Honest and open debate on gun control

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

Yeah...you realize that would be stupid and pointless right...considering how easily French criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines in a country that doesn't allow law abiding French citizens to have any guns.....and you expect our criminals to not be able to get any magazine they want.....

And mass shooters.....the Church shooter.....changed magazines 5 times, the Santa Barbara shooter, used the 10 round legal magazines allowed in California...

So again...pointless and unnecessary and only affects the law abiding.....

Why do you guys never look beyond the first step of your "solution" to what happens after you implement it.......it would save a lot of typing on our part.....

Anders Breivik got his clips from sources here in the US. These were floating around the internet precisely because they are commonplace, and the seller didn't have to pay $200 a piece, per year, to keep them in his inventory. Will some slip through the cracks? Sure. But at least we should make these socially retarded would-be spree-shooters work for it. How many of these types will survive long enough in the ghettos to purchase what they want? Probably none of them would have.

Fully automatic rifles and magazines are easy to get in Europe.....the shooters in France, at Charlie hebdo and in Marseille had them as did the shooters in Belgium, Sweden and Denmark.....and the killing the Norway killer did....he killed so many people because no one else was armed...not even the initial police......magaziine capacity had nothing to do with it......

 

[2aguy]

Tax stamp:
Revenue stamp - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
License
License - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Non-synonymous.

It's not just a matter of paying for the stamp. And they don't hand out the stamp to everyone that pays for it.
It's just just a stamp. It's a license to own, you can't buy one without it.....

I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that these words have different definition than the ones you want to assign them.

I provided a list of the things done before you are allowed to get your "stamp." You can call it nothing but a stamp, but everyone but you apparently knows it's more than a mere stamp, it's a license for one gun.

No matter how many times you repeat this, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet while doing so, it will not change the fact that licenses and tax stamps are non-synonymous.

They are when the stamp is proof of license by the state for ownership.

You do know what license means right? License: a permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade.

Here's another explanation...:

Step 1: Purchase NFA Item from dealer with class 3 license
The first step in the process is to purchase your firearm since you will need the serial number for your paperwork. When you purchase through a dealer with a class 3 license you can process paperwork through them. Once you have purchased your firearm, the dealer will hold the weapon until you are approved. If your paperwork is not approved for whatever reason, you may or may not get all of your money back depending on your dealer. Some dealers will allow you to put the payment in escrow, but be sure to be clear on all contingencies before buying.

ATF Form 4
ATF Form 4 is the application for tax paid transfer and registration of a firearm. You need to complete this form in duplicate to start the process of obtaining your NFA tax stamp. Remember that any misleading or false statement made on your paperwork is considered a felony offense.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

Fingerprints & recent photos
Submitted with your ATF Form 4, you will need 2 sets of fingerprint cards and 2 recent photos of yourself in a passport style. Fingerprint cards can be made at your local Police Station or Sheriff's Department so contact them for more information. As for the passport photos, you can go to any place that takes photos for passports (like Walgreens).

Form 5330.20
When the transferee of a NFA firearm is an individual, form 5330.20, which is the certification of compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B), must be filed. This form certifies that you have US citizenship.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf

Signature by Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO)
You will need a CLEO signature on your NFA Form 4. The CLEO signature it to have an authority in your local area check for criminal background or activity and look for a legitimate reason to deny your request. The authority can be your Chief of police, county Sheriff, State or Federal Judge. Don’t be discouraged if one of them is not willing to sign, the worst that is going to happen is you get told no and you have to move on to the next qualified CLEO.

Tax Stamp
A $200 tax stamp needs to be bought for each weapon transaction submitted unless you are buying a weapon that falls under the “any other weapons” category, in this case the tax stamp will cost $5. A check or money order made payable to the Bureau of ATF can be sent with the application forms to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch.

The wait
After the paperwork is received an extensive background check is done and your fingerprints are ran by FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). If all is in order, approval is granted and your ATF form 4, fingerprints, and photos are filed with the BATFE and your duplicate Form 4 with canceled tax stamp is sent to you. The process can take around 90-180 days but recently has been taking 7-11 months.

