Hillary says NRA needs a "rival" organization of responsible gun owners

[BULLDOG]

NYcarbineer Nine states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington) and DC require universal background checks at the point of sale for all transfers of all classes of firearms, including purchases from unlicensed sellers; Maryland andPennsylvania do the same for handgun ...

wow, 9 out of 50.

 

[rightwinger]

I agree! She said this in an interview with Chris Matthews on MSNBC earlier this evening. I was an NRA member and strong supporter for several years - until it was hijacked by radicals in 1977. I would like to see a "rival" organization like the NRA was before it was hijacked by radicals.

How NRA’s true believers converted a marksmanship group into a mighty gun lobby

In gun lore it’s known as the Revolt at Cincinnati. On May 21, 1977, and into the morning of May 22, a rump caucus of gun rights radicals took over the annual meeting of the National Rifle Association.

The rebels wore orange-blaze hunting caps. They spoke on walkie-talkies as they worked the floor of the sweltering convention hall. They suspected that the NRA leaders had turned off the air-conditioning in hopes that the rabble-rousers would lose enthusiasm.

The Old Guard was caught by surprise. The NRA officers sat up front, on a dais, observing their demise. The organization, about a century old already, was thoroughly mainstream and bipartisan, focusing on hunting, conservation and marksmanship. It taught Boy Scouts how to shoot safely. But the world had changed, and everything was more political now. The rebels saw the NRA leaders as elites who lacked the heart and conviction to fight against gun-control legislation.

Much More: How NRA’s true believers converted a marksmanship group into a mighty gun lobby

I remember the NRA in the 60s
It was about hunting, target shooting, gun safety and responsible ownership

They found out there was more money to be made in "Gubmints going to take your guns" send us $$$$

 

[BULLDOG]

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

No you can't. If you do, you've just committed a felony.

Not if he doesn't know the buyer is a felon, and in many places, he doesn't have to determine that.

If the seller sold a firearm to a felon, he just committed an illegal act. Both parties just committed a felony. If that felon committed a crime with that gun, the seller of that gun is liable and accountable. Personally, I would never sell a gun without a bill of sale.

Your bill of sale is your choice. I have no obligation to find out if the buyer of my gun can legally buy it, and I have no responsibility for what he might do with it, unless i have prior knowledge that he is not allowed a gun. I have no obligation to have or determine that prior knowledge.

 

[Geaux4it]

NYcarbineer Nine states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington) and DC require universal background checks at the point of sale for all transfers of all classes of firearms, including purchases from unlicensed sellers; Maryland andPennsylvania do the same for handgun ...

wow, 9 out of 50.

And that is 9 too many. But your comment is a different discussion. I was admonishing the NY for being ignorant to current laws in some liberal states

-Geaux

 

[nat4900]

NYcarbineer Nine states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington) and DC require universal background checks at the point of sale for all transfers of all classes of firearms, including purchases from unlicensed sellers; Maryland andPennsylvania do the same for handgun ...

wow, 9 out of 50.

Paraphrasing our beloved Trump, there's not a BIG OCEAN separating our 48 contiguous states.......Any state law is ineffective in stopping illegal gun purchases....any such law MUST be federal to be effective.

 

[BULLDOG]

Add you to the list of people who believe that special interest lobbyists should run America.

Since when is defending a guaranteed right a special interest?

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

Why do you support the arming of felons? You seem to.

I'm just saying what the law allows. We need universal background checks to close the loopholes allowing me or you to sell guns to felons.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

No you can't. If you do, you've just committed a felony.

Each state already has background checks.

Force a Federal standard and feed it to a Federal database for compliance auditing.

we do have a federal background check

That doesn't apply to private sales.

Yes it does. States like California, and there are likely others, prohibit private gun sales without a BG check. Quit spreading false information

-Geaux

good point

by nature leftards lie

California is not the federal government. duh

 

[NYcarbineer]

Nope.There are lots of us ex-NRA members who want nothing more than reasonable controls on who gets guns. Gun owners are not the problem. Gun nuts are.

We already have reasonable restrictions.

Felons can't buy guns
The adjudicated mentally ill can't buy guns
Automatic weapons are highly restricted

What we need is enforcement of these restrictions and stiff mandatory sentences for any crime involving firearms

What we need is universal background checks so individuals will know if they are selling a gun to a felon, or mentally ill person.

Universal background checks, universal training and licensing of owners-users, universal registration of firearms, and regulation of peripherals and ammunition.

I don't see a problem with those things in some form perhaps in the future, but Universal Background checks for now would be great.

And they don't infringe on anyone's rights. They infringe on those who no longer have the right.

 

[dturner1157]

Since when is defending a guaranteed right a special interest?

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

Why do you support the arming of felons? You seem to.

I'm just saying what the law allows. We need universal background checks to close the loopholes allowing me or you to sell guns to felons.

If you are suggesting that all gun sales (including private) require a background check, then I agree.
Not many are stupid enough to commit crimes with a gun that is registered to them.
Most crime is committed with unregistered guns, Either stolen, or from an undocumented sale.

 

[BULLDOG]

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

If that gun that you sold was involved in a violent crime the sale would not be legal.
And why do you support arming Felons?

I don't support arming felons. Without universal background checks, I have no obligation to know who I am selling a gun to. I don't even have to ask their name.

Private Gun Sale Laws by State - FindLaw

You really should look at your own link. More states have no requirement for background checks on individual sales.

 

[BULLDOG]

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

No you can't. If you do, you've just committed a felony.

Restrictions on private sales in Texas are all based on prior knowledge of the buyer being disallowed to buy the gun. However,there is no requirement for any prior knowledge by the seller of the buyer, and without a background check, there is no way to gain that knowledge.

