Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine, Navarro vs Fauci

[bripat9643]

The problem is that it has so far only "worked" on patients that are not to that point very sick. It's efficacy on patients in ICU is pretty much non-existent.

Would those mildly ill patients have gotten better without it?
Without proper testing we don't know.

Link?

 

[bripat9643]

I know this much, Navarro has been a hawk on China, well ahead of the game in terms of what threat they pose to the world. The guy I probably most trust in his administration to stay the course on confronting abusers of America.

Fauci, has been getting sunshine shined up his behind by CNN in particular for some time. This article was co-written by that guy in high school who I would expect to rat someone out to the teacher if he heard them curse in gym class, Jim Acosta. I think Fauci seeks the spotlight too often and he is a little too sure of himself for my tastes for this type of situation with many unknowns. I'm glad when Trump calls him out about wanting to shut the country down for 2 years, I think it's an odd, broad position to take considering how some states are far less impacted by this virus than others.

Heated disagreement breaks out in Situation Room over hydroxychloroquine

(CNN)There was a heated disagreement in the Situation Room this weekend over the efficacy of the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine -- but multiple sources say it was mostly one-sided, as President Donald Trump's top trade adviser Peter Navarro feuded with other officials over the drug's unproven effectiveness to treat coronavirus.

The debate is not a new one inside the coronavirus task force -- and medical experts have repeatedly explained to the President that there is a risk in enthusiastically touting hydroxychloroquine in case the drug doesn't ultimately work to combat the virus. But other aides and outside advisers have sided with Trump, including Navarro, who is still not a formal part of the task force but has wedged himself into the meetings.

Axios first reported on the disagreement inside the White House about the drug.

While discussing the latest on hydroxychloroquine this weekend, an exasperated Navarro lashed out at Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the advisers who has urged caution about the drug, a person familiar with the meeting told CNN.

Fauci's been good to have in our corner but OTOH reminds me of that saying "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail". He's too insular. Trump is wise to bring other people in and listen.

Yeah, let's listen to what the economist has to say over the health care professional with over 50 years experience during a pandemic.

Yeah, let's stay in our houses like hermits for two years. Brilliant plan. There will be NO viruses left likely, but also, no economy. And no America.

Great idea. Brilliant.

That's exactly what The VOR asshole would LOVE to see happen if it would destroy President Trump.

You're an idiot. But hey, when it comes to YOUR health, if you want to trust in an economist for your well-being, knock yourself out.

Personally, I'll side with the medical professionals when it comes to my health during this pandemic, and I'll do my best taking precautions to prevent myself from contracting this virus from some stupid fuck like you.

And one more thing assholes --- you and sue --- nobody said anything about staying in their homes without coming out for two years. That's just more of the loads of bullshit you idiots invent.

It truly is amazing how fucking stupid you retards are.

If Fauci a medical professional? He said he would take it if he had the virus.

Sorry, but you aren't making any sense. Learn English and then get back to me.

Of you get corvid will you refuse this drug?

Yes, because it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional. You on the other hand would take it because trump and an economist told you to, LOL. Good luck.

Who told you that it wouldn't be prescribed by a medical professional?

Are you telling me doctors are currently prescribing hydroxychloroquine for covid-19?

Of course they are. Who told you that they weren't?

Doctors are prescribing it for covid-19? Link me to that. There haven't even been clinical trials for this drug as a treatment for covid-19.

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19

Fuck that. If you want to be a lab rat, go right ahead, not me.

This drug has been in use since 1955 in the US. Anybody with this virus right now should take this. Most with common sense would.

Except for VOR he will refuse it because cnn told him to refuse it lol

You just never tire of proving to everyone what a moron you are, LOL.

Ironic!

 

[HappyJoy]

And? There is only anecdotal evidence that it works which quite frankly isn't good enough. My friend who has COVID was prescribed it and had to immediately stop. Other patients it might work but until proven otherwise through clinical trials it's not a wonder drug.

We elected Trump to get things done. Clinical trials would be a waste of time right now.

So you just want to prescribe everyone medication that may or may not send them into cardiac arrest?

My God this is stupid. Z-packs alone in theory can cause cardiac arrest and yet it is prescribed millions of times per year. The benefits FAR outweigh the very minimal chance of this complication.

Tens of millions of people aren't taking the Z-pack. As a person with very bad drug reactions to supposedly "benign" drugs, I would be reluctant to try a drug which could damage my heart, my kidneys, and leave me blind, unless there was absolutely no other hope. No fucking way I'd take it as a "precaution".

