Homeschooling: the ultimate results

[hadit]

Of course. Some home school parents are concerned and capable of giving their children a great education. The one on one teaching is much better than a large class. However, it's wrong to say all parents are educated enough to give their children a quality education, and pointing to the ones lucky enough to have parents do as the expected outcome of home schooling is just wrong. With required standards home schooling could be a great idea. Without them lots of children are missing the chance at a better, more productive life.

You don't have to have a great education yourself to give your child one. There are resources that make that possible.

Of course there are. That's where the ones with the high SATs come from. Many don't take advantage of those resources, and nothing in federal law says they have to. If there were requirements for parents to use those resources, or to determine if the child is being taught anything, then home schooling might be a viable option.

Agree
Make home schoolers meet the same standards a public school must meet. If you don't, your kid gets placed in public school

Let the kids take the SOL's. As long as they do well, leave them the heck alone.

That would be great, except there are generally no requirements to do anything to prove the kids actually learned anything.

What do we do with the kids in government schools who don't learn anything?

 

[hadit]

I think that homeschooling is great, as long as you don't want your kids to be more educated than you.

That's dumb. Have you never heard of an online school? The student works at home and remote teachers grade the work and give help when needed.

This isn't the 1950's any more.

Online schools are great for some kids, but most do not learn as well.

Ever tried taking an on-line PE class?

How about chorus?

Band?

Welding?

They do that in co-ops. Face it, modern home schoolers have good resources at their fingertips.

Yeah, right!

You should say "some", but that would defeat your argument, wouldn't it?

It's up to the parents and students to access them, just like parents and students in government schools have resources they can choose to access.

 

[hadit]

So...they will be SO prepared for those things as an adult in the work force.

I know....those homeschool kids will be forced to work with negroes

Oh get a grip.

Are you saying the racial makeup of the local school doesn’t play into the decision to homeschool?

I'm saying people decide to home school for many reasons. Insisting they're racist is just plain hateful and stupid.

Unfortunately, in many cases it is true. It is not plain hateful and stupid.

You can find racists everywhere, but to make a blanket statement that all home schooling parents are doing it because they are IS hateful and stupid.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

90% of parents can't home school anyways....They have to fucking work their asses off just to afford the roof and food! This shit can never work as this is reality! Maybe a few percent of parents have the education and the free time to do so but that isn't a good reason to destroy public education.

1. If we had a school voucher system, that could be used for home schooling, that would be easier for more people.

2. Different schedules can be set up so that one parent is always there. That's what my wife and I did to avoid paying for child care.

3. Economic and trade and immigration policies to serve the interests of the working poor and middle class could help with that., the policies that you lefties and establishment republicans are fighting against so hard.


4. Older kids, depending on maturity, could be self motivating with the proper resources.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

If you can homeschool, great! Do it! Just don't claim that everyone can do it and every kid that does is guaranteed a spot in Harvard's freshman class.

 

[rightwinger]

Homeschooling makes a lot of sense

A high school graduate is eminently more capable of educating children in math, science, literature, computers, foreign language than someone with a masters degree and extensive knowledge in a given subject

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I think that homeschooling is great, as long as you don't want your kids to be more educated than you.

That's dumb. Have you never heard of an online school? The student works at home and remote teachers grade the work and give help when needed.

This isn't the 1950's any more.

Online schools are great for some kids, but most do not learn as well.

Ever tried taking an on-line PE class?

How about chorus?

Band?

Welding?

They do that in co-ops. Face it, modern home schoolers have good resources at their fingertips.

Yeah, right!

You should say "some", but that would defeat your argument, wouldn't it?

It's up to the parents and students to access them, just like parents and students in government schools have resources they can choose to access.

Note that I never said they could not. Please explain the resources available in a small farming community more then 50 miles away from the nearest large city. You simply cannot make blanket statements as homeschools supporters have a strong tendency to do.

 

[Correll]

90% of parents can't home school anyways....They have to fucking work their asses off just to afford the roof and food! This shit can never work as this is reality! Maybe a few percent of parents have the education and the free time to do so but that isn't a good reason to destroy public education.

1. If we had a school voucher system, that could be used for home schooling, that would be easier for more people.

2. Different schedules can be set up so that one parent is always there. That's what my wife and I did to avoid paying for child care.