.............


It's a helluva lot easier to get a driver's license than it is a license to own machine gun.

yes.....as soon as you implement a 200 dollar tax for voting, along with an extensive course requirement on U.S. government and Constitutional law, and as long as the voter owns a home........then you can think about taxing guns......

 

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

You don't realize that all of the mass shooters could kill the same number of people they killed with revolvers...right....? No magazines needed...therefore making magazine limits stupid and pointless.......

 

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

Yeah...you realize that would be stupid and pointless right...considering how easily French criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines in a country that doesn't allow law abiding French citizens to have any guns.....and you expect our criminals to not be able to get any magazine they want.....

And mass shooters.....the Church shooter.....changed magazines 5 times, the Santa Barbara shooter, used the 10 round legal magazines allowed in California...

So again...pointless and unnecessary and only affects the law abiding.....

Why do you guys never look beyond the first step of your "solution" to what happens after you implement it.......it would save a lot of typing on our part.....

Anders Breivik got his clips from sources here in the US. These were floating around the internet precisely because they are commonplace, and the seller didn't have to pay $200 a piece, per year, to keep them in his inventory. Will some slip through the cracks? Sure. But at least we should make these socially retarded would-be spree-shooters work for it. How many of these types will survive long enough in the ghettos to purchase what they want? Probably none of them would have.

And the Santa Barbara shooter used 10 round magazines which were the only legal ones in California.......and the Church shooter changed his magazines 5 times......

Magazine limits are really fucking stupid.......

 

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

Yeah...you realize that would be stupid and pointless right...considering how easily French criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines in a country that doesn't allow law abiding French citizens to have any guns.....and you expect our criminals to not be able to get any magazine they want.....

And mass shooters.....the Church shooter.....changed magazines 5 times, the Santa Barbara shooter, used the 10 round legal magazines allowed in California...

So again...pointless and unnecessary and only affects the law abiding.....

Why do you guys never look beyond the first step of your "solution" to what happens after you implement it.......it would save a lot of typing on our part.....

Anders Breivik got his clips from sources here in the US. These were floating around the internet precisely because they are commonplace, and the seller didn't have to pay $200 a piece, per year, to keep them in his inventory. Will some slip through the cracks? Sure. But at least we should make these socially retarded would-be spree-shooters work for it. How many of these types will survive long enough in the ghettos to purchase what they want? Probably none of them would have.

It is as easy as this.....

If someone commits a crime with a gun....we can already arrest them and put them in jail...no magazine limit needed to do that....

If a convicted felon is caught in the possession of a gun....you can already arrest them and put them in jail...no magazine limit needed.......

All of the past mass shootings could have been done with revolvers....pointing out that magazine limits on people who don't commit crimes is stupid and pointless....since criminals....even in Europe where they have extreme gun control.....get whatever magazines they want easily.....it is just law abiding Europeans who can't get them...

Makes a lot of sense right....? Criminals get magazines....law abiding people who commit no crimes are banned by law from having them.....

do you guys ever think past the initial feel good thoughts of your ideas?

 

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

Yeah...you realize that would be stupid and pointless right...considering how easily French criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines in a country that doesn't allow law abiding French citizens to have any guns.....and you expect our criminals to not be able to get any magazine they want.....

And mass shooters.....the Church shooter.....changed magazines 5 times, the Santa Barbara shooter, used the 10 round legal magazines allowed in California...

So again...pointless and unnecessary and only affects the law abiding.....

Why do you guys never look beyond the first step of your "solution" to what happens after you implement it.......it would save a lot of typing on our part.....

Anders Breivik got his clips from sources here in the US. These were floating around the internet precisely because they are commonplace, and the seller didn't have to pay $200 a piece, per year, to keep them in his inventory. Will some slip through the cracks? Sure. But at least we should make these socially retarded would-be spree-shooters work for it. How many of these types will survive long enough in the ghettos to purchase what they want? Probably none of them would have.

