'Hidden History' That Was Staring You In The Face

[Moonglow]

FDR was a folly, his asinine policy prolonged the depression and the only thing that saved him then was WWII.

The rest of the world was in a long lasting depression also, were their leaders the fool also....??

Any good economics professor will tell you FDR policy only prolonged the depression and the only thing that saved his socialist ass was WWII.

And the other govts. in the world that suffered the same fate did it on purpose also?

I'm discussing FDR's failed policy, I realize you're a FDR loving window licker but the man was a failure at economic policy Read FDR's Folly, it spells it out in black and white but it's you so it may be over the little point on the top of our head

I am more of a truth finder than a lover, yes FDR had some issues, there is no administration in US history which didn't..Yet the previous administrations after WWI fundamentally created the conditions that led to the Great Depression....Yet we do not see that in your assessments or Policlick's...

 

[Moonglow]

FDR was a folly, his asinine policy prolonged the depression and the only thing that saved him then was WWII.

An idea distorted, twisted and totally relying on misinformation.

You're in the minority, read FDR's Folly, once you do you'll understand he was as clueless as Obungles is.

Hoover seemed clueless to ending the depression, along with Calvin Coolidge....Calvin had farm prices dropping like a rock during his term and did nothing..............

Again I am discussing FDR, stop running around flapping your teeny little girly arms and deflecting.

Are you incapable of discussion without inflammatory rhetoric?

 

[Grizz]

With all due respect I'll take the word of a man who was there and helped orchestrate the policies over the opinions of those who feel the need to use revisionist history try and paint a better picture of their failed idols.

Unemployment in the Great Depression peaked in FDR's FIRST year, 1933, a year btw that FDR wasn't president until March.

LOL, not the point now is it? I know that you are trying to deflect but that does 't work with me.

"I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started"

What was the unemployment rate in 1940 then?

You are a source of never ending humor kid.
You can't get around what Morgenthau said, I know you feel you need to, but you can't.
HE was not only there, HE was instrumental in the implementation of the policies. HE said they didn't work.
I'm sorry, I know it stings a bit but there you have it.

You want to stick to the claim that UE was the same in 1933 as in 1940?

Then dispute this.

or this

There you go again, trying to change the point of the conversation. Morgenthau said that they "failed", you'll have to take that up with him, not me. I'm just quoting him.
As for the numbers"

Year Rate
1934 21.7
1936 16.9
1938 19.0
1940 14.6

United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2013

As you can see for a number of years they remained fairly static, in 40 as we started to ramp up the War effort it did start to turn around. Morgenthau, you remember him...the guy who implemented the New Deal? He said that they and their policies FAILED.
Again, I know it stings a bit but you'll be ok.

 

[NYcarbineer]

A bit about Morgenthau...

"Morgenthau was unable to persuade Roosevelt to desist from continued deficit spending. Roosevelt continued to push for more spending, and Morgenthau promoted a balanced budget. In 1937,

however, Morgenthau successfully convinced Roosevelt to finally focus on balancing the budget through major spending cuts and tax increases; Keynesian economists have argued that this new attempt by Roosevelt to balance the budget created the Recession of 1937.[9]"

So Roosevelt took Morgenthau's ADVICE in 1937, and there went the country back into recession.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Unemployment in the Great Depression peaked in FDR's FIRST year, 1933, a year btw that FDR wasn't president until March.

LOL, not the point now is it? I know that you are trying to deflect but that does 't work with me.

"I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started"

What was the unemployment rate in 1940 then?

You are a source of never ending humor kid.
You can't get around what Morgenthau said, I know you feel you need to, but you can't.
HE was not only there, HE was instrumental in the implementation of the policies. HE said they didn't work.
I'm sorry, I know it stings a bit but there you have it.

You want to stick to the claim that UE was the same in 1933 as in 1940?