3. Economic and trade and immigration policies to serve the interests of the working poor and middle class could help with that., the policies that you lefties and establishment republicans are fighting against so hard.


4. Older kids, depending on maturity, could be self motivating with the proper resources.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

If you can homeschool, great! Do it! Just don't claim that everyone can do it and every kid that does is guaranteed a spot in Harvard's freshman class.

Well, that was a nice helping of crazy.


YOu got anything to say that addresses anything I actually said?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I know....those homeschool kids will be forced to work with negroes

Oh get a grip.

Are you saying the racial makeup of the local school doesn’t play into the decision to homeschool?

I'm saying people decide to home school for many reasons. Insisting they're racist is just plain hateful and stupid.

Unfortunately, in many cases it is true. It is not plain hateful and stupid.

You can find racists everywhere, but to make a blanket statement that all home schooling parents are doing it because they are IS hateful and stupid.

I think you need to look up the term "blanket statement" because you obviously do not understand it.

 

[Correll]

Homeschooling makes a lot of sense

A high school graduate is eminently more capable of educating children in math, science, literature, computers, foreign language than someone with a masters degree and extensive knowledge in a given subject

Education outcome is primarily driven by parental involvement.

Your sides celebration of single motherhood shows that you don't give a damn about education.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

90% of parents can't home school anyways....They have to fucking work their asses off just to afford the roof and food! This shit can never work as this is reality! Maybe a few percent of parents have the education and the free time to do so but that isn't a good reason to destroy public education.

1. If we had a school voucher system, that could be used for home schooling, that would be easier for more people.

2. Different schedules can be set up so that one parent is always there. That's what my wife and I did to avoid paying for child care.

3. Economic and trade and immigration policies to serve the interests of the working poor and middle class could help with that., the policies that you lefties and establishment republicans are fighting against so hard.


4. Older kids, depending on maturity, could be self motivating with the proper resources.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

If you can homeschool, great! Do it! Just don't claim that everyone can do it and every kid that does is guaranteed a spot in Harvard's freshman class.

Well, that was a nice helping of crazy.


YOu got anything to say that addresses anything I actually said?

I did. All of that is possible with SOME students. To say that everyone can meet those requirements is disingenuous.

Vouchers should never be given to homeschoolers. as it takes away funds for other students.

Some people do not choose their work schedules. My wife and I were lucky and we did for child care reasons.

I am about as lefty as Attila the Hun, so I don't know where you get that BS.

Older kids may do well, but then again some might not.

 

[Correll]

90% of parents can't home school anyways....They have to fucking work their asses off just to afford the roof and food! This shit can never work as this is reality! Maybe a few percent of parents have the education and the free time to do so but that isn't a good reason to destroy public education.

1. If we had a school voucher system, that could be used for home schooling, that would be easier for more people.

2. Different schedules can be set up so that one parent is always there. That's what my wife and I did to avoid paying for child care.

3. Economic and trade and immigration policies to serve the interests of the working poor and middle class could help with that., the policies that you lefties and establishment republicans are fighting against so hard.


4. Older kids, depending on maturity, could be self motivating with the proper resources.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

If you can homeschool, great! Do it! Just don't claim that everyone can do it and every kid that does is guaranteed a spot in Harvard's freshman class.

Well, that was a nice helping of crazy.


YOu got anything to say that addresses anything I actually said?

I did. All of that is possible with SOME students. To say that everyone can meet those requirements is disingenuous.

Vouchers should never be given to homeschoolers. as it takes away funds for other students.

Some people do not choose their work schedules. My wife and I were lucky and we did for child care reasons.

I am about as lefty as Attila the Hun, so I don't know where you get that BS.

Older kids may do well, but then again some might not.

I specifically said more, not all.


If the school is educating fewer kids, they need less money. There is no reason why, if we give the money to the parents that the parents cannot choose themselves as the educators.


IF THIS encourages stay at home mothers, imo, that would be a good thing.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Of course. Some home school parents are concerned and capable of giving their children a great education. The one on one teaching is much better than a large class. However, it's wrong to say all parents are educated enough to give their children a quality education, and pointing to the ones lucky enough to have parents do as the expected outcome of home schooling is just wrong. With required standards home schooling could be a great idea. Without them lots of children are missing the chance at a better, more productive life.

You don't have to have a great education yourself to give your child one. There are resources that make that possible.

