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People who have Medicare love it. And they love the choices they have when they shop for Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans from a nice, wide range of insurers who are competing and innovating for their business.So after 4 years of undergrad, 1.5 years of grad school, and 20 years with the company, they can just dump my ass into Medicare?
Well that's just fucking great, so once again I get to pay for other people's coverage by having my own fucked up.
THAT WAS THE END RESULT OF FUCKING OBAMACARE!!!!
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because they are old and it's the only game in town. and I'm sure the looove Medicare when it tries to take a house away from a family to cover the costs of an older relative's long term care....
Now try that with people in their prime, people who get injuries from active sports and such, people with terminal diseases that are in the prime of their lives and may not be as willing as an older person to "let nature take its course", and see how it works out....
and you didn't actually answer my problem with it. I played the game by the rules, and now I am going to be squished into the masses, made up of some people who made terrible life choices, and will now be getting a pass for them. Same as Obamacare, same as the $15 minimum wage, same as welfare.
And people wonder why we got Trump.....who I hope isn't really considering this.
Medicare neither takes peoples houses or pays for long term care.
Oh rly?
Paying for nursing home care | Medicare.gov
No, it just waits until they are dead and takes it from their heirs.
Read your link. Medicaid is not Medicare. And Medicaid never "takes a house". They occasionally put a lien on property to recover funds paid, although even that practice is banned in some states.
People who have Medicare love it. And they love the choices they have when they shop for Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans from a nice, wide range of insurers who are competing and innovating for their business.
.
because they are old and it's the only game in town. and I'm sure the looove Medicare when it tries to take a house away from a family to cover the costs of an older relative's long term care....
Now try that with people in their prime, people who get injuries from active sports and such, people with terminal diseases that are in the prime of their lives and may not be as willing as an older person to "let nature take its course", and see how it works out....
and you didn't actually answer my problem with it. I played the game by the rules, and now I am going to be squished into the masses, made up of some people who made terrible life choices, and will now be getting a pass for them. Same as Obamacare, same as the $15 minimum wage, same as welfare.
And people wonder why we got Trump.....who I hope isn't really considering this.
Medicare neither takes peoples houses or pays for long term care.
Oh rly?
Paying for nursing home care | Medicare.gov
No, it just waits until they are dead and takes it from their heirs.
Read your link. Medicaid is not Medicare. And Medicaid never "takes a house". They occasionally put a lien on property to recover funds paid, although even that practice is banned in some states.
different sides of the same government coin. What this plan does is basically combines medicaid and medicare, so say goodbye to your assets you leave to your heirs, because the government just figured out how to fund this crap....
Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance, first off Medicare is underwater on an annualized operating basis thus it continuously drives up federal cumulative operating deficits (which entails debt services cost that are continually compounded upon themselves), secondly because of artificial prices controls it shifts the burden of product and service delivery onto the backs of those paying for private insurance (TANSTAFL); Private market premiums are higher because we have to make up for the shortfall in payouts for health care provider product and service delivery, we also have to pay for the fact that federal programs shift the ADMINISTRATIVE burden onto health care providers to the point where it requires up to 4 administrative staff just to support 1 doctor that accepts government run insurance (which explains why we're seeing an exodus of providers from government run insurance). Lastly the fact that we have a system that is buffet style means that there is no disincentive for over-consumption, thus supply is squeezed by what is essentially limitless demand and prices of products and services are artificially inflated further.Yeah, it's $27 Trillion in unfunded liabilities in the hole and growing every day, so they'll love it right up to the point that the public debt burden becomes so great that it collapses the currency, after that not so much. Those that want to expand it from the current 55 million enrolled to 330 million enrolled are obviously living in an alternate plane of existence where money grows on trees.People who have Medicare love it. And they love the choices they have when they shop for Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans from a nice, wide range of insurers who are competing and innovating for their business.
.
Funny thing, Medicare and Medicaid take care of the poor, the elderly, and the disabled at about the same per person cost as private health insurance takes care of the healthy and working.
.
So what would be the incentive for companies to continue having medical insurance as part of their benefits package?
What you are actually talking about id "medicaid for all" not medicare for all.
Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance, first off Medicare is underwater on an annualized operating basis thus it continuously drives up federal cumulative operating deficits (which entails debt services cost that are continually compounded upon themselves), secondly because of artificial prices controls it shifts the burden of product and service delivery onto the backs of those paying for private insurance (TANSTAFL); Private market premiums are higher because we have to make up for the shortfall in payouts for health care provider product and service delivery, we also have to pay for the fact that federal programs shift the ADMINISTRATIVE burden onto health care providers to the point where it requires up to 4 administrative staff just to support 1 doctor that accepts government run insurance (which explains why we're seeing an exodus of providers from government run insurance). Lastly the fact that we have a system that is buffet style means that there is no disincentive for over-consumption, thus supply is squeezed by what is essentially limitless demand and prices of products and services are artificially inflated further.Yeah, it's $27 Trillion in unfunded liabilities in the hole and growing every day, so they'll love it right up to the point that the public debt burden becomes so great that it collapses the currency, after that not so much. Those that want to expand it from the current 55 million enrolled to 330 million enrolled are obviously living in an alternate plane of existence where money grows on trees.People who have Medicare love it. And they love the choices they have when they shop for Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans from a nice, wide range of insurers who are competing and innovating for their business.
.
Funny thing, Medicare and Medicaid take care of the poor, the elderly, and the disabled at about the same per person cost as private health insurance takes care of the healthy and working.
.
Medicare also offers very limited patient coverage choice, on Medicare I cannot al carte choose the exact coverage I want and need, I have to take what's offered which is grossly inefficient and wasteful. Personally I do not want government involved in my health care AT ALL since I'm perfectly capable of determining my own insurance needs, evaluating the competency of providers and deciding how to spend my own money and I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the citizenry is capable of doing the same thing.
Once you get government completely out the health care business and allow for healthy market competition you'll have the necessary ingredients for costs to fall and for quality and supply to rise, at which point fixed subsidies for the poor and the elderly to purchase insurance in the private market will be affordable and provide superior quality and choice.
"In the economic sphere an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are fortunate if we foresee them." -- Fredric Bastiat
Then how come you seem to completely ignore all the unseen macro economic effects that Medicare inflicts on the general economy? The total costs don't just include the numbers printed on the bill, as I explained they also include all the costs that are shifted as a result of the program AND the resulting declines in quality, availability and choice.Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance, first off Medicare is underwater on an annualized operating basis thus it continuously drives up federal cumulative operating deficits (which entails debt services cost that are continually compounded upon themselves), secondly because of artificial prices controls it shifts the burden of product and service delivery onto the backs of those paying for private insurance (TANSTAFL); Private market premiums are higher because we have to make up for the shortfall in payouts for health care provider product and service delivery, we also have to pay for the fact that federal programs shift the ADMINISTRATIVE burden onto health care providers to the point where it requires up to 4 administrative staff just to support 1 doctor that accepts government run insurance (which explains why we're seeing an exodus of providers from government run insurance). Lastly the fact that we have a system that is buffet style means that there is no disincentive for over-consumption, thus supply is squeezed by what is essentially limitless demand and prices of products and services are artificially inflated further.Yeah, it's $27 Trillion in unfunded liabilities in the hole and growing every day, so they'll love it right up to the point that the public debt burden becomes so great that it collapses the currency, after that not so much. Those that want to expand it from the current 55 million enrolled to 330 million enrolled are obviously living in an alternate plane of existence where money grows on trees.People who have Medicare love it. And they love the choices they have when they shop for Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans from a nice, wide range of insurers who are competing and innovating for their business.
.
Funny thing, Medicare and Medicaid take care of the poor, the elderly, and the disabled at about the same per person cost as private health insurance takes care of the healthy and working.
.
Medicare also offers very limited patient coverage choice, on Medicare I cannot al carte choose the exact coverage I want and need, I have to take what's offered which is grossly inefficient and wasteful. Personally I do not want government involved in my health care AT ALL since I'm perfectly capable of determining my own insurance needs, evaluating the competency of providers and deciding how to spend my own money and I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the citizenry is capable of doing the same thing.