Private Sales in Texas | Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
Private Sales in Texas
Last updated November 15, 2016.


See our Private Sales policy summary for a comprehensive discussion of this issue.

Texas has no law requiring a background check on the purchaser of a firearm when the seller is not a licensed dealer. Texas law does, however, state that a person commits a Class A misdemeanor if he or she:

• Sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered intends to use it unlawfully or in the commission of an unlawful act;

• Intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give a firearm to any child younger than age 18. It is an affirmative defense to this charge that the transfer was to a minor whose parent or legal custodian had given written permission for the sale or, if the transfer was other than a sale, the parent or legal custodian had given effective consent. This offense rises to the level of a “state jail felony” (the lowest class of felony under state law) if the firearm involved is a handgun;

• Intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly sells a firearm or ammunition to any person who is intoxicated;

• Knowingly sells a firearm or ammunition to any person who has been convicted of a felony before the fifth anniversary of the later of: 1) the person’s release from confinement following conviction of the felony; or 2) the person’s release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision following conviction of the felony;

• Sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that an active protective order is directed to the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered; or

• Knowingly purchases, rents, leases, or receives as a loan or gift a handgun while an active protective order is directed to the person.1

One state.

Look at all the states and you'll see that many if not most state that it is illegal to sell any firearm to anyone legally prohibited to buy a firearm.

Read your own link dumb ass.

 

[BULLDOG]

Nope.There are lots of us ex-NRA members who want nothing more than reasonable controls on who gets guns. Gun owners are not the problem. Gun nuts are.

We already have reasonable restrictions.

Felons can't buy guns
The adjudicated mentally ill can't buy guns
Automatic weapons are highly restricted

What we need is enforcement of these restrictions and stiff mandatory sentences for any crime involving firearms

What we need is universal background checks so individuals will know if they are selling a gun to a felon, or mentally ill person.

You do know that it is illegal in most if not all states to sell a gun to anyone legally ineligible don't you?

And in all honesty private sales and transfers are not where most illegally obtained guns come from

Only if you know they are ineligible. How you gonna know that without a background check?

It is up to the seller to find out in many if not most states as the laws state that it is illegal to sell to anyone to anyone not allowed to own a firearm.

No it's not. That would require a background check. Read your own link to find out how few of them are available.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The best argument for closing the background check loopholes is the simple fact that no one has a good argument against it.

 

[BULLDOG]

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

Why do you support the arming of felons? You seem to.

I'm just saying what the law allows. We need universal background checks to close the loopholes allowing me or you to sell guns to felons.

If you are suggesting that all gun sales (including private) require a background check, then I agree.
Not many are stupid enough to commit crimes with a gun that is registered to them.
Most crime is committed with unregistered guns, Either stolen, or from an undocumented sale.

Yes I'm suggesting universal background checks. However, background checks and registration are not the same thing. Licensed Dealers regularly run background checks without registration or almost any kind of recordkeeping. The NRA owned congress made sure of that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

Why do you support the arming of felons? You seem to.

I'm just saying what the law allows. We need universal background checks to close the loopholes allowing me or you to sell guns to felons.

If you are suggesting that all gun sales (including private) require a background check, then I agree.
Not many are stupid enough to commit crimes with a gun that is registered to them.
Most crime is committed with unregistered guns, Either stolen, or from an undocumented sale.

Yes I'm suggesting universal background checks. However, background checks and registration are not the same thing. Licensed Dealers regularly run background checks without registration or almost any kind of recordkeeping. The NRA owned congress made sure of that.

There's a degree of de facto registration with every gun purchase from a licensed seller in that if the need be they can trace a gun you bought back to you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Since when is defending a guaranteed right a special interest?

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

No you can't.

if you do you have broken the law

Only if I know they are a felon. How am I supposed to know that?

The laws in many if not most states as mine does state that it is ILLEGAL to sell to ANYONE prohibited by law from owning a firearm.
So it is up to YOU to find out. You find out by brokering your sale through a local FFL dealer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

NYcarbineer Nine states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington) and DC require universal background checks at the point of sale for all transfers of all classes of firearms, including purchases from unlicensed sellers; Maryland andPennsylvania do the same for handgun ...

wow, 9 out of 50.

but in many others while the check is not required the owner is responsible for determining that the seller is legally allowed to buy firearms

 

[BULLDOG]

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

No you can't.

if you do you have broken the law

Only if I know they are a felon. How am I supposed to know that?

The laws in many if not most states as mine does state that it is ILLEGAL to sell to ANYONE prohibited by law from owning a firearm.
So it is up to YOU to find out. You find out by brokering your sale through a local FFL dealer.

So you support background checks then. Why didn't you say so from the first?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Felons don't have the right to buy guns.

No, not legally anyway. BUT they can certainly find some illegal guns faster than the average citizen.

I can legally sell a gun to a felon.

No you can't.

if you do you have broken the law

Only if I know they are a felon. How am I supposed to know that?

The laws in many if not most states as mine does state that it is ILLEGAL to sell to ANYONE prohibited by law from owning a firearm.
So it is up to YOU to find out. You find out by brokering your sale through a local FFL dealer.

It's generally 'knowingly' selling to a felon. If you don't need to do a background check, you have the defense that you didn't know he was a felon,
and contrary to the cliché of ignorance being no excuse, that will hold up in your defense.

 

[NYcarbineer]

NYcarbineer Nine states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington) and DC require universal background checks at the point of sale for all transfers of all classes of firearms, including purchases from unlicensed sellers; Maryland andPennsylvania do the same for handgun ...

wow, 9 out of 50.

but in many others while the check is not required the owner is responsible for determining that the seller is legally allowed to buy firearms

lol, how can the check be required and not required at the same time?