Home schooling: the best and worst examples I've seen personally.

[hadit]

I won't defend bad public school teachers, there are some. At least you know they have adequate knowledge to teach their subjects, and they will spend the time needed to teach. That's a hell of a lot more than you can expect from home school parents.

And again, if homeschooling parents don't have the expertise to teach a subject, there are options that give their kids access to those who do. One option, as I've pointed out repeatedly, is an online curriculum that gives the student access to teachers and the parents become monitors making sure their kids can stay focused. Another is to homeschool until the kids get old enough that they're taxing the parents' ability to effectively teach (all the while keeping up with the SOL's), then put them back in private or government schools to finish out their years.

 

[hadit]

Most home schoolers are as adament about lack of evaluation as the NRA is about no common sense regulation.

"Most"? I would challenge that. Do you have a source or is it just a feeling you have?

 

[hadit]

Everything you just posted is a lie. No doubt that some home schoolers who go to the trouble of studying for standardized tests, and who have parents that actually know the information being taught, and are focused enough to actually do classwork every day will have excellent results.

IOW, just as I've been saying. Homeschooling, especially given the tools available to the modern homeschooler, is an excellent way for parents to give their kids the best possible educational opportunities. And no, parents don't have to know all the information being taught, also as I've explained multiple times. As for focus, given that the average homeschooled kid can get an entire day's worth of schoolwork done in just a few hours (less time wasted on classroom order), focus is less of a problem than you'd think. There is a lot of time wasted in the classroom just getting kids to sit down and shut up, while a homeschooled kid can work for a half hour until boredom sets in, go out and run around the house two or three times, then come back and do more with renewed focus. They can't do that kind of thing in a classroom.

Most home school children, like most public schooled children don't go to college. Home schooled children who don't need standardized tests to go to college don't even bother to take them. The numbers you listed only take in account the top of the top. All the others are just ignored.

Again, I will need sources for those claims. You seem to have a real problem with homeschooling, can you articulate why?

 

[hadit]

Any data to show how many home schooled kids just get religious education?

96 Homeschooling Statistics for 2024 (Data Insights)

Learn about Homeschooling statistics of 2024. Get insights on the number of students homeschooling, factors that affect, and more!

www.prosperityforamerica.org

"Homeschooled students perform better academically than their public counterparts. A National Home Education Research Institute study found that homeschooled students scored an average of 15 to 30 percentile points higher on standardized tests than public school students."

"Homeschooled students are also more likely to graduate from college. A study by the Home School Legal Defense Association found that 66.7% of homeschooled students graduate from college, compared to 57.8% of public school students."


Chances are home schooled kids are generally smarter because their parents are smarter.

A) You need to be rich to make this work
B) You probably have to feel you're educated enough to make this work.

70% of home schooled kids are white. 6% are black
58% of people are white. 12% are black.

So, the number of home schooled black kids is half their demographic. White people have a higher rate.

Poverty stats vary, but here's one:

Poverty rate by race and ethnicity U.S. 2022 | Statista

In 2022, 17.1 percent of Black people living in the United States were living below the poverty line, compared to 8.6 percent of white people.

www.statista.com

8.6% of white people are in poverty, 17.1% of black people are in poverty. So, black people are more likely to be in poverty, less likely to have the resources to do home schooling.

States with the most home schooling. North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Virginia (those over 4% of kids)

States spending the most and least per student on education

To look at school funding, Stacker evaluated the U.S.

stacker.com

Florida is 46th for education spending, North Carolina is 45th, Georgia is 34th, Virginia is 25th. Obviously this doesn't take into account how much it costs to live in a place, a city like NY will spend more simply because teachers will need to be paid more than rural West Virginia.
But before you attack me for saying there's nothing about religion here:

Home-schooling has become less religious, and other takeaways from new research

In the past, religion was often the key factor leading families to choose home-schooling. Today, parents are more likely to cite safety concerns to explain their decision

www.deseret.com

"In the past, religion was often the key factor leading families to choose home-schooling. Today, parents are more likely to cite safety concerns to explain their decision"

"The Washington Post-Schar School poll found that concern about school shootings and concern about bullying are the fourth- and fifth-most common reasons why families choose home-schooling today."

"The ability to provide in-home religious instruction ranked eighth on the survey’s list of common reasons to home-school. Around one-third of parents currently home-schooling said they chose it for this faith-based reason. As recently as 2012, nearly two-thirds of home-schooling parents said the same, according to The Washington Post."

