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Nice dodge on my questions. Odd that you responded to a question posted to sealybobo. Do you use sock puppets?I don't see an answer to the question: why *worship* a god?
As for worship, an all-knowing, all powerful entity doesn't need worship. Ergo, there's no reason to "worship" God, but there is a very good reason to better understand the meaning of existence.
Mocking? Annoyed? Being defensive?; against what? Broadbrush? All I asked was why worship God, even if there were no doubt it/he/she exists.And this is what I mean. Most Christians would feel sorry for another. To broad brush all just for the actions of a loud-mouthed few is wrong regardless if they are theist or atheist.This is what I mean. I think if someone truly believed they were going to a heaven and others were not, they would only be capable of feeling sorrow for anyone who mocked or doubted them. Even the slightest hint of being annoyed tells me you are getting defensive and to me that makes me doubt that even you believe what you are saying.
Nice dodge on my questions. Odd that you responded to a question posted to sealybobo. Do you use sock puppets?I don't see an answer to the question: why *worship* a god?
As for worship, an all-knowing, all powerful entity doesn't need worship. Ergo, there's no reason to "worship" God, but there is a very good reason to better understand the meaning of existence.
Mocking? Annoyed? Being defensive?; against what? Broadbrush? All I asked was why worship God, even if there were no doubt it/he/she exists.And this is what I mean. Most Christians would feel sorry for another. To broad brush all just for the actions of a loud-mouthed few is wrong regardless if they are theist or atheist.This is what I mean. I think if someone truly believed they were going to a heaven and others were not, they would only be capable of feeling sorrow for anyone who mocked or doubted them. Even the slightest hint of being annoyed tells me you are getting defensive and to me that makes me doubt that even you believe what you are saying.
You wrote, ". . . . there's no reason to "worship" God, but there is a very good reason to better understand the meaning of existence."Nice dodge on my questions. Odd that you responded to a question posted to sealybobo. Do you use sock puppets?I don't see an answer to the question: why *worship* a god?
As for worship, an all-knowing, all powerful entity doesn't need worship. Ergo, there's no reason to "worship" God, but there is a very good reason to better understand the meaning of existence.
Mocking? Annoyed? Being defensive?; against what? Broadbrush? All I asked was why worship God, even if there were no doubt it/he/she exists.And this is what I mean. Most Christians would feel sorry for another. To broad brush all just for the actions of a loud-mouthed few is wrong regardless if they are theist or atheist.This is what I mean. I think if someone truly believed they were going to a heaven and others were not, they would only be capable of feeling sorrow for anyone who mocked or doubted them. Even the slightest hint of being annoyed tells me you are getting defensive and to me that makes me doubt that even you believe what you are saying.
Who made God? Abraham did! Jeece!, a Jewish Mom would know that!God is beyond the universe now? I don't want to sound like doubting Jewish mom. But then wisenheimer, who made God and all that stuff. It's a interesting question, don't you think?
Disagreed, but you're free to believe that....Existence's meaning is whatever we personally decide it means; there is no other source for the meaning of anything abstract.
(continued from post #339)
1. You don't need a reason to enjoy spaghetti.
2. Everything (else) has a cause.
3. Nothing can cause itself.
4. Everything is caused by another thing.
5. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
6. There must be a first cause.
7. The first cause had no cause.
8. Spaghetti is the only thing that can have no cause, thus must be the first cause.
[/QUOTE]Mocking? Annoyed? Being defensive?; against what? Broadbrush? All I asked was why worship God, even if there were no doubt it/he/she exists.And this is what I mean. Most Christians would feel sorry for another. To broad brush all just for the actions of a loud-mouthed few is wrong regardless if they are theist or atheist.This is what I mean. I think if someone truly believed they were going to a heaven and others were not, they would only be capable of feeling sorrow for anyone who mocked or doubted them. Even the slightest hint of being annoyed tells me you are getting defensive and to me that makes me doubt that even you believe what you are saying.
We all want to know the meaning of life. I just don't believe the people who think they know.[/QUOTE]Nice dodge on my questions. Odd that you responded to a question posted to sealybobo. Do you use sock puppets?I don't see an answer to the question: why *worship* a god?
As for worship, an all-knowing, all powerful entity doesn't need worship. Ergo, there's no reason to "worship" God, but there is a very good reason to better understand the meaning of existence.