Of course there are. That's where the ones with the high SATs come from. Many don't take advantage of those resources, and nothing in federal law says they have to. If there were requirements for parents to use those resources, or to determine if the child is being taught anything, then home schooling might be a viable option.

If the parents want their kids to go on to college, they have to take the SAT's just like everyone else. We don't see large numbers of home schooled children suffering because they didn't get s good education. Just the opposite.

How do you know?

Because of there was an epidemic of them, it would make the news just like failing government schools do.

Where is this epidemic of failing government schools? I keep hearing know-it-alls outside the field of education spouting this BS, but no one can ever point to any proof that "government schools" are failing.

BTW, most people seem to forget that we are a government of the the people, so in essence you are saying that our "people schools" are failing. Are there some schools who need major improvement? Perhaps. The real problem in our schools is the raw materials being provided by our society are failing in terms of quality.

There is a great line that describes manufacturing as well as education: You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit".

 

[rightwinger]

Homeschooling makes a lot of sense

A high school graduate is eminently more capable of educating children in math, science, literature, computers, foreign language than someone with a masters degree and extensive knowledge in a given subject

Education outcome is primarily driven by parental involvement.

Your sides celebration of single motherhood shows that you don't give a damn about education.

What does single motherhood have to do with the qualifications of a homeschool parent?
Love and motivation do not compensate for years of training and experience

 

[Soupnazi630]

Such things are usually not tolerated in most workplaces so yes they will be better prepared.

Hilarious!

And factually true

Let me guess! You are self-employed and never worked for anyone else!

Am I right?

You are way wrong actually I have never owned a business and have always worked for others.

Then you are either lying or extremely insulated from reality.

Neither merely stating obvious facts.
What people do in their private life is one thing but in nearly every place of business it is not permitted to do drugs or vandalize property or attack people the way we see kids behaving in many inner city schools.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

90% of parents can't home school anyways....They have to fucking work their asses off just to afford the roof and food! This shit can never work as this is reality! Maybe a few percent of parents have the education and the free time to do so but that isn't a good reason to destroy public education.

1. If we had a school voucher system, that could be used for home schooling, that would be easier for more people.

2. Different schedules can be set up so that one parent is always there. That's what my wife and I did to avoid paying for child care.

3. Economic and trade and immigration policies to serve the interests of the working poor and middle class could help with that., the policies that you lefties and establishment republicans are fighting against so hard.


4. Older kids, depending on maturity, could be self motivating with the proper resources.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

If you can homeschool, great! Do it! Just don't claim that everyone can do it and every kid that does is guaranteed a spot in Harvard's freshman class.

Well, that was a nice helping of crazy.


YOu got anything to say that addresses anything I actually said?

I did. All of that is possible with SOME students. To say that everyone can meet those requirements is disingenuous.

Vouchers should never be given to homeschoolers. as it takes away funds for other students.

Some people do not choose their work schedules. My wife and I were lucky and we did for child care reasons.

I am about as lefty as Attila the Hun, so I don't know where you get that BS.

Older kids may do well, but then again some might not.

I specifically said more, not all.


If the school is educating fewer kids, they need less money. There is no reason why, if we give the money to the parents that the parents cannot choose themselves as the educators.


IF THIS encourages stay at home mothers, imo, that would be a good thing.

If a school is educating fewer students, it needs the same amount of money or class sizes grow. It is a difficult concept for people to wrap themselves around.

Let us say that you have a small elementary school with 5 teachers in third grade, for 100 students, so each class has 20.

Vouchers come along and just 4 kids take the vouchers and run. Now you have 96 students, but funding has been cut so now that 5th teacher has to go.

Now you have 96 students with 4 teachers, so what is your class size? The class size jumped to 24.

Now, let us look at other costs. With just 4 students gone, did we decrease the number of buses? No. Could we decrease the electric bill? No. Could we lay off a cafeteria worker? No. Could we get rid of an administrator? No. Can we lay off a custodian? No. Are there any other significant savings in the schools operation? No.

The funds for those students are now gone, but the costs for the school itself remained almost the same.

Let us just say that one of those children was in special education classes. Can you lay off the teacher because you lost just one student? No. Where did the school save any money? It didn't.