Not to mention, that my sister, who is SUPPOSED to by taking hydroxychloroquine for her reumatoid arthritis, and who literally needs the drug to continue living, can't get it because the entire world's supply has been diverted to corona virus testing.

Well then, as a true collectivist believer you agree that your sister must then give her life for the greater good

Obviously I'm not a true collectivst believer, because I don't want my sister to die because idiots took her drug and killed themselves with it.

No one should be forced to give their life "for the greater good", or because someone in the Administration bought shares in a drug company.

So really AREN'T a Progessive when it gets personal. Got it. Nobody "killed" themselves with it twit. Change the channel.

Really? You clearly have not read the side effects and dangers of taking this drug.

Change the Channel, the dude swallowed fish bowl cleaner

You don't know that the drug has some pretty serious side effects? Didn't anyone tell you and you didn't bother to look into it at all?

 

[JustAGuy1]

And? There is only anecdotal evidence that it works which quite frankly isn't good enough. My friend who has COVID was prescribed it and had to immediately stop. Other patients it might work but until proven otherwise through clinical trials it's not a wonder drug.

We elected Trump to get things done. Clinical trials would be a waste of time right now.

So you just want to prescribe everyone medication that may or may not send them into cardiac arrest?

My God this is stupid. Z-packs alone in theory can cause cardiac arrest and yet it is prescribed millions of times per year. The benefits FAR outweigh the very minimal chance of this complication.

Tens of millions of people aren't taking the Z-pack. As a person with very bad drug reactions to supposedly "benign" drugs, I would be reluctant to try a drug which could damage my heart, my kidneys, and leave me blind, unless there was absolutely no other hope. No fucking way I'd take it as a "precaution".

Not to mention, that my sister, who is SUPPOSED to by taking hydroxychloroquine for her reumatoid arthritis, and who literally needs the drug to continue living, can't get it because the entire world's supply has been diverted to corona virus testing.

Well then, as a true collectivist believer you agree that your sister must then give her life for the greater good

Obviously I'm not a true collectivst believer, because I don't want my sister to die because idiots took her drug and killed themselves with it.

No one should be forced to give their life "for the greater good", or because someone in the Administration bought shares in a drug company.

So really AREN'T a Progessive when it gets personal. Got it. Nobody "killed" themselves with it twit. Change the channel.

Really? You clearly have not read the side effects and dangers of taking this drug.

Change the Channel, the dude swallowed fish bowl cleaner

You don't know that the drug has some pretty serious side effects? Didn't anyone tell you and you didn't bother to look into it at all?

Change the Channel, the dude swallowed fish bowl cleaner

 

[HappyJoy]

And? There is only anecdotal evidence that it works which quite frankly isn't good enough. My friend who has COVID was prescribed it and had to immediately stop. Other patients it might work but until proven otherwise through clinical trials it's not a wonder drug.

We elected Trump to get things done. Clinical trials would be a waste of time right now.

So you just want to prescribe everyone medication that may or may not send them into cardiac arrest?

My God this is stupid. Z-packs alone in theory can cause cardiac arrest and yet it is prescribed millions of times per year. The benefits FAR outweigh the very minimal chance of this complication.

Tens of millions of people aren't taking the Z-pack. As a person with very bad drug reactions to supposedly "benign" drugs, I would be reluctant to try a drug which could damage my heart, my kidneys, and leave me blind, unless there was absolutely no other hope. No fucking way I'd take it as a "precaution".

Not to mention, that my sister, who is SUPPOSED to by taking hydroxychloroquine for her reumatoid arthritis, and who literally needs the drug to continue living, can't get it because the entire world's supply has been diverted to corona virus testing.

Well then, as a true collectivist believer you agree that your sister must then give her life for the greater good

Obviously I'm not a true collectivst believer, because I don't want my sister to die because idiots took her drug and killed themselves with it.

No one should be forced to give their life "for the greater good", or because someone in the Administration bought shares in a drug company.

So really AREN'T a Progessive when it gets personal. Got it. Nobody "killed" themselves with it twit. Change the channel.

Really? You clearly have not read the side effects and dangers of taking this drug.

Change the Channel, the dude swallowed fish bowl cleaner

You don't know that the drug has some pretty serious side effects? Didn't anyone tell you and you didn't bother to look into it at all?

Change the Channel, the dude swallowed fish bowl cleaner

Not talking about that guy, the drug has side effects. You really don't know this?

