Here is what I want to know from Democrats at USMB....

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well we've done it with YOUR congress who YOU keep re-electing over and over... implementing YOUR policies... following YOUR game plan. Maybe it has something to do with all those corporations donating huge campaign contributions to the candidates you're gaga over? You think Hillary, who is in the pocket of Wall Street, is going to lay the smack down on them? Dream on, moron!

I think Hillary will do more than any Republican will do. You know what, I seem to remember when her Husband was President, I could send a resume out and have a better paying job in a week. that's what I remember.

You know what, I seem to remember when her Husband was President, I could send a resume out and have a better paying job in a week.

Yeah, the Internet Bubble was cool. I'm not sure what either Clinton did to make it happen.
Do you think they caused it?

 

[Boss]

they've made their money exploiting the people who did the actual work.

I'd love it if you shared your definition of exploit.

Your labor produces a certain value. You don't see that value, but someone else who didn't do it does.

That's exploitation.

Thanks. Happy to have cleared that up for you.

What? Are you some kind of fucking FARM ANIMAL? What the hell do you mean you don't realize your own value? No one is being exploited... if you don't like what you're making, go find a better paying job... one that better appreciates your value! If you can't find one, start your own company and show everyone how fucking valuable you are!

What YOU want is a system where everyone is valued the same... we can't have some people with greater value than others because it wouldn't be fair... and THAT system is North Korea!

 

[Boss]

Actually, I ignored that example because it was retarded, and I didn't want to embarrass you. clearly, no one is going to pay me to dig a hole unless you needed a hole dug there.

EXACTLY! Which is MY point... Which totally destroys YOUR point! Labor has little to do with what creates wealth. It is a part of it... but LOTS and LOTS of things are a part of it. You want to think that the labor "doing all the work" is the ONLY aspect to creating wealth and that is proven demonstrably FALSE by your OWN admission.

 

[Boss]

You see, moron... Creating wealth is about MORE than labor. It does not matter how great you are at assembling cars if there is no one to market them, to sell them, to buy them, etc. Like you digging the hole... it makes you NO money unless you've struck a deal with someone who is willing to pay you to dig a hole. Therefore, these people you claim are being "exploited who did all the work" didn't do all the work. They did some of the work and they were paid for their services. They did so voluntarily because they struck a deal with someone willing to pay for their labor.

Okay, let's look at that example. Cars are probably not a great example, because automakers are unionized and get a reasonable fair share.

But let's look at the value of a car. The guy who sold it to me probably didn't spend more than an hour or two getting me to buy the car. The guys who built it spent dozens of manhours putting it together. Seems to me that they had a lot more to do with getting that car onto the lot for me to buy it.

So what did the 1%er do? oh, that's right, he bought some stock in Ford because their stock was performing well that weak.

The capitalist is a parasite who has convinced you he's a vital organ.

The guy who sold it to me probably didn't spend more than an hour or two getting me to buy the car. The guys who built it spent dozens of manhours putting it together. Seems to me that they had a lot more to do with getting that car onto the lot for me to buy it.

WRONG.... the guys who built it put in hours they were paid for to do a job they were paid to do. They had absolutely NOTHING to do with getting that car onto the lot for you to buy it. That was a truck driver who hauled the car from a distribution center. And you could have never bought it if there hadn't been someone who was willing to build a dealership and front the money to the factory to have the car in his possession. He couldn't have done that without investors and bankers who let him borrow capital. He also had to hire accountants and CPAs to do his taxes and keep his books, pay for advertisements, provide a showroom with a cubicle and phone and pay a salesman to talk to you about the car. He is also paying a crew of mechanics to work on the car and keep you happy as a customer so you'll tell your friends and family and hopefully bring him more business. All these people are doing jobs they are paid to do which they were hired to do.

You're an anti-capitalist MORON who needs to go study up on Chairman Mao's ideas... they FAILED MISERABLY!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You see, moron... Creating wealth is about MORE than labor. It does not matter how great you are at assembling cars if there is no one to market them, to sell them, to buy them, etc. Like you digging the hole... it makes you NO money unless you've struck a deal with someone who is willing to pay you to dig a hole. Therefore, these people you claim are being "exploited who did all the work" didn't do all the work. They did some of the work and they were paid for their services. They did so voluntarily because they struck a deal with someone willing to pay for their labor.

Okay, let's look at that example. Cars are probably not a great example, because automakers are unionized and get a reasonable fair share.