Then dispute this.

or this

There you go again, trying to change the point of the conversation. Morgenthau said that they "failed", you'll have to take that up with him, not me. I'm just quoting him.
As for the numbers"

Year Rate
1934 21.7
1936 16.9
1938 19.0
1940 14.6

United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2013

As you can see for a number of years they remained fairly static, in 40 as we started to ramp up the War effort it did start to turn around. Morgenthau, you remember him...the guy who implemented the New Deal? He said that they and their policies FAILED.
Again, I know it stings a bit but you'll be ok.

1. Why did you leave out 1933?

2. How is an 10 point decrease in the UE rate remaining static?

WTF?

 

[Grizz]

LOL, not the point now is it? I know that you are trying to deflect but that does 't work with me.

"I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started"

What was the unemployment rate in 1940 then?

You are a source of never ending humor kid.
You can't get around what Morgenthau said, I know you feel you need to, but you can't.
HE was not only there, HE was instrumental in the implementation of the policies. HE said they didn't work.
I'm sorry, I know it stings a bit but there you have it.

You want to stick to the claim that UE was the same in 1933 as in 1940?

Then dispute this.

or this

There you go again, trying to change the point of the conversation. Morgenthau said that they "failed", you'll have to take that up with him, not me. I'm just quoting him.
As for the numbers"

Year Rate
1934 21.7
1936 16.9
1938 19.0
1940 14.6

United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2013

As you can see for a number of years they remained fairly static, in 40 as we started to ramp up the War effort it did start to turn around. Morgenthau, you remember him...the guy who implemented the New Deal? He said that they and their policies FAILED.
Again, I know it stings a bit but you'll be ok.

1. Why did you leave out 1933?

2. How is an 10 point decrease in the UE rate remaining static?

WTF?

Hell, lets put 32 AND 33 in there, it changes nothing. You are much to high strung son.


1932 23.6
1934 21.7

Calm down kid.

 

[regent]

FDR was a folly, his asinine policy prolonged the depression and the only thing that saved him then was WWII.

The rest of the world was in a long lasting depression also, were their leaders the fool also....??

Any good economics professor will tell you FDR policy only prolonged the depression and the only thing that saved his socialist ass was WWII.

FDR was a folly, his asinine policy prolonged the depression and the only thing that saved him then was WWII.

How does a balanced budget cure a depression?:
So how did the war cure the Great Depression?

 

[Camp]

A bit about Morgenthau...

"Morgenthau was unable to persuade Roosevelt to desist from continued deficit spending. Roosevelt continued to push for more spending, and Morgenthau promoted a balanced budget. In 1937,

however, Morgenthau successfully convinced Roosevelt to finally focus on balancing the budget through major spending cuts and tax increases; Keynesian economists have argued that this new attempt by Roosevelt to balance the budget created the Recession of 1937.[9]"

So Roosevelt took Morgenthau's ADVICE in 1937, and there went the country back into recession.

Morgenthau immediately followed his quote so often used as it has been here with a criticism of FDR for not raising taxes on wealthy Americans.

 

[Camp]

What was the unemployment rate in 1940 then?

You are a source of never ending humor kid.
You can't get around what Morgenthau said, I know you feel you need to, but you can't.
HE was not only there, HE was instrumental in the implementation of the policies. HE said they didn't work.
I'm sorry, I know it stings a bit but there you have it.

You want to stick to the claim that UE was the same in 1933 as in 1940?

Then dispute this.

or this

There you go again, trying to change the point of the conversation. Morgenthau said that they "failed", you'll have to take that up with him, not me. I'm just quoting him.
As for the numbers"

Year Rate
1934 21.7
1936 16.9
1938 19.0
1940 14.6

United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2013

As you can see for a number of years they remained fairly static, in 40 as we started to ramp up the War effort it did start to turn around. Morgenthau, you remember him...the guy who implemented the New Deal? He said that they and their policies FAILED.
Again, I know it stings a bit but you'll be ok.

1. Why did you leave out 1933?

2. How is an 10 point decrease in the UE rate remaining static?

WTF?

Hell, lets put 32 AND 33 in there, it changes nothing. You are much to high strung son.