You do realize that the pistol alone would have done the same job....and he used a Ruger mini 14......and easily got the magazines for them despite the restrictions in Norway...right....and he already had a shotgun and bolt action rifle........

 

[2aguy]

Ruger mini 14 comes can use 5, 10 round magazines as well...in fact the mass shooters at Columbine did their killing with 10 round magazines.........in a defenseless victim pool, rounds in the magazine don't matter...since no one can shoot back....and in Norway...the "special" police...the ones with guns, couldn't get to him....allowing him to kill. The capacity of his magazines made no difference in the killing.

Actually, the Columbine killers didn't use the Ruger...they used a High Point Carbine....

10 round magazine.....

So.......your magazine limit would not have stopped this mass shooting, the mass shooting in Norway, the Church shooting, Newton..where he changed magazines repeatedly in the 4:30 minutes that he took to kill and then committed suicide when he heard the police sirens....

So again....your magazine limit is stupid and pointless....criminals get the magazines they want and mass shooters can kill just as easily with 10 round magazines.......

think people......

 

[Brain357]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

You don't realize that all of the mass shooters could kill the same number of people they killed with revolvers...right....? No magazines needed...therefore making magazine limits stupid and pointless.......

You certainly have no proof of that claim. Many shooters have been stopped at reload.

 

[Brain357]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

Yeah...you realize that would be stupid and pointless right...considering how easily French criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines in a country that doesn't allow law abiding French citizens to have any guns.....and you expect our criminals to not be able to get any magazine they want.....

And mass shooters.....the Church shooter.....changed magazines 5 times, the Santa Barbara shooter, used the 10 round legal magazines allowed in California...

So again...pointless and unnecessary and only affects the law abiding.....

Why do you guys never look beyond the first step of your "solution" to what happens after you implement it.......it would save a lot of typing on our part.....

Anders Breivik got his clips from sources here in the US. These were floating around the internet precisely because they are commonplace, and the seller didn't have to pay $200 a piece, per year, to keep them in his inventory. Will some slip through the cracks? Sure. But at least we should make these socially retarded would-be spree-shooters work for it. How many of these types will survive long enough in the ghettos to purchase what they want? Probably none of them would have.

And the Santa Barbara shooter used 10 round magazines which were the only legal ones in California.......and the Church shooter changed his magazines 5 times......

Magazine limits are really fucking stupid.......

Saving lives is stupid? Giffords shooter was stopped at reload. A smaller magazine would have ment fewer people killed/injured. People don't use large magazines for defense, only mass shooters and gang bangers need them.

 

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

You don't realize that all of the mass shooters could kill the same number of people they killed with revolvers...right....? No magazines needed...therefore making magazine limits stupid and pointless.......

You certainly have no proof of that claim. Many shooters have been stopped at reload.

And you know that each case you have relied on has been shown to be wrong......pure dumb luck is not a way to stop someone at reload....Gabby Giffords, dumb luck, the Long Island shooter, actually ran out of bullets before they attempted to get him and he reloaded, and Newton...in 5 minutes he changed magazinse several times even though he had 30 round magazines....he did combat reloads....even the church shooter changed magazines 5 times and no one stopped him....

moron...

 

[2aguy]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

Yeah...you realize that would be stupid and pointless right...considering how easily French criminals get fully automatic rifles and 30 round magazines in a country that doesn't allow law abiding French citizens to have any guns.....and you expect our criminals to not be able to get any magazine they want.....

And mass shooters.....the Church shooter.....changed magazines 5 times, the Santa Barbara shooter, used the 10 round legal magazines allowed in California...

So again...pointless and unnecessary and only affects the law abiding.....

Why do you guys never look beyond the first step of your "solution" to what happens after you implement it.......it would save a lot of typing on our part.....

Anders Breivik got his clips from sources here in the US. These were floating around the internet precisely because they are commonplace, and the seller didn't have to pay $200 a piece, per year, to keep them in his inventory. Will some slip through the cracks? Sure. But at least we should make these socially retarded would-be spree-shooters work for it. How many of these types will survive long enough in the ghettos to purchase what they want? Probably none of them would have.