But let's look at the value of a car. The guy who sold it to me probably didn't spend more than an hour or two getting me to buy the car. The guys who built it spent dozens of manhours putting it together. Seems to me that they had a lot more to do with getting that car onto the lot for me to buy it.

So what did the 1%er do? oh, that's right, he bought some stock in Ford because their stock was performing well that weak.

The capitalist is a parasite who has convinced you he's a vital organ.

Okay, so maybe what they should have done is have the workers buy the million dollar buildings in which that car is made. The hundreds of millions of dollars for assembly lines, tow motors, machinery, overhead cranes to build those cars. Then the employees should cough up the millions of dollars in taxes that company has to pay. And pay the tens of thousands of dollars in utility costs.....especially now that DumBama has increased the cost of electricity so much.

Can you union workers do all that? Of course they can't. That's why you have CEO's, investors, accountants, and those evil filthy rich guys to handle all that work.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well we've done it with YOUR congress who YOU keep re-electing over and over... implementing YOUR policies... following YOUR game plan. Maybe it has something to do with all those corporations donating huge campaign contributions to the candidates you're gaga over? You think Hillary, who is in the pocket of Wall Street, is going to lay the smack down on them? Dream on, moron!

I think Hillary will do more than any Republican will do. You know what, I seem to remember when her Husband was President, I could send a resume out and have a better paying job in a week. that's what I remember.

Right, and what you don't remember is who Bill had in leadership of Congress at the time.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

they've made their money exploiting the people who did the actual work.

I'd love it if you shared your definition of exploit.

Your labor produces a certain value. You don't see that value, but someone else who didn't do it does.

That's exploitation.

Thanks. Happy to have cleared that up for you.

The value of an employee is determined by how much a company would have to pay another person to do the same job the same way. Without unions, illegals and foreigners, it would work out perfectly. But Democrats are behind all of those things.

If you sweep floors for a living, anybody can do that job so it pays low. If you turn nuts onto bolts for a living, anybody can do that job so it also pays low wages. To remodel a bathroom, not everybody can do that kind of work, so remodelers make more money than a floor sweeper. If you design buildings for a living, it pays pretty good because many of us could never design a building. If you are a CEO, then you get excellent pay because most of us could not run a company at a profit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's not bullshit, it's happening... are you not paying attention? You've been trying for the last decade to lay the smack down on these assholes and now most of our manufacturing jobs are in China.

NO, we haven't. We've done the exact oppossite of smacking them down. We've given them FUCKING TAX BREAKS to move their factories. We've lowered tarrifs so they can get their slave-labor goods. Heck, we even moved Steve Jobs to the front of the "Get a transplant organ before a poor kid gets it" line.

I WISH we were smacking down the assholes.

There are no tax breaks for moving companies overseas outside of moving deductions which you get if you move out of the country, from one state or another, or even from a neighboring city to another. I've posted the factcheck link here many times. I'll post it again if you desire.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So you think it's okay to steal from the rich simply because they created more wealth than others? If that's so, why stop at money alone?

No, I think it's okay to tax the rich because they've made their money exploiting the people who did the actual work.

Now, if you wanted to support true wealth equality in distribution, we could probably do without a lot of taxation on the rich because we wouldn't need to subsidize the workers at McDonalds or Walmart who are on food stamps or Section 8 housing.

Okay, so a company offers a job that pays X amount of wages and X amount in benefits. An applicant applies for the job, and afterwards accepts the job. Can you explain to me how that is exploitation?

No, I don't want to support wealth equality. We are not equal in our ability to create wealth, act, play a musical instrument, fix a television set, play a sport such as baseball or basketball. Everybody is different.

If you wish to be equal with everybody, move to Cuba. Everybody is equal there; equally poor.

 

[Boss]

You see, moron... Creating wealth is about MORE than labor. It does not matter how great you are at assembling cars if there is no one to market them, to sell them, to buy them, etc. Like you digging the hole... it makes you NO money unless you've struck a deal with someone who is willing to pay you to dig a hole. Therefore, these people you claim are being "exploited who did all the work" didn't do all the work. They did some of the work and they were paid for their services. They did so voluntarily because they struck a deal with someone willing to pay for their labor.

Okay, let's look at that example. Cars are probably not a great example, because automakers are unionized and get a reasonable fair share.

But let's look at the value of a car. The guy who sold it to me probably didn't spend more than an hour or two getting me to buy the car. The guys who built it spent dozens of manhours putting it together. Seems to me that they had a lot more to do with getting that car onto the lot for me to buy it.

