding our democracy.

What happens when one person’s right infringes on the right of another person? If one person smokes and that smoke damages the lungs of another person then the right of that other person to health should supersede the right of the person to smoke and it does in our society. But the smoker’s lungs are damaged and the healthcare needed to treat that damage is an infringement on rights of the individual who does not smoke because smoking and not smoking are under the control of both individuals.

So if the nose of one individual is thumbed at personal responsibility for self-gratification, how can that be a human right to force the others to pay for healthcare? Not that most Americans want to restrict the enjoyment and freedom of others; most say to each his own. But if Joe six-pack goes home every day and puts away twelve cans of sixteen ounce Budweisers, how can Joe’s human right to healthcare require someone else to pay for the carnage to his heart and liver?

This is the problem with defining healthcare as a human right. This is why Venezuela, once a rich and honorable country, is a failed state. The expense is prohibitive and healthcare workers expect to be paid not work for peanuts because some central authority dictates it. Healthcare quality will deteriorate quickly if healthcare is declared to be a human right.

There is no Horn of Plenty that exists on its own in the real world. It exists in Venezuela and Cuba and maybe some should go to those places and experience it. They will likely define healthcare differently.

It is not.

And it is certainly not an American idea.

 

[dblack]

A right? No.

Something that decent countries make sure it's citizens can affordable access? Yes.

That's fine, and I agree. The question is whether it's something that governments should provide.

If you have a better plan, present it.

Again, the question is whether health care is something government should be in charge of. My answer to that question is "no". So, a better plan is for government to not do that.

Society can solve most of its problems without resorting to legal mandates. Health care is no different.

Yeah well, until someone comes up with this plan I'm sticking to my position.

Which is, essentially, that if you can't get people to do what you want voluntarily, you'll force them to do it with a law. That's an abuse of government. It's not there to arbitrarily dictate to society.

 

[pknopp]

A right? No.

Something that decent countries make sure it's citizens can affordable access? Yes.

That's fine, and I agree. The question is whether it's something that governments should provide.

If you have a better plan, present it.

Again, the question is whether health care is something government should be in charge of. My answer to that question is "no". So, a better plan is for government to not do that.

Society can solve most of its problems without resorting to legal mandates. Health care is no different.

Yeah well, until someone comes up with this plan I'm sticking to my position.

Which is, essentially, that if you can't get people to do what you want, you'll force them to do it with a law. That's an abuse of government. It's not there to arbitrarily dictate to society.

I do not quibble on the idea that I want everyone to affordably be able to see a doctor when need be. You act like I am or that I'm afraid to defend that position. I am not.

Call it whatever you want.

 

[dblack]

That's fine, and I agree. The question is whether it's something that governments should provide.

If you have a better plan, present it.

Again, the question is whether health care is something government should be in charge of. My answer to that question is "no". So, a better plan is for government to not do that.

Society can solve most of its problems without resorting to legal mandates. Health care is no different.

Yeah well, until someone comes up with this plan I'm sticking to my position.

Which is, essentially, that if you can't get people to do what you want, you'll force them to do it with a law. That's an abuse of government. It's not there to arbitrarily dictate to society.

I do not quibble on the idea that I want everyone to affordably be able to see a doctor when need be. You act like I am or that I'm afraid to defend that position. I am not.

Not sure what you're going on about here. I suspect we merely disagree on the purpose of government. I see its purpose as very limited - primarily, it should protect our freedom to create the kind of society we want - voluntarily. Otherwise it should stay out of the way. You seem to be going on the premise that government is an all-purpose tool to shape society. That's what I reject. I think that's an abuse of government.

 

[BS Filter]

Healthcare is not a human right.

Yes, it is.

Nope. Self defense, religion, free speech, and pursuit of happiness are human rights. If healthcare is a human right, why isn't having a big screen TV a human right?

 

[pknopp]

If you have a better plan, present it.

Again, the question is whether health care is something government should be in charge of. My answer to that question is "no". So, a better plan is for government to not do that.

Society can solve most of its problems without resorting to legal mandates. Health care is no different.

Yeah well, until someone comes up with this plan I'm sticking to my position.

Which is, essentially, that if you can't get people to do what you want, you'll force them to do it with a law. That's an abuse of government. It's not there to arbitrarily dictate to society.

I do not quibble on the idea that I want everyone to affordably be able to see a doctor when need be. You act like I am or that I'm afraid to defend that position. I am not.

Not sure what you're going on about here. I suspect we merely disagree on the purpose of government. I see its purpose as very limited - primarily, it should protect our freedom to create the kind of society we want - voluntarily. Otherwise it should stay out of the way. You seem to be going on the premise that government is an all-purpose tool to shape society. That's what I reject. I think that's an abuse of government.

Ok

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You have NFI what a "right", properly defined, is.

Of course I do. And basic healthcare is a right.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nope.

Yes.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, that's just for 'starters'? What then?

Then,price controls.

 

[rightwinger]

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet
There is no reason healthcare should not be a right

Anyone who has been seriously sick or injured understands that

 

[BluesLegend]

Doctors will be government slaves so there won't be any good ones. Imagine Americans flying to india to get treatment.

Democrats aim to "nationalize" healthcare.

America's best and brightest will avoid the healthcare industry like the plague. Because Dem's are idiots they never stop and think about the negative affects their dumb ass policies have.

 

[BluesLegend]

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet
There is no reason healthcare should not be a right

Anyone who has been seriously sick or injured understands that

Why don't you Dem's lead by example. All registered Dem's cut a $1,000 check to the government today to provide free healthcare to anyone who can't afford it. Go ahead. No? Yeah we thought not.

 

[pknopp]

Doctors will be government slaves so there won't be any good ones. Imagine Americans flying to india to get treatment.

Democrats aim to "nationalize" healthcare.

America's best and brightest will avoid the healthcare industry like the plague. Because Dem's are idiots they never stop and think about the negative affects their dumb ass policies have.

You suppose they will head for Haiti? Maybe Cuba?

 

[pknopp]

We are the wealthiest nation on the planet
There is no reason healthcare should not be a right

Anyone who has been seriously sick or injured understands that

Why don't you Dem's lead by example. All registered Dem's cut a $1,000 check to the government today to provide free healthcare to anyone who can't afford it. Go ahead. No? Yeah we thought not.

Sounds fair to me if it covers all who can't afford it.

 

[BluesLegend]

Doctors will be government slaves so there won't be any good ones. Imagine Americans flying to india to get treatment.

Democrats aim to "nationalize" healthcare.

America's best and brightest will avoid the healthcare industry like the plague. Because Dem's are idiots they never stop and think about the negative affects their dumb ass policies have.

You suppose they will head for Haiti? Maybe Cuba?

I know doctors who have advised their kids NOT to follow them into the Healthcare field.

 

[pknopp]

Doctors will be government slaves so there won't be any good ones. Imagine Americans flying to india to get treatment.

Democrats aim to "nationalize" healthcare.

America's best and brightest will avoid the healthcare industry like the plague. Because Dem's are idiots they never stop and think about the negative affects their dumb ass policies have.

You suppose they will head for Haiti? Maybe Cuba?

I know doctors who have advised their kids NOT to follow them into the Healthcare field.

If it's Burger King for them then it's lucky they have a dad that is a doctor.

 

[BS Filter]

Nope.

Yes.

Quote my entire post.

 

[my2¢]

I'd like to see healthcare made a human right for prenatal care up through age 17.