BTW, my wife was stay at home mom, but because public school teachers get paid less than garbage men, she had to work nights and I worked days. I went my first 10 years of teaching without seeing my wife Monday through Friday. You do what you have to do.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Public school standards suck and home schooled kids generally do better.

it is public schools which should be elevated to a higher standard

So if public schools are bad, It's OK with you that home schoolers don't even have to be at least that good?

Yes it is.

Home schoolers overwhelmingly ARE in fact better educated than public schools which merely goes to show when people are left alone they will manage for themselves without state coercion which invariably fails

Are you basing that on all home schooled students, or just the ones who take college entrance exams? Many don't bother with those exams. You still didn't answer the question though.

I clearly did answer it.

YES IT IS.

As in yes it is ok and explained why.

NOT taking a college entrance exam does not indicate a lack of education so your singling out that example is irrelevant.

Not taking an entrance exam does indicate you can't use them in your example of how home schooled children compare to public schooled children. Your comparison is just taking the top home schoolers and comparing them to all public schooled children.

Sure you can as not all public school kids take those exams either

 

[Vandalshandle]

Yep, teaching bigotry and hatred of tens of millions of your follow Americans is such a wonderful things.

There's a reason 90% of kids go to public school! Parents don't have the fucking time when they have to work to make a rich man richer to just have a roof over their goddamn head.

Manufacturing jobs are the kind of jobs that enable One Income Families.

It may take me some time to process this post. I really don't have the slightest idea what you are trying to say. But, speaking from personal experience, my stepfather had a manufacturing job at Ford when I was growing up, and the only thing it enabled for me was the fact that if I wanted lunch money for school, I had to work everyday after school and all day Saturday all through high school. Of course, years later, after I had moved out, the union had managed to get him a stock option and profit sharing plan that enabled him to retire with a little dignity.

That's counter to the information I've had about manufacturing jobs, especially old school car plants.


There might be something unusual about your earlier situation, unusual expenses or something.

Nope. The facts were simple. My step father had a manufacturing job at Ford, because he quit school in the 7th grade to support his mother, brothers and sisters after his father died, and that was the best job he could get. He worked all of his life at a job he hated, and we were poor. There was absolutely nothing about his working for 50 years at Ford manufacturing that anyone could possibly find positive, other than the fact that it kept food on the table at home. As for us kids, we all started work by the age of 14, and never asked for a dime thereafter. We all went to public school, and we all prospered.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Hilarious!

And factually true

Let me guess! You are self-employed and never worked for anyone else!

Am I right?

You are way wrong actually I have never owned a business and have always worked for others.

Then you are either lying or extremely insulated from reality.

Neither merely stating obvious facts.
What people do in their private life is one thing but in nearly every place of business it is not permitted to do drugs or vandalize property or attack people the way we see kids behaving in many inner city schools.

You are confused. We were talking about a totally different subject. Please try to keep up.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I think many parents can make great homeschool teachers. Ones that are motivated, educated and innovative

I doubt that most American parents fit the bill

I think most American parents do fit the bill.

Apparently you are unwilling to even put that to the test by getting out of their way and letting them control the education of their kids.

There is your error.

You do know that 50% of all parents are below average.

Only according to a subjective standard which you pulled out of your ass.

 

[Soupnazi630]

It is fact not a lie which you are using hyperbole rather than evidence to argue against

Did you read my post? Evidently you were homeschooled and never learned to read for content.

One example would disprove your theory. I provided that.

I stated fact not theory and a truly educated person knows that anecdotes ( which is your one example ) prove nothing.

You stated no evidence of any sort to undermine or challenge the facts and my facts were not absolutes but generalizations supported by evidence as many throughout the thread have shown,

My anecdotes are acquired through years of personal experience. What do you have? Stats that you haven't provided and if you did could be easily disproven in a matter of seconds.

As I said other provided them and you refuse to even look at them and it is irrelevant where anecdotes come from they are evidence of nothing at all.

You are arguing from authority without any credible authority which is a logical fallacy.

You actually admitted you have seen the stats proving you wrong but discount them because........you do not like them.

You have offered nothing of any credibility to refute them

It is not that I do not like them. I know that the statistics are biased because I have an extensive background in mathematics and statistics. What do you have?

You do not like them because they concretely refute your position. Despite your empty claims of expertise you can offer or demonstrate no evidence to refute them.

Once again argument from authority is no an argument when you have no authority and you do not have any.