Healthcare should not be a PROFIT driven field

[Katzndogz]

In what country other than the United States are block-buster drugs developed and marketed?

Switzerland (Roche and Novartis)
UK (GloxoSmithKline and Astrazeneca)
France (Sanofi)
Germany (Bayer Healthcare)
And these are in the top 10 or so of Drug producing companies in the world. There are plenty more.

Novartis moved their research to the US.
When have any of the others developed block buster drugs?

Pfizer just moved to the UK. They were driven out by taxes.

 

[The Rabbi]

Switzerland (Roche and Novartis)
UK (GloxoSmithKline and Astrazeneca)
France (Sanofi)
Germany (Bayer Healthcare)
And these are in the top 10 or so of Drug producing companies in the world. There are plenty more.

Novartis moved their research to the US.
When have any of the others developed block buster drugs?

Pfizer just moved to the UK. They were driven out by taxes.

they moved their headquarters. I dont know about their research work.

 

[Listening]

Ok. Just to put it bluntly: The ability to save a human life, or vastly improve their life, should NOT be one that is driven by profit.

Whats the answer? Im not sure. People have to get paid for their work, yes. But the HUGE profits being raked in by the pharma companies, hospitals, doctors, etc, at the expense of what?

I recently read of a new pill that can literally cure Hepatitis C. But....the pills are $1,000 each, and a person would need many of them, making the cost prohibitive to insurance companies.

So you have a big pharma company who developed the very expensive pill; And hospitals who can give the very expensive pill; And insurance companies who may have to pay for the pill. And insurance companies don't wanna pay for it.

Just one of many countless examples of how we humans COULD save or help someone.....but, is it profitable? The profit seems to matter more than the end result lately, and it is a bunch of nonsense.

The pure greed of this nation's population is what will destroy us. Not some cavemen in the Middle East.

All businesses exist for ONE REASON and ONE REASON ONLY..... PROFIT. If there is no profit to be made in something, nobody with any modicrum of intelligence goes into business doing it. Medicine/Health Care is the exact same way. That's not a Democrat or Republican thing, that's a COMMON SENSE thing.

As soon as people on the Left begin to comprehend that, and the idea that nothing happens if there is no profit in it, things will begin to turn around. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that day.

Yep. And THAT is why healthcare should not be run by BUSINESS.

If patient A has cancer
And patient B has cancer

And patient A is rich
And patient B is not

Which patient is a doctor most likely to spend time saving?

Helping and saving fellow man should NOT be a decision driven by profit. Your savior, Jesus Christ, would not want us behaving like this towards each other. Would Jesus heal a man based on how much gold he could receive in return?

Well, now that we are professing to speak for Jesus.

Christ would not want the government we have now where we essentially hook people on welfare and goodies and take away their dignity and spirit.

 

[The Rabbi]

All businesses exist for ONE REASON and ONE REASON ONLY..... PROFIT. If there is no profit to be made in something, nobody with any modicrum of intelligence goes into business doing it. Medicine/Health Care is the exact same way. That's not a Democrat or Republican thing, that's a COMMON SENSE thing.

As soon as people on the Left begin to comprehend that, and the idea that nothing happens if there is no profit in it, things will begin to turn around. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that day.

Yep. And THAT is why healthcare should not be run by BUSINESS.

If patient A has cancer
And patient B has cancer

And patient A is rich
And patient B is not

Which patient is a doctor most likely to spend time saving?

Helping and saving fellow man should NOT be a decision driven by profit. Your savior, Jesus Christ, would not want us behaving like this towards each other. Would Jesus heal a man based on how much gold he could receive in return?

Well, now that we are professing to speak for Jesus.

Christ would not want the government we have now where we essentially hook people on welfare and goodies and take away their dignity and spirit.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I recently read of a new pill that can literally cure Hepatitis C. But....the pills are $1,000 each, and a person would need many of them, making the cost prohibitive to insurance companies.

So you have a big pharma company who developed the very expensive pill; And hospitals who can give the very expensive pill; And insurance companies who may have to pay for the pill. And insurance companies don't wanna pay for it.

If they don't spend the money to cure the patients Hepatitis C, that patient will likely continue on & infect others driving profits up further for the healthcare industry. They hate curing people & love treating more sick people. Regulation is required to lower cost & make this country competitive.