So what did the 1%er do? oh, that's right, he bought some stock in Ford because their stock was performing well that weak.

The capitalist is a parasite who has convinced you he's a vital organ.

The guy who sold it to me probably didn't spend more than an hour or two getting me to buy the car. The guys who built it spent dozens of manhours putting it together. Seems to me that they had a lot more to do with getting that car onto the lot for me to buy it.

WRONG.... the guys who built it put in hours they were paid for to do a job they were paid to do. They had absolutely NOTHING to do with getting that car onto the lot for you to buy it. That was a truck driver who hauled the car from a distribution center. And you could have never bought it if there hadn't been someone who was willing to build a dealership and front the money to the factory to have the car in his possession. He couldn't have done that without investors and bankers who let him borrow capital. He also had to hire accountants and CPAs to do his taxes and keep his books, pay for advertisements, provide a showroom with a cubicle and phone and pay a salesman to talk to you about the car. He is also paying a crew of mechanics to work on the car and keep you happy as a customer so you'll tell your friends and family and hopefully bring him more business. All these people are doing jobs they are paid to do which they were hired to do.

You're an anti-capitalist MORON who needs to go study up on Chairman Mao's ideas... they FAILED MISERABLY!

I want to add to this... The guys in the factory assembling the cars... do you think they produced the materials? Where did those come from? The magic material fairy? Were they donated as charity? And what about the tools they used... their own? Or did someone provide tools? Who? What about the building they worked in? What about the actual paycheck they got... did someone contribute the paper, ink, envelopes and figure the calculations and write and distribute said checks? You don't think those contributions matter?

Now that I have demonstrated how there are hundreds of people involved in generating wealth from the sale of a car.... let's objectively look at that mean old factory owner you hate with so much vitriol. His "bottom line" in terms of profit is likely under 10%. It may be a little more or less, but I;m going with 10% for sake of this argument. Now... the guy who worked in the factory to assemble the car... He probably had to drive or take public transportation, buy or pack his lunch, maybe he washed his clothes... he had some expenses to pay out but were his earnings likely more than 10% of his costs? So... HIS "profit margins" are considerably higher than those of the factory owner. Plus... he doesn't risk anything. If the economy gets bad and cars don't sell, he doesn't have to work for free. The factory owner may suffer losses until the economy turns back around. He may also be sued if people get hurt in his factory. What happens if the power goes out? The guy assembling the cars still expects to be paid... he's there, ready to go. So not only is he making a better margin of profit for what he does, he has no risk.

All of these things your simple little mind is failing to realize.

 

[Conservative65]

What's so great about someone that isn't the parent of a kid being forced to pay the taxes that funds what the kid's own parents won't do?

Well, I'd call it INVESTING. Frankly, I want the kids who are going to be making or fixing the things I use to have the skills to do it properly.

I call it pandering.

So you can guarantee a positive return on the investment?

What you don't want is those who had the kids to be responsible for their own kids. What I want is for those like you who think it's such a good investment to pay their tuition with our money. If you believe it is, you shouldn't have a problem doing that.

 

[Conservative65]

We could start there, but then end up with more companies moving out of the country or depending on robots to replace human workers.

Yeah, I've heard that song before. It's bullshit. Time we started smacking down these assholes.

Banks don't lie about the value of mortgages, only government can do that. Banks don't rate securities as to how secure they really are. Your government does.

Actually, technically, securities are rated by Standards and Poors, Moodies and a lot of other private companies... but that's okay, you're learning.

Who is the we you say should do the smackdown. You've said I shouldn't own gun but won't show your cowardly ass up to try and fail in doing so. What the hell are you going to do pussy, sit behind a computer and say it should be done?

 

[Conservative65]

YOU said, "I like Bernie Sanders and think his proposals would be great for the country". One of his proposals is college tuition. It addresses what you posted unless you're going to say Bernie doesn't support that.

Difference is you support things for which no constitutional authority is delegated.

Free education for all is what made this country great

Used to be eighth grade was good enough, then High School......now it looks like college

Bernie is ahead of the power curve

Then let Bernie and the Democrats pay for it.

Cool

And let's make anyone who supports war pay for it

No, we all need to pay for our military because in our US Constitution, the federal government is supposed to protect it's citizens; nothing in there about sending them to college.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention empire building around the globe

Has nothing to do with a common defense

It's your opinion that we are.

Funding of the military is a delegated power in the Constitution. Funding college because some piece of shit parent won't do it for his/her kid isn't.

