Honest and open debate on gun control

[EverCurious]

There are zero /new/ gun control laws that would not infringe upon the 2nd.

Frankly, it's going to shortly be an absolutely moot point - 3D printed firearms - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

--LOL

hillary claims that she is going to make it an issue

in her campaign

--LOL

indeed i certainly hope so

Laugh all you want, but the reality is that the /only/ way for the government to prevent 3D firearms is to completely restrict /all/ internet in the US (and abroad for those who travel) And if you look into software piracy you'll see just how difficult it is to stop - you wonder why MS Windows has authorization and shit, that's why.

You could repeal the 2nd and remove all guns from the country, but if you think gangs, drug dealers, and other criminals are not going to spend the money on a 3D printer to print their own arms in that case you're not facing reality. They expect the price of 3D printers to be in range of even the middle class within a couple years, if not sooner. EVEN if we don't pass any gun control arms, these fuckers are going to be doing it - we have laws on the books regulating 3d printing of firearms already (have to put a plate in it so it's metal detector visible) but the gov knows that's not going to cut it. I think it's part of why they passed that internet gun discussion shit not to long ago; the one that prevents you from "sharing" manufacturing techniques online. Not that it'll stop them, some fucker out there will virtually construct one and sell the plans on the pirate underground for billions.

The guy in Japan already did it, maybe we should collaborate with them as to how they are thinking to prevent it from happening again and see if there's a way we can fit that idea into our laws (unlikely considering Japan pretty much makes you give your SSN to use the internet heh)

The really big growth sector for 3d guns.....once again...criminals...and the government can't stop them now.....how will they stop 3d printing gun builders for criminal and terrorist organizations?

Truth. I almost bought one of these things to make gismos for computer mods and stuff; was only like $3k but I know the price is going to drop so I'm waiting. I'm really excited for the technology over-all. That said, a friend of mine bought one and has already designed and printed a bunch of stuff, she said it can do pretty much anything you could imagine [if you know how to do CAD.]

 

[2aguy]

There are zero /new/ gun control laws that would not infringe upon the 2nd.

Frankly, it's going to shortly be an absolutely moot point - 3D printed firearms - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

--LOL

hillary claims that she is going to make it an issue

in her campaign

--LOL

indeed i certainly hope so

Laugh all you want, but the reality is that the /only/ way for the government to prevent 3D firearms is to completely restrict /all/ internet in the US (and abroad for those who travel) And if you look into software piracy you'll see just how difficult it is to stop - you wonder why MS Windows has authorization and shit, that's why.

You could repeal the 2nd and remove all guns from the country, but if you think gangs, drug dealers, and other criminals are not going to spend the money on a 3D printer to print their own arms in that case you're not facing reality. They expect the price of 3D printers to be in range of even the middle class within a couple years, if not sooner. EVEN if we don't pass any gun control arms, these fuckers are going to be doing it - we have laws on the books regulating 3d printing of firearms already (have to put a plate in it so it's metal detector visible) but the gov knows that's not going to cut it. I think it's part of why they passed that internet gun discussion shit not to long ago; the one that prevents you from "sharing" manufacturing techniques online. Not that it'll stop them, some fucker out there will virtually construct one and sell the plans on the pirate underground for billions.

The guy in Japan already did it, maybe we should collaborate with them as to how they are thinking to prevent it from happening again and see if there's a way we can fit that idea into our laws (unlikely considering Japan pretty much makes you give your SSN to use the internet heh)

The really big growth sector for 3d guns.....once again...criminals...and the government can't stop them now.....how will they stop 3d printing gun builders for criminal and terrorist organizations?

Truth. I almost bought one of these things to make gismos for computer mods and stuff; was only like $3k but I know the price is going to drop so I'm waiting. I'm really excited for the technology over-all. That said, a friend of mine bought one and has already designed and printed a bunch of stuff, she said it can do pretty much anything you could imagine [if you know how to do CAD.]

And when criminals steal the printers...the price for them is $0......so yeah...the government is going to have a gun problem bigger than they have today....

 

[EverCurious]

There are zero /new/ gun control laws that would not infringe upon the 2nd.

Frankly, it's going to shortly be an absolutely moot point - 3D printed firearms - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

--LOL

hillary claims that she is going to make it an issue

in her campaign

--LOL

indeed i certainly hope so

Laugh all you want, but the reality is that the /only/ way for the government to prevent 3D firearms is to completely restrict /all/ internet in the US (and abroad for those who travel) And if you look into software piracy you'll see just how difficult it is to stop - you wonder why MS Windows has authorization and shit, that's why.