Once you get government completely out the health care business and allow for healthy market competition you'll have the necessary ingredients for costs to fall and for quality and supply to rise, at which point fixed subsidies for the poor and the elderly to purchase insurance in the private market will be affordable and provide superior quality and choice.
"In the economic sphere an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are fortunate if we foresee them." -- Fredric Bastiat
You are barking up the wrong tree hoss. More research? I have worked in the Medicare marketplace for twenty years. I have hundreds of clients. I have help enroll dozens of people on Medicaid. I have conducted countless "spenddowns".
.
This conversation is moot, Republicans will NEVER get on board with this.
Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance
No shit sherlock, I already said that, unfortunately the fact that because TANSTAFL private market consumers have to make up for those costs through higher premiums.Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance
This is completely false.
Medicare and Medicaid reimburse providers far less than private insurance and have way lower overhead due to economics of scales (and of course absence of multi-million dollar executives).
This conversation is moot, Republicans will NEVER get on board with this.
Never say never, after all the Republicans are just as duplicitous and imbecilic as the Democrats are.
Then how come you seem to completely ignore all the unseen macro economic effects that Medicare inflicts on the general economy? The total costs don't just include the numbers printed on the bill, as I explained they also include all the costs that are shifted as a result of the program AND the resulting declines in quality, availability and choice.Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance, first off Medicare is underwater on an annualized operating basis thus it continuously drives up federal cumulative operating deficits (which entails debt services cost that are continually compounded upon themselves), secondly because of artificial prices controls it shifts the burden of product and service delivery onto the backs of those paying for private insurance (TANSTAFL); Private market premiums are higher because we have to make up for the shortfall in payouts for health care provider product and service delivery, we also have to pay for the fact that federal programs shift the ADMINISTRATIVE burden onto health care providers to the point where it requires up to 4 administrative staff just to support 1 doctor that accepts government run insurance (which explains why we're seeing an exodus of providers from government run insurance). Lastly the fact that we have a system that is buffet style means that there is no disincentive for over-consumption, thus supply is squeezed by what is essentially limitless demand and prices of products and services are artificially inflated further.Yeah, it's $27 Trillion in unfunded liabilities in the hole and growing every day, so they'll love it right up to the point that the public debt burden becomes so great that it collapses the currency, after that not so much. Those that want to expand it from the current 55 million enrolled to 330 million enrolled are obviously living in an alternate plane of existence where money grows on trees.People who have Medicare love it. And they love the choices they have when they shop for Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans from a nice, wide range of insurers who are competing and innovating for their business.
.
Funny thing, Medicare and Medicaid take care of the poor, the elderly, and the disabled at about the same per person cost as private health insurance takes care of the healthy and working.
.
Medicare also offers very limited patient coverage choice, on Medicare I cannot al carte choose the exact coverage I want and need, I have to take what's offered which is grossly inefficient and wasteful. Personally I do not want government involved in my health care AT ALL since I'm perfectly capable of determining my own insurance needs, evaluating the competency of providers and deciding how to spend my own money and I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the citizenry is capable of doing the same thing.
Once you get government completely out the health care business and allow for healthy market competition you'll have the necessary ingredients for costs to fall and for quality and supply to rise, at which point fixed subsidies for the poor and the elderly to purchase insurance in the private market will be affordable and provide superior quality and choice.
"In the economic sphere an act, a habit, an institution, a law produces not only one effect, but a series of effects. Of these effects, the first alone is immediate; it appears simultaneously with its cause; it is seen. The other effects emerge only subsequently; they are not seen; we are fortunate if we foresee them." -- Fredric Bastiat
You are barking up the wrong tree hoss. More research? I have worked in the Medicare marketplace for twenty years. I have hundreds of clients. I have help enroll dozens of people on Medicaid. I have conducted countless "spenddowns".
.
It's completely illogical and runs counter to human experience to expect that eliminating competition and removing the profit motive will result in anything but higher costs, lower quality and reduced supply; putting all the eggs in the government basket does just that. It also explains why the current implementation of our welfare state along with debt service costs will devour the entire federal budget within 30 years if left unchecked, that is if we don't experience a complete collapse of the dollar first because of it.
No shit sherlock, I already said that, unfortunately the fact that because TANSTAFL private market consumers have to make up for those costs through higher premiums.Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance
This is completely false.
