Holocaust History

[Ringo]

Well, great. You were married to a Jewish person and you come here and call a Jew you disagree with a NAZI ????????

You think a jew can't be a nazi? What an anti-semitic attitude! Jews, like any other people, can be whatever they want to be and no anti-semite can prevent them from being scum .

 

[Sixties Fan]

You think a jew can't be a nazi? What an anti-semitic attitude! Jews, like any other people, can be whatever they want to be and no anti-semite can prevent them from being scum .

You have not proven your case, only made assertions. Many of which I myself know not to be true.

Only about a dozen Jews were killed? Right.

We do not know who you are, only what you are saying without proof.

If any Jew can be a Nazi sympathizer that is their problem, it is not Mushroom's problem as this person is not one of them, for sure.

From all I have read, Jews fought the Nazis over there, and in the US. I am not aware of one Jews who has ever joined the Nazi gang against his people.

All I am seeing from your posts is an apologizer for Russia simply because the USSR took in Jews during WWII. But what happened to them, we know from history that the USSR or Russia were never good for the Jews, anymore than any other Christian European country.

 

[Ringo]

USSR or Russia were never good for the Jews, anymore than any other Christian European country.

Last year, there were reports of african students in Ukraine being thrown out of the buses when they were trying to get away from the war abroad. But in Ukraine, "there are no Nazis!" Russia-USSR evacuated 2 million jews to the home front, thus saving them ( while the US was sending ships with jews back to Hitler)....
The Soviet Union defeated nazi Germany at unimaginable cost, stopping the jewish death conveyor (while the U.S. rejoiced that their competitors in Europe were killing each other - Truman's true words). If the USSR had lost or at least come on slower it would have been the end of the jews in Europe(and not only) because the nazi extermination camps were very efficient.
In fact, the Soviet Union saved european jews from total annihilation, .... Eternal gratitude? Oh no!
There is an anti-semitic joke -
"A jew comes to his neighbor and says: - Excuse me, were you the one who pulled our boy out of the ice-hole yesterday?
- Yes, why?
- But where's his hat!?"

 

[Sixties Fan]

Last year, there were reports of african students in Ukraine being thrown out of the buses when they were trying to get away from the war abroad. But in Ukraine, "there are no Nazis!" Russia-USSR evacuated 2 million jews to the home front, thus saving them ( while the US was sending ships with jews back to Hitler)....
The Soviet Union defeated nazi Germany at unimaginable cost, stopping the jewish death conveyor (while the U.S. rejoiced that their competitors in Europe were killing each other - Truman's true words). If the USSR had lost or at least come on slower it would have been the end of the jews in Europe(and not only) because the nazi extermination camps were very efficient.
In fact, the Soviet Union saved european jews from total annihilation, .... Eternal gratitude? Oh no!
There is an anti-semitic joke -
"A jew comes to his neighbor and says: - Excuse me, were you the one who pulled our boy out of the ice-hole yesterday?
- Yes, why?
- But where's his hat!?"

No one is questioning that the USSR did not save Jews during WWII. It is the before and after of the Russian/USSR history that we do not agree about.

 

[Mushroom]

Only Nazi nits like you can claim that jews were "evacuated" to the Gulag, once again, you scum and bastard.

Tell that to Esther Hautzig and her family. They were indeed "evacuated" from Poland all the way to Siberia in a labor camp.

 

[Mushroom]

Well, great. You were married to a Jewish person and you come here and call a Jew you disagree with a NAZI ????????

You are done here Ringo. Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

That is all he ever does.

And to be honest, I do not even really try to engage with him. I know he is nothing but garbage propaganda and almost never sources anything or uses anything even close to "neutral" in the perspective. And I know because I have actually asked him for sources in the past, and he never responded.

However, I do provide sources and even ask to be fact checked and validated. Who I am actually trying to engage is those that may not know, so I can guide them to actual facts and not just propaganda. I have no "axe to grind", and simply want to provide people with actual history and facts, not propaganda.

 

[Mushroom]

No one is questioning that the USSR did not save Jews during WWII. It is the before and after of the Russian/USSR history that we do not agree about.

And once again, he provides no sources. Something I am not afraid to do.

Many African students who studied in Ukraine said they’re facing racial discrimination during their terrifying journeys fleeing Russia’s attacks, often struggling to find a way out of the country.