You could repeal the 2nd and remove all guns from the country, but if you think gangs, drug dealers, and other criminals are not going to spend the money on a 3D printer to print their own arms in that case you're not facing reality. They expect the price of 3D printers to be in range of even the middle class within a couple years, if not sooner. EVEN if we don't pass any gun control arms, these fuckers are going to be doing it - we have laws on the books regulating 3d printing of firearms already (have to put a plate in it so it's metal detector visible) but the gov knows that's not going to cut it. I think it's part of why they passed that internet gun discussion shit not to long ago; the one that prevents you from "sharing" manufacturing techniques online. Not that it'll stop them, some fucker out there will virtually construct one and sell the plans on the pirate underground for billions.

The guy in Japan already did it, maybe we should collaborate with them as to how they are thinking to prevent it from happening again and see if there's a way we can fit that idea into our laws (unlikely considering Japan pretty much makes you give your SSN to use the internet heh)

The really big growth sector for 3d guns.....once again...criminals...and the government can't stop them now.....how will they stop 3d printing gun builders for criminal and terrorist organizations?

Truth. I almost bought one of these things to make gismos for computer mods and stuff; was only like $3k but I know the price is going to drop so I'm waiting. I'm really excited for the technology over-all. That said, a friend of mine bought one and has already designed and printed a bunch of stuff, she said it can do pretty much anything you could imagine [if you know how to do CAD.]

And when criminals steal the printers...the price for them is $0......so yeah...the government is going to have a gun problem bigger than they have today....

mmm I hadn't considered that yet, but yea...

We should really focus on making the criminal system work. I was thinking about it earlier when the thread was discussing prison. Why do we have "sentence lengths"? Money. And wondering if we'd be better of to change the policy to when they are actually safe to put back into society rather than a set amount of time. Hell that might even be more "frightening" to criminals to know they'd be stuck in there until they proved they weren't a social liability. I think it'd also have an impact on prison gang shit.

 

[Ame®icano]

Someone steals your car, you're responsible for the people he runs over?
How does this prevent criminals from getting a gun?

Man, it doesn't make sense that only you're responsible. Your parents should take most of responsibility for having you, and doctors and nurses in hospital where you were born. They all could have prevent it.

 

[Ame®icano]

421 posts, no sound response.
Huh.

Funny, you said 421 posts, but your post is #419. Is something missing?

I guess some idiot was making fool of himself again...

 

[Ame®icano]

Let's begin with this absurdly ignorant claim of yours;
Simply because something is not explicitly stated does NOT make it unconstitutional. Only the ignorant home schooled gun fetishists could come up with such inane drivel.

Based on intensity of your insults, it seems you're losing it. Calm down kid.

He's only here to troll you -- he knows he argues from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

I don't think he knows that...

 

[Ame®icano]

The really big growth sector for 3d guns.....once again...criminals...and the government can't stop them now.....how will they stop 3d printing gun builders for criminal and terrorist organizations?

If is up to liberals, only police and military should have 3D printers.

 

[Ame®icano]

And when criminals steal the printers...the price for them is $0......so yeah...the government is going to have a gun problem bigger than they have today....

Then the person that 3D printer is stolen from will be held responsible. Right Freewill?

 

[PratchettFan]

Ok, you have no suggestions or goals. You just wanted to make a point having nothing to do with the thread. Consider it made.

I have plenty of suggestions. You could go an read my post where I made plenty of suggestions.

However for some reason no one chose to respond to my suggestions at all.

What I was doing was getting past first base in which some people seemed to have a problem with what was being spoken about. So that was clarification.

I take it you agree with me.

I saw no suggestions at all. It's possible I missed them. But I also didn't see you respond to my post, so let me reiterate what I expect to see in terms of any suggestions to limit my rights:

1) State the goal
2) State the suggestion
3) Show how the suggestion will actually achieve the goal

 

[Kosh]

I see the far left on this thread still pushing the far left religious agenda not based on any facts.

As I already pointed out, you can not have an honest and open debate with the far left drones, it is not possible.

How can one have any gun control with an open border..

 

[2aguy]

I see the far left on this thread still pushing the far left religious agenda not based on any facts.

As I already pointed out, you can not have an honest and open debate with the far left drones, it is not possible.

How can one have any gun control with an open border..

Easy...you pass laws that make guns illegal...then law abiding, peaceful, good people will obey that law....the criminals won't , but the anti-gun extremists don't care about criminals getting guns.....

 

[PratchettFan]

There was no response because it is irrelevant. That something can be limited does not mean it should be limited. You do not limit something just for the sake of limiting it. The argument that nuclear weapons can't be owned by citizens therefore magazines should be limited to 9 cartridges is absurd. So bring it out of the rafters and:

1 - State what you want to accomplish
2 - State your plan for accomplishing it
3 - Support that your plan will accomplish it

It's relevant. It's the facts of the thing.