 

[Siete]

10,000 people now dead in the US, what does Trump have to lose??

theres no evidence malaria drugs keep the virus from SPREADING -

SPREADING - not dying - SPREADING

STOP THE VIRUS FROM SPREADING

get it dumbasses ?

 

[DBA]

I thought this thread was about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine. If so, there is no debate. Fauci is correct. No scientifically verified data supports the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment for CV-19. Full stop.

There is no scientifically verified data that supports the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is never an effective treatment for Covid-19.

There is no scientifically verified data that supports the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is any more effective as a treatment for Covid-19 than a Payday candy bar is.

actually there is, and more coming out every day.

Please site the scientifically verified data.

Are you promoting a notion that hydroxychloroquine can only help covid 19 patients if it has scientific research and studies and is blessed by a government agency as an effective treatment?

I'm promoting the notion that there is no reason to believe it can help without scientific research and studies. That drug is not without side effects. It is known to effect the electrical signals in your heart, potentially causing death for some people. Only an idiot would take something that could kill you with no reason to believe it will help you.

There are reasons to believe it will help. Not only anecdotal evidence, but scientific evidence from those that understand how viruses work.

Because hydroxychloroquine allows zinc ions inside the cell it can in theory affect the electrical conduction in myocardium, or heart cells. Heart cells are very susceptible to changes in ion currents because that is how the heart muscle operates there is electrical conduction that tells the muscle cells when to relax and when to squeeze. Hydroxychloroquine can potentially cause arrhythmias because of its affects on ion channels. Other cell types are not as susceptible. This is not a common side affect. If you have COVID-19, you would be ill advised to worry about heart issues as a potential side affect as opposed to the potential benefits.

The MSM is attempting to trick the masses again by downplaying the role hydroxychoroquine can play in fighting this virus.

I hope it works, but there is no reason at this time to believe it does.

Maybe you missed my previous post.

Plaquenil (hydroxychoroquine), acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection.

This is not speculative. This is the mechanism by which this medicine can help. It has been very effective for those who are in the early stages of this virus. In short, there is reason to believe it helps and can be an effective treatment, preventing the deadly infections caused by COVID 19.

 

[bripat9643]

10,000 people now dead in the US, what does Trump have to lose??

theres no evidence malaria drugs keep the virus from SPREADING -

SPREADING - not dying - SPREADING

STOP THE VIRUS FROM SPREADING

get it dumbasses ?

So if it keeps you from dying, then it's not useful?

 

[Siete]

10,000 people now dead in the US, what does Trump have to lose??

theres no evidence malaria drugs keep the virus from SPREADING -

SPREADING - not dying - SPREADING

STOP THE VIRUS FROM SPREADING

get it dumbasses ?

So if it keeps you from dying, then it's not useful?

look dipshit, useful is irrelevant - the goal is to stop SPREADING -

what part of STOP SPREADING confuses you -

 

[Lesh]

The Side Effects of Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine

There is newfound interest in chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine because of their potential to treat coronavirus disease of 2019 (COVID-19),

www.poison.org

This MAY be a treatment and hopefully it will but Trump was being asinine about it.

That kind of talk from someone in his position is insane and dangerous. There are people who already depend on this drug and hoarding means they won't get it.

 

[Lesh]

Exactly. It is MUCH better to not GET the disease than to hope this drug will cure it and not kill you

 

[JustAGuy1]

And? There is only anecdotal evidence that it works which quite frankly isn't good enough. My friend who has COVID was prescribed it and had to immediately stop. Other patients it might work but until proven otherwise through clinical trials it's not a wonder drug.

We elected Trump to get things done. Clinical trials would be a waste of time right now.

So you just want to prescribe everyone medication that may or may not send them into cardiac arrest?

My God this is stupid. Z-packs alone in theory can cause cardiac arrest and yet it is prescribed millions of times per year. The benefits FAR outweigh the very minimal chance of this complication.

Tens of millions of people aren't taking the Z-pack. As a person with very bad drug reactions to supposedly "benign" drugs, I would be reluctant to try a drug which could damage my heart, my kidneys, and leave me blind, unless there was absolutely no other hope. No fucking way I'd take it as a "precaution".

Not to mention, that my sister, who is SUPPOSED to by taking hydroxychloroquine for her reumatoid arthritis, and who literally needs the drug to continue living, can't get it because the entire world's supply has been diverted to corona virus testing.

Well then, as a true collectivist believer you agree that your sister must then give her life for the greater good

Obviously I'm not a true collectivst believer, because I don't want my sister to die because idiots took her drug and killed themselves with it.