So, at least 33% of parents have their kids at home for religious reasons. It might be more than that, I'd assume some might be unwilling to divulge such information.

The point being that having the CHOICE to homeschool is paramount.

 

[hadit]

Rightists Are Not Any Better for America Than Leftists

The public schools are really ruling-class schools, not "government schools." Retarded HeirHeads such as Dumbo Dubya couldn't be made smart by the prep schools and the advanced prep schools of the Ivy League. So the heiristocratic filth decided to dumb-down the public schools instead. The only way they could make their spoiled brats appear to be smart was to dumb-down the plebeians.

Schools have been getting "dumbed down" for a long time, your hysteria over W notwithstanding. And yes, they are government schools because government runs them.

 

[hadit]

Bullshit.

I lived in Washington state for seven years when I worked at the Hanford site.

In the Tri Cities they had a few good schools where the DOE had put tons of money into to entice scientists and engineers to come to that desert but they also has some shitty schools like in Pasco.

Outside of the Tri Cities most of the schools on the desert side of the state were shitty.

My younger son went to what was probably the best High School in the Tri Cities and there was a two tier system of education. One where you get through learning academics and one where you could graduate not know anything, depending on which classes you take.

That two tier system is common throughout the US. One academic so that the smart kids can learn and one that is noting more than a diploma mill.

And that's a prime example of where good trade schools would be an awesome option. Instead of forcing kids to go through the motions so they can be handed a worthless piece of paper and a bureaucrat can check off a box, give these kids a fighting chance to get into a well-paid, skilled career where they can make a good living with dignity. We've so stigmatized the trades in this country that we're pushing kids into situations they're not ready for, don't want to be in, and shouldn't have to deal with.

 

[MarathonMike]

Any data to show how many home schooled kids just get religious education?

96 Homeschooling Statistics for 2024 (Data Insights)

Learn about Homeschooling statistics of 2024. Get insights on the number of students homeschooling, factors that affect, and more!

www.prosperityforamerica.org

"Homeschooled students perform better academically than their public counterparts. A National Home Education Research Institute study found that homeschooled students scored an average of 15 to 30 percentile points higher on standardized tests than public school students."

"Homeschooled students are also more likely to graduate from college. A study by the Home School Legal Defense Association found that 66.7% of homeschooled students graduate from college, compared to 57.8% of public school students."


Chances are home schooled kids are generally smarter because their parents are smarter.

A) You need to be rich to make this work
B) You probably have to feel you're educated enough to make this work.

70% of home schooled kids are white. 6% are black
58% of people are white. 12% are black.

So, the number of home schooled black kids is half their demographic. White people have a higher rate.

Poverty stats vary, but here's one:

Poverty rate by race and ethnicity U.S. 2022 | Statista

In 2022, 17.1 percent of Black people living in the United States were living below the poverty line, compared to 8.6 percent of white people.

www.statista.com

8.6% of white people are in poverty, 17.1% of black people are in poverty. So, black people are more likely to be in poverty, less likely to have the resources to do home schooling.

States with the most home schooling. North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Virginia (those over 4% of kids)

States spending the most and least per student on education

To look at school funding, Stacker evaluated the U.S.

stacker.com

Florida is 46th for education spending, North Carolina is 45th, Georgia is 34th, Virginia is 25th. Obviously this doesn't take into account how much it costs to live in a place, a city like NY will spend more simply because teachers will need to be paid more than rural West Virginia.
But before you attack me for saying there's nothing about religion here:

Home-schooling has become less religious, and other takeaways from new research

In the past, religion was often the key factor leading families to choose home-schooling. Today, parents are more likely to cite safety concerns to explain their decision

www.deseret.com

"In the past, religion was often the key factor leading families to choose home-schooling. Today, parents are more likely to cite safety concerns to explain their decision"

"The Washington Post-Schar School poll found that concern about school shootings and concern about bullying are the fourth- and fifth-most common reasons why families choose home-schooling today."

"The ability to provide in-home religious instruction ranked eighth on the survey’s list of common reasons to home-school. Around one-third of parents currently home-schooling said they chose it for this faith-based reason. As recently as 2012, nearly two-thirds of home-schooling parents said the same, according to The Washington Post."

So, at least 33% of parents have their kids at home for religious reasons. It might be more than that, I'd assume some might be unwilling to divulge such information.