1932 23.6
1934 21.7

Calm down kid.

Again, you are using the faulty Lebergott method of calculating unemployment that does not include those working on New Deal programs, but still shows a decrease in unemployment under FDR. BTW, FDR was not in office in 1932 and only came into office in March of 1933. Your link shows that unemployment immediately went down even when using the faulty method of actual unemployment. Unemployment went down in both private industry and actual unemployment.
Of course, you have no clue about what the Lebergott method is or means.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

This passage is from a political party platform from a past presidential election;

"We believe that a party platform is a covenant with the people to be faithfully kept by the party entrusted with power." It called for a 25-percent reduction in federal spending, a balanced federal budget,...the removal of government from areas that belonged more appropriately to private enterprise, and an end to the "extravagance"...

Boy, those Republicans have sure been preaching the same gospel for a long time, right? WRONG! That was from the 1932 platform of the Democratic party! It can be found in an essay that has already been cited a number of times on this thread; FDR's Folly! http://sovereignproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/FDRS-FOLLY-THE-NEW-DEAL.pdf

Just as the Democrats ignored those promises to the people during the Great Depression, the Republicans have made the same bloody promises since at least Nixon's abbreviated tenure with non-delivery, and return to sender stamped on the package post election! Continue to drink the shit sundaes free of charge from your political propaganda purveyor of choice, but when both are saying the same fucking things and neither are delivering, guess who is being laughed at! You can compare one bad President or party to yet another bad President or party and argue one is more dastardly than the other all day long until the bloody cows come home, but the only thing that will remain valid in all cases is that both are/were freakin' bad!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Voters hated Hoover and his attempts to solve the Great Depression, yet loved what FDR did....All the threads from Polislick can't change that fact.....

It's quite amusing really. Thread after thread trying to rewrite history. It will never work.

I told you, you are dismissed.

You've served your purpose....and now you've returned to look even dumber????

Where is the re-write of history?

Everything I post is linked, sourced and documented.


What 'facts' have I changed?


Take your time.

You lied about FDR being responsible for starting the Great Depression.

I never lie.


As you have inadvertently verified, everything I posted about your demigod is true and correct.


More coming.

 

[PoliticalChic]

This is the normal kind of dishonesty and method used by the poster. She plants seeds of misinformation that may seem small, but are in fact very significant in shaping her overall thesis. In this case and example, she is attempting to place the causes and blame of the Great Depression on FDR and make it appear that he created it instead of the true fact that he inherited it. It began years before he came into office in 1933 with the stock market crash of 1929 and the forced closure of thousands of banks that could not pay those who had deposited money in those thousands of banks. One-fourth of the population was unemployed when FDR took office, but the OP does not want the reader to recognize that the Great Depression began long before FDR came into the picture. It is easy enough to confirm when the Great Depression began. You don't have to read a lot. Just look it up and see what date is given as the beginning or start of it. Then, look up FDR and notice the date of his first term in office. Four years difference. The Great Depression was in full swing for four years before FDR got the chance to turn it around, which is what he did.

"Henry Morgenthau Jr."
was the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury during the administration of Franklin D. Roosevelt. He played a major role in designing and financing the New Deal.


"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot"

Henry Morgenthau Jr. - Wikipedia.

Morgenthau was wrong about the unemployment numbers. He subscribed to a method of calculating that did not include the millions working and collecting paychecks from New Deal programs. All those workers collecting paychecks for constructing bridges, highways, hospitals, schools, airports, bridges, tunnels and other infrastructure were counted as "on relief" because their paychecks were from government agencies or contracts. The thousands of little brick post offices still being used today all across America were built by "unemployed workers" if Morgenthau's method of calculating is used. The method Morgenthau used only counted those unemployed from private industry. That method meant that if person got a job building the Lincoln Tunnel or the Golden Gate Bridge, a dam in the TVA system or the Blue Ridge Parkway instead of a factory, they were unemployed.