African Students Said They’re Facing Racism On Trains And Buses While Trying To Flee Ukraine

Foreign students trying to reach the Ukrainian border said they were thrown off trains, not allowed on buses, and made to wait hours in the cold before crossing over.

www.buzzfeednews.com

Now can anybody name for me a single instance where a mass evacuation in the face of a military invasion was done "calmly and peacefully"? Please, name me a single one where incidents like the above did not happen. During an invasion where over 600,000 people were being evacuated, of course there are going to be incidents like that. Primarily from people who are concerned with getting themselves and others they associate with out before they come under attack themselves.

Of course, if Russia had not decided to attack in the first place that never would have happened. Funny, how he places something that happens during a mass evacuation caused by the attack of his own country as a negative against the nation they invaded. But I welcome anybody to look at any similar situation throughout history. From the fall of Afghanistan or South Vietnam to the Marianas Boat Lift and the Boat People from South Vietnam. Or even evacuations in advance of ISIS or Syrian attacks.

That is nothing more than human nature. Get yourself and your own out, all others can be damned.

 

[Sixties Fan]

From the beginning of his rule in 1936 until the end of World War II, the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco’s sympathies unquestionably lay with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini, yet he assiduously maintained Spain’s neutrality during the war. A number of Jews, moreover, found refuge from the Nazis in Spanish territory, and as many as 35,000 crossed through Spain on their way to safety. As a result of these facts, he has developed a reputation as a vaguely benevolent figure in Jewish history. A new book by Paul Preston tells a very different story. Robert Philpot writes:

Despite the fact that Spain’s Jewish population numbered no more than 6,000 in 1936, the fiction that the country’s Catholic civilization was under assault from a conspiracy, directed by Jews and carried out by Communists and Freemasons, was the central justification for the Civil War that Franco prosecuted [in the 1930s].
As he slaughtered his way to victory, Franco repeatedly assailed the Jews. The crimes of the “red hordes,” he declared, were inspired by “the limitless cruelty of an accursed race.” Spain had been torn apart by “Judaizing freemasonry.” And, as he finally took Madrid in May 1939, he spoke of the need to “extinguish . . . the Jewish spirit that facilitated the alliance of big capital with Marxism.”
The new regime’s racial policy was clear from the outset: Jews (with the exception of those who had proved their “loyalty to the Movimiento Nacional”) and those who had a “marked Jewish character” were to be barred from entering Spain; the identity papers and residence permits of Jews were stamped with the word “Judío” in red ink; and, as late as 1957, police personal dossiers were referring to individuals as dangerous because of their “Israelite origins.”
Jews who arrived illegally [during the war years] and didn’t have onward visas were detained in squalid camps such as Miranda de Ebro. Others were turned back at the border. And Franco also allowed the Nazis to seize German Jews and return them to the Third Reich.

Read more at Jewish Chronicle

Setting the Record Straight on Francisco Franco and the Jews » Mosaic

Anti-Semitism was a crucial part of the Spanish dictator’s worldview.

mosaicmagazine.com

 

[Mindful]

This little girl.

Suzanne Hochherr was born in Amsterdam on September 1, 1939—the very same day Nazi Germany invaded Poland, beginning World War II. In May 1940, the Netherlands would also be occupied by the German army.
Suzanne's parents, Margot and Heinz, had moved to the Netherlands from Nazi Germany in hopes of safety. But in the summer of July 1942, German authorities and their Dutch collaborators began to round up and deport Jews from throughout the Netherlands.

Jews were often first taken to the Westerbork transit camp. Most were only there for a short time. From Westerbork, men, women, and children were deported to killing centers, ghettos, and camps—mainly Auschwitz-Birkenau and Sobibor. The first transport from Westerbork left for Auschwitz #OnThisDay in 1942.

Suzanne and her parents were part of this transport. Suzanne was almost certainly murdered in the gas chambers upon her arrival and alongside her mother. She was not even three years old. According to surviving records, her father was selected for forced labor but died in Auschwitz one month later.

Regular deportations from Westerbork would continue until September 1944. In just over two years, more than 100,000 Jews were deported from the Netherlands. The vast majority did not survive.

Photo: USHMM, courtesy of Robert Bahr. US Holocaust Museum.

 

[Mushroom]

In May 1940, the Netherlands would also be occupied by the German army.

And sadly, that was repeated through most of Europe. As the Germans took over nation after nation, it was rarely hard for them to find local puppets to "rule" a country. But nobody really believed that those domestic "National Socialist" governments were anything other than a mouthpiece for the Germans.

And we even saw the dragon eat its own tail when they turned on Italy, which was the first modern "National Socialist" nation in Europe, and had refused to follow their genocidal treatment of Jews and others. It was only after that that the Jews of Italy would start to be eliminated.

Such as Quisling.