No one should be forced to give their life "for the greater good", or because someone in the Administration bought shares in a drug company.

So really AREN'T a Progessive when it gets personal. Got it. Nobody "killed" themselves with it twit. Change the channel.

Really? You clearly have not read the side effects and dangers of taking this drug.

Change the Channel, the dude swallowed fish bowl cleaner

You don't know that the drug has some pretty serious side effects? Didn't anyone tell you and you didn't bother to look into it at all?

Change the Channel, the dude swallowed fish bowl cleaner

Not talking about that guy, the drug has side effects. You really don't know this?

It's simply not the point, ALL drugs have side effects. You weigh the benfits and the costs and you make an informed decision. Frankly if the choice is die or have your D*ck fall off you'll choose life.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Exactly. It is MUCH better to not GET the disease than to hope this drug will cure it and not kill you

Cuomo said it worked for him, surely you believe him?

 

[bripat9643]

10,000 people now dead in the US, what does Trump have to lose??

theres no evidence malaria drugs keep the virus from SPREADING -

SPREADING - not dying - SPREADING

STOP THE VIRUS FROM SPREADING

get it dumbasses ?

So if it keeps you from dying, then it's not useful?

look dipshit, useful is irrelevant - the goal is to stop SPREADING -

what part of STOP SPREADING confuses you -

So saving people's lives isn't a goal?

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly. It is MUCH better to not GET the disease than to hope this drug will cure it and not kill you

So what do you tell the people who already have it, "you should not have gotten the disease?"

You're an asshole and a dumbass.

 

[Siete]

take all the malaria meds you want - you can still get the virus and pass it on to others.

 

[WEATHER53]

Moving goalpost time about “stopping the spread” versus stopping the infection or preventing worsening
The only victory in any of this for lib loons is complete defeat.

 

[bripat9643]

The Side Effects of Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine

There is newfound interest in chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine because of their potential to treat coronavirus disease of 2019 (COVID-19),

www.poison.org

This MAY be a treatment and hopefully it will but Trump was being asinine about it.

That kind of talk from someone in his position is insane and dangerous. There are people who already depend on this drug and hoarding means they won't get it.

How is he being "asinine" about it? What kind of talk?

 

[WEATHER53]

I thought this thread was about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine. If so, there is no debate. Fauci is correct. No scientifically verified data supports the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment for CV-19. Full stop.

There is no scientifically verified data that supports the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is never an effective treatment for Covid-19.

There is no scientifically verified data that supports the hypothesis that hydroxychloroquine is any more effective as a treatment for Covid-19 than a Payday candy bar is.

actually there is, and more coming out every day.

Please site the scientifically verified data.

Are you promoting a notion that hydroxychloroquine can only help covid 19 patients if it has scientific research and studies and is blessed by a government agency as an effective treatment?

I'm promoting the notion that there is no reason to believe it can help without scientific research and studies. That drug is not without side effects. It is known to effect the electrical signals in your heart, potentially causing death for some people. Only an idiot would take something that could kill you with no reason to believe it will help you.

There are reasons to believe it will help. Not only anecdotal evidence, but scientific evidence from those that understand how viruses work.

Because hydroxychloroquine allows zinc ions inside the cell it can in theory affect the electrical conduction in myocardium, or heart cells. Heart cells are very susceptible to changes in ion currents because that is how the heart muscle operates there is electrical conduction that tells the muscle cells when to relax and when to squeeze. Hydroxychloroquine can potentially cause arrhythmias because of its affects on ion channels. Other cell types are not as susceptible. This is not a common side affect. If you have COVID-19, you would be ill advised to worry about heart issues as a potential side affect as opposed to the potential benefits.

The MSM is attempting to trick the masses again by downplaying the role hydroxychoroquine can play in fighting this virus.

I hope it works, but there is no reason at this time to believe it does.

Maybe you missed my previous post.

Plaquenil (hydroxychoroquine), acts as an ionophore. It punches holes in the cell membrane where the virus has already penetrated to allow zinc ions inside. Zinc prevents the virus's replication machinery. That's what make Plaquenil effective. So taking plac 1L and a zinc supplement together early on can prevent debilitating Covid 19 infection.

This is not speculative. This is the mechanism by which this medicine can help. It has been very effective for those who are in the early stages of this virus. In short, there is reason to believe it helps and can be an effective treatment, preventing the deadly infections caused by COVID 19.

Too much fact, too little worst case scenario feeling

 

[bripat9643]

take all the malaria meds you want - you can still get the virus and pass it on to others.

So it would be better if you died in the process?