Medicare and Medicaid reimburse providers far less than private insurance and have way lower overhead due to economics of scales (and of course absence of multi-million dollar executives).
What, did you think providers were just eating the costs?
No shit sherlock, I already said that, unfortunately the fact that because TANSTAFL private market consumers have to make up for those costs through higher premiums.Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance
This is completely false.
Medicare and Medicaid reimburse providers far less than private insurance and have way lower overhead due to economics of scales (and of course absence of multi-million dollar executives).
What, did you think providers were just eating the costs?
If "no shit" then why the fuck would you say it is more expensive? It is not.
So what would be the incentive for companies to continue having medical insurance as part of their benefits package?
What you are actually talking about id "medicaid for all" not medicare for all.
Exactly. One of the best benefits to the country of Universal Healthcare (Medicare for all) is that it frees up employers to hire more people from the money they're saving not having to cover employees for healthcare!
Der! They get *this close* to the perfect solution and then miss it by *that much*..
UH should be paid for by proportionate cash register taxes on tobacco, booze & sugared goods. The three main killers. In that way, also beautifully, the sick really are paying for their own healthcare in the end.
because they are old and it's the only game in town. and I'm sure the looove Medicare when it tries to take a house away from a family to cover the costs of an older relative's long term care....
Now try that with people in their prime, people who get injuries from active sports and such, people with terminal diseases that are in the prime of their lives and may not be as willing as an older person to "let nature take its course", and see how it works out....
and you didn't actually answer my problem with it. I played the game by the rules, and now I am going to be squished into the masses, made up of some people who made terrible life choices, and will now be getting a pass for them. Same as Obamacare, same as the $15 minimum wage, same as welfare.
And people wonder why we got Trump.....who I hope isn't really considering this.
Medicare neither takes peoples houses or pays for long term care.
Oh rly?
Paying for nursing home care | Medicare.gov
No, it just waits until they are dead and takes it from their heirs.
Read your link. Medicaid is not Medicare. And Medicaid never "takes a house". They occasionally put a lien on property to recover funds paid, although even that practice is banned in some states.
different sides of the same government coin. What this plan does is basically combines medicaid and medicare, so say goodbye to your assets you leave to your heirs, because the government just figured out how to fund this crap....
Medicare for all is not Medicaid for all. And Medicaid recovery is a very rare practice, only a handful of states even participate. It applies only to those over 55 and is only used to recovery the expense of long term care. It cannot be used if there is a surviving spouse, surviving child under 21, or the usual case--any child of any age that is disabled.
No shit sherlock, I already said that, unfortunately the fact that because TANSTAFL private market consumers have to make up for those costs through higher premiums.Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance
This is completely false.
Medicare and Medicaid reimburse providers far less than private insurance and have way lower overhead due to economics of scales (and of course absence of multi-million dollar executives).
What, did you think providers were just eating the costs?
If "no shit" then why the fuck would you say it is more expensive? It is not.
It is more expensive if you count the actual costs instead of just looking at the numbers the government publishes, in economics there are seen and unseen effects and both contribute to the final toll, I've already pointed out many of those unseen factors in this thread and you've completely ignored them since they are inconvenient to your strongly held opinions, nevertheless they remain real.
No shit sherlock, I already said that, unfortunately the fact that because TANSTAFL private market consumers have to make up for those costs through higher premiums.Methinks you need to do a bit more research, Medicare and Medicaid are ridiculously more expensive than private insurance
This is completely false.
Medicare and Medicaid reimburse providers far less than private insurance and have way lower overhead due to economics of scales (and of course absence of multi-million dollar executives).
What, did you think providers were just eating the costs?
If "no shit" then why the fuck would you say it is more expensive? It is not.
It is more expensive if you count the actual costs instead of just looking at the numbers the government publishes, in economics there are seen and unseen effects and both contribute to the final toll, I've already pointed out many of those unseen factors in this thread and you've completely ignored them since they are inconvenient to your strongly held opinions, nevertheless they remain real.
The TOLL is REDUCED HEALTHCARE SPENDING.
Medicare/Medicaid have long been driving healthcare costs down.