That is seriously the dumbest fucking argument I've heard this week, and tends to qualify in that fashion every time some braindead drooler makes it. To start with, it presupposes everyone in the world is the same sort of amoral, self-absorbed asshole you are, but some just happen to be educated and gainfully employed.

Furthermore, anyone who thinks that long-term maintenance medications such as statins are more profitable for a pharmaceutical company than a cure would be is an economic moron. When a new medication comes out under patent, it's pretty pricey in order to make up as much of the cost of development as possible before the patent runs out. If it does something really impressive that nothing else on the market does or does as well, doctors with patients suffering from that condition start prescribing it as much as possible.

But a funny thing happens in a profit-driven industry: that pharmaceutical company's competitors swing into high gear to finish up research on their own medications that produce similar results (because it's highly unlikely that they weren't all rushing to be the first one to bring out a product of that type in the first place). Those meds hit the market, and now the market share that the first company had is divided.

Now, admittedly, those companies are making some serious bank up to this point if their meds are any good at all. But this lasts for a very short time, because the patent runs out. When that happens, every pharmaceutical company out there rolls out the generic equivalent of that medication that they've been developing in anticipation of the end of the patent. Those equivalents are incredibly inexpensive, and while the drug companies still make a profit on them, the margins and totals are much, MUCH lower than they were for the brief period of time that the brand-name was the only game in town. The only people still taking that expensive brand-name are the relative handful who are clinically unable to take the generic. So yeah, if we're talking about maintenance meds, people are going to take them the rest of their lives, but almost certainly in cheap generic form. You think Lipitor is making its drug company anything like the profits it used to now that Atorvastatin is available for $10-$20 a month . . . or often less? Please.

Now let's say that a drug company found a medication that could CURE high cholesterol, rather than simply maintaining it at lower levels. The value of that medication would be exponentially higher to people suffering from that condition than Lipitor was when it first hit the market. EXPONENTIALLY. And just because those people were cured would in no way mean that more sufferers wouldn't turn up daily, ALSO needing that cure. And with something like high cholesterol, many of those stupid bastards who were cured wouldn't bother to make the lifestyle changes necessary to maintain that level of good health, and would screw their cholesterol up again and have to pay for the cure again.

And this is not even taking into account what being the company to invent a cure for XYZ illness would do for that drug company's stock prices.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, now that we are professing to speak for Jesus.

Christ would not want the government we have now where we essentially hook people on welfare and goodies and take away their dignity and spirit.

Wouldn't want it? Why? Because he was clearly a Republican?

What about the good Samaritan? Didn't he help those who others wouldn't help?

As for whether he'd want govt getting people on welfare, no one can really claim anything because hell, welfare didn't exist back then.

 

[Listening]

Well, now that we are professing to speak for Jesus.

Christ would not want the government we have now where we essentially hook people on welfare and goodies and take away their dignity and spirit.

Wouldn't want it? Why? Because he was clearly a Republican?

What about the good Samaritan? Didn't he help those who others wouldn't help?

As for whether he'd want govt getting people on welfare, no one can really claim anything because hell, welfare didn't exist back then.

If it were up to democrats, the good samaritan would have left the wounded Jew, run for office and passed a law requiring you to help strangers.

 

[bripat9643]

In what country other than the United States are block-buster drugs developed and marketed?

Switzerland (Roche and Novartis)
UK (GloxoSmithKline and Astrazeneca)
France (Sanofi)
Germany (Bayer Healthcare)
And these are in the top 10 or so of Drug producing companies in the world. There are plenty more.

Those companies develop all their blockbuster drugs in the U.S. In fact, there's a huge GlaxoSmithKline facility about a block from where I'm working. There's a huge Roche facility about two blocks away. They don't test market their new drugs in their home countries for their home markets. Without the U.S. market, most of these companies will fold up.

 

[bripat9643]

Ok. Just to put it bluntly: The ability to save a human life, or vastly improve their life, should NOT be one that is driven by profit.

Whats the answer? Im not sure. People have to get paid for their work, yes. But the HUGE profits being raked in by the pharma companies, hospitals, doctors, etc, at the expense of what?

I recently read of a new pill that can literally cure Hepatitis C. But....the pills are $1,000 each, and a person would need many of them, making the cost prohibitive to insurance companies.