With all due respect I'll take the word of a man who was there and helped orchestrate the policies over the opinions of those who feel the need to use revisionist history try and paint a better picture of their failed idols.

Unemployment in the Great Depression peaked in FDR's FIRST year, 1933, a year btw that FDR wasn't president until March.

Over 5,000 banks had been forced into closure before FDR became President, leaving the depositors broke and unable to retrieve their funds.

Banks????

Banks????

Economist Jim Powell of the Cato Institute authored a splendid book on the Great Depression in 2003, titled “FDR’s Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression.”

Get this: “Almost all the failed banks were in states with unit banking laws” — laws that prohibited banks from opening branches and thereby diversifying their portfolios and reducing their risks. Powell writes:

'Although the United States, with its unit banking laws, had thousands of bank
failures, Canada, which permitted branch banking, didn’t have a single failure ...'




Strangely, critics of capitalism who love to blame the market for the Depression never mention that fact."
Jim Powell, "FDR’s Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression, p. 32.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Voters hated Hoover and his attempts to solve the Great Depression, yet loved what FDR did....All the threads from Polislick can't change that fact.....

I don't see any denial in your post, of the facts that I presented:

1. There were dozens of earlier recessions....they lasted 1-3 years.

2. Only through FDR's tireless efforts do we find a decade long Depression.

And....other nations came out of the Depression earlier for the simple reason that they didn't have FDR in the driver's seat.

3. The best explanation is that Roosevelt wanted to keep the Depression going....so he could end the guidance of the Constitution.


And you say?

The redundancy of your futile efforts to try and prove that humans are perfect is a great example for all the administrations....And another thing, hindsight is 20-20....When walking in the present one or many must take a step on a calculated risk, which is more difficult..The country loved FDR and what he was trying to do to help the working American.......The end result was one of winning a war on two fronts, a most august and honorable action....And it was done by the imperfect person you try to degrade, which will never stick to the American psyche today....Because love is greater than hate...and the glory associated with it smothers the imperfection...FDR will retain his number one ranking among American presidents because that is where he belongs,, although I believe that George Washington deserves it...

1. "....your futile efforts to try and prove that humans are perfect is a great example for all the administrations.."

Not all humans.....just me.

And....did you miss this?
I don't see any denial in your post, of the facts that I presented:

1. There were dozens of earlier recessions....they lasted 1-3 years.

2. Only through FDR's tireless efforts do we find a decade long Depression.

And....other nations came out of the Depression earlier for the simple reason that they didn't have FDR in the driver's seat.

3. The best explanation is that Roosevelt wanted to keep the Depression going....so he could end the guidance of the Constitution.


And you say?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Voters hated Hoover and his attempts to solve the Great Depression, yet loved what FDR did....All the threads from Polislick can't change that fact.....

I don't see any denial in your post, of the facts that I presented:

1. There were dozens of earlier recessions....they lasted 1-3 years.

2. Only through FDR's tireless efforts do we find a decade long Depression.

And....other nations came out of the Depression earlier for the simple reason that they didn't have FDR in the driver's seat.

3. The best explanation is that Roosevelt wanted to keep the Depression going....so he could end the guidance of the Constitution.


And you say?

The redundancy of your futile efforts to try and prove that humans are perfect is a great example for all the administrations....And another thing, hindsight is 20-20....When walking in the present one or many must take a step on a calculated risk, which is more difficult..The country loved FDR and what he was trying to do to help the working American.......The end result was one of winning a war on two fronts, a most august and honorable action....And it was done by the imperfect person you try to degrade, which will never stick to the American psyche today....Because love is greater than hate...and the glory associated with it smothers the imperfection...FDR will retain his number one ranking among American presidents because that is where he belongs,, although I believe that George Washington deserves it...

".The end result was one of winning a war on two fronts,...

By turning over control of the war effort to Stalin, FDR mismanaged the war in the same way as the economy.....and extended same by 2-3 years, with commensurate cost in blood and treasure.


True story.