 

[Conservative65]

What's so great about someone that isn't the parent of a kid being forced to pay the taxes that funds what the kid's own parents won't do?

What on earth does that have to do what I posted?

You don't support every expenditure your tax dollars go to? Well....welcome to the club

YOU said, "I like Bernie Sanders and think his proposals would be great for the country". One of his proposals is college tuition. It addresses what you posted unless you're going to say Bernie doesn't support that.

Difference is you support things for which no constitutional authority is delegated.

Free education for all is what made this country great

Used to be eighth grade was good enough, then High School......now it looks like college

Bernie is ahead of the power curve

Then let Bernie and the Democrats pay for it.

Cool

And let's make anyone who supports war pay for it

When the part about going to war and funding the military is taken out of the Constitution, fine.

Just as I thought, you hate the Constitution when it says something you don't want to do. The sad thing is you think things that you want are in there and cry like a bitch about people not agreeing with you. What, Whaa, Whaa.

 

[JoeB131]

Your labor produces a certain value. You don't see that value, but someone else who didn't do it does.

What is the certain value?
Do you mean value added?
Can you give an example of what you mean?

I think that statement speaks for itself and I'm not going to engage in your sophistry. Thanks for playing.

 

[JoeB131]

You know what, I seem to remember when her Husband was President, I could send a resume out and have a better paying job in a week.

Yeah, the Internet Bubble was cool. I'm not sure what either Clinton did to make it happen.
Do you think they caused it?

My job had nothing to do with the internet. Again, thanks for playing.

 

[JoeB131]

The value of an employee is determined by how much a company would have to pay another person to do the same job the same way. Without unions, illegals and foreigners, it would work out perfectly. But Democrats are behind all of those things.

Uh, no, guy, the 1%ers are behind using foreigners and illegals and union busting to cheat the people who do the actual work. You really are a stupid person, aren't you?

If you sweep floors for a living, anybody can do that job so it pays low. If you turn nuts onto bolts for a living, anybody can do that job so it also pays low wages. To remodel a bathroom, not everybody can do that kind of work, so remodelers make more money than a floor sweeper. If you design buildings for a living, it pays pretty good because many of us could never design a building. If you are a CEO, then you get excellent pay because most of us could not run a company at a profit.

You ALMOST had a good argument until that last sentence. The problem with OUR system is that the CEO gets excellent pay even if runs his company into the ground. The Asshole who ran GM before the government had to bail it out got an EIGHT FIGURE Salary and a large buyout package. The Asshole who ran Cigna got a NINE figure retirement package after he disgraced his company by denying a teenage girl an operation. (She died.)

So here's an idea. Yes, the CEO should make more than the floor sweeper. But the FLoor Sweeper should make enough to feed his family, and the CEO should not be making obscene amounts of money totally divorced from his actual performance..

So while an American CEO makes 400 times what a line worker makes, a Japanese CEO only makes 40 times what a line worker makes. That actually seems a lot more reasonable and fair.

Waiting for Boss to scream "EEEEEEK< Communism!!!!"

 

[JoeB131]

I call it pandering.

So you can guarantee a positive return on the investment?

What you don't want is those who had the kids to be responsible for their own kids. What I want is for those like you who think it's such a good investment to pay their tuition with our money. If you believe it is, you shouldn't have a problem doing that.

Cleetus, you don't make enough money to pay any taxes as a Possum Catcher. I probably pay more taxes than you do.

Yes, I am all for paying my taxes. Why I could lie my ass off about how much my side business made last year, I will report every dollar and pay my full amount on schedule C.

The rich should pay their fair share. It's called Democracy, not socialism.

 

[JoeB131]

Who is the we you say should do the smackdown. You've said I shouldn't own gun but won't show your cowardly ass up to try and fail in doing so. What the hell are you going to do pussy, sit behind a computer and say it should be done?

No, guy, I will vote for the guy most likely to deliver the smackdown.

Hey, check it out, BOTH parties have frontrunners right now that are going to deliver a smackdown on the outsourcers. just a matter of deciding which one is actually sincere.

 

[Conservative65]

Who is the we you say should do the smackdown. You've said I shouldn't own gun but won't show your cowardly ass up to try and fail in doing so. What the hell are you going to do pussy, sit behind a computer and say it should be done?

No, guy, I will vote for the guy most likely to deliver the smackdown.

Hey, check it out, BOTH parties have frontrunners right now that are going to deliver a smackdown on the outsourcers. just a matter of deciding which one is actually sincere.

So the gutless Liberal won't do himself what he says.