So you have a big pharma company who developed the very expensive pill; And hospitals who can give the very expensive pill; And insurance companies who may have to pay for the pill. And insurance companies don't wanna pay for it.

Just one of many countless examples of how we humans COULD save or help someone.....but, is it profitable? The profit seems to matter more than the end result lately, and it is a bunch of nonsense.

The pure greed of this nation's population is what will destroy us. Not some cavemen in the Middle East.

All businesses exist for ONE REASON and ONE REASON ONLY..... PROFIT. If there is no profit to be made in something, nobody with any modicrum of intelligence goes into business doing it. Medicine/Health Care is the exact same way. That's not a Democrat or Republican thing, that's a COMMON SENSE thing.

As soon as people on the Left begin to comprehend that, and the idea that nothing happens if there is no profit in it, things will begin to turn around. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that day.

Yep. And THAT is why healthcare should not be run by BUSINESS.

If patient A has cancer
And patient B has cancer

And patient A is rich
And patient B is not

Which patient is a doctor most likely to spend time saving?

Helping and saving fellow man should NOT be a decision driven by profit. Your savior, Jesus Christ, would not want us behaving like this towards each other. Would Jesus heal a man based on how much gold he could receive in return?

So, no matter how much money you have, you shouldn't be able to purchase healthcare any better than what the poorest, most pathetic shlub on the planet can get?

Here's a clue for you, moron: one of the main reasons people work their tails off is to have a better life, and a big part of that better life means better healthcare. The idea that we are all entitled to the same quality of healthcare is as stupid as the idea that we should all earn the same amount of money.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Those companies develop all their blockbuster drugs in the U.S. In fact, there's a huge GlaxoSmithKline facility about a block from where I'm working. There's a huge Roche facility about two blocks away. They don't test market their new drugs in their home countries for their home markets. Without the U.S. market, most of these companies will fold up.

No, they test market their drugs in a place that seems to think it fine for doctors to take back handers to use more expensive drugs. Who wouldn't?

I mean, it's hardly surprising that big multi-national companies interested in making a ton of money love the US market, why? Because there's so much corruption which means there's so much money to be made there.

That doesn't mean these drugs wouldn't get made. It means the US is a market which allows them to make a lot of profit and means other methods of financing drugs are just not needed, because of Americans paying over the odds for everything.

 

[frigidweirdo]

[

So, no matter how much money you have, you shouldn't be able to purchase healthcare any better than what the poorest, most pathetic shlub on the planet can get?

Here's a clue for you, moron: one of the main reasons people work their tails off is to have a better life, and a big part of that better life means better healthcare. The idea that we are all entitled to the same quality of healthcare is as stupid as the idea that we should all earn the same amount of money.

That's not the point being made. No one is saying anything against private healthcare IF people want to pay for it over the top of public healthcare.
In fact in the US, the US govt spends the same amount on healthcare (per GDP) as the UK govt.
However, in the US if you don't pay extra on top of your taxes, most of the time you get nothing, whereas in the UK you actually get to not die if you get a serious problem.

 

[RDD_1210]

I could go for a mandatory participation in Universal Health Care.

Something like Switzerland's for instance.

Which, believe it or not, the dimocraps were shooting for that.... To try and sort of copy it.

But here's the problem people......

We're talking dimocraps here. The dumbest motherfuckers that have ever lived. I mean STUPID. I'm talking mouth-breathing, drool-cup, sons and daughters of brothers and sisters stupid. Eyes so close together they look like a Cyclops stupid.

IOW, dimocraps. The most stupid fucks to ever live.

I could go for a mandatory participation in Universal health Care and -- Here's the Truth...

So could most Republicans.

But dimocrap scum wouldn't let us participate in the process.

Where is the Tort Reform?

We should have a system like Workers Compensation uses -- A table of distribution, if you will.

Lose an arm? $50k and $XXX.00 a Month or take a lump sum or whatever.

Lose your brain? $0 if you're a dimocrap, $100,000,000 if you're a Conservative Patriot.

No lawyers. Bring a Lawyer and you get put in the back of the file.... See ya in a ten years, asshole.

There's so much good that could have been done. We could.... No -- We SHOULD have a working Mandatory Participation Health Care system in place RIGHT NOW!