If something can be limited it's relevant. If you have the right, it's not limitable.

Also, I didn't make the argument about nukes to magazines. You brought that up. Again, I was stating the facts. If you understand what something means, you will then make the right conclusions. If you don't understand, then you will make the wrong conclusions.

So, do I take it that you agree with what I have said, regardless of whether you want to be pedantic about whether you think it's relevant or not?

Forgot to respond to your last question. Of course it is limited. There is no such thing as an unlimited right. Now what?

And the first part of my question was that whether you agree or not. So, again, I take it you agree with everything I have said.

Now, you can go look at post 149 where I made suggestions on how to reduce gun violence

Honest and open debate on gun control Page 15 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

It's here in case you're too lazy to go look for yourself.

I read it. There was absolutely nothing in it about arms - which is the subject of the thread. You then went off on what the 2nd amendment meant and how it is not unlimited. Your argument had no connection to your suggestions.

But, if it will help. I have no problem with what you are suggesting. I just see no relevance to this thread.

 

[EverCurious]

I've been pondering this and I just do not think we can resolve our issues with simple gun control. The gun issues we have are (let me know if I missed any):

Suicide - which is best addressed with psychological assistance as best we can and/or we can let adults have a more dignified way out like assisted suicide.

Accidents - which are best addressed by gun education; if we do that in school (not loaded or anything) then those children will grow up and teach their kids and we'll be back to how it /used/ to be in the old days.

Crime - which is the real bugger of course. I think that's going to take a multi-pronged attack that combines pretty much everything; employment, welfare, parenting, and punishment. Probably would have to involve the police in some ways. Repealing the war on drugs. Reassessing sentencing, how repeat offenders are handled, etc.

I'm going to tag in a "sub-crime" category which I think is best called "terrorism" - this would be gangs, political extremists, etc. Which we'd have to address with similar things as crime, but also the psychological stuff.

 

[jon_berzerk]

--LOL

hillary claims that she is going to make it an issue

in her campaign

--LOL

indeed i certainly hope so

Laugh all you want, but the reality is that the /only/ way for the government to prevent 3D firearms is to completely restrict /all/ internet in the US (and abroad for those who travel) And if you look into software piracy you'll see just how difficult it is to stop - you wonder why MS Windows has authorization and shit, that's why.

You could repeal the 2nd and remove all guns from the country, but if you think gangs, drug dealers, and other criminals are not going to spend the money on a 3D printer to print their own arms in that case you're not facing reality. They expect the price of 3D printers to be in range of even the middle class within a couple years, if not sooner. EVEN if we don't pass any gun control arms, these fuckers are going to be doing it - we have laws on the books regulating 3d printing of firearms already (have to put a plate in it so it's metal detector visible) but the gov knows that's not going to cut it. I think it's part of why they passed that internet gun discussion shit not to long ago; the one that prevents you from "sharing" manufacturing techniques online. Not that it'll stop them, some fucker out there will virtually construct one and sell the plans on the pirate underground for billions.

The guy in Japan already did it, maybe we should collaborate with them as to how they are thinking to prevent it from happening again and see if there's a way we can fit that idea into our laws (unlikely considering Japan pretty much makes you give your SSN to use the internet heh)

The really big growth sector for 3d guns.....once again...criminals...and the government can't stop them now.....how will they stop 3d printing gun builders for criminal and terrorist organizations?

Truth. I almost bought one of these things to make gismos for computer mods and stuff; was only like $3k but I know the price is going to drop so I'm waiting. I'm really excited for the technology over-all. That said, a friend of mine bought one and has already designed and printed a bunch of stuff, she said it can do pretty much anything you could imagine [if you know how to do CAD.]

And when criminals steal the printers...the price for them is $0......so yeah...the government is going to have a gun problem bigger than they have today....

mmm I hadn't considered that yet, but yea...

We should really focus on making the criminal system work. I was thinking about it earlier when the thread was discussing prison. Why do we have "sentence lengths"? Money. And wondering if we'd be better of to change the policy to when they are actually safe to put back into society rather than a set amount of time. Hell that might even be more "frightening" to criminals to know they'd be stuck in there until they proved they weren't a social liability. I think it'd also have an impact on prison gang shit.

Why do we have "sentence lengths"? Money. And wondering if we'd be better of to change the policy to when they are actually safe to put back into society rather than a set amount of time.

do away with the parole system

do the whole length of time for the offense

if there is a repeat double the time sitting in the pen

 

[jon_berzerk]

There are zero /new/ gun control laws that would not infringe upon the 2nd.