And the Santa Barbara shooter used 10 round magazines which were the only legal ones in California.......and the Church shooter changed his magazines 5 times......

Magazine limits are really fucking stupid.......

Saving lives is stupid? Giffords shooter was stopped at reload. A smaller magazine would have ment fewer people killed/injured. People don't use large magazines for defense, only mass shooters and gang bangers need them.

and again...the Giffords shooter shot a guy, that guy was grazed in the head and assumed dead...the shooter walked up to the guy he thought was dead and became close enough to be tackled, the woman who "wrestled the magazine" from him.....had gotten on the ground hoping he would ignore her...when he fell he fell right next to her and she reached out to get the magazine......pure dumb luck...and that is your best example.....

 

[Brain357]

There is a constitutional protection for law abiding and competent adults to own weapons suitable to defend themselves from likely threats to their person and property, but there may be various limits to that right (DC v. Heller).

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

After all, the classical definition of tyranny is having the lives of the many being at the mercy of a madman.

You don't realize that all of the mass shooters could kill the same number of people they killed with revolvers...right....? No magazines needed...therefore making magazine limits stupid and pointless.......

You certainly have no proof of that claim. Many shooters have been stopped at reload.

And you know that each case you have relied on has been shown to be wrong......pure dumb luck is not a way to stop someone at reload....Gabby Giffords, dumb luck, the Long Island shooter, actually ran out of bullets before they attempted to get him and he reloaded, and Newton...in 5 minutes he changed magazinse several times even though he had 30 round magazines....he did combat reloads....even the church shooter changed magazines 5 times and no one stopped him....

moron...

Dumb luck? Sometimes that's what it takes to save lives. Sorry but a smaller magazine would have clearly saved lives/injuries in the Giffords shooting. How many people are hit by strays because gang bangers are emptying hi cap mags in drive buys and other shootings? People don't need hi cap magazines for defense, only mass shooters and gang bangers need them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The most productive limitation would be a banning on the new manufacture of clips beyond 15 rounds, along with the classification of existing clips of greater than 15 rounds as a destructive devise under FOPA, subject to the same tax stamp requirements as machine guns.

How is this "productive"?
How does this prevent criminals from getting guns?
How does this not violate the constitution?

 

[M14 Shooter]

594 posts, no sound responses.

 

[RKMBrown]

It's not just a matter of paying for the stamp. And they don't hand out the stamp to everyone that pays for it.
It's just just a stamp. It's a license to own, you can't buy one without it.....

I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that these words have different definition than the ones you want to assign them.

I provided a list of the things done before you are allowed to get your "stamp." You can call it nothing but a stamp, but everyone but you apparently knows it's more than a mere stamp, it's a license for one gun.

No matter how many times you repeat this, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet while doing so, it will not change the fact that licenses and tax stamps are non-synonymous.

They are when the stamp is proof of license by the state for ownership.

You do know what license means right? License: a permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade.

Here's another explanation...:

Step 1: Purchase NFA Item from dealer with class 3 license
The first step in the process is to purchase your firearm since you will need the serial number for your paperwork. When you purchase through a dealer with a class 3 license you can process paperwork through them. Once you have purchased your firearm, the dealer will hold the weapon until you are approved. If your paperwork is not approved for whatever reason, you may or may not get all of your money back depending on your dealer. Some dealers will allow you to put the payment in escrow, but be sure to be clear on all contingencies before buying.

ATF Form 4
ATF Form 4 is the application for tax paid transfer and registration of a firearm. You need to complete this form in duplicate to start the process of obtaining your NFA tax stamp. Remember that any misleading or false statement made on your paperwork is considered a felony offense.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

Fingerprints & recent photos
Submitted with your ATF Form 4, you will need 2 sets of fingerprint cards and 2 recent photos of yourself in a passport style. Fingerprint cards can be made at your local Police Station or Sheriff's Department so contact them for more information. As for the passport photos, you can go to any place that takes photos for passports (like Walgreens).