Mocking? Annoyed? Being defensive?; against what? Broadbrush? All I asked was why worship God, even if there were no doubt it/he/she exists.And this is what I mean. Most Christians would feel sorry for another. To broad brush all just for the actions of a loud-mouthed few is wrong regardless if they are theist or atheist.This is what I mean. I think if someone truly believed they were going to a heaven and others were not, they would only be capable of feeling sorrow for anyone who mocked or doubted them. Even the slightest hint of being annoyed tells me you are getting defensive and to me that makes me doubt that even you believe what you are saying.
I didn't say that, but it's interesting that is the conclusion you leaped toward.Where did you get the idea that you need to believe what another person decides is life's meaning? That's like saying that person is lying to one's self about something that only s/he can know: what s/he thinks. The meaning of life does not have a universal answer, it can't, unless you hear a voice in your mind, and call it God.
Nice dodge on my questions. Odd that you responded to a question posted to sealybobo
Perhaps you do not understand the concept of natural selection. There is no decision involved. Some creatures survive, others do not. Natural selection is just a phrase to use to easily describe the process whereby some creatures are better able to survive and procreate due to whatever characteristics they have which other creatures, that don't do as well at surviving and procreating, do not have.You're pleased with what you said above?So in the mind of an atheist (correct me if I am wrong) "natural selection" is their god.
You are wrong. Atheism is a lack of belief in any god (or a belief that there is no god, depending on the definition). If natural selection is a person's god, they are not an atheist. Calling natural selection an atheist's god is just a way to try to make atheism into a type of religion IMO.
What that tells me is that you really had no defense for the gist of my post, so you looked for something to pick at and divert the discussion.
I know atheism does not believe in any god. I used the word 'god' in a context I was hoping the reader would understand.
Now go back to my post and explain how "nature" can be so clever, yet so mindless, thoughtless, and without feeling all at the same time. (Post #131 So in the mind of an atheist (correct me if I am wrong) "natural selection" is their god. Somehow, some strange way "natural selection" which according to Dawkins has no will, no plan, no real intelligence --- still given that "decided" now is a good time to start hearing. So mindless "natural selection" by chance began the unimaginable process of creating the physiological makeup of what it would take to create hearing. And some of us in the classroom yelled out --- "Yeah, Right!" : 0 )
In other words, natural selection did not do anything. It is not an entity or intelligence capable of doing.
It's a mystery. OTOH, I accept the Universe is about 13.8 Billion years old. Do you? God created the Universe and all the physical laws with in it. Do you deny this?
God gave us brains. My thinking is that God expects us to use our brains to better understand the natural universe God created over 13 BILLION years ago. Do you agree with this?
It's a mystery. OTOH, I accept the Universe is about 13.8 Billion years old. Do you? God created the Universe and all the physical laws with in it. Do you deny this?
God gave us brains. My thinking is that God expects us to use our brains to better understand the natural universe God created over 13 BILLION years ago. Do you agree with this?
Everything you said minus the god part! Put me in the Einstein/Jefferson corner:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
~Thomas Jefferson~
It's a mystery. OTOH, I accept the Universe is about 13.8 Billion years old. Do you? God created the Universe and all the physical laws with in it. Do you deny this?
God gave us brains. My thinking is that God expects us to use our brains to better understand the natural universe God created over 13 BILLION years ago. Do you agree with this?
Everything you said minus the god part! Put me in the Einstein/Jefferson corner:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
~Thomas Jefferson~
There are countless highly documented miracles replete with observed phenomena that science has tried but cannot provide any explanation for. So you and they --- because you are so afraid of being wrong --- just call it a mystery and walk away. And then pretend you are still the smart ones in the room. How sad. How easily deceived.
There have been scores of weeping statues and paintings of Jesus and Mary over the past 50 years. How many have your team of scientists and skeptics uncovered the hoax behind them? Maybe 2 or 3?
What about the other 50 statues and paintings? Let me answer that for you.
1) Every single person who claimed to have observed the human tears or tears of blood or holy oil flowing from the statues or paintings are in on the joke. So that would account for several thousand witnesses over the past number of decades who just said it was weeping even though it was not.
2) All these statues and paintings that were seen by independent sources or journalists or TV cameras filming them weeping were clever tricks assembled by over-exuberant nuns or priests wanting to draw attention to themselves. And, no doubt, so clever no one could figure it out.
3) Or am I missing another explanation / theory?
The example above is just one way of God manifesting His presence to this modern world. But you do not want to consider anything like that, do you? No, you are so comfortable in your strange man-created environment called "natural selection." I cannot describe how much this bewilders me.
It's a mystery. OTOH, I accept the Universe is about 13.8 Billion years old. Do you? God created the Universe and all the physical laws with in it. Do you deny this?
God gave us brains. My thinking is that God expects us to use our brains to better understand the natural universe God created over 13 BILLION years ago. Do you agree with this?