You do not have to be "rich" to make home schooling work. In my best and worst examples, the "best" family was a minister's family and a stay at home Mom. The "worst" family were multi-millionaires due a trust fund. It is more about being committed to the process which is why religious families generally have good results.

 

[MarathonMike]

And that's a prime example of where good trade schools would be an awesome option. Instead of forcing kids to go through the motions so they can be handed a worthless piece of paper and a bureaucrat can check off a box, give these kids a fighting chance to get into a well-paid, skilled career where they can make a good living with dignity. We've so stigmatized the trades in this country that we're pushing kids into situations they're not ready for, don't want to be in, and shouldn't have to deal with.

I agree that trade schools are an excellent option for many post high school age kids, but public school vs home school is mostly about developing fundamental skills in younger kids.

 

[MarathonMike]

If it can be learned in schools it can be learned at home.

I don't see any way to teach kids how to socialize/interact/team with a wide variety of other kids in the home. In my "best" home school example the parents had their kids doing sports in public school once they got to be middle school age. And of course they had lots of socialization opportunities through Church.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Ok I see that. What about socialization skills and learning how to function in partner/team situations?

Easily accomplished by signing up for sports, summer camp, church or other youth groups, activities that interest the individual children, and - this one may surprise you - getting to know one's neighbors.

Parents who put in the effort to home school their kids are the parents who will put in the effort to do those things.

 

[Unkotare]

...

I say we should stop stigmatizing trade school educations as being inferior to a liberal arts education ....

Who is doing that?

 

[Unkotare]

...give kids a real choice for their high school years, go the traditional academic, college prep route or take the trade school route, .....

They have that choice now.

 

[braalian]

They have that choice now.

Yes but we should encourage more into trades and fewer into liberal arts

 

[MarathonMike]

Easily accomplished by signing up for sports, summer camp, church or other youth groups, activities that interest the individual children, and - this one may surprise you - getting to know one's neighbors.

Parents who put in the effort to home school their kids are the parents who will put in the effort to do those things.

I agree, my question was to a poster who said you can learn socialization at home.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes but we should encourage more into trades and fewer into liberal arts

That’s up to kids and their parents.

 

[MarathonMike]

And again, if homeschooling parents don't have the expertise to teach a subject, there are options that give their kids access to those who do. One option, as I've pointed out repeatedly, is an online curriculum that gives the student access to teachers and the parents become monitors making sure their kids can stay focused. Another is to homeschool until the kids get old enough that they're taxing the parents' ability to effectively teach (all the while keeping up with the SOL's), then put them back in private or government schools to finish out their years.

I agree, but Bulldog brought up an important point about lack of assessment for the progress of home schooled kids. For those parents who fail at home schooling, the results for those kids can be disastrous and last a lifetime. I've seen it.

 

[hadit]

Who is doing that?

Obviously, I don't listen to everyone, but I see posters on here, for example, claiming that those who say higher education is not necessarily a good thing for every student, instead advocating for trades education are anti-education. And, even as far back as 45 years ago when I was in school, "shop class" had the reputation of being where we sent failures who couldn't hack the intellectual path.

 

[hadit]

They have that choice now.

And they should. Are the trades presented to the kids as a valid choice, not just where you get sent if you can't cut it in academia?

 

[hadit]

I agree, but Bulldog brought up an important point about lack of assessment for the progress of home schooled kids. For those parents who fail at home schooling, the results for those kids can be disastrous and last a lifetime. I've seen it.

That is true, but lack of parental involvement is a huge problem to EVERY student, no matter what schooling type they're in. Quite frankly, I would question parents who want to homeschool their kids but don't want to see how they compare with the standard.

 

[Winco]

I say we should stop stigmatizing trade school educations as being inferior to a liberal arts education and give kids a real choice for their high school years, go the traditional academic, college prep route or take the trade school route, and not present the choices as superior or inferior.

We don't stigmatize trade schools as being inferior.
As an educator, my own daughter wanted to go to take school and we supported her 100%.
She is 31 , Married with 2 Children, and OWNS 2 businesses.

Counselors at HS help guide students through their "High School and Beyond Plan"

If you were actually in a HS, on a daily basis, you would know this.
You STILL believe that educators and counselors spend their entire day convincing students to 'alter' their bodies.

And that's a prime example of where good trade schools would be an awesome option.