 

[Mindful]

(Wednesday, July 16, 1941; during The Holocaust, part of World War II) — 12-year-old Anne Frank, a German-Dutch diarist of Jewish heritage who would gain fame posthumously with the 1947 publication of The Diary of a Young Girl, and her father, Otto, were photographed today on their way to the wedding of family friends Miep Santrouschitz, 32, and Jan Glies, 35, in Nazi-occupied Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

In 1933, Miep began working for Otto Frank, a Jewish businessman who had moved with his family from Germany to the Netherlands in the hope of sparing his family from Nazi persecution. She became a close, trusted friend of the Frank family and was a great support to them during the two years they would spend in hiding.

After refusing to join a Nazi women’s association, Miep’s passport was invalidated, and she was ordered to be deported back to Austria within 90 days (by then annexed by Germany, which classified her as a German citizen). The couple faced some difficulties, but they were married today so that she could obtain Dutch citizenship and thus evade deportation.

After today’s wedding, Otto invited the small group of wedding guests to a reception in his office at 263 Prinsengracht. Anne gave Miep her family’s wedding present, a silver tray, and served the assembled guests.

 

[Ringo]

Now can anybody name for me a single instance where a mass evacuation in the face of a military invasion was done "calmly and peacefully"?

The important thing about evacuation is not "calmy and peacefully" but effective. Therefore, a person who grew up in a capitalist economy cannot imagine the power and efficiency of a planned socialist economy during the war.
By its scale and efficiency this work has no analogues in the world history: for the first 4 months of the war (June 22 - October 15, 1941) 8 million people, 2.5 thousand industrial enterprises, 1.5 thousand collective farms were withdrawn from under the aggressor's attack.
This could be done only because there were pre-war plans for this and the enterprises were evacuated not to the open steppe, but to places prepared for this purpose, with foundations for the enterprise and railroad tracks. The Soviet planned economy was able to achieve all this in just 10 years before the war, creating an economy practically from scratch.
And it was thanks to the planned socialist economy that the USSR, despite the heavy losses of the initial period of the war, was able to surpass Germany and all of industrialized Europe in the production of military products, producing more tanks, planes, guns, etc.

 

[Mindful]

What fact disgusts human history?

German soldiers reacting to footage from concentration camps after the end of World War II, 1945.

The image held by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shows what was part of the denazification process proposed by the Allied powers, seeking to purge remnants of the Nazi regime and rebuild German civil society, as well as its economy and infrastructure.

 

[Mindful]

What is the most tragic moment ever caught on film?

I don't think you can ever really label anything as the most tragic moment as sadly there are just so many of them. However for me, this moment is certainly up there among the most tragic. It depicts a mother and her children on their way to the gas chambers at Auschwitz. The picture just emanates complete and utter despair and it always makes me very sad when I see it. My heart breaks on so many levels looking at this, for the mother, for the father and husband that lost them, and perhaps most of all for the poor children.

~ Adiemus. Graduated from university of life.

 

[Mushroom]

The important thing about evacuation is not "calmy and peacefully" but effective. Therefore, a person who grew up in a capitalist economy cannot imagine the power and efficiency of a planned socialist economy during the war.

Oh please, the Soviets only survived WWII because the US gave them huge amounts of fuel, food, and equipment.

Hell, even Stalin admitted as much after the war.

And no, the "planned socialist economy" has always failed, during our outside of a war. That is one of the main reasons why the Soviet Union collapsed in the first place.

Oh, and you yourself admitted that hundreds of thousands of Jews were left in Soviet territory the Germans overran. Sounds to me like that "evacuation" was not even effective.

God, it is so simple to turn the words of propagandists right back on themselves. Is like they can never remember what the last lies they spewed out are.

 

[Ringo]

Oh please, the Soviets only survived WWII because the US gave them huge amounts of fuel, food, and equipment.

Hell, even Stalin admitted as much after the war.

And no, the "planned socialist economy" has always failed, during our outside of a war.

You don't know what you're talking about, which is not surprising.
In the most difficult months of the war for the USSR, when the fate of the Nazi Blitzkrieg was being decided and the germans were standing on Moscow's doorstep, there was virtually no Allied help. Stalingrad (which was the turning point of World War II) was fought without significant Allied assistance. The flow of lend-lease began after the Battle of Kursk, when the Germans were start driven to the West and they were no longer capable of strategic offensive operations on the Eastern Front.

Comrade Stalin did acknowledge with gratitude the Allied aid, which helped bring the overall victory сloser. And the Allies at that time also noted the decisive role of the USSR in the victory over the common enemy.