Everything you said minus the god part! Put me in the Einstein/Jefferson corner:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
~Thomas Jefferson~
There are countless highly documented miracles replete with observed phenomena that science has tried but cannot provide any explanation for. So you and they --- because you are so afraid of being wrong --- just call it a mystery and walk away. And then pretend you are still the smart ones in the room. How sad. How easily deceived.
There have been scores of weeping statues and paintings of Jesus and Mary over the past 50 years. How many have your team of scientists and skeptics uncovered the hoax behind them? Maybe 2 or 3?
What about the other 50 statues and paintings? Let me answer that for you.
1) Every single person who claimed to have observed the human tears or tears of blood or holy oil flowing from the statues or paintings are in on the joke. So that would account for several thousand witnesses over the past number of decades who just said it was weeping even though it was not.
2) All these statues and paintings that were seen by independent sources or journalists or TV cameras filming them weeping were clever tricks assembled by over-exuberant nuns or priests wanting to draw attention to themselves. And, no doubt, so clever no one could figure it out.
3) Or am I missing another explanation / theory?
The example above is just one way of God manifesting His presence to this modern world. But you do not want to consider anything like that, do you? No, you are so comfortable in your strange man-created environment called "natural selection." I cannot describe how much this bewilders me.
If I did believe in miracles, it would kind of piss me off to see such a power squandered on stunts like 'weeping statues'.
That's not how it works. It's more subtle than that such explained below about England's Peppered Moth....And their oft used phrase “survival of the fittest” implies it is no sweat for some animal that cannot see or hear to think it needs to start seeing and so it embarks upon making an eyeball via “natural selection.” And yet you then quickly follow up by telling me “natural selection did not do anything (because) it is not an entity or intelligence capable of doing.” Sorry, but that is so insulting it is hard to describe it in words.
The concept of a "Personal God" is a modern Christian one. That if one prays enough, God grants bicycles or whatever else a person desires. I disagree with the concept since, IMHO, God doesn't grant bicycles. God's plan is much longer term and on a higher plan than mortal materialistic desires.It's a mystery. OTOH, I accept the Universe is about 13.8 Billion years old. Do you? God created the Universe and all the physical laws with in it. Do you deny this?
God gave us brains. My thinking is that God expects us to use our brains to better understand the natural universe God created over 13 BILLION years ago. Do you agree with this?
Everything you said minus the god part! Put me in the Einstein/Jefferson corner:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
~Thomas Jefferson~
It's a mystery. OTOH, I accept the Universe is about 13.8 Billion years old. Do you? God created the Universe and all the physical laws with in it. Do you deny this?
God gave us brains. My thinking is that God expects us to use our brains to better understand the natural universe God created over 13 BILLION years ago. Do you agree with this?
Everything you said minus the god part! Put me in the Einstein/Jefferson corner:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
~Thomas Jefferson~
There are countless highly documented miracles replete with observed phenomena that science has tried but cannot provide any explanation for. So you and they --- because you are so afraid of being wrong --- just call it a mystery and walk away. And then pretend you are still the smart ones in the room. How sad. How easily deceived.
There have been scores of weeping statues and paintings of Jesus and Mary over the past 50 years. How many have your team of scientists and skeptics uncovered the hoax behind them? Maybe 2 or 3?
What about the other 50 statues and paintings? Let me answer that for you.
1) Every single person who claimed to have observed the human tears or tears of blood or holy oil flowing from the statues or paintings are in on the joke. So that would account for several thousand witnesses over the past number of decades who just said it was weeping even though it was not.
2) All these statues and paintings that were seen by independent sources or journalists or TV cameras filming them weeping were clever tricks assembled by over-exuberant nuns or priests wanting to draw attention to themselves. And, no doubt, so clever no one could figure it out.
3) Or am I missing another explanation / theory?
The example above is just one way of God manifesting His presence to this modern world. But you do not want to consider anything like that, do you? No, you are so comfortable in your strange man-created environment called "natural selection." I cannot describe how much this bewilders me.
If I did believe in miracles, it would kind of piss me off to see such a power squandered on stunts like 'weeping statues'.
I must tell you that "tough guy" statements just like yours above are some of the most pathetic points of view or pretentious pieces of stupidity I ever come across on boards like this.
You have no idea what you are saying or who you even are.
Why would it piss you off? What would you rather see being done?If I did believe in miracles, it would kind of piss me off to see such a power squandered on stunts like 'weeping statues'.