But the problem is simple..... dimocrap scum were in charge.

And like EVERYTHING else they touch, they turned it to shit.

You'd be amazed how much I have in common with actual liberals.... I mean Liberals.

With dimocraps? Nothing.

With socialists? There should be a bounty on those motherfuckers.

With liberals? You'd be surprised how much I agree with them.

But not as long as they back dimocraps. Never. Never in a million years will I back a dimocrap. Not under ANY circumstance or for any reason.

Things need to get done, and dimocraps get in the way.

Republicans? They're just the cranky old men sitting on the couch that don't want to move but as soon as you get them motivated, they're hard to stop.

dimocraps are the scum of the earth

Without your usual ranting, what do you like about the Swiss system?

Obamacare Sees Swiss Show Mandatory-Private System Works - Bloomberg

Here’s how it works in Switzerland: Unlike many of its European neighbors, Switzerland has no government-funded health insurance system. All residents are obliged to buy a basic private health-insurance policy that provides a standard set of benefits. Insurers must accept all applicants, regardless of their age or state of health, according to the nation’s public health office.

Soooo. you like a system that is even more "socialist" than our system. The swiss system requires insurance for all, subsidies to the poor and profits can't be made on the basic insurance.

So maybe you don't like Obamacare because it's not socialist enough? That must be it.

 

[DiamondDave]

Yeah.. God forbid any company actually have an incentive for being in business

Tons of companies exist to earn nothing for those risking their investment

And government is only about 'the people' and not corrupt in any way "rolleyes:

Idiots

 

[bripat9643]

[

So, no matter how much money you have, you shouldn't be able to purchase healthcare any better than what the poorest, most pathetic shlub on the planet can get?

Here's a clue for you, moron: one of the main reasons people work their tails off is to have a better life, and a big part of that better life means better healthcare. The idea that we are all entitled to the same quality of healthcare is as stupid as the idea that we should all earn the same amount of money.

That's not the point being made. No one is saying anything against private healthcare IF people want to pay for it over the top of public healthcare.
In fact in the US, the US govt spends the same amount on healthcare (per GDP) as the UK govt.
However, in the US if you don't pay extra on top of your taxes, most of the time you get nothing, whereas in the UK you actually get to not die if you get a serious problem.

That's exactly what's being said, moron. What do you think "not driven by profit" means? That rules out private healthcare. The knucklehead I responded two also implied that the poorest person on the planet should receive exactly the same quality of care as the richest man on the planet. That's utterly insane. The whole point of socialized medicine and especially Obamacare is to make us all equal to each other in terms of healthcare. It's egalitarian nonsense imposed on the healthcare industry.

All this blather about the saving money is rationalizing after the fact. It's a diversion. The Defenders of Obamacare have made it plain that they don't care if it doesn't save anyone any money, so long as the rich guy is forced to get the exact same quality of care as the poor working shlub.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yeah.. God forbid any company actually have an incentive for being in business

Tons of companies exist to earn nothing for those risking their investment

And government is only about 'the people' and not corrupt in any way "rolleyes:

Idiots

Companies exist to provide jobs and healthcare. And pay fines to the government. Didnt you know that?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Soooo. you like a system that is even more "socialist" than our system. The swiss system requires insurance for all, subsidies to the poor and profits can't be made on the basic insurance.

So maybe you don't like Obamacare because it's not socialist enough? That must be it.

Such a ridiculous statement to make.

You are basically one of those people who have been told that socialism is bad, it must be bad, it has to be bad, it can't seriously work, no, no, no.

Open your eyes.

Insurance companies are part of the problem in the US. They make profit, and instill corruption within the system.
Admin for healthcare in the US is 30% of overall spending, that's double what Canada spends as a percentage (and far more because the US spends double what Canada spends, so it spends 4 times more just messing around with admin).

Why should I have to fill the pockets of some insurance dude who doesn't actually make me better, in order to get healthcare? It's ridiculous.

But the Swiss have the highest life expectancy in the world, they do so for less money. And all you whine on about is "socialism" or at least your warped view of what socialism means.

 

[RDD_1210]

Soooo. you like a system that is even more "socialist" than our system. The swiss system requires insurance for all, subsidies to the poor and profits can't be made on the basic insurance.

So maybe you don't like Obamacare because it's not socialist enough? That must be it.