Form 5330.20
When the transferee of a NFA firearm is an individual, form 5330.20, which is the certification of compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B), must be filed. This form certifies that you have US citizenship.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf

Signature by Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO)
You will need a CLEO signature on your NFA Form 4. The CLEO signature it to have an authority in your local area check for criminal background or activity and look for a legitimate reason to deny your request. The authority can be your Chief of police, county Sheriff, State or Federal Judge. Don’t be discouraged if one of them is not willing to sign, the worst that is going to happen is you get told no and you have to move on to the next qualified CLEO.

Tax Stamp
A $200 tax stamp needs to be bought for each weapon transaction submitted unless you are buying a weapon that falls under the “any other weapons” category, in this case the tax stamp will cost $5. A check or money order made payable to the Bureau of ATF can be sent with the application forms to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch.

The wait
After the paperwork is received an extensive background check is done and your fingerprints are ran by FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). If all is in order, approval is granted and your ATF form 4, fingerprints, and photos are filed with the BATFE and your duplicate Form 4 with canceled tax stamp is sent to you. The process can take around 90-180 days but recently has been taking 7-11 months.

.............


It's a helluva lot easier to get a driver's license than it is a license to own machine gun.

yes.....as soon as you implement a 200 dollar tax for voting, along with an extensive course requirement on U.S. government and Constitutional law, and as long as the voter owns a home........then you can think about taxing guns......

Don't be a moron. We already have a 200 dollar tax for one type of gun... why not for other types?

 

[RKMBrown]

It's not just a matter of paying for the stamp. And they don't hand out the stamp to everyone that pays for it.
It's just just a stamp. It's a license to own, you can't buy one without it.....

I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that these words have different definition than the ones you want to assign them.

I provided a list of the things done before you are allowed to get your "stamp." You can call it nothing but a stamp, but everyone but you apparently knows it's more than a mere stamp, it's a license for one gun.

No matter how many times you repeat this, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet while doing so, it will not change the fact that licenses and tax stamps are non-synonymous.

They are when the stamp is proof of license by the state for ownership.

The cancelled tax stamp is proof that the tax was paid at the end of the process. Its still not a license.
NFA Class III firearm licenses do not exist.

Don't be a moron. Hint: what "process" are you talking about? Hint: the licensing process, of course. The tax stamp is proof that you have gone through the licensing process for access to the gun in question.

 

[2aguy]

I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that these words have different definition than the ones you want to assign them.

I provided a list of the things done before you are allowed to get your "stamp." You can call it nothing but a stamp, but everyone but you apparently knows it's more than a mere stamp, it's a license for one gun.

No matter how many times you repeat this, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet while doing so, it will not change the fact that licenses and tax stamps are non-synonymous.

They are when the stamp is proof of license by the state for ownership.

You do know what license means right? License: a permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade.

Here's another explanation...:

Step 1: Purchase NFA Item from dealer with class 3 license
The first step in the process is to purchase your firearm since you will need the serial number for your paperwork. When you purchase through a dealer with a class 3 license you can process paperwork through them. Once you have purchased your firearm, the dealer will hold the weapon until you are approved. If your paperwork is not approved for whatever reason, you may or may not get all of your money back depending on your dealer. Some dealers will allow you to put the payment in escrow, but be sure to be clear on all contingencies before buying.

ATF Form 4
ATF Form 4 is the application for tax paid transfer and registration of a firearm. You need to complete this form in duplicate to start the process of obtaining your NFA tax stamp. Remember that any misleading or false statement made on your paperwork is considered a felony offense.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

Fingerprints & recent photos
Submitted with your ATF Form 4, you will need 2 sets of fingerprint cards and 2 recent photos of yourself in a passport style. Fingerprint cards can be made at your local Police Station or Sheriff's Department so contact them for more information. As for the passport photos, you can go to any place that takes photos for passports (like Walgreens).

Form 5330.20
When the transferee of a NFA firearm is an individual, form 5330.20, which is the certification of compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B), must be filed. This form certifies that you have US citizenship.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf

Signature by Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO)
You will need a CLEO signature on your NFA Form 4. The CLEO signature it to have an authority in your local area check for criminal background or activity and look for a legitimate reason to deny your request. The authority can be your Chief of police, county Sheriff, State or Federal Judge. Don’t be discouraged if one of them is not willing to sign, the worst that is going to happen is you get told no and you have to move on to the next qualified CLEO.