That's not how it works. It's more subtle than that such explained below about England's Peppered Moth....And their oft used phrase “survival of the fittest” implies it is no sweat for some animal that cannot see or hear to think it needs to start seeing and so it embarks upon making an eyeball via “natural selection.” And yet you then quickly follow up by telling me “natural selection did not do anything (because) it is not an entity or intelligence capable of doing.” Sorry, but that is so insulting it is hard to describe it in words.
The Peppered Moth
It's a mystery. OTOH, I accept the Universe is about 13.8 Billion years old. Do you? God created the Universe and all the physical laws with in it. Do you deny this?
God gave us brains. My thinking is that God expects us to use our brains to better understand the natural universe God created over 13 BILLION years ago. Do you agree with this?
Everything you said minus the god part! Put me in the Einstein/Jefferson corner:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
~Thomas Jefferson~
There are countless highly documented miracles replete with observed phenomena that science has tried but cannot provide any explanation for. So you and they --- because you are so afraid of being wrong --- just call it a mystery and walk away. And then pretend you are still the smart ones in the room. How sad. How easily deceived.
There have been scores of weeping statues and paintings of Jesus and Mary over the past 50 years. How many have your team of scientists and skeptics uncovered the hoax behind them? Maybe 2 or 3?
What about the other 50 statues and paintings? Let me answer that for you.
1) Every single person who claimed to have observed the human tears or tears of blood or holy oil flowing from the statues or paintings are in on the joke. So that would account for several thousand witnesses over the past number of decades who just said it was weeping even though it was not.
2) All these statues and paintings that were seen by independent sources or journalists or TV cameras filming them weeping were clever tricks assembled by over-exuberant nuns or priests wanting to draw attention to themselves. And, no doubt, so clever no one could figure it out.
3) Or am I missing another explanation / theory?
The example above is just one way of God manifesting His presence to this modern world. But you do not want to consider anything like that, do you? No, you are so comfortable in your strange man-created environment called "natural selection." I cannot describe how much this bewilders me.
If I did believe in miracles, it would kind of piss me off to see such a power squandered on stunts like 'weeping statues'.
I must tell you that "tough guy" statements just like yours above are some of the most pathetic points of view or pretentious pieces of stupidity I ever come across on boards like this.
You have no idea what you are saying or who you even are.
I know I'm not a 'tough guy'. Where are you getting that?
Everything you said minus the god part! Put me in the Einstein/Jefferson corner:
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."
~Dr. Albert Einstein~
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
~Thomas Jefferson~
There are countless highly documented miracles replete with observed phenomena that science has tried but cannot provide any explanation for. So you and they --- because you are so afraid of being wrong --- just call it a mystery and walk away. And then pretend you are still the smart ones in the room. How sad. How easily deceived.
There have been scores of weeping statues and paintings of Jesus and Mary over the past 50 years. How many have your team of scientists and skeptics uncovered the hoax behind them? Maybe 2 or 3?
What about the other 50 statues and paintings? Let me answer that for you.
1) Every single person who claimed to have observed the human tears or tears of blood or holy oil flowing from the statues or paintings are in on the joke. So that would account for several thousand witnesses over the past number of decades who just said it was weeping even though it was not.
2) All these statues and paintings that were seen by independent sources or journalists or TV cameras filming them weeping were clever tricks assembled by over-exuberant nuns or priests wanting to draw attention to themselves. And, no doubt, so clever no one could figure it out.
3) Or am I missing another explanation / theory?
The example above is just one way of God manifesting His presence to this modern world. But you do not want to consider anything like that, do you? No, you are so comfortable in your strange man-created environment called "natural selection." I cannot describe how much this bewilders me.
If I did believe in miracles, it would kind of piss me off to see such a power squandered on stunts like 'weeping statues'.
I must tell you that "tough guy" statements just like yours above are some of the most pathetic points of view or pretentious pieces of stupidity I ever come across on boards like this.
You have no idea what you are saying or who you even are.
I know I'm not a 'tough guy'. Where are you getting that?
By implying God does not know how to run his own program, you know better and are saying God would never use weeping statues because that is so lame.
Thanks for completely disregarding the point. LOLSorry, I do not have time to engage in this conversation. But suffice it to say there is an enormous abyss between micro-evolution and macro-evolution (i.e. the change from one species to a completely new species.) That is where the fossil record is totally void. The fossil evidence is not in favor of any kind of evolution, be it without and I.D. or with an I.D. And of course, without and I.D. is totally bankrupt.
God isn't lame. What's lame are those who think God, with the power to create the entire universe, would use something like putting Mary's image on a piece of toast as being a miracle.By implying God does not know how to run his own program, you know better and are saying God would never use weeping statues because that is so lame.