Your last remark is completely idiotically false, so it does not require a response.
But, here some of the failings of the socialism:
In 1976, "Aeroflot" became the first airline in the world to carry more than 100 million passengers in a year. The USSR was the only country on the planet that produced 100% of all types of airplanes from its own components. 40% of the world's aircraft fleet, including helicopters, was built in the USSR

 

[irosie91]

You have not proven your case, only made assertions. Many of which I myself know not to be true.

Only about a dozen Jews were killed? Right.

We do not know who you are, only what you are saying without proof.

If any Jew can be a Nazi sympathizer that is their problem, it is not Mushroom's problem as this person is not one of them, for sure.

From all I have read, Jews fought the Nazis over there, and in the US. I am not aware of one Jews who has ever joined the Nazi gang against his people.

All I am seeing from your posts is an apologizer for Russia simply because the USSR took in Jews during WWII. But what happened to them, we know from history that the USSR or Russia were never good for the Jews, anymore than any other Christian European country.

I had a teacher----IN MY CHRISTIAN TOWN HIGH SCHOOL---who was a jew born in Poland---
whose family and he as a child escaped to RUSSIA-----He and his family ended up --first in
a desert kind of place as a POW camp-----and later in Siberia. Lots of his party of escapees
died-----starvation and disease. Of course, that is not the whole story

 

[Mushroom]

In the most difficult months of the war for the USSR, when the fate of the Nazi Blitzkrieg was being decided and the germans were standing on Moscow's doorstep, there was virtually no Allied help. Stalingrad (which was the turning point of World War II) was fought without significant Allied assistance.

Most famously, Soviet dictator Josef Stalin raised a toast to the Lend-Lease program at the November 1943 Tehran conference with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt.

"I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war," Stalin said. "The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war."

Nikita Khrushchev offered the same opinion.

"If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war," he wrote in his memoirs. "One-on-one against Hitler's Germany, we would not have withstood its onslaught and would have lost the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any written traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view several times in conversations with me."

'We Would Have Lost': Did U.S. Lend-Lease Aid Tip The Balance In Soviet Fight Against Nazi Germany?

Ever since the Cold War, many Soviet and Russian politicians and academics have downplayed the role that U.S.-provided weapons and supplies played in the Red Army's ultimately victorious campaign against Hitler's Germany. But there is substantial evidence that the huge influx of materiel made an...

www.rferl.org

So, are you saying that two leaders of the Soviet Union were lying?

 

[Mushroom]

In 1976, "Aeroflot" became the first airline in the world to carry more than 100 million passengers in a year. The USSR was the only country on the planet that produced 100% of all types of airplanes from its own components. 40% of the world's aircraft fleet, including helicopters, was built in the USSR

Well, it also helps in that it was the only airline in the USSR, and every single flight was theirs.

Oh, but in that same year the US flew over 240 million airline passengers domestically. However, that was split up between dozens of airlines. But if the US was like the USSR and only had one airline, that would have made your figure look like a Tijuana Taxi. Especially if we were to add in all the International flights, which Aeroflot was never a major player in.

Oh, and how many "Russian Made" aircraft does Aeroflot use now? Great, you gave us 1976, when it was essentially government owned and managed and they had no choice but to buy Soviet equipment. But what about today?

Well, as of this time, Aeroflot no longer has a monopoly, and is a publicly traded corporation. Know how many Russian aircraft they use?

Two.

Yep, just two, both are Sukhoi SSJ-100 twin engine regional jets (100 seats or less). All of the rest of their 167 aircraft are made by either Boeing, or Airbus.

So great, you try to prove some point by pointing back in time almost 5 decades. Meanwhile, notice what happened when the company was actually given the power to determine what aircraft they used. They dumped the Soviet made garbage and moved to Western made ones.

Oh, but they are now in the process of buying some made in Russia, the Irkut MC-21, because sanctions have ended the shipment of more planes or parts from Boeing and Airbus. However, the MC-21 is little more than a locally made copy of the 737 or A220. Which will still leave them with a deficit of seats as it will take 2 or 3 of those to replace the A330s and 777s they will be replacing.

In essence, they are turning back the clock, and copying what China has done. Made aircraft that nobody but their own companies will ever buy, because they are inferior to what is available on the world market. Like the Comac C919, a Chinese 737 clone that has only had purchase orders from Chinese airlines. Of the 583 orders for the C919, not a single one comes from any country other than China.

Once again, your bad propaganda is proven to be exactly that when compared to reality.

 

[Ringo]

But what about today?

Today is capitalism. And it's results.