 

[Grizz]

You are a source of never ending humor kid.
You can't get around what Morgenthau said, I know you feel you need to, but you can't.
HE was not only there, HE was instrumental in the implementation of the policies. HE said they didn't work.
I'm sorry, I know it stings a bit but there you have it.

You want to stick to the claim that UE was the same in 1933 as in 1940?

Then dispute this.

or this

There you go again, trying to change the point of the conversation. Morgenthau said that they "failed", you'll have to take that up with him, not me. I'm just quoting him.
As for the numbers"

Year Rate
1934 21.7
1936 16.9
1938 19.0
1940 14.6

United States Unemployment Rate 1920–2013

As you can see for a number of years they remained fairly static, in 40 as we started to ramp up the War effort it did start to turn around. Morgenthau, you remember him...the guy who implemented the New Deal? He said that they and their policies FAILED.
Again, I know it stings a bit but you'll be ok.

1. Why did you leave out 1933?

2. How is an 10 point decrease in the UE rate remaining static?

WTF?

Hell, lets put 32 AND 33 in there, it changes nothing. You are much to high strung son.


1932 23.6
1934 21.7

Calm down kid.

Again, you are using the faulty Lebergott method of calculating unemployment that does not include those working on New Deal programs, but still shows a decrease in unemployment under FDR. BTW, FDR was not in office in 1932 and only came into office in March of 1933. Your link shows that unemployment immediately went down even when using the faulty method of actual unemployment. Unemployment went down in both private industry and actual unemployment.
Of course, you have no clue about what the Lebergott method is or means.

Yawn. I think it's instructive that you folks simply cannot stand the truth about FDR. In 40 when we started ramping up for the War the economy began to recover. It's just that simple, it's also a simple truth that Morgenthau admitted that their policies did not work.
You can't change it, you can't wish it away and you can't "splain" it away.
It is what it is nd you'll simply have to live with it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Henry Morgenthau Jr."
was the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury during the administration of Franklin D. Roosevelt. He played a major role in designing and financing the New Deal.


"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot"

Henry Morgenthau Jr. - Wikipedia.

Morgenthau was wrong about the unemployment numbers. He subscribed to a method of calculating that did not include the millions working and collecting paychecks from New Deal programs. All those workers collecting paychecks for constructing bridges, highways, hospitals, schools, airports, bridges, tunnels and other infrastructure were counted as "on relief" because their paychecks were from government agencies or contracts. The thousands of little brick post offices still being used today all across America were built by "unemployed workers" if Morgenthau's method of calculating is used. The method Morgenthau used only counted those unemployed from private industry. That method meant that if person got a job building the Lincoln Tunnel or the Golden Gate Bridge, a dam in the TVA system or the Blue Ridge Parkway instead of a factory, they were unemployed.

With all due respect I'll take the word of a man who was there and helped orchestrate the policies over the opinions of those who feel the need to use revisionist history try and paint a better picture of their failed idols.

Unemployment in the Great Depression peaked in FDR's FIRST year, 1933, a year btw that FDR wasn't president until March.

LOL, not the point now is it? I know that you are trying to deflect but that does 't work with me.

"I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started"

Which is the fault of a lack of incentive, like the computer boom that Reagan enjoyed....

Did you mention the great Ronald Reagan....the one who reversed the gains that FDR handed to Soviet communism????

Gee....why does that always upset Liberals?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Henry Morgenthau Jr."
was the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury during the administration of Franklin D. Roosevelt. He played a major role in designing and financing the New Deal.


"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot"

Henry Morgenthau Jr. - Wikipedia.

Morgenthau was wrong about the unemployment numbers. He subscribed to a method of calculating that did not include the millions working and collecting paychecks from New Deal programs. All those workers collecting paychecks for constructing bridges, highways, hospitals, schools, airports, bridges, tunnels and other infrastructure were counted as "on relief" because their paychecks were from government agencies or contracts. The thousands of little brick post offices still being used today all across America were built by "unemployed workers" if Morgenthau's method of calculating is used. The method Morgenthau used only counted those unemployed from private industry. That method meant that if person got a job building the Lincoln Tunnel or the Golden Gate Bridge, a dam in the TVA system or the Blue Ridge Parkway instead of a factory, they were unemployed.