Tax Stamp
A $200 tax stamp needs to be bought for each weapon transaction submitted unless you are buying a weapon that falls under the “any other weapons” category, in this case the tax stamp will cost $5. A check or money order made payable to the Bureau of ATF can be sent with the application forms to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch.

The wait
After the paperwork is received an extensive background check is done and your fingerprints are ran by FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). If all is in order, approval is granted and your ATF form 4, fingerprints, and photos are filed with the BATFE and your duplicate Form 4 with canceled tax stamp is sent to you. The process can take around 90-180 days but recently has been taking 7-11 months.

.............


It's a helluva lot easier to get a driver's license than it is a license to own machine gun.

yes.....as soon as you implement a 200 dollar tax for voting, along with an extensive course requirement on U.S. government and Constitutional law, and as long as the voter owns a home........then you can think about taxing guns......

Don't be a moron. We already have a 200 dollar tax for one type of gun... why not for other types?

Don't be an asshole...we shouldn't have the tax on those guns either....any tax or fee placed on guns makes it harder for the poorest Americans to buy them....and since the poorest of us usually live in democrat controlled hell holes, they are the ones who more often than not have less access to police and must rely more on themselves on a day to day basis for their own protection.

There is absolutely no need to put a tax on guns....a tool protected by the 2nd Amendment.....

And asshole.....why not put a 200 dollar tax on a license to vote, with a mandatory test on our government and Constitution with a property requirement....stupid voters do far more long term harm to all of us than guns do.....

 

[2aguy]

I'm sorry that you don't like the fact that these words have different definition than the ones you want to assign them.

I provided a list of the things done before you are allowed to get your "stamp." You can call it nothing but a stamp, but everyone but you apparently knows it's more than a mere stamp, it's a license for one gun.

No matter how many times you repeat this, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet while doing so, it will not change the fact that licenses and tax stamps are non-synonymous.

They are when the stamp is proof of license by the state for ownership.

The cancelled tax stamp is proof that the tax was paid at the end of the process. Its still not a license.
NFA Class III firearm licenses do not exist.

Don't be a moron. Hint: what "process" are you talking about? Hint: the licensing process, of course. The tax stamp is proof that you have gone through the licensing process for access to the gun in question.

What exactly is a licensing process supposed to accomplish.....will criminals go through this licensing process? And will it stop mass shooters...no...they will go through the process, get their license and go murder people...just like the Santa Barbara killer did when he passed background checks 3 times to get his 3 guns....so licensing will be just as stupid.....

There is no reason to license gun owners other than to keep track of law abiding gun owners.....the very people who won't use guns to commit crimes....

 

[RKMBrown]

I provided a list of the things done before you are allowed to get your "stamp." You can call it nothing but a stamp, but everyone but you apparently knows it's more than a mere stamp, it's a license for one gun.

No matter how many times you repeat this, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet while doing so, it will not change the fact that licenses and tax stamps are non-synonymous.

They are when the stamp is proof of license by the state for ownership.

You do know what license means right? License: a permit from an authority to own or use something, do a particular thing, or carry on a trade.

Here's another explanation...:

Step 1: Purchase NFA Item from dealer with class 3 license
The first step in the process is to purchase your firearm since you will need the serial number for your paperwork. When you purchase through a dealer with a class 3 license you can process paperwork through them. Once you have purchased your firearm, the dealer will hold the weapon until you are approved. If your paperwork is not approved for whatever reason, you may or may not get all of your money back depending on your dealer. Some dealers will allow you to put the payment in escrow, but be sure to be clear on all contingencies before buying.