Frankly, it's going to shortly be an absolutely moot point - 3D printed firearms - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

--LOL

hillary claims that she is going to make it an issue

in her campaign

--LOL

indeed i certainly hope so

Laugh all you want, but the reality is that the /only/ way for the government to prevent 3D firearms is to completely restrict /all/ internet in the US (and abroad for those who travel) And if you look into software piracy you'll see just how difficult it is to stop - you wonder why MS Windows has authorization and shit, that's why.

You could repeal the 2nd and remove all guns from the country, but if you think gangs, drug dealers, and other criminals are not going to spend the money on a 3D printer to print their own arms in that case you're not facing reality. They expect the price of 3D printers to be in range of even the middle class within a couple years, if not sooner. EVEN if we don't pass any gun control arms, these fuckers are going to be doing it - we have laws on the books regulating 3d printing of firearms already (have to put a plate in it so it's metal detector visible) but the gov knows that's not going to cut it. I think it's part of why they passed that internet gun discussion shit not to long ago; the one that prevents you from "sharing" manufacturing techniques online. Not that it'll stop them, some fucker out there will virtually construct one and sell the plans on the pirate underground for billions.

The guy in Japan already did it, maybe we should collaborate with them as to how they are thinking to prevent it from happening again and see if there's a way we can fit that idea into our laws (unlikely considering Japan pretty much makes you give your SSN to use the internet heh)

aint happening none of it

3d printers to homemade slam fires

they are here to stay

 

[2aguy]

I've been pondering this and I just do not think we can resolve our issues with simple gun control. The gun issues we have are (let me know if I missed any):

Suicide - which is best addressed with psychological assistance as best we can and/or we can let adults have a more dignified way out like assisted suicide.

Accidents - which are best addressed by gun education; if we do that in school (not loaded or anything) then those children will grow up and teach their kids and we'll be back to how it /used/ to be in the old days.

Crime - which is the real bugger of course. I think that's going to take a multi-pronged attack that combines pretty much everything; employment, welfare, parenting, and punishment. Probably would have to involve the police in some ways. Repealing the war on drugs. Reassessing sentencing, how repeat offenders are handled, etc.

I'm going to tag in a "sub-crime" category which I think is best called "terrorism" - this would be gangs, political extremists, etc. Which we'd have to address with similar things as crime, but also the psychological stuff.

Our gun murder rate and our gun accident rate are falling and at the lowest level yet....as more Americans buy, own and carry guns.....

 

[Ame®icano]

421 posts, no sound response.
Huh.

Funny, you said 421 posts, but your post is #419. Is something missing?
I guess some idiot was making fool of himself again...

Here we go, just as I thought...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ok, you have no suggestions or goals. You just wanted to make a point having nothing to do with the thread. Consider it made.

I have plenty of suggestions. You could go an read my post where I made plenty of suggestions.

However for some reason no one chose to respond to my suggestions at all.

What I was doing was getting past first base in which some people seemed to have a problem with what was being spoken about. So that was clarification.

I take it you agree with me.

I saw no suggestions at all. It's possible I missed them. But I also didn't see you respond to my post, so let me reiterate what I expect to see in terms of any suggestions to limit my rights:

1) State the goal
2) State the suggestion
3) Show how the suggestion will actually achieve the goal

Post 149. Jeez, I've posted that I wrote this three times now and still no replies to it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I read it. There was absolutely nothing in it about arms - which is the subject of the thread. You then went off on what the 2nd amendment meant and how it is not unlimited. Your argument had no connection to your suggestions.

But, if it will help. I have no problem with what you are suggesting. I just see no relevance to this thread.

Flipping hell.

So what you're suggesting is this. That you want people to come up with ways of taking guns away from people without taking guns away from people? So, you sit there thinking yourself superior because no one can do something that is impossible? Right? So this is all a waste of time?

Actually we're talking about gun control in another sense. I get that you don't get it. If you want to reduce gun crime (I'm not sure many people actually do) then there are ways to do it without even getting near guns.

It's gun control. It's controlling how people use guns. It's stopping "bad people" from getting guns by reducing the number of "bad people" because they have had a decent education.

You're thinking very simplistically. I'm thinking pro-actively. But then the right doesn't seem so interested with pro-active.

I'm sorry you just don't get what I'm saying. I'm sorry thousands of people will die because too many people don't get what I'm saying. You don't have any answers as to how to reduce gun violence. I do. You dismiss them, fine. You have to put up with thousands on people getting killed, maybe one of them will be you or a member of your family or a friend of yours.

The point about what the 2A means was in response to the argument of whether fully automatic weapons were protected by the 2A or not. They're not. So, you can ban fully automatic weapons without infringing on the rights protected in the 2A.

I made my point. You don't get it, I understand this. It was a separate issue.

 

[jon_berzerk]

It's stopping "bad people" from getting guns by reducing the number of "bad people" because they have had a decent education.

absurd

plenty of educated people have committed horrendous crimes