With all due respect I'll take the word of a man who was there and helped orchestrate the policies over the opinions of those who feel the need to use revisionist history try and paint a better picture of their failed idols.

Unemployment in the Great Depression peaked in FDR's FIRST year, 1933, a year btw that FDR wasn't president until March.

LOL, not the point now is it? I know that you are trying to deflect but that does 't work with me.

"I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started"

You're going to whine about deflection and then bring up a topic 85 years removed from the OP topic of rewriting the history of FDR?

Soooo....who is more of a loser....you or FDR?

 

[Grizz]

We also get it, you have latched on to Lebergott's methods because they support your "theory". You do realize that many others do not? Of course you do, but that is not germane to your need to defend ole Franklin.
Let me help you here.....

"Lebergott joined the Bureau of Labor Statistics in 1940. He compiled historical unemployment statistics for the time period between 1890 and the 1950s, and his statistics were widely popularized until Christina Romer and others found flaws in them and accordingly modified them."

Stanley Lebergott - Wikipedia

 

[PoliticalChic]

FDR was a folly, his asinine policy prolonged the depression and the only thing that saved him then was WWII.

The rest of the world was in a long lasting depression also, were their leaders the fool also....??
The only countries not in a depression though were the communist, fascists and Nazis..They must have not been playing the fool's folly, eh?

Wrong again.

Roosevelt groupies might contend that it that Franklin Roosevelt wasn't a poor manager, after all, wasn't the Depression a worldwide phenomenon???


Let's see.

The League of Nations collected data from many nations throughout the 1930s on industrial production, unemployment, national debt, and taxes.
How did Roosevelt's United States compare with other countries?

In all four of these key indexes the United States did very poorly, almost worse than any other nation in the study.

Most European nations handled the Great Depression better than the United States.

World Economic Survey: Eighth Year, 1938/1939 (Geneva: League of Nations, 1939) p.128, quoted in "New Deal or Raw Deal?: How FDR's Economic Legacy Has Damaged America," by Burton W. Folsom Jr




So...not only did the "great" Emperor Franklin the First manage to extend and magnify the depression, but he couldn't compete with the leaders of most European nations.


"Great" seems to have developed a new definition.



Aren't you astounded at how much I know?
Maybe you should pick up a book that doesn't require Crayolas.

 

[Moonglow]

Morgenthau was wrong about the unemployment numbers. He subscribed to a method of calculating that did not include the millions working and collecting paychecks from New Deal programs. All those workers collecting paychecks for constructing bridges, highways, hospitals, schools, airports, bridges, tunnels and other infrastructure were counted as "on relief" because their paychecks were from government agencies or contracts. The thousands of little brick post offices still being used today all across America were built by "unemployed workers" if Morgenthau's method of calculating is used. The method Morgenthau used only counted those unemployed from private industry. That method meant that if person got a job building the Lincoln Tunnel or the Golden Gate Bridge, a dam in the TVA system or the Blue Ridge Parkway instead of a factory, they were unemployed.

With all due respect I'll take the word of a man who was there and helped orchestrate the policies over the opinions of those who feel the need to use revisionist history try and paint a better picture of their failed idols.

Unemployment in the Great Depression peaked in FDR's FIRST year, 1933, a year btw that FDR wasn't president until March.

LOL, not the point now is it? I know that you are trying to deflect but that does 't work with me.

"I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started"

Which is the fault of a lack of incentive, like the computer boom that Reagan enjoyed....

Did you mention the great Ronald Reagan....the one who reversed the gains that FDR handed to Soviet communism????

Gee....why does that always upset Liberals?

Reagan was good in his own way, yet he himself did not influence the moral conflict the Soviet leadership confronted to change the status quo of how the USSR was ran..That was done by Russian leaders themselves...