Such a ridiculous statement to make.

You are basically one of those people who have been told that socialism is bad, it must be bad, it has to be bad, it can't seriously work, no, no, no.

Open your eyes.

Insurance companies are part of the problem in the US. They make profit, and instill corruption within the system.
Admin for healthcare in the US is 30% of overall spending, that's double what Canada spends as a percentage (and far more because the US spends double what Canada spends, so it spends 4 times more just messing around with admin).

Why should I have to fill the pockets of some insurance dude who doesn't actually make me better, in order to get healthcare? It's ridiculous.

But the Swiss have the highest life expectancy in the world, they do so for less money. And all you whine on about is "socialism" or at least your warped view of what socialism means.

Easy champ...read the conversation again. I agree with you. I was highlighting the fact that Edgetho is a loud mouth idiot.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, now that we are professing to speak for Jesus.

Christ would not want the government we have now where we essentially hook people on welfare and goodies and take away their dignity and spirit.

Wouldn't want it? Why? Because he was clearly a Republican?

What about the good Samaritan? Didn't he help those who others wouldn't help?

As for whether he'd want govt getting people on welfare, no one can really claim anything because hell, welfare didn't exist back then.

What does it have to do with being a Republican? And what, precisely, do you think the connection is between personal, individual charity and compassion and bloated, monolithic government programs?

As a matter of fact, anyone who's bothered to study the Bible and think independently for a few minutes can see that the dependency and sense of personal irresponsibility fostered by welfare is very much contrary to what the Bible teaches us to strive for in our lives and our society. It's not exactly rocket magic.

 

[Cecilie1200]

[

So, no matter how much money you have, you shouldn't be able to purchase healthcare any better than what the poorest, most pathetic shlub on the planet can get?

Here's a clue for you, moron: one of the main reasons people work their tails off is to have a better life, and a big part of that better life means better healthcare. The idea that we are all entitled to the same quality of healthcare is as stupid as the idea that we should all earn the same amount of money.

That's not the point being made. No one is saying anything against private healthcare IF people want to pay for it over the top of public healthcare.
In fact in the US, the US govt spends the same amount on healthcare (per GDP) as the UK govt.
However, in the US if you don't pay extra on top of your taxes, most of the time you get nothing, whereas in the UK you actually get to not die if you get a serious problem.

Then how come the US has better survival rates for those "serious problems"? How come you're more likely to survive a bout with any type of cancer you'd care to name in the US than in any of the countries of western Europe? Why is it that people dying or becoming permanently disabled while waiting for surgery and treatment in the UK became an open scandal not that long ago?

 

[Cecilie1200]

People have the dumbest frigging ideas about healthcare these days, I swear to God. The level of entitlement, laziness, and whining pathos just appalls me.

Case in point: Today I took a call from a patient who was incensed - literally INCENSED! - because the claim he put in for his medication at a retail pharmacy was rejected by the insurance. I looked up the claim and explained that his insurance plan only covered that medication with a prior authorization. Next words out of his mouth - and I could see it coming, because I have this exact same conversation multiple times every day; it's like there's a script somewhere: "What gives you the right to override my doctor's decision about my medications and tell me I can't take this?" *sigh*

Now I'm rolling my eyes and drumming my fingers on the desk, trying to maintain a polite, professional tone of voice instead of telling this guy what I'm really thinking. You leftists in the audience are going, "Yeah, he's right!" but you conservatives out there know exactly what's coming.

"Sir, no one is overriding your doctor or telling you you can't take the medication. You're more than welcome to fill the prescription out-of-pocket, and no one will stop you. However, the insurance company reserves the right to choose not to pay for this medication unless certain criteria are met. All you need to do is have your doctor initiate a coverage review requesting that they pay for the medication."

What followed was much whining about how much pain he was in, didn't we understand how important his medications were, he paid a lot for his insurance and how dare they not cover everything he might want whenever he might want it, I guess I'll just skip my medication and suffer, and other such maunderings. The funny thing is that in amongst all that whinging was a lot of complaining about how it was too much trouble for him to call his doctor and pass along the phone number to our Prior Authorizations department so he could get an approval by tomorrow and go pick up his frigging prescription. I thought you just said it was important, dumbass. Now it's not important enough for you to make a freaking phone call to your own doctor? Really?