ATF Form 4
ATF Form 4 is the application for tax paid transfer and registration of a firearm. You need to complete this form in duplicate to start the process of obtaining your NFA tax stamp. Remember that any misleading or false statement made on your paperwork is considered a felony offense.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

Fingerprints & recent photos
Submitted with your ATF Form 4, you will need 2 sets of fingerprint cards and 2 recent photos of yourself in a passport style. Fingerprint cards can be made at your local Police Station or Sheriff's Department so contact them for more information. As for the passport photos, you can go to any place that takes photos for passports (like Walgreens).

Form 5330.20
When the transferee of a NFA firearm is an individual, form 5330.20, which is the certification of compliance with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B), must be filed. This form certifies that you have US citizenship.

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5330-20.pdf

Signature by Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO)
You will need a CLEO signature on your NFA Form 4. The CLEO signature it to have an authority in your local area check for criminal background or activity and look for a legitimate reason to deny your request. The authority can be your Chief of police, county Sheriff, State or Federal Judge. Don’t be discouraged if one of them is not willing to sign, the worst that is going to happen is you get told no and you have to move on to the next qualified CLEO.

Tax Stamp
A $200 tax stamp needs to be bought for each weapon transaction submitted unless you are buying a weapon that falls under the “any other weapons” category, in this case the tax stamp will cost $5. A check or money order made payable to the Bureau of ATF can be sent with the application forms to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch.

The wait
After the paperwork is received an extensive background check is done and your fingerprints are ran by FBI and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). If all is in order, approval is granted and your ATF form 4, fingerprints, and photos are filed with the BATFE and your duplicate Form 4 with canceled tax stamp is sent to you. The process can take around 90-180 days but recently has been taking 7-11 months.

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It's a helluva lot easier to get a driver's license than it is a license to own machine gun.

yes.....as soon as you implement a 200 dollar tax for voting, along with an extensive course requirement on U.S. government and Constitutional law, and as long as the voter owns a home........then you can think about taxing guns......

Don't be a moron. We already have a 200 dollar tax for one type of gun... why not for other types?

Don't be an asshole...we shouldn't have the tax on those guns either....any tax or fee placed on guns makes it harder for the poorest Americans to buy them....and since the poorest of us usually live in democrat controlled hell holes, they are the ones who more often than not have less access to police and must rely more on themselves on a day to day basis for their own protection.

There is absolutely no need to put a tax on guns....a tool protected by the 2nd Amendment.....

And asshole.....why not put a 200 dollar tax on a license to vote, with a mandatory test on our government and Constitution with a property requirement....stupid voters do far more long term harm to all of us than guns do.....

You misunderstand. m14 was begging continuously for someone to make an argument for how to do this piece of shit thing. I got tired of waiting and watching him boast about no one being able to provide a way and / or an argument. So I did it.

I am 100% with you that this should not be done. My point was merely to outline how it could.

 

[RKMBrown]

I provided a list of the things done before you are allowed to get your "stamp." You can call it nothing but a stamp, but everyone but you apparently knows it's more than a mere stamp, it's a license for one gun.

No matter how many times you repeat this, and no matter how hard you stomp your feet while doing so, it will not change the fact that licenses and tax stamps are non-synonymous.

They are when the stamp is proof of license by the state for ownership.

The cancelled tax stamp is proof that the tax was paid at the end of the process. Its still not a license.
NFA Class III firearm licenses do not exist.

Don't be a moron. Hint: what "process" are you talking about? Hint: the licensing process, of course. The tax stamp is proof that you have gone through the licensing process for access to the gun in question.

What exactly is a licensing process supposed to accomplish.....will criminals go through this licensing process? And will it stop mass shooters...no...they will go through the process, get their license and go murder people...just like the Santa Barbara killer did when he passed background checks 3 times to get his 3 guns....so licensing will be just as stupid.....

There is no reason to license gun owners other than to keep track of law abiding gun owners.....the very people who won't use guns to commit crimes....

It's supposed to reduce the number of people that get access to one of the guns in a legal way. No criminals will not go through this licensing process they will get them through federal government programs designed to use tax dollars to distribute guns to criminals. They will also get them on the black market. The only way it actually reduces one aspect crime is by reducing the amount of first crimes using these weapons by the people who are to lazy or